Ilikehifi:

beomud:

Well for luxury goods it never is rational. Although you pay 5x more for perhaps just 2x the quality, the utility (personal satisfaction/happiness) that it brings sometimes cannot be measured.

So you are unable to ascertain how much pleasure you get from stuff?

That's weird!

I think you can usually measure that - mainly by asking yourself honestly after the novelty factor has worn off. This seems to be confirmed by peoples ability to articulate their conclusions about stuff they own.

 

By the way.. by which criteria do you regard the quality of a BV10 2x the of the latest greatest Pioneer? It's certainly not 2x the picture quality.

It's probably time someone corrected you on this Pioneer thing. They stopped making TVs last year. So the latest and greatest isn't that late or great. Also: It sounds from your posts like you're pretty young.

A quick personal story to illustrate what many are trying to communicate to you: I currently watch morning and evening news (and the occasional movie) on a BeoVision MX that's been in my family for almost 25 years. It's survived so many advances in technology, including the HD and flat panel revolutions, that it couldn't be considered anywhere close to technologically relevant. 

So here's where your model for decision making falls apart:

-I'm assuming that your intention in examining "the facts" is to wind up with a purchase that has lasting value in the long run.

-I think we can also agree that technology moves at a steady pace and that the industry releases a new version at least once a year at CES with incremental updates on an ongoing basis.

-The "facts" that you'd have a buyer examine are all based on the capabilities available among various brands' portfolios of technology. Things like color gamut, refresh rate, pixel count, backlighting technology, physical dimension, longevity, etc.

-However, as these things change significantly from year to year, it stands to reason that if a product is to last 10 years (15 less than my oldest television), it will spend the majority of its existence as a somewhat obsolete product. This goes for any brand, any technology, and any price. Time will leave it behind.

-So why, I would ask you, would I make my decision primarily (or entirely) on criteria that will only remain relevant for a small percentage of the life of the product? Will I care whether I bought the 240hz or the 600hz when there are 10,000hz TVs on the market?

Of course not. 

-I think what many, including myself, are trying to articulate is that making a decision that satisfies you on an emotional level will yield a more satisfying result in the long run than a purely "fact based" decision. My BeoVision MX & Avant haven't been technologically current for many many years, but what's kept them in my home and in heavy use is the emotional benefit I get when using them. Just like my favorite shoes & watch and many other things I own, they fill my days with tiny pleasures that would simply be unavailable to me had I made "consumer reports" type purchase decisions.

-And that's how I look at these other televisions. However exemplary they may be here today at this very moment, they will be bested. As soon as that happens, I have to look at what's left. And it's usually a black plastic rectangle. It's appeal drys up and blows away the very second it's obsolete.

So if your method of decision making works for you and you don't require, or don't desire, an emotional content to the items you interact with every day, that's just fine. But passion is an important component to any decision and I'd hate to think that I'd ever spend a penny on something I didn't feel passionately about. 

Well I was happy just to participate in discussions here - a very valuable contribution I'm sure you'll agree.. but since you are asking me to support the site financially how about you put your money where your mouth is.. I've got some 8000 kit here I can sell back to the community - you pay my sub and I'll pay you back when it's sold.. Deal ?? 

Ilikehifi:

 

jldmelb:

Yeah, it's only 30 pounds for 12 months!!

 

Well I was happy just to participate in discussions here - a very valuable contribution I'm sure you'll agree.. but since you are asking me to support the site financially how about you put your money where your mouth is.. I've got some 8000 kit here I can sell back to the community - you pay my sub and I'll pay you back when it's sold.. Deal ?? 

Wow.

I'd say the benefit-of-the-doubt tank is on just about on E.

Paid in full mate, your turn....

Is 'E 'good or bad ??

I dealt with someone on here recently.. wonder if they would agree hmm..

30 pounds for 12 months is dam good value!! Just over 2 pounds a month!! That's chicken feed for B&O owners!! In fact, can you even buy anything B7O for that kind of money????

Ilikehifi:

Is 'E 'good or bad ??

 

I dealt with someone on here recently.. wonder if they would agree hmm..

