in Search
Untitled Page

ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
READ ONLY FORUM

This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 10-19-2009 5:07 AM by Steve at Sounds Heavenly. 160 replies.
Page 2 of 7 (161 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next > ... Last »
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • 10-07-2009 3:28 PM In reply to

    • Dillen
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-14-2007
    • Copenhagen / Denmark
    • Posts 5,008
    • Founder

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    Please let one thing be clear; B&O did not ask (let alone tell) Beoworld to remove or edit anything.
    That decision was the site owners and as a true B&O enthusiast I support it.

    Martin
    (Beoworld moderator)

  • 10-07-2009 3:31 PM In reply to

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    Clearly a balance needs to be struck between on the one hand a shabby freely hosted internet forum with little moderation, and a slick, informative, commercial forum with manufacturer (hello BV8 in the prize draw) links and slightly more moderation on the other. I feel we are very much tending towards the latter, but it is up to forum members to decide where their loyalties lie. Currently there's nowhere else to go, and to  a certain extent why would anyone want to go anywhere else? I think those in charge mustn't start to view these occasional flarings as irksome though, as at least it shows everyone out there in internet land is wide awake and has an opinion!

    President, Beomaster 8000 Appreciation Society

  • 10-07-2009 3:37 PM In reply to

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    Medogsfat:
    As far as I am aware no site sponsor has EVER asked for a thread to be edited or removed. Any such actions are done entirely by the moderators - often after some debate.

    Somehow a copy of the email of the guy complaining about his competitor "advertising" ended up in my inbox!!! Not exactly sure why.

    I understand that you'd like people to pay for advertising, but the fact that these guy and B&O are bringing out new cables is also valuable information to us Beoworlders.

    I think there is a nuance between announcing a new product or service, once in a while, and repeatedly spamming the forum. 

    p.

  • 10-07-2009 3:39 PM In reply to

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    I don't mind moderation when it comes to removing advertising like postings as it happened before. It's different if it is posted by a member versus by someone affiliated with the company ...

    This one bugs me though .... a pre release picture is of interest .... I can see the point of not wanting to rain on their parade but these things happen all the time anyhow .... if somebody wants to damage their event they can just submit it somewhere else and get much more attention within hours ... 

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 10-07-2009 3:48 PM In reply to

    • Puncher
    • Top 10 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 03-27-2007
    • Nr. Durham, NE England.
    • Posts 9,588
    • Founder

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    jk1002:

    I don't mind moderation when it comes to removing advertising like postings as it happened before.

    This one bugs me though .... a pre release picture is of interest .... I can see the point of not wanting to rain on their parade but these things happen all the time anyhow .... if somebody wants to damage their event they can just submit it somewhere else and get much more attention within hours ... 

    ............... on the other hand - what difference does a fortnight make? I'm sure most who follow this forum know roughly what to expect from descriptions and sketches, if you follow the manufacturer and brand why steal their glory ?

    Maybe a visit to your dealer could result in a peek at a picture for your own information (especially if you are keen to place a pre-order) and you could confirm the rumours are correct, otherwise, if you aren't desparate to buy, why the rush?

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 10-07-2009 4:57 PM In reply to

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    Personally I feel that the sketches have done more damage then this actual picture might do but that is a different story. If you google "Beovision 10" that and a picture of Trip English show up ....

    I am not desperate to to buy but can't follow the logic that this was posted to ruin the launch event. Getting an early unauthorized sneak peak is what happens all the time and I do not think requires moderation - which to me looks like a "tip to the hat" to B&O and in fact wold raise questions about the independence.

     

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 10-07-2009 5:21 PM In reply to

    • Puncher
    • Top 10 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 03-27-2007
    • Nr. Durham, NE England.
    • Posts 9,588
    • Founder

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    jk1002:

    Personally I feel that the sketches have done more damage then this actual picture might do but that is a different story. If you google "Beovision 10" that and a picture of Trip English show up ....

    I am not desperate to to buy but can't follow the logic that this was posted to ruin the launch event. Getting an early unauthorized sneak peak is what happens all the time and I do not think requires moderation - which to me looks like a "tip to the hat" to B&O and in fact wold raise questions about the independence.

