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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 05-14-2010 1:18 PM by Clakke. 116 replies.
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  • 02-18-2010 2:23 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    You can actually adjust the picture temperature, if you really want to through the service menu. The service manual is on site - I would echo the sentiment in the manual though - write down the original values first and make sure you have the correct equipment. I am very happy with the picture as it is.

    I am not sure the review site is that well respected - seems in its infancy at present and a bit too positive to strike me as completely bias free - it is a Danish site!! Big Smile

  • 02-18-2010 3:23 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    TripEnglish:

    Ilikehifi:

    Is 'E 'good or bad ??

    I dealt with someone on here recently.. wonder if they would agree hmm..

    Like I said, it doesn't sound like you're very old so I think folks here have given you a little leeway, but your overall tone limits the "value" of your potential contributions. And while the membership may be expensive for you, it's a sign of good faith that your intention is to contribute and not just to stir the pot and move on. Maybe a sliver membership is within your budget.

    Your conversion to paid up Gold member is a recent one, isn't it Trip? That makes your sudden burst of prosthelytizing towards Ilikehifi a bit out of order IMO.

    President, Beomaster 8000 Appreciation Society

  • 02-18-2010 4:12 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    Peter :
    You can actually adjust the picture temperature, if you really want to through the service menu.

    Really??? Will a robotic arm not swing down and change it back ?? Big Smile

    My apologies then, I was going off that review - from what I was assured was a reputable site.

    There's some talk of calibration not being appropriate on the following link - but I can't quite make sense of it due to the translation.

    http://preview.tinyurl.com/ybltdm4

  • 02-18-2010 4:45 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    TripEnglish:

    Ilikehifi:

    beomud:
    Well for luxury goods it never is rational. Although you pay 5x more for perhaps just 2x the quality, the utility (personal satisfaction/happiness) that it brings sometimes cannot be measured.

    So you are unable to ascertain how much pleasure you get from stuff?

    That's weird!

    I think you can usually measure that - mainly by asking yourself honestly after the novelty factor has worn off. This seems to be confirmed by peoples ability to articulate their conclusions about stuff they own.

     

    By the way.. by which criteria do you regard the quality of a BV10 2x the of the latest greatest Pioneer? It's certainly not 2x the picture quality. Big Smile

    It's probably time someone corrected you on this Pioneer thing. They stopped making TVs last year. So the latest and greatest isn't that late or great. Also: It sounds from your posts like you're pretty young.

    A quick personal story to illustrate what many are trying to communicate to you: I currently watch morning and evening news (and the occasional movie) on a BeoVision MX that's been in my family for almost 25 years. It's survived so many advances in technology, including the HD and flat panel revolutions, that it couldn't be considered anywhere close to technologically relevant. 

    So here's where your model for decision making falls apart:

    -I'm assuming that your intention in examining "the facts" is to wind up with a purchase that has lasting value in the long run.

    -I think we can also agree that technology moves at a steady pace and that the industry releases a new version at least once a year at CES with incremental updates on an ongoing basis.

    -The "facts" that you'd have a buyer examine are all based on the capabilities available among various brands' portfolios of technology. Things like color gamut, refresh rate, pixel count, backlighting technology, physical dimension, longevity, etc.

    -However, as these things change significantly from year to year, it stands to reason that if a product is to last 10 years (15 less than my oldest television), it will spend the majority of its existence as a somewhat obsolete product. This goes for any brand, any technology, and any price. Time will leave it behind.

    -So why, I would ask you, would I make my decision primarily (or entirely) on criteria that will only remain relevant for a small percentage of the life of the product? Will I care whether I bought the 240hz or the 600hz when there are 10,000hz TVs on the market?

    Of course not. 

    -I think what many, including myself, are trying to articulate is that making a decision that satisfies you on an emotional level will yield a more satisfying result in the long run than a purely "fact based" decision. My BeoVision MX & Avant haven't been technologically current for many many years, but what's kept them in my home and in heavy use is the emotional benefit I get when using them. Just like my favorite shoes & watch and many other things I own, they fill my days with tiny pleasures that would simply be unavailable to me had I made "consumer reports" type purchase decisions.

    -And that's how I look at these other televisions. However exemplary they may be here today at this very moment, they will be bested. As soon as that happens, I have to look at what's left. And it's usually a black plastic rectangle. It's appeal drys up and blows away the very second it's obsolete.

