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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 01-25-2009 9:22 AM by Stars. 194 replies.
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  • 09-26-2008 2:57 AM In reply to

    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    I do not intend to go into the line item technical detail of how I achieved my objective, it was more to show that the Beo5 is a fantastic product and has many capabilities still not used or have not been made available yet.

    There was several postings talking about how many IR diodes there was etc, all this data can be found in the "Overview" section of the Beo5 web pages HERE As stated on this overview section is says "IR operation Beo4 IR protocol, Beo5 IR protocol, Philips RC5, Bitstream, NEC and Raw" meaning something in the order of 95% of remotes could be supported with the correct configuration setup.

    The programming of the Beo5 requires the knowledge of the "bit" codes for each command and the width in microseconds of the "Mark" and "Zero" of the pulses. The Beo5 Configuration programme has several undocumented commands of which the following are the key one:-

    BITSTREAM#BITS= in the form of 10001000001000010100
    ALTBIT= in the form of 10001000001000010100
    MARKFLANK= in the form of xxxx microseconds
    SPACEFLANK= in the form of xxxx microseconds
    SPACE2FLANK= in the form of xxxx microseconds
    PRESIGNALHI= in the form of xxxx microseconds
    PRESIGNALLO= in the form of xxxx microseconds

    The time consuming part of configuring any 3rd party product is saving all the IR code information. The list of products supported by B&O's PUC is now very large and so for those products in the PUC the above information has already been decoded and saved because the PUC is sending out the same IR as the Beo5 could with the associated XML file.

    So, where are we, well we CAN control most 3rd party products with the Beo5, however even if you have the IR codes for a product AND you have the Configuration tool most people would not be able to produce the XML file because its very time consuming.and technically quite complex.

    So, the bottomline is that you will need to get your dealer to do this for you and there will be a charge for doing it.

    Regards Keith....

  • 09-26-2008 4:13 AM In reply to

    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    Or you could start a juicy business Keith ;-)
  • 09-26-2008 4:38 PM In reply to

    • TWG
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    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    mmh, I thought the sense of a great forum like this is sharing information, feelings, know how etc. so personaly I'm a little bit surprised that you don't explain how you did it or what is needed to do this.

    XML-File would  be no problem to any software developer. I could understand that it is NOT intended that several users mess up their remotes with buggy code, but those few who are interested in, should have the opportunity to participate on this.

    You seem to have done some great work with this "technology demo" proving that the beo 5 could be a realy great remote while B&O actualy  failed to do so.

    I think that the XML-File is a smaller problem compared to getting the IR-codes?

    C'mon Keith, we want it! And the bad thing: You KNOW that we want it :-)

     

    Greetings 

  • 09-26-2008 5:22 PM In reply to

    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    I think you have identified the exact reason why Keith cannot release this information. If users cause problems with their remotes and then go back to B&O complaining that we have bricked the remote, we will not be popular.

    As the work is very much at a development stage, I also think that it is unfair to badger Keith into releasing what has been a considerable body of research. I would not be surprised that this type of work will be taken up by B&O and will filter to us via the configuration tool. I for one am deeply in awe of what Keith has achieved so far - I confess my Beo5 is an expensive paperweight! 

  • 09-26-2008 5:44 PM In reply to

    • benjnz
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    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    I agree with Peter Big Smile

    My Beo5 is not even a paper weight, it's currently in the hopeful xmas present to self category Stick out tongue

  • 09-26-2008 6:16 PM In reply to

    • TWG
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    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    Sorry for that! I didn't want to sound harsh or unfair and I didn't want to badger Keith.
    I'm not very eloquent when speaking english ;)

    I'm just curious about this as it makes me happy to see that the Beo 5 CAN control my 3rd party equipment. It would make life much easier.

    It wasn't meant to affect Keith. I've great respect for his afford and work!


  • 09-26-2008 11:07 PM In reply to

    • Alex
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    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    Keith Saunders:

    I do not intend to go into the line item technical detail of how I achieved my objective, it was more to show that the Beo5 is a fantastic product and has many capabilities still not used or have not been made available yet.

    There was several postings talking about how many IR diodes there was etc, all this data can be found in the "Overview" section of the Beo5 web pages HERE As stated on this overview section is says "IR operation Beo4 IR protocol, Beo5 IR protocol, Philips RC5, Bitstream, NEC and Raw" meaning something in the order of 95% of remotes could be supported with the correct configuration setup.

