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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 05-14-2010 1:18 PM by Clakke. 116 replies.
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  • 02-16-2010 12:19 PM In reply to

    • Sal
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-30-2007
    • Indianapolis, USA
    • Posts 261
    • Bronze Member

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    Stan, You're not alone. When the BV8 was released here in the States, I immediately bit the bullet. But unfortunately, I had loads of trouble with it, eventually ending up in a total warranty replacement. We moved into a bigger house and the television became to small and I sold it.

    I think that the 8-40 IS the perfect size for an entry level main room television. The orignal 8-32, was indeed geared toward a non-primary room.

    B&O need to move back to the days of the Avant philosophy: a fully capable system master at current entry level prices. $8500 for a brand new Avant back then is still WAY more afforable than a BV7 with a stand / speaker, or a BV9, etc.

    For under $10K you got a full system master, stand, surround, and a great set of speakers, and no compromise on materials.

    Althoug the BV8-40 is a great deal for entry level B&O, one has to admit that B&O is indeed skimping on the materials and build quality nowadays for their "entry-level" products.

    Sal
    Love B&O, but no longer addicted.
  • 02-16-2010 12:32 PM In reply to

    • roconn
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 02-15-2010
    • Posts 7
    • Bronze Member

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    I'm not really considering other B&O sets, purely because one of the main sell points on the BV10 is the ability to hide all your boxes on the TV stand at the back, plus the fact it doesn't really look like a TV!! If it wasn't for that I would buy a kuro/philips TV and use my existing sound system (albiet not as good as B&O).

    Just as an update... I am getting the home demo on Saturday. I have agreed with my wife that the system has to look absolutely PERFECT before I am prepared to part with the money!

    Thanks for all the posts on the topic... I think I have come round to the fact that it is a 'lifestyle' choice, i.e. I would be buying it to 'complete' the look of my house, rather than a decision based on the technical merits of the TV.

    Also, I will definately be asking a lot of questions about warranty and support from the shop before I purchase thanks to some of the posts on this site.

  • 02-16-2010 12:52 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    Sal, I've got to take issue with the fairy tail that somehow the Avant was more accessible in its day than the current offerings, like the BeoVision 7-40. 

    It was around 30", had a very good set of speakers, and a surround sound/PUC module. The picture was terrific, but it was based on a Philips screen and certainly not the best one on the market. Now the Avant was my first love and I'm not trying to diminish it, only to point out that its value proposition was weaker than the current BeoVision 7s and the price, for the time, was comparable to what's on the market at B&O today. Considering the advances in capability, the BeoVision 7 is the direct descendant of the Avant. 

    This has been hashed out a million times even with some specific math, but the Avant was always 3-4 times the cost of the competition and if you were even paying half it's asking price you were getting a giant Mitsubishi or Pioneer screen. I was selling it back then and I had a harder time selling the Avant due to its small size and astronomic price. Today I sell several BeoVision 7s a month without much fuss. I expect that when the BeoVision 8-40 and the two BeoVision 10 sizes launch here in the coming months we'll be in even better shape for increased volume.

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 02-16-2010 4:21 PM In reply to

    • SKApretto71
    • Not Ranked
      Male
    • Joined on 04-19-2007
    • Europe - Italy - Tuscany - Fucecchio
    • Posts 66
    • Founder

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    Your question is a very good question, and my advice - before answering you - is to consider first of all YOUR judgement.

    I own B&O television ("old" BV3-32, I likes to use each time I'm home, still after 5 years from purchase), CD-player and speakers. I built my system in almost 10 years, adding pieces over time, only because i do like it. I don't like the brand for the name, as I not own exclusively B&O, but I like the products I decided to own.

    I found comparison with alternatives only the first step of the buying process... what you want to but is what you do like. Forget how it compares with others... it's what you get that will remain, and let you be happy.. or not.

    It's a personal attitude.

    From my point of view some products are way too expensive, while others are more aligned... it's a point of view, just mine.

    A latest advice... why not look to "second life" (used) televisions, to lower the price? You can be surprised what people buy and sell after a few months of usage. ;)

    ---

    Raffaele "SKApretto n.71" Sgherri

    I like Chrome and spread it!