    So if your method of decision making works for you and you don't require, or don't desire, an emotional content to the items you interact with every day, that's just fine. But passion is an important component to any decision and I'd hate to think that I'd ever spend a penny on something I didn't feel passionately about. 

     

    Absolutely Brilliant!  The clearest thinking I've seen here!

     

    barry

  • 02-18-2010 5:02 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    I'm with Trip on this one, very good and clear answer.

    B&O is about much more than just tech specs.

  • 02-18-2010 5:23 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    Me too!

    BTW I can also understand that people who doesn't own B&O,can't realize this point of view.Own a B&O is like a jump of faith Wink

  • 02-18-2010 6:42 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    Puncher:

    TripEnglish:

    Ilikehifi:

    Is 'E 'good or bad ??

     

    I dealt with someone on here recently.. wonder if they would agree hmm..

    Like I said, it doesn't sound like you're very old so I think folks here have given you a little leeway, but your overall tone limits the "value" of your potential contributions. And while the membership may be expensive for you, it's a sign of good faith that your intention is to contribute and not just to stir the pot and move on. Maybe a sliver membership is within your budget.

     

    I'm sorry but ........... No!

    The site has never harangued anyone for paid membership, nor is paid membership a pre-requisite before expressing an opinion.

    As far as I can see the member has done nothing other than suggest a rational decision making process, if you disagree then fine - buy what you like, as you like it, it does not make him "wrong".

    As regards "tone" - I would suggest that expressed above is far more damaging than anything expressed by "Ilikehifi".

     

    Puncher, you're right...

    Sorry 'Ilikehifi', I was just having a jeer at you at your expense because you described my viewpoints as superstitious ramblings and flowery language. All a bit of fun on my behalf....

    No harm done then??

    Going back to the original posting, I hope you enjoy sampling the TV and that you buy it because you love it or not buy because you don't love it. Better than not buying it because it doesn't have a particular thing... If you buy it because you love it, you'll love everytime you turn it on.

    I asked a friend why she always buys a convertible and never just a normal car... her response: "because everytime I get in the car, whether it be a long drive or just a quick trip to the shops.. It always feels special". Buy the TV that always makes you feel special.

    My B&O: 2009 Catalogue and Pricelist

  • 02-18-2010 7:12 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    My advice would be to listen and observe, and to not get too hung-up on technical specifications. When I bought my first B&O system in the early 70's I got a lot of stick from colleagues who claimed that I would have been better to buy one of the then latest Japanese systems, some of which claimed lower distortion etc in their specifications. Taking the system performance as a whole (speakers, amp, tuner etc) I was more than happy with the B&O system. 35+ years later it is still giving me great listening pleasure, and its looks are still as good as anything that has ever been produced by any company. It has paid for itself over and over.

    Graham

    I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure. [W C Fields]

  • 02-18-2010 7:52 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    Stan:
    I also believe the pace of change in TV technology will slow down and/or TV manufacturors will go out of business. 

    Stan that's a very good point. I also agree that when it comes to a point where TVs are not progressing as fast as it has been in the last few years, then it might be the ideal time to pick up a B&O TV. At the moment, each year there are newer generation panels that are bigger, brighter, blacker, and faster. Once that cycle slows down, then your TV investment will last for a longer period of time. That might be the case in a few years time when thin LED technology matures and reaches an ideal size.

    Ilikehifi:

    So you are unable to ascertain how much pleasure you get from stuff?

    Ilikehifi, what I mean is the amount of pleasure differs between people for a particular product. Say some ladies are very happy to spend $10k on a hand-made luxury handbag when us guys think they're just a few pieces of leather stitched together. For them, the enjoyment and the pride they get out of carrying such a bag onto the streets is more than worth that money. Same for guys that buy a Porsche. One can ascertain how much pleasure you get but it's hard to put a dollar amount to it (well unless you are an Economist and run utility models Stick out tongue). Sometimes the novelty factor doesn't wear off as can be seen with some of the fellow Beoworlders with their vintage B&O gear :) My point to the OP was that it's a hard question to ask other people if a certain purchase is worth it, especially for a luxury item.

    Ilikehifi:
    By the way.. by which criteria do you regard the quality of a BV10 2x the of the latest greatest Pioneer? It's certainly not 2x the picture quality.

