Eugene:

The were several "changes" or slight redesigns to the 60.2 crossover during production. The cross you are flashing Evan looks like mine but if Mika come thru with a picture of his it will be a chunk of chip board with everything run in series (like an old uniphase cross) It was changed at least one more time with the RL6000 and it nothing close electronically to the RL60.

The Service manual as I recall had a couple typos and emissions which is why I usually dont order parts until I have had a look inside.

Your lucky if the driver is bad I have a spare. In fact I have a whole speaker munus the cabinet.

No way! Looks like Todd and I have found the perfect excuse to pay you a visit!!!

Evan:

Rich:

Of course, one would expect the two drivers to measure the same. 

Exactly. For me to get equal performance I need drivers with equal electical properties.

If I had one driver rebuilt, would it still result in a unbalanced pair? Would Todd have to get both mid-woofers rebuilt to get the all-desired balance between the speakers?

In the end, I suspect it would a crap shoot.  As would getting a spare from Eugene.  Chances are better with 3 drivers to get 2 very close to equal, though, yes?

You may remember my first pair of M70s were a mismatched pair.  Now that I have experimented with damping material type and amount plus position, as well as using a more powerful amplifier, I am very pleased with my refurb results.  The speakers sound the same to me. 

In the end it'll be up to Todd's ears to decide.

If it were me, I'd try a replacement before trying to repair a voice coil.  And if I could, I'd take my pair to someone who had a "good" pair and do some direct comparisons.

they even sent the original ribbons. I had never got around to completely unpacking. Bought during the one of my Beocrack binges a few years back. Dont recall paying very much for it either.

 

 

Rich:

Evan:

Rich:

Of course, one would expect the two drivers to measure the same. 

Exactly. For me to get equal performance I need drivers with equal electical properties.

If I had one driver rebuilt, would it still result in a unbalanced pair? Would Todd have to get both mid-woofers rebuilt to get the all-desired balance between the speakers?

In the end, I suspect it would a crap shoot.  As would getting a spare from Eugene.  Chances are better with 3 drivers to get 2 very close to equal, though, yes?

You may remember my first pair of M70s were a mismatched pair.  Now that I have experimented with damping material type and amount plus position, as well as using a more powerful amplifier, I am very pleased with my refurb results.  The speakers sound the same to me. 

In the end it'll be up to Todd's ears to decide.

If it were me, I'd try a replacement before trying to repair a voice coil.  And if I could, I'd take my pair to someone who had a "good" pair and do some direct comparisons.

Oh yes, who could forget the "Curious case of the mismatched pair of M70s"! I was hoping these RLs would be a little less complicated!!

Eugene:

original ribbons

WHOA!! Complete with printing?!

Your BeoCrack investment will start to pay out!

Evan:

I was hoping these RLs would be a little less complicated!!

Then may I suggest Beovox S40s?  (No affiliation with me.)

$80 for a pair including shipping.  $25 for a refoam kit.  $10 (tops) in capacitors.

Easy in, easy out.

Good job Evan, Todd, now get over to Richard and find out about the driver, I like your measuremant table, I always make notes and after a while I lose them or cant read what I wrote.

When you get time and feel for it, it would be a good idea to make a drawing of the crossovers, there are more different ones for these RL 60s.

When done post it in your files on your profile, then we can find it again.

Rich:

Evan:

I was hoping these RLs would be a little less complicated!!

Then may I suggest Beovox S40s?

$80 for a pair including shipping.  $25 for a refoam kit.  $10 (tops) in capacitors.

Easy in, easy out.

Maybe complicated was the wrong word, I was hoping these RLs would be a little less tempermental!!

I feel like we are close to sorting the RLs for good. They are already very, very close.

Besides, I think Todd is attached to these Red Lines! I'm sure once the BeoVirus digs in, he will get a set of S speakers.

Thanks Soren, as soon as Todd is brought up to speed, we will take a trip across town and meet up with Mr. R!

I enjoy the detailed bit, making the table was fun - I guess I'm a bit of a nerd! I've never traced a circuit before, but I'll do my best to make a diagram out of it. That's a good idea.

No way a nerd, a good and happy amateur, (compared to profs like Martin). Start with the circuit from the manual, then scratch the items not used and put in yours, remember to put in the values where available, and Speaker production number.

And thank you to you,Todd and all other implicated, for a good and very entertaining thread

Eugene:

The were several "changes" or slight redesigns to the 60.2 crossover during production. The cross you are flashing Evan looks like mine but if Mika come thru with a picture of his it will be a chunk of chip board with everything run in series (like an old uniphase cross) It was changed at least one more time with the RL6000 and it nothing close electronically to the RL60.

Chipboard indeed, seems like I have quite an early pair. I don't think I took a pic of the actual crossover and I can't find the schematic (it is somewhere on the forum), but the bass and mid networks were the same as in the service manual. The treble part was quite different.

("the same" with a caveat: the coils had no markings, so there's no way of knowing if they are actually the same value as in the SM)

Evan:

Here you are Gunther, sorry it took so long, I was distracted by dinner!