    The programming of the Beo5 requires the knowledge of the "bit" codes for each command and the width in microseconds of the "Mark" and "Zero" of the pulses. The Beo5 Configuration programme has several undocumented commands of which the following are the key one:-

    BITSTREAM#BITS= in the form of 10001000001000010100
    ALTBIT= in the form of 10001000001000010100
    MARKFLANK= in the form of xxxx microseconds
    SPACEFLANK= in the form of xxxx microseconds
    SPACE2FLANK= in the form of xxxx microseconds
    PRESIGNALHI= in the form of xxxx microseconds
    PRESIGNALLO= in the form of xxxx microseconds

    The time consuming part of configuring any 3rd party product is saving all the IR code information. The list of products supported by B&O's PUC is now very large and so for those products in the PUC the above information has already been decoded and saved because the PUC is sending out the same IR as the Beo5 could with the associated XML file.

    So, where are we, well we CAN control most 3rd party products with the Beo5, however even if you have the IR codes for a product AND you have the Configuration tool most people would not be able to produce the XML file because its very time consuming.and technically quite complex.

    So, the bottomline is that you will need to get your dealer to do this for you and there will be a charge for doing it.

     

    Hit the nail right on the head.

     

    Also about dealers doing this ... I've yet to encounter a dealer who actually figured this out.  You and I are probably the only individuals (outside of product development!) that have figured this out.  I used items that are actually in the PUC since most of the hard work (ie. capturing the IR in the correct format) has already been done.

     

    As for everyone who wants to control third party products your time is coming soon! 

    Store Manager Bang & Olufsen Broadway 927 Broadway New York, NY 10010
  • 10-02-2008 4:38 AM In reply to

    • Weebyx
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    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    Keith Saunders:

    I do not intend to go into the line item technical detail of how I achieved my objective, it was more to show that the Beo5 is a fantastic product and has many capabilities still not used or have not been made available yet.

    There was several postings talking about how many IR diodes there was etc, all this data can be found in the "Overview" section of the Beo5 web pages HERE As stated on this overview section is says "IR operation Beo4 IR protocol, Beo5 IR protocol, Philips RC5, Bitstream, NEC and Raw" meaning something in the order of 95% of remotes could be supported with the correct configuration setup.

    The programming of the Beo5 requires the knowledge of the "bit" codes for each command and the width in microseconds of the "Mark" and "Zero" of the pulses. The Beo5 Configuration programme has several undocumented commands of which the following are the key one:-

    BITSTREAM#BITS= in the form of 10001000001000010100
    ALTBIT= in the form of 10001000001000010100
    MARKFLANK= in the form of xxxx microseconds
    SPACEFLANK= in the form of xxxx microseconds
    SPACE2FLANK= in the form of xxxx microseconds
    PRESIGNALHI= in the form of xxxx microseconds
    PRESIGNALLO= in the form of xxxx microseconds

    The time consuming part of configuring any 3rd party product is saving all the IR code information. The list of products supported by B&O's PUC is now very large and so for those products in the PUC the above information has already been decoded and saved because the PUC is sending out the same IR as the Beo5 could with the associated XML file.

    So, where are we, well we CAN control most 3rd party products with the Beo5, however even if you have the IR codes for a product AND you have the Configuration tool most people would not be able to produce the XML file because its very time consuming.and technically quite complex.

    So, the bottomline is that you will need to get your dealer to do this for you and there will be a charge for doing it.

    Hi again, since you refuse to help us :) can you at least tell me a bit more about what the different xml tags mean.

    BITSTREAM is easy, it is the decoded bitsequence that the 3rd party product uses internally.

    ALTBIT is used if the 3rd party product uses different codes for repeat signals.

    Then the flanks, i guess that these are used to dertermine what makes a 0 and 1, but i cannot figure it out. For instance, the Sony protocol determines a 0 as pulse of 550microsecs followed by a space of 550msecs, and a 1 as 2*550msecs followed by a space of 550msecs. it has a headerlength of 4*550msecs.

    I suspect the spaceflank and space2flank to be the 0 and 1 times, and the mark as 4*550msecs, but what is presignalhi/lo ?