     

    Fair enough - it's just that seeing a picture of the BV10 a few weeks in advance isn't going to change my life (or my opinion of the TV or Beoworld, now or before). Each to his own.

    Personally I suspect the leaking of a picture here - in this instance, with a new account and a made up name, is less about spoiling B&O's launch plans, than it is about smearing Beoworld - I could be wrong.

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 10-07-2009 6:52 PM In reply to

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    Sorry guys, you can`t be serious. Despite they even did not ask to remove the pic you did it? And you feel like "true enthusiats"? That sounds more like preemptive obedience or a really strange submissiveness to me. Oh my, what happened to this forum. The web should be at least sometimes about this small, exciting leaks, if nobody gets harmed. That´s sometimes the best in live. And not about waiting when some glorius company is willing to share an -in reality completely useless and utter unimportant- information. To me this feels wrong and boosts a slightly weired feeling I have about this forum from the very beginning. Pics got deleted, links removed (think beo5 config tool), tvs sponsered for some magic price draw, invitations accepted and so on. I'm active in a lot of forums in the net, but never happend to find this kind of fraternization with the object of the forum's focus.

    Night, beoberlin

  • 10-07-2009 7:51 PM In reply to

    • 9 LEE
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-14-2007
    • Moderator - UK
    • Posts 5,223
    • Founder

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    Beoberlin - i respect everything you say of course.

    So - we have two ways to go as a site.  We can break blurred images, leaks and information that can get us alienated and genuinely disliked by B&O (think of the 'old days'), or we can have a site that has a good relationship with B&O (think prizes, gifts, trips to the factory and so on).

    We don't advertise all their products as 'perfect' and we complain like mad when B&O throw out Turkeys and expect us to be grateful.  I think we do a very good job of letting B&O know when we dislike a product, and i challenge anyone to find a single post that's slating or even mildly criticising a product that has been moderated.  That's the lifeblood of this site.. we are delighted when B&O release a great product, and we rant like hell when the roll out a pile of crap! I salute you all for doing that, and positively encourage you all to do so.  If i could snap a Serene shut on Torben's nose and drop a DVD2 on his foot - i'd do it. However, i'd buy him a beer afterwards as i liked the guy! (LOL)

    I do agree that releasing an image of the BV10 isn't exactly going to kill anyone, and such a small and blurry image isn't exactly going to leak all over the internet and create a fuss unless you have 90/90 vision and can out-focus an eagle - but i do think i owed it to B&O to at least discuss the image with the OP.  However, the OP decided to register in a fictitious name - so what am i to do - tell B&O that 'Peter Bang' of 'no street. Stuer' posted them so it's ok?  What do i say to that?

    B&O are on the ropes financially, they have a new product coming that they believe will be the 'new Avant' and they are excited about it.. and it could turn the company around in a very dark hour. They have poured a whole heap of money they don't have into a huge press launch, and (i suspect) a banned member has posted an image simply to create exactly what has happened.  He seems to have won on this occasion, and has registered a new account and sent me a PM to basically laugh at me. Great, just what i need.

    So, here we are - be a little 'renegade' site that spoils it for B&O or be a valuable opinion for the company we love and support. These are the two extremes - and if i'm honest, i'd love to be somewhere inbetween.

    That said, this site is all about its members and the moderating team - not me.  Yes, i get the sh*tty decisions to make, and yes - i deal with the fallout, but at the end of the day - without members, the site is nothing.  Feedback please!?

    Lee

     

    BeoWorld - Everything Bang & Olufsen

  • 10-07-2009 8:57 PM In reply to

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    jk1002:

    Personally I feel that the sketches have done more damage then this actual picture might do but that is a different story. If you google "Beovision 10" that and a picture of Trip English show up ....

    Alright, the cat's out of the bag. I AM THE BEOVISION 10!

    And Lee, for the record I think the balance in moderating here is about as flawless as you're going to see on the all of the internet. You'll never please everyone, but it sounds like even the most frustrated still really enjoy the site. Great work and thanks for the all the hard work. 

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 10-07-2009 8:59 PM In reply to

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    j0hnbarker:

    I think those in charge mustn't start to view these occasional flarings as irksome though, as at least it shows everyone out there in internet land is wide awake and has an opinion!