No problem, just remember: Eating & Drinking is half of your nutrition

Looked at the crossover: Result is:

Woofer & Mid are exactly like in the on-site service manual.

On the tweeter there is one cap less but the tweeter's level is reduced slightly by a resistor voltage divider 1R / 22R.

That 22R you are measuring as 1.7R is ok as it is paralleled by the 1R and a coil DC-wise.

So now that you found the driver to be open-circuit and Eugene steps in here there's no doubt you got it right.

If you can hear something from the open driver - was it when speaker was fully assembled? If it's dead it still works a little like the old ABR's - they will be moved by the pressure change in the box.

Glad you traced it down. Keep posting the results. And don't forget Soren; he likes pics...

   Gunther

P.S. So back to my work - it's monday and have to test a PCB prototype today. Sometimes there's other things but B&O

 

Søren Mexico:

No way a nerd, a good and happy amateur, (compared to profs like Martin). Start with the circuit from the manual, then scratch the items not used and put in yours, remember to put in the values where available, and Speaker production number.

And thank you to you,Todd and all other implicated, for a good and very entertaining thread

Alright, I'll get on the diagram after we are all finished.

tournedos:

Eugene:

The were several "changes" or slight redesigns to the 60.2 crossover during production. The cross you are flashing Evan looks like mine but if Mika come thru with a picture of his it will be a chunk of chip board with everything run in series (like an old uniphase cross) It was changed at least one more time with the RL6000 and it nothing close electronically to the RL60.

Chipboard indeed, seems like I have quite an early pair. I don't think I took a pic of the actual crossover and I can't find the schematic (it is somewhere on the forum), but the bass and mid networks were the same as in the service manual. The treble part was quite different.

("the same" with a caveat: the coils had no markings, so there's no way of knowing if they are actually the same value as in the SM)

Todd's pair is from 1988. The cross changes must have been made rapidly - all within the first year?

The coils here are unmarked also.

I apparently posted a full thread on my RL60.2 recap, but the pics disappeared during a forum upgrade and I can't find them on my local computers either.

Anyway, the schematics are in another thread and the one I had seems to match what Günther described above:

 

tournedos:

Anyway, the schematics are in another thread and the one I had seems to match what Günther described above:

Mika do you still have and can you post the production number of the RL 60-2s, I'm trying to get the diff. crossovers in one file, maybe we can get it into the manuals.

Søren Mexico:

Mika do you still have and can you post the production number of the RL 60-2s, I'm trying to get the diff. crossovers in one file, maybe we can get it into the manuals.

Argv, I had that photo on the work computer, but just came home from there... and the actual speakers are at the office as well

I'll get them for you when I have a chance!

no hurry

hemenex:

Evan:

Here you are Gunther, sorry it took so long, I was distracted by dinner!

No problem, just remember: Eating & Drinking is half of your nutrition

Looked at the crossover: Result is:

Woofer & Mid are exactly like in the on-site service manual.

On the tweeter there is one cap less but the tweeter's level is reduced slightly by a resistor voltage divider 1R / 22R.

That 22R you are measuring as 1.7R is ok as it is paralleled by the 1R and a coil DC-wise.

So now that you found the driver to be open-circuit and Eugene steps in here there's no doubt you got it right.

If you can hear something from the open driver - was it when speaker was fully assembled? If it's dead it still works a little like the old ABR's - they will be moved by the pressure change in the box.

Glad you traced it down. Keep posting the results. And don't forget Soren; he likes pics...

   Gunther

P.S. So back to my work - it's monday and have to test a PCB prototype today. Sometimes there's other things but B&O

 

I agree, everything in the cross checks out and both boards are consistent.

Yes the speaker's sound was occuring at all points of use.

Good luck on your prototype. I have to step away from B&O for a little while too, I need to take care of some chores.

Okay everyone, wish me luck, I'm getting ready to glue the strap grooves on the second speaker. Going to do this one the right way.

LUCK.LUCK

Evan:

Okay everyone, wish me luck, I'm getting ready to glue the strap grooves on the second speaker. Going to do this one the right way.

Have you tried to put the straps on the first one which was not glued? If that works out then I guess it's not necessary to do the 2nd one, unless you could fix the first (or else you see differences). Just curious... I know you don't have the original straps but there are plenty of other alternatives.

Alrighty, the 2nd speaker is done. It was a lot of work but it was worth it. It is 2:25am for me, hopefully I will be able to get up early enough for a redo of a sunburst spotlight pic in the morning.

It would have been a good idea to try some sort of straps, huh Leslie? Haha It didn't even cross my mind. I currently have no straps at all to test anyway. Not even any balloon ribbon! Considering how well this 2nd speaker turned out, I will be redoing the 1st for sure.

Good night guys! Talk to you in a few hours haha

Well? Any better?? I think so!

Evan:

Well? Any better?? I think so!

All right - add the straps and it'll look like a proper RL60.2

Hope the audible part will be taken care of with the new driver as well!