  • 02-16-2010 5:32 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    roconn:
    - Is B&O the best sound/picture quality you can buy? I read (on this site I think) that the screen for the Beovision 10 is made by Samsung, I wouldn't usually buy Samsung over brands like Sony or Pioneer, why would I buy a Samsung screen with a B&O tag on the top?

    In regards to this, yes, the BV10 is a Samsung panel.  But so are the top of the line LCDs from Sony.  Frankly, Samsung is making the best LCD panels out there and have been for some time.

     

    In regards to the rest of it, the reason that I personally don't want one is exactly the reason why so many other people do: it's an all in one unit that is easy to use.  I'm the kind of guy that gets a new TV every couple of years since the technology changes so rapidly.  If the panel was upgradable I'd look into it.  But it isn't.  So it's not for me.

    They do look awesome though.

  • 02-16-2010 5:38 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    SKApretto71:
    Forget how it compares with others...

     

    Hell no don't forget how it compares!! Are you kidding?? This TV costs seven grand!!

    You can buy 5 x near state-of-the-art Pioneer consumer TVs for that money.

    Or one, and £5,500 back in your pocket for your next car, holiday, charitable cause etc.

     

     

  • 02-16-2010 5:46 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    dilznik:
    In regards to this, yes, the BV10 is a Samsung panel.  But so are the top of the line LCDs from Sony.  Frankly, Samsung is making the best LCD panels out there and have been for some time.

     

    More importantly, due to the ENORMOUS costs involved, Samsung are among a very small group of companies who actually manufacture displays. We're basically talking LG, Panasonic, Samsung, Sony, and Sharp.

     

     

  • 02-16-2010 6:07 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    You are in the territory of diminishing returns, it's very difficult to make rational decisions about such things.

    I think you are bang-on the money with your comments, and I recommend you try holding that demo for a week. If it's so great - the saleman will obviously think so - they will be more than happy to give you a chance to live with it so you can arrive at "the correct" decision Cool I try to get out of the impulsive-purchase zone with things like this, and short term exposure isn't usually sufficient to avoid making poor decisions. It often raises more questions, than it answers. So I would arrange to use it for a week, mentally deduct the £5k from my net worth (allowing for an alternative purchase), then ask myself at the end of the week what I want more.. the TV or £5k back in my account??

    Two things worth bearing in mind, obviously this technology will be superceded in the not too distant future. Also, the colour temperature is 8500 Kelvin rather than the usual 6500 K. So it's a bit bluer and less warm than is the norm, and this is something you are locked to. The latter is more a matter of preference than anything else.

    Here is a review from a reputable source : http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?misc=search&subaction=showfull&id=1263826711

    Good luck with your experiences. With a bit of luck, you'll fall in love with it and never look back!

     

     

     

  • 02-16-2010 6:30 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    Obviously you are prepared to part with the money, so this isn't the issue... Follow your heart, not your head. This way you'll be happier each time you use it. I'm sure evryone that owns an old Jaguar or Ferrari that requires a mechanic to come along with you every time you go for a drive will tell you that they love every time they get in the car and would never give it up....

    and remember, beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder Big SmileBeer

    My B&O: 2009 Catalogue and Pricelist

  • 02-16-2010 6:53 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    jldmelb:

    Obviously you are prepared to part with the money, so this isn't the issue... Follow your heart, not your head. This way you'll be happier each time you use it. I'm sure evryone that owns an old Jaguar or Ferrari that requires a mechanic to come along with you every time you go for a drive will tell you that they love every time they get in the car and would never give it up....

    and remember, beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder Big SmileBeer

     

     

    I don't agree with this "don't think rationally" approach!! Or maybe when you say 'follow your heart', you are suggesting he think of the children he could save from dying with the sums of money involved here?

    No, respectfully, I disagree, do use your brain I emplore you !!! Smile

    [BTW of supercar owners I know, one Ferrari owner has expressed buyer-regret (sometimes known as "buyer remorse").]

     

     

  • 02-16-2010 6:55 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    Ilikehifi:
    "buyer remorse"

     

    Huh.. there's a wikipedia entry.. who'd a thunk it. Stick out tongue

     

    Buyer Remorse

     

     

  • 02-16-2010 8:11 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    If everyone used their brian and not their heart, there would be no B&O, Gucci, Rolls Royce, Rolex, etc. etc.