    Really hope you will clearify this for me, i understand that you will not give the full instructions from scratch, but if i just could understand these XML tags, then the rest is available to me :) 

    /Weebyx

  • 10-02-2008 4:43 AM In reply to

    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    The word is out that in November, the Beo5 software will support 3rd party devices...

    I would wait until then and see what it is about.

    p.

  • 10-02-2008 5:10 AM In reply to

    • Weebyx
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    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    wtlc2zpx:

    The word is out that in November, the Beo5 software will support 3rd party devices...

    I would wait until then and see what it is about.

    p.

    Ok, that probably means that all the 3'rd party products in the PUC table will be available to control without the PUC controller, but directly via Beo5, great news, but there is no PUC table for my Denon DVD player :( So it would bee cool to add it myself :)

    /Weebyx

  • 10-02-2008 5:21 AM In reply to

    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    No... they were talking about a broader support, they gave the example of controlling a Roomba Vaccum cleaner.

    Regarding the PUC your dealer can create a special entry for your device.

    For AV devices, PUC will remain a better option. For home automation devices, direct control is a better choice.

  • 10-02-2008 5:41 AM In reply to

    • Weebyx
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    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    wtlc2zpx:

    No... they were talking about a broader support, they gave the example of controlling a Roomba Vaccum cleaner.

    Regarding the PUC your dealer can create a special entry for your device.

    For AV devices, PUC will remain a better option. For home automation devices, direct control is a better choice.

    Isn't it B&O in Struer that should create the PUC entry, and the last time i heard, it would cost me 150£ at least to have one made.

    /Weebyx

  • 10-02-2008 5:47 AM In reply to

    • Quim43
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    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    Weebyx:

    Ok, that probably means that all the 3'rd party products in the PUC table will be available to control without the PUC controller, but directly via Beo5, great news, but there is no PUC table for my Denon DVD player :( So it would bee cool to add it myself :)

    /Weebyx

    What model is your Denon DVD Player? I can look in the database.

    Quim

  • 10-02-2008 6:40 AM In reply to

    • Weebyx
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    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    Quim43:
    Weebyx:

    Ok, that probably means that all the 3'rd party products in the PUC table will be available to control without the PUC controller, but directly via Beo5, great news, but there is no PUC table for my Denon DVD player :( So it would bee cool to add it myself :)

    /Weebyx

    What model is your Denon DVD Player? I can look in the database.

    Denon DVD-2500, i cannot find it in the Beo5 config tool, and i asked my dealer to install ALL the Denon products when he created the new PUC for my BV4, i had hoped that one of them would work with mine, but they dont :(

    /weebyx

  • 10-23-2008 11:55 AM In reply to

    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    Weebyx,

    You said:-

    Ok, that probably means that all the 3'rd party products in the PUC table will be available to control without the PUC controller, but directly via Beo5, great news, but there is no PUC table for my Denon DVD player :( So it would bee cool to add it myself :)

    /Weebyx

    My response is:-

    The following Denon DVD products are already configured for the PUC and can be download by your dealer. They are:-

    DVD 1740/1940

    DVD 3910

    DVD A1XV

    G Denon DVD

     

    Regards Keith....

  • 10-23-2008 12:07 PM In reply to

    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    I have started to add information related to controlling 3rd party products with the Beo5 to the Beo5 Information Pages HERE

    To date full details are available for products which use the Philips RC5 protocol including a "generic" template and instructions on how to use it. This protocol is widely used by many manufacturers partularly for European designed products.

    There is also currently two other downloadable Beo5 XML templates for 3rd party products namely for the Rania light dimmer which includes scene control and the TileVision bathroom TV often integrated into B&O systems. The Rania light dimmer uses the bitstream protocol and information and templates will appear on the Beo5 Information pages in the coming weeks.

    Regards Keith....

  • 10-23-2008 12:56 PM In reply to

    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    Thanks Keith!
  • 10-23-2008 2:56 PM In reply to

    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    Keith Saunders:

    I have started to add information related to controlling 3rd party products with the Beo5 to the Beo5 Information Pages HERE

    To date full details are available for products which use the Philips RC5 protocol including a "generic" template and instructions on how to use it. This protocol is widely used by many manufacturers partularly for European designed products.