    Obviously that was just an example Big Smile Some of us might even think it's 10x the quality. Quality is very subjective, and also picture quality is not the only quality, there's also build quality, interactive quality (user friendliness) etc etc. You only need to look at the LCD vs Plasma debate to see the wide range of differing opinions on picture quality. But one thing we'll all agree is that B&O have unbeatable build quality. Their products are so rock solid it looks like you need a tank to take it down Wink

  • 02-19-2010 6:06 AM In reply to

    • joff135
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 04-17-2007
    • North Somerset, UK
    • Posts 62
    • Bronze Member

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    I have a BV7-32 with Lab 3 front, Lab 4 rear and a Lab 2 sub...and even my wife loves it! Worth the money...yes, i think so...great picture, fabulous sound and lots of style too.

    However...about 4 years ago i bought a pair of Beocom 6000 phones...and imho that was a waste of money...£550 iirc for the pair and i didn't realise that they didn't have a 'handsfree' function...and because they don't have an answermachine built into the main base we have to use 1571 to retrieve our phone messages which is a PITA. I did look into getting the B & O wall mounted answermachine which they used to make...but i was told not to bother by my local B & O dealer as it was apparently a bad seller due to being too complicated to use (i never tried it and so i don't know if it is that complicated?).

  • 02-20-2010 11:39 AM In reply to

    • RWST
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 01-12-2010
    • Amsterdam, NL
    • Posts 50
    • Bronze Member

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    roconn:

    I am seriously considering my first B&O purchase... a Beovision 10 television!

    It has the looks I want and the picture quality/sound 'seem' excellent, but since I am not a multi-millionairre and still in the realms of 'normal' earning capacity, the £7k price tag does seem very steep - especially compared to my previous television purchases (my last being a £2k Sony around 3/4 years ago).

    I assume everyone on this site is going to be somewhat biased, but I just need convincing that its worth spending £7k on a 40" TV - and I don't need the usual sales crap that I got in the B&O shop I visited at the weekend...

    - Is B&O the best sound/picture quality you can buy? I read (on this site I think) that the screen for the Beovision 10 is made by Samsung, I wouldn't usually buy Samsung over brands like Sony or Pioneer, why would I buy a Samsung screen with a B&O tag on the top??

    - Is the sound quality that great... to be honest, I am not a huge sound/vision man (I don't own a blueray player at the moment or subscride to HD TV, although I will), but am I buying an inferior product with an expensive brand name?

    - Is B&O designed for people with more money than sense or is it truely a superior brand with a great design?

     

    All I can say, be careful, once you spend your money on B&O, you want more. It's addictive, I can tell.

    Good luck.

  • 02-21-2010 6:11 AM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    Overpriced.No doubt about it.In the middle of a bad financial downturn the prices went up 12%Whistle

    It is in the main a decent GOOD LOOKING product that suffers from a host of issues due to software bugs.

     

    The Masterlink facilty is a plus if you have other B+O kit but then, we have powefull networking now with other manufacturers offering bigger bang for the buck and more compatibilty with other manufacturers equipment.

    A lot of the cost has to be due to the fact they use a lot of metal and glass where other makers use plastic.Expensive metal and glass then!

     

    Not until the arrival of the BV7-40 MK111 could they say their TV`s were supperior to their closer rivals."You know who the main one is"Smile

     

    Recent clangers have to be the DVD2.HDR2. No digital tuner.DVD with the most horrible user interface ever.Good grief.Who thought than one up? PHILIPS INTERFACE GONE BAD! Beo5 multiple problems and several software design issues.Beosound 5. A 4k Beta productUnsure with huge problems.It looks like it is settling now as the software dept` gets it near what it should have been at release.

    All of these products can never justify the price when some of the most basic like digital tuners and ripping CD`s on the main product and not your PC are missing.

    BV8-40  Master link won`t work with older B+O kit.Expensive TV with another basic limitaion.It only has 2 HDMI inputs.For 4k or more i would be expecting 1 HDMI input per 1k.Not to much to ask when a <1k Panasonic has 3Surprise

    Blue Ray player on the BV7 has loads of problems and it has taken 3 software updates to get a stage where there are still problems, just less of them!

     

    Profile 2 BD disks. If you get the 1,5k BD upgrade to your BV7 MK111.It won`t work properly and causes problems  because it can`t get internet access.There is no network connection on this upgrade kit!