    This is true. Prior to such flareups, opinions on the internet were nearly undetectable.  

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 10-08-2009 1:31 AM In reply to

    • benjnz
    • Top 150 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • Auckland NZ
    • Posts 392
    • Gold Member

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    After my initial wtf are we censoring things now attitude... I have to admit that it's a storm in a teacup.

    Although I do feel sorry for moderators - an enjoyable position to be in most of the time, but hard work that is done well by them all. So a big grovelling thank you to Lee, Peter and the rest for doing such a great job here day after day.Yes -  thumbs up

    Then again as we can sometimes see, people do get the hairs on the back of their heads up on end and their job suddenly becomes pretty thankless.

    I don't see any issue with what they've done, the small picture had about the same chance of being seen as the new ring found x million miles off saturn Big Smile

    I think the litmus test of the future product must surely be that Peter has pre-ordered!

    If that doesn't tell you that the product is worth the wait/pre-ordering then nothing will Big Smile

  • 10-08-2009 1:58 AM In reply to

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    Dear Beoworld, You made the your next mistake! By justifying to the forum the deletion of my posting, you did post my credentials. So all third parties can read them. If I had used my actual credentials how save would these have been if you were confronted by real pressure of a third party? Anyway, how save are our credentials? Shouldn’t you rethink your privacy policy? For sure I will be extra cautious when I post something on this forum!
  • 10-08-2009 2:08 AM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-14-2007
    • South West, UK
    • Posts 2,360
    • Bronze Member

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    Sven_Peter:
    Dear Beoworld, You made the your next mistake! By justifying to the forum the deletion of my posting, you did post my credentials. So all third parties can read them. If I had used my actual credentials how save would these have been if you were confronted by real pressure of a third party? Anyway, how save are our credentials? Shouldn’t you rethink your privacy policy? For sure I will be extra cautious when I post something on this forum!

    Actually, he does have a point here. Irrespective of whether the owner thinks the address or details are fake/incorrect, they should *never* be posted on a public forum. That is a breach of personal rights. We all understand a forum has to be moderated - and I agree the picture should have been removed - but never justify the reasons, based on exposing the user their details.

  • 10-08-2009 2:17 AM In reply to

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    9 LEE:
    but i do think i owed it to B&O to at least discuss the image with the OP.

    No you don't. You could have taken that decision independently, that could have made sense and in accordance with the new B&O friendly orientation of the site. If B&O had complained for a breach of copyright, that could have made sense as well. But asking B&O's point of view... :-( 

    9 LEE:
    so what am i to do - tell B&O that 'Peter Bang' of 'no street. Stuer' posted them so it's ok?

    Why does it matter WHO posted the picture. So if the person had used his real name/detail, you'd have given them to B&O!!!?!!!?!! Great! Wonderful!

    Lee can you reassure us that you'd not reveal anyone's details unless you are legally obliged.

  • 10-08-2009 2:20 AM In reply to

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    moxxey:

     and I agree the picture should have been removed .

    Question: what was so special to that specific picture in comparison to the picture shown?

    (see http://forum.beoworld.org/forums/t/28881.aspx?PageIndex=3)

    Because it is still there!


  • 10-08-2009 3:01 AM In reply to

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    i wouldn't call it the new avant as the avant had it's own playback source , vhs then dvd, until bno bring out a true successor to that amazing tv , count me out

    what i want is a bv7 40 , that hides the wires and is c. £5-6k at the most

    i just fail to see how anyone can justify the £9k the bv7/40 costs

    popgear is grate™

  • 10-08-2009 3:26 AM In reply to

    • Puncher
    • Top 10 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 03-27-2007
    • Nr. Durham, NE England.
    • Posts 9,588
    • Founder

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    PhilLondon:

    9 LEE:
    but i do think i owed it to B&O to at least discuss the image with the OP.

    No you don't. You could have taken that decision independently, that could have made sense and in accordance with the new B&O friendly orientation of the site. If B&O had complained for a breach of copyright, that could have made sense as well. But asking B&O's point of view... :-( 

    9 LEE:
    so what am i to do - tell B&O that 'Peter Bang' of 'no street. Stuer' posted them so it's ok?

    Why does it matter WHO posted the picture. So if the person had used his real name/detail, you'd have given them to B&O!!!?!!!?!! Great! Wonderful!