    There is also currently two other downloadable Beo5 XML templates for 3rd party products namely for the Rania light dimmer which includes scene control and the TileVision bathroom TV often integrated into B&O systems. The Rania light dimmer uses the bitstream protocol and information and templates will appear on the Beo5 Information pages in the coming weeks.

    What is the advantage of using this template for the Rania over the one in the Beo5 Config tool?

  • 10-23-2008 3:05 PM In reply to

    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    You said:-

    What is the advantage of using this template for the Rania over the one in the Beo5 Config tool?

    My response:-

    The configuration tool does not come with a template for the Rania dimmer, but it does come with Lutron Maestro and Lutron GRX-16IT-WH-2082 templates

    Regards Keith....

  • 10-24-2008 7:46 AM In reply to

    • Weebyx
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    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    Keith Saunders:

    I have started to add information related to controlling 3rd party products with the Beo5 to the Beo5 Information Pages HERE

    To date full details are available for products which use the Philips RC5 protocol including a "generic" template and instructions on how to use it. This protocol is widely used by many manufacturers partularly for European designed products.

    There is also currently two other downloadable Beo5 XML templates for 3rd party products namely for the Rania light dimmer which includes scene control and the TileVision bathroom TV often integrated into B&O systems. The Rania light dimmer uses the bitstream protocol and information and templates will appear on the Beo5 Information pages in the coming weeks.

    Thank you, i actually has access to a Lintronic box, so i will try to play around with it :)

    /Weebyx

  • 10-31-2008 4:43 AM In reply to

    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    I am pleased to inform you that the Beo5 Information Web pages have been updated as follows:-

    • The known issues and observation page has been updated to reflect the observations when using version 1.30 of the Configuration Tool.
    • The FAQ page has been updated.
    • The "Download" page HERE has been updated with a number of 3rd party product templates which will be added to over the coming weeks. A list of what is currently available is below

    The following 3rd Party product templates are available HERE and are:-

    • A Generic RC5 template which with the addition of device address and command code will work with ANY 3rd party product which uses the Philips RC5 protocol. These RC5 protocol codes are used by a large number of manufacturers partularly where the product was designed in Europe. See the RC5 web page HERE for full details on how to use it.
    • A template for the Lutron Rania dimmer which is NOT B&O compatible, but is particularly useful in the UK where light switches normally do not have a neutral wire and these dimmers are reasonably priced.
    • A template for a TileVision bathroom TV which has both analogue and digital tuners and is excellent as a bathroom link TV
    • Apple Macbook
    • Logitech iPOD Docking Station
    • Panasonic Projectors
    • Denon DVD Players

    In the coming weeks, a generic NEC & Panasonic template will be available with details on how to use them.

    Also I am constructing a web page for those dealers and members who own or have access to a Lintronic box which will show how you can convert the "IR Code Learn" codes into Beo5 XML code protocol. If you don't have a Lintronic converter box, but intend to create a large number of 3rd party configurations, then this is a invalueable tool and worth the purchase.

    Regards Keith....

  • 10-31-2008 5:27 AM In reply to

    • Luigi
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    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    You have done a great job!

    Thank you very much for all your help.

    Luis

  • 10-31-2008 5:43 AM In reply to

    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    Isn't there a database on the net with remote control codes for download...

    If we find the right database and I am told how to transform those in to a Beo 5 template, I am happy to try and implement it in a VB program.

    p.

     

  • 10-31-2008 5:58 AM In reply to

    • Quim43
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    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    Thank You very much, Keith, for this great work you are doing. You are making the Beo5 a complete remote control.

    Now, I'll wait for the generic NEC template, I think I found the codes for my Fonestar RDTS-680.

    Regards

    Quim

  • 10-31-2008 6:00 AM In reply to

    • Weebyx
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    Re: Beo5 - where are we?

    wtlc2zpx:

    Isn't there a database on the net with remote control codes for download...

    If we find the right database and I am told how to transform those in to a Beo 5 template, I am happy to try and implement it in a VB program.

    p.

    I have already created a Java program for creating the ir codes from the Lintronicbox into Beo5 XML. I am testing it right now, and when this is done, perhaps Keith will put it on his Beo5 page, with instructions.

     /Weebyx

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