     

    I could easily go on but do you think all of the above is what you expect from your very expensive B+O?

     

    The new BV7-55 at 16 k Wow.

    Historically nice to look at product with some inovative features from time to time.

    The prices can never be justified though.

     

    If you have money to burn and want to impress your rich friends, then why not.

  • 05-10-2010 11:28 AM In reply to

    • roconn
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 02-15-2010
    • Posts 7
    • Bronze Member

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    Just as an update to anyone who may be interested... I bought the Beo10 Wink

    Both myself and wife are very happy with the looks, but one thing I probably would have taken into consideration more when we bought it... THE GODDAM REMOTE CONTROL!!!

    We opted for the standard remote because the upgraded version needed complete programming! It works for the most part, but it is truely a pain in the *** when you want to fast forward and it never seems to sense when you want to select something! the double/single clicking confusion annoys me constantly!

    B&O really need to bring out a control which is in-between... something simple and user programable but has the fwd/rwd/play/pause commands, as well as standard enter commands... what is with all the buttons at the top which I don't need but HAVE to be there as well, why are they restrictied - they would solve half my issues!

    I have noticed clouding on the screen... it only occurs at night when the screen is completely black and it CAN be quite annoying! I am currently contemplating whether I do anything about it... Have lived with it for a while, but I don't watch a huge amount of movies since I bought the TV.

    The other 'issue' is playing my Sonos music through it... quality fine... BUT it is out of sync with the player in the kitchen!! I think this is because the B&O setup processes the music whereas the kitchen is straight from ZP120 to speaker! in an open plan environment this is a pain, but I can live with it!

  • 05-10-2010 2:06 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    chaser:
    BV8-40  Master link won`t work with older B+O kit.Expensive TV with another basic limitaion

    I'm thinking of a BV8-40. Didn´t know about issues with older kit. If so I can´t buy it. What issues

  • 05-10-2010 2:55 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    A very good question and until recently I would have said yes. However, as someone with many Marketing Manager years behind me I will safely say that here in the UK they are a good 25% OVERPRICED. I was in Selfridges, London the other week and LOEWE had a super range at a much cheaper price. I love the BeoVision 10 however, I feel it should have a maximum price of £4000-4500 tops.

    I wouldn't worry about it having a SAMSUNG screen - they are superb! Still can't work out B&Os pricing these days - we are in a terrible recession and their prices are escalating. Was NOT IMPRESSED with BV10 using standard definition SKY NEWS - looked grainy. I think you will need a Pioneer or Sony blu-ray player (from £120) and sKY+ HD to get a decent picture from it.

    To sum up, a nice investment to enjoy for a good few years but at £4500 yes, not £6000  they must be nuts thinking that we could justify that amount of money nowadays - technology is getting cheaper and cheaper...

  • 05-10-2010 3:06 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    i think Sal hits the nail on the head - The Beovision 8 -40 is a great design with superb sound quality and great picture at £3500! Price wise, that's more like it

  • 05-10-2010 3:14 PM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-14-2007
    • South West, UK
    • Posts 2,360
    • Bronze Member

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    chaser:

    Overpriced.No doubt about it.In the middle of a bad financial downturn the prices went up 12%Whistle

    They are going up a further 3% in June, from what I've been told! Another price increase.

    Whilst I think the £6100 BV10-40 is reasonably priced, the £7900 BV10-46, isn't.

  • 05-10-2010 9:56 PM In reply to

    • Dave
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-17-2007
    • Brisbane, Australia
    • Posts 2,328
    • Bronze Member

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    Paul Winn:

     

    To sum up, a nice investment to enjoy for a good few years but at £4500 yes, not £6000  they must be nuts thinking that we could justify that amount of money nowadays - technology is getting cheaper and cheaper...

    THANK YOU.

    Spot on (speakers are an exception though), i am boycotting B&O until there are drastic changes in the pricing of their electronics. Until then it is 100% second-hand purchases for me.

    “Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of intelligent effort.”

    Your health and well-being comes first and fore-most.

     

     

  • 05-11-2010 4:22 PM In reply to

    • Clakke
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-01-2009
    • Sweden
    • Posts 108
    • Bronze Member

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    Hi all

    The prices in Sweden seems to have "run away". When I purchased our sound system a couple of years ago, I thought it was very expensive but somehow worth it. Looking at the price tags today, I am quite sure that I would not have bought B&O. The TVs at the time I bought the stereo was not worth considering and still aren´t. Today I am looking for Sony or Philips. I used to look at Loewe, but they did not work very good with Apple. We own one and there will be no more.