Like I said, it doesn't sound like you're very old so I think folks here have given you a little leeway, but your overall tone limits the "value" of your potential contributions. And while the membership may be expensive for you, it's a sign of good faith that your intention is to contribute and not just to stir the pot and move on. Maybe a sliver membership is within your budget.

Ilikehifi:

I dealt with someone on here recently.. wonder if they would agree hmm..

Did you fix 'em good??? sounds like a veiled threat

jldmelb:

Paid in full mate, your turn....

Well how about that !! What a nice guy - I'm sure his word is bond.

With the seller privileges jldmelb is granting for me, I can put that stuff up soon.

Keep your eyes peeled everyone.

Yeah I "sorted them out" good and proper.. 

Seriously though I just responded to a wanted advert..

haha!! what a.....

TripEnglish:

Like I said, it doesn't sound like you're very old so I think folks here have given you a little leeway, but your overall tone limits the "value" of your potential contributions.

What does "given you a little leeway" mean ?? I haven't done anything wrong and I don't appreciate the insinuation. You're judgement is off.. I'm 40, and speaking of tone, well done for lowering it with snotty personal comments.

Ilikehifi:

TripEnglish:

Like I said, it doesn't sound like you're very old so I think folks here have given you a little leeway, but your overall tone limits the "value" of your potential contributions.

 lowering it with snotty personal comments.

????? Pot calling the kettle black!!! Mate, you've attacked most of the postings in this thread!!

TripEnglish:

Ilikehifi:

beomud:

Well for luxury goods it never is rational. Although you pay 5x more for perhaps just 2x the quality, the utility (personal satisfaction/happiness) that it brings sometimes cannot be measured.

So you are unable to ascertain how much pleasure you get from stuff?

That's weird!

I think you can usually measure that - mainly by asking yourself honestly after the novelty factor has worn off. This seems to be confirmed by peoples ability to articulate their conclusions about stuff they own.

 

By the way.. by which criteria do you regard the quality of a BV10 2x the of the latest greatest Pioneer? It's certainly not 2x the picture quality.

It's probably time someone corrected you on this Pioneer thing. They stopped making TVs last year.

I know.. I was talking about the 9G series.

Have you got any other "corrections" for me whilst we're at it?

TripEnglish:

<trim>

-I think what many, including myself, are trying to articulate is that making a decision that satisfies you on an emotional level will yield a more satisfying result in the long run than a purely "fact based" decision.

When it comes to TV, you want both..... normally

TripEnglish:

So if your method of decision making works for you and you don't require, or don't desire, an emotional content to the items you interact with every day, that's just fine.

Well.. uh.. no... I didn't say don't consider your emotions. That's the value judgement part. What I' said is having had a great deal of experience selling " high end " electronics and have seen firsthand people, a large percentage of people, who make the same mistake over and over again by acting on impulse or "following the heart". It's just prone to error, you want to keep your emotions in check when making big purchases that you have to live with. You would think this is common sense really, but it's not an innate skill.

Hey.. I don't want to labour the point... on topic though!!

TripEnglish:

But passion is an important component to any decision and I'd hate to think that I'd ever spend a penny on something I didn't feel passionately about.

Potatoes?

jldmelb:

Pot calling the kettle black!!! Mate, you've attacked most of the postings in this thread!!

Huh?? Let's not exaggerate.. I offered varying opinions to a few posts, some in agreeance some not, you seem to have taken this as an "attack". Perhaps I shouldve put a smiley on the  "superstitious" line... You knew that was lighthearted right..??

Anyway this is a good community - good natured.. I think more highly of Beoworld than to make personal comments about people I don't know, or selective quoting for effect for that matter..

Let's move on shall we..

TripEnglish:

Ilikehifi:

Is 'E 'good or bad ??

 

I dealt with someone on here recently.. wonder if they would agree hmm..

Like I said, it doesn't sound like you're very old so I think folks here have given you a little leeway, but your overall tone limits the "value" of your potential contributions. And while the membership may be expensive for you, it's a sign of good faith that your intention is to contribute and not just to stir the pot and move on. Maybe a sliver membership is within your budget.

I'm sorry but ........... No!

The site has never harangued anyone for paid membership, nor is paid membership a pre-requisite before expressing an opinion.