    My point was that if he follows his head he will buy the cheapest TV with the features he wants because this will offer the best outcome of features per cost. B&O will never satisfy this viewpoint.

    By following your heart, you will buy the TV you want . A need has been identified, which is buying a new TV. This can be satisfied by any TV on the market, so to satisfy that need on a basic level the cheapest TV will do the job. When variables are added, this becomes a want. Needs a TV, but wants aesthetics, design, certain functions. A purchase decision can be poured over too much by following your head and not your heart.

    If you want to use your head, go and buy a Conia/Sonic because they are the cheapest. If you want to use your heart, buy the B&O.. The worst that can happen is buyer remorse, it's not the end of the world

    My B&O: 2009 Catalogue and Pricelist

  • 02-16-2010 9:10 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    jldmelb:

    If everyone used their brian and not their heart, there would be no B&O, Gucci, Rolls Royce, Rolex, etc. etc.

    My point was that if he follows his head he will buy the cheapest TV with the features he wants because this will offer the best outcome of features per cost. B&O will never satisfy this viewpoint.

    By following your heart, you will buy the TV you want . A need has been identified, which is buying a new TV. This can be satisfied by any TV on the market, so to satisfy that need on a basic level the cheapest TV will do the job. When variables are added, this becomes a want. Needs a TV, but wants aesthetics, design, certain functions. A purchase decision can be poured over too much by following your head and not your heart.

    If you want to use your head, go and buy a Conia/Sonic because they are the cheapest. If you want to use your heart, buy the B&O.. The worst that can happen is buyer remorse, it's not the end of the world

     

    Sorry mate, I'm not into superstitious twaddle. I think people should make sensible, rational decisions, rather than blowing dollops of cash on a whim.

  • 02-16-2010 9:12 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    ""B&O will be the death of me.....""

     

    You said it!!

  • 02-16-2010 9:43 PM In reply to

    • Dave
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-17-2007
    • Brisbane, Australia
    • Posts 2,328
    • Bronze Member

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    TripEnglish:

    It was around 30", had a very good set of speakers, and a surround sound/PUC module. The picture was terrific, but it was based on a Philips screen and certainly not the best one on the market. Now the Avant was my first love and I'm not trying to diminish it, only to point out that its value proposition was weaker than the current BeoVision 7s and the price, for the time, was comparable to what's on the market at B&O today. Considering the advances in capability, the BeoVision 7 is the direct descendant of the Avant. 

     

    My dealer said that to me, almost word for word, when i asked him the same question.

    Well dealers can say that as much as they like, but i think the rest of us would agree, that the direct descendant is whatever is in the place in the range as the avant was. It was at the top of the range, then it was just below the BV5.

    AVANT 28 DVD = BV7 32

    AVANT 32 DVD = BV7 40

    BV5                 = BV9

    If we went by the dealers philosophy, then the BV5 descendant would be a BV10... wouldn't it?

    “Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of intelligent effort.”

    Your health and well-being comes first and fore-most.

     

     

  • 02-16-2010 10:18 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    Ilikehifi:

    jldmelb:

    If everyone used their brian and not their heart, there would be no B&O, Gucci, Rolls Royce, Rolex, etc. etc.

    My point was that if he follows his head he will buy the cheapest TV with the features he wants because this will offer the best outcome of features per cost. B&O will never satisfy this viewpoint.

    By following your heart, you will buy the TV you want . A need has been identified, which is buying a new TV. This can be satisfied by any TV on the market, so to satisfy that need on a basic level the cheapest TV will do the job. When variables are added, this becomes a want. Needs a TV, but wants aesthetics, design, certain functions. A purchase decision can be poured over too much by following your head and not your heart.

    If you want to use your head, go and buy a Conia/Sonic because they are the cheapest. If you want to use your heart, buy the B&O.. The worst that can happen is buyer remorse, it's not the end of the world

     

    Sorry mate, I'm not into superstitious twaddle. I think people should make sensible, rational decisions, rather than blowing dollops of cash on a whim.