    There are probably some loudspeakers left that are fairly priced, like BL5, BL9. Unfortunately, they are over my needs and budget. Perhaps we will buy a couple of Beovox in the near future just to expand the sound in the house. The phones seems also to be OK concerning pricing, provided you already have a B&O system. The new sub could also be something for us with our BL8000, the price tag was not funny though.

    Conclusion: I think it is getting much more difficult to enter the B&O world today than just a couple of years ago. There is no real entry level. Speakers like BL4, BL4000,BL6000 is certainly not worth the money and that leaves BL3 for entry level and they are just to expensive for entry. It feels like B&O is risking their next generation of buyers. Look at Apple who produce a very good multiroom system for a fraction of the price. I am afraid that the new buyers go for Apple or something similar.

    Good evening

    Clakke

  • 05-11-2010 6:34 PM In reply to

    • Dave
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-17-2007
    • Brisbane, Australia
    • Posts 2,328
    • Bronze Member

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    Clakke:

     There is no real entry level. Speakers like BL4, BL4000,BL6000 is certainly not worth the money and that leaves BL3 for entry level and they are just to expensive for entry.

    Many will disagree with that!! The 6000's and 4000's are favourites and are reasonable entry speakers

    “Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of intelligent effort.”

    Your health and well-being comes first and fore-most.

     

     

  • 05-12-2010 4:27 AM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    Here is an interesting point I have to make regarding the Beovion10.

     

    It has 3 HDMI inputs! one of which is used for the built in dvbt hd. shame you can't get any HD channels with it!!!!! I think it has something with the UK adopting a T2 format? If this format has already been adopted by a number of freeview box makers, why haven't B&O sorted this problem yet!

     

    If you have a BV10, have you enquired about the HD module yet?

  • 05-12-2010 6:02 AM In reply to

    • StUrrock
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-04-2008
    • Cambridgeshire
    • Posts 219
    • Bronze Member

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    Hi Roconn,

    The BeoVision 10 is just great, if you have any doubts ask your local dealer for a no obligation home trial.

     

  • 05-12-2010 5:04 PM In reply to

    • Clakke
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-01-2009
    • Sweden
    • Posts 108
    • Bronze Member

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    Dave:

    Clakke:

     There is no real entry level. Speakers like BL4, BL4000,BL6000 is certainly not worth the money and that leaves BL3 for entry level and they are just to expensive for entry.

    Many will disagree with that!! The 6000's and 4000's are favourites and are reasonable entry speakers

    Hi

    I have been travelling all day and have not been able to answer. Do feel free to disagree. I am only expressing my own and several shops opinions. Personally, I have never heard a BL6000 sound good at any setup or at any volume level. It is perhaps possible to find setups where they sound good. BL4000 do sound good at quite low volume levels, but they did not have the punch that is required at this price level. Remember that BL4000 and BL6000 are still very expensive stuff. I feel that the price does not meet the expectations for them.

    Have a good evening

    Clakke

  • 05-12-2010 6:21 PM In reply to

    • Puncher
    • Top 10 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 03-27-2007
    • Nr. Durham, NE England.
    • Posts 9,588
    • Founder

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    Dave:

    Clakke:

     There is no real entry level. Speakers like BL4, BL4000,BL6000 is certainly not worth the money and that leaves BL3 for entry level and they are just to expensive for entry.

    Many will disagree with that!! The 6000's and 4000's are favourites and are reasonable entry speakers

    The 4000's are decent, not so sure about the 6000's value for money (or the 8000's these days)

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 05-12-2010 10:34 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    I think it depends a lot on what you value personally. The existence of the BeoLab 3 makes life difficult for the BeoLab 6000, but we still sell plenty of them. The sound is terrific and the look is timeless. Say what you will, but you'd be hard pressed to find an unhappy 6000 or 8000 owner!

    I'm sure I've already chimed in on this thread (it looks like it's a necro-post situation), but it's really a bit ridiculous to talk about a product being "worth the money" in a definitive way. Some have stated repeatedly that it isn't while others couldn't imagine anything else. As the saying goes, these threads throw off more heat than light.

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

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