As far as I can see the member has done nothing other than suggest a rational decision making process, if you disagree then fine - buy what you like, as you like it, it does not make him "wrong".

As regards "tone" - I would suggest that expressed above is far more damaging than anything expressed by "Ilikehifi".

So if your method of decision making works for you and you don't require, or don't desire, an emotional content to the items you interact with every day, that's just fine. But passion is an important component to any decision and I'd hate to think that I'd ever spend a penny on something I didn't feel passionately about.

Well articulated 'Trip'. My various audio & visual B&O items are between 6 & 16 yrs old. None are therefore 'up to date' in technological terms, but the 'buzz' I get from using and looking at them every day makes it all worth it.

Without wanting to hijack my inital post back on topic... I think a lot of points have been made which I agree with.

From a purely factual basis - IS B&O £4000 better in terms of quality, technical advancementm, etc... than other comparable TV's?? NO

Do you buy a B&O TV based purely on the quality, technology, etc? NO

What I believe is the case - I will be getting a top of the range system in terms of quality, picture and sound. Whilst advancements may make the TV somewhat outdated in as little as 2-3 years, it is currently near the peak of technology.

My decision is whilst I know I am getting the 'best', it is probably not worth the £4k additional from a purely mathematical basis... but, do i LOVE the system enough to pay that additional amount?

Time will tell Thursday today, so in 48hrs I will be looking at it in my living room! I am definately going to ask about keeping the system for a little longer than a morning, I would love to see whether the screen clouding is an issue.

I am assuming someone here may be able to answer a simple question... I haven't really used HD much upto now, but I expect I will want to. The TV has two HD inputs (I think?!)... but I've noticed a lot of newer TV's have four... what are my options for connecting the TV (and receiving HD quality) from a cable box, a PS3 and Apple TV? presumabley they would all need an HD input and I only have two available...

Puncher:

As regards "tone" - I would suggest that expressed above is far more damaging than anything expressed by "Ilikehifi".

Yeah, but that's just because you don't like me. 

TripEnglish:

Puncher:

As regards "tone" - I would suggest that expressed above is far more damaging than anything expressed by "Ilikehifi".

Yeah, but that's just because you don't like me. 

Trip... don't be so paranoid!

I am CERTAIN your pet fish like you!

...when you feed them.

Puncher:

TripEnglish:

Ilikehifi:

Is 'E 'good or bad ??

 

I dealt with someone on here recently.. wonder if they would agree hmm..

Like I said, it doesn't sound like you're very old so I think folks here have given you a little leeway, but your overall tone limits the "value" of your potential contributions. And while the membership may be expensive for you, it's a sign of good faith that your intention is to contribute and not just to stir the pot and move on. Maybe a sliver membership is within your budget.

I'm sorry but ........... No!

The site has never harangued anyone for paid membership, nor is paid membership a pre-requisite before expressing an opinion.

As far as I can see the member has done nothing other than suggest a rational decision making process, if you disagree then fine - buy what you like, as you like it, it does not make him "wrong".

As regards "tone" - I would suggest that expressed above is far more damaging than anything expressed by "Ilikehifi".

Cheers, Puncher..

roconn:

Without wanting to hijack my inital post back on topic...

How dare you!!

roconn:

Time will tell Thursday today, so in 48hrs I will be looking at it in my living room! I am definately going to ask about keeping the system for a little longer than a morning, I would love to see whether the screen clouding is an issue.

Don't forget about the blueish colour cast. You may prefer it, but be sure - it cannot be changed to a warmer setting later.

Have you considered budgeting for calibration?? The review linked to before stated the gamma from factory was a bit off, there are comments on improvements to be had. I can't imagine spending this much on a TV and not trying to squeeze every last drop of performance out of it! The monitor I'm typing on has been calibrated for publishing work, it's great!

roconn:

The TV has two HD inputs (I think?!)... but I've noticed a lot of newer TV's have four... what are my options for connecting the TV (and receiving HD quality) from a cable box, a PS3 and Apple TV? presumabley they would all need an HD input and I only have two available...

Only two?? Come on B&O this isn't 2006...

You want something like this :

http://www.tmfsolutions.co.uk/Octava_HDS5-UK.htm