     

     

    Superstitious twaddle??? I don't have a fear of black cats or breaking a mirror..... I don't know how superstition has come in to this??? When I buy something, I don't go and get a Tarot Card out or ask a witch doctor. Maybe check the star signs to see if I should buy a new toaster today? Stick out tongue

    My B&O: 2009 Catalogue and Pricelist

  • 02-17-2010 11:24 AM In reply to

    • Dave
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-17-2007
    • Brisbane, Australia
    • Posts 2,328
    • Bronze Member

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    jldmelb:

     

    I don't go and get a Tarot Card out or ask a witch doctor. Maybe check the star signs to see if I should buy a new toaster today? Stick out tongue

    I do! Laughing

    “Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of intelligent effort.”

    Your health and well-being comes first and fore-most.

     

     

  • 02-17-2010 5:02 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    LaughingLaughingLaughing

    My B&O: 2009 Catalogue and Pricelist

  • 02-17-2010 6:11 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    Well for luxury goods it never is rational. Although you pay 5x more for perhaps just 2x the quality, the utility (personal satisfaction/happiness) that it brings sometimes cannot be measured.

    You'll never get a suitable opinion for that because everybody's utility is different. Some people prefer not to spend on luxury, some people rather spend on bigger screens than better screens, others prefer to spend on cars and watches rather than TVs, and others spend on travel.

    My personal opinion is that I buy only the B&O that can stand the test of time. Since they're so expensive, I would rather they still be good in 10-15 years time. Hence I don't mind buying their speakers as they do have a very lengthy life time and loudspeaker technology no longer have frequent revolutionary changes. Their TVs on the other hand, however good the picture, I'm not so interested but not because they're not good, in fact I think have the best design you could get. But TV technology changes so quickly that god knows in the next few months, there might be another new form of screen coming up. Think about plasmas, LCDs, LEDs, then OLEDs in the space of the last 5-10 years.

  • 02-17-2010 7:26 PM In reply to

    • Stan
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-17-2007
    • Posts 593
    • Gold Member

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    Beomud,

    I completely agree.

    I also believe the pace of change in TV technology will slow down and/or TV manufacturors will go out of business.  IMHO, the last 5-10 years was an abberation as we've just gone through a "format change" from CRT to flat screen.  People bought flat screens to replace perfectly good (often better) CRTs (not to mention how the housing bubble fed into this as every new house and newly remodeled house also needed a flat screen).  This high demand fueled the investment required for the rapid advance in TV technology, but this recent level of demand is most likely gone for a good many years.  If I'm worried about my job, my 3 year old flat screen is just fine, and that major remodel for the media room has been put on hold.  If people aren't buying new TVs like crazy, where is the money going to come from to support the massive investments required to bring this new technology to fruition (OLED comes to mind)?  So far, we're living off the residuals from the boom, but when each new evolution doesn't fly off the shelves like the old days, then what?

    I worked for a software company during the release of Win3.1 and Win95.  Win3.1 were gravy years as everybody replaced their perfectly good DOS software with the "new and improved" windows version.  Computer sales were way up because Win3.1 made them that much more accessible to the masses.  My company assumed the same thing was going to happen with Win95 and built their business around this assumption (everybody will replace their Win3.1 software with Win95).  Guess what?  It didn't happen.  Win95 was not the "format change", but rather an evolution of perceived diminishing returns (truth be told, much of the Win3.1 software was a step back from DOS from a functionality perspective, but it was "new and different" and that's all that mattered - sounds familiar, no?).  This company, and probably many others, hit very hard times because it didn't recognize the difference between a format change and an evolution. 

    Will/Have the TV companies also fall into this trap?  I guess we'll see which ones go out of business...

    Stan

  • 02-17-2010 9:57 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    jldmelb:

    Ilikehifi:

    jldmelb:

    If everyone used their brian and not their heart, there would be no B&O, Gucci, Rolls Royce, Rolex, etc. etc.

    My point was that if he follows his head he will buy the cheapest TV with the features he wants because this will offer the best outcome of features per cost. B&O will never satisfy this viewpoint.

    By following your heart, you will buy the TV you want . A need has been identified, which is buying a new TV. This can be satisfied by any TV on the market, so to satisfy that need on a basic level the cheapest TV will do the job. When variables are added, this becomes a want. Needs a TV, but wants aesthetics, design, certain functions. A purchase decision can be poured over too much by following your head and not your heart.

    If you want to use your head, go and buy a Conia/Sonic because they are the cheapest. If you want to use your heart, buy the B&O.. The worst that can happen is buyer remorse, it's not the end of the world

     

    Sorry mate, I'm not into superstitious twaddle. I think people should make sensible, rational decisions, rather than blowing dollops of cash on a whim.

     

     

    Superstitious twaddle??? I don't have a fear of black cats or breaking a mirror..... I don't know how superstition has come in to this??? When I buy something, I don't go and get a Tarot Card out or ask a witch doctor. Maybe check the star signs to see if I should buy a new toaster today? Stick out tongue

     

    Well I don't want to get overly philosophical, but you know when you suggest people follow their hearts not their brains, you do realize that this is not possible as the heart has no cognitive functioning capability?? Whistle

    What you are basically saying is (without the flowery language.. ahem)... don't-be-mindful about the decision making process. That is an absurd and flawed notion. Time and time again it is shown that buying luxuries on impulse is the worst thing you can do - wreckless, prone to error. As an erstwhile hifi dealer, it never ceased to amaze me how folk repeat the same basic mistakes day in day out resulting in great disappointments, remorse, and in the long term.. the serious mental condition.. "upgraditis" (which can wreck marriages!!) Some of these people are stubborn and refuse to change, whilst others learn the skill of making measured decisions, and it is a skill, but not a difficult one to master.

    For illustration, consider the person who buys a pair of high end speakers after a store demo. The customer is astounded by the superb detail, it's as if the sounds are etched in space! The excitment builds as the moment arrives, finally he has the beauties in his own home and begins to dig in. It's going OK, but.. there is something amiss. After a few days the truth emerges - the detail is superficial, caused by an EQ lift in the upper frequency range which cannot be altered. In any long session they turn out to be fatiguing speakers to this listener. (Those involved in the hifi trade will know this story well.) The "dull" comparison speakers which were quickly rejected did not leap out at the listener, did not involve them.. but were indeed more neutral and accurate, smoother, refined, and could create transcendental experiences - qualities only appreciable with significant experience and exposure (or guidance on what to listen for from a trained listener.. check out those reverb trails!!) So, anyway, buyer thinks to post online about his experience and compare with others, and discovers others in the same boat.. having already posted to that effect, and that's a sinking feeling - he realises he could have avoided a costly mistake if he'd checked first. Now he's lumbered with these things..

    Making measured decisions simply involves combining value judgements with :

    Research
    Feedback
    Exposure

    ..and doing anything but buying on impulse!

    Seriously.. it works. Cool

    As I say, some people stubbornly insist on avoiding any semblence of rationality when buying luxury items, but the two are most definitely not mutually exclusive. Uh.. and I'm saying all this on a B&O forum am I mad?? Wink

    Our original poster here seems to be sensible.. I'm actually excited on his behalf and looking forward to the next installment. Beer

  • 02-17-2010 10:24 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    beomud:
    Well for luxury goods it never is rational. Although you pay 5x more for perhaps just 2x the quality, the utility (personal satisfaction/happiness) that it brings sometimes cannot be measured.

    So you are unable to ascertain how much pleasure you get from stuff?

    That's weird!

    I think you can usually measure that - mainly by asking yourself honestly after the novelty factor has worn off. This seems to be confirmed by peoples ability to articulate their conclusions about stuff they own.

     

    By the way.. by which criteria do you regard the quality of a BV10 2x the of the latest greatest Pioneer? It's certainly not 2x the picture quality. Big Smile

  • 02-17-2010 10:34 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    LaughingLaughingLaughing

    Before attacking people's opinions, how about putting your money where your mouth is!! The site needs the support

    My B&O: 2009 Catalogue and Pricelist

  • 02-17-2010 10:57 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    jldmelb:
    Before attacking people's opinions, how about putting your money where your mouth is!! The site needs the support

     

    Are you talking to me??

     

  • 02-17-2010 11:10 PM In reply to

    Re: IS B&O worth the money???

    Yeah, it's only 30 pounds for 12 months!! Yes -  thumbs up

    My B&O: 2009 Catalogue and Pricelist

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