    Lee can you reassure us that you'd not reveal anyone's details unless you are legally obliged.

    To be fair, I honestly believe Lee has the highest regard for personal security and truly wants site independance, however in this case he is dealing with a known "troublemaker", for want of a better word, who has been a member of the site several times before and it has ALWAYS ended in tears. He must lead a very sad life if he has to keep coming back here to try and cause mischief. (I may be wrong but I think there was something similar around the time of the BS5 launch).

    I would happily support all of the points raised against the site, were it regarding a regular member - but in this particular case, where the guy has an axe to grind and has joined specifically to cause unrest.....................I don't think so.

    Having provoked the argument, he's now laughing at us - I hope we've all been here long enough to see past his attempts at discrediting the site and it's administration, I personally would have deleted his member account before now.

     

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 10-08-2009 3:32 AM In reply to

    • Dillen
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-14-2007
    • Copenhagen / Denmark
    • Posts 5,008
    • Founder

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    Well put, Puncher.  Yes -  thumbs up

    Martin

  • 10-08-2009 3:49 AM In reply to

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    Fom the second the BV10 picture was posed Lee was always going to be open to criticism.

    I moderate a forum myself (nothing to do with B&O) and as soon as there is a whiff of controversy about a post  there is a likelihood of criticism if you take no action, and a near certainty of being criticised if you do.

    I do not believe that the original post was made to provide the members of the forum with a 'sneak peek' of the BV10. The 'freedom of speech' arguments are a diversion.  The way that this has been followed up (i.e.going straight to a public post questioning Beoworld's independence) has convinced me that the post was made specifically to cause the controversy and make things difficult for Lee.

    The moderators have my full support in deciding to remove it.

     

    Simon

     

  • 10-08-2009 3:53 AM In reply to

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    How to deceive the members of this forum? Your completely out of line. I am not the “trouble maker” your presuming. Beoworld has even a bigger problem the expected!
  • 10-08-2009 4:09 AM In reply to

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    Surely if there are potential copyright or ownership issues with a photograph/ posting the site owner has to protect himself by removing the item if he thinks there may be a legal issue. Most national on-line papers, for example, moderate anything you submit before they put it online. It's unlikely that this was a private photograph of a BV10 out on a test drive, but if  taken in a location where photos were forbidden, or  lifted from official B&O brochures/ sources then Beoworld could have been in big big legal/ financial trouble.

    In any case, I'm with the view that as enthusiasts we should be supporting any B&O official strategy to help them survive.

     

    Graham

    I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure. [W C Fields]

  • 10-08-2009 4:27 AM In reply to

    • 9 LEE
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-14-2007
    • Moderator - UK
    • Posts 5,223
    • Founder

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    PhilLondon:

    9 LEE:
    but i do think i owed it to B&O to at least discuss the image with the OP.

    No you don't. You could have taken that decision independently, that could have made sense and in accordance with the new B&O friendly orientation of the site. If B&O had complained for a breach of copyright, that could have made sense as well. But asking B&O's point of view... :-( 

    9 LEE:
    so what am i to do - tell B&O that 'Peter Bang' of 'no street. Stuer' posted them so it's ok?

    Why does it matter WHO posted the picture. So if the person had used his real name/detail, you'd have given them to B&O!!!?!!!?!! Great! Wonderful!

    Lee can you reassure us that you'd not reveal anyone's details unless you are legally obliged.

     

     

    PhilLondon - i suspect you've not re-read my original post, or indeed the other ones properly..  I never asked B&O's point of view, they approached me and asked me if i'd have a look at it and see if it had been posted with intent to spoil the launch.  I have never, and will never, divulge personal details on here - and i'm frankly disappointed that you had to even ask for my reassurance.

    Should i then also type a letter of apology to Peter Bang and post it to 'no-street, stuer, dk, 11111, 222222222' as you think it's a real name and address that i should not have 'made public'?

    Also, i did take the decision to removve the image independently. B&O did not ask me to remove it, they asked me to look at it and speak to the OP.  Unfortunately Peter Bang passed away in 1957 and John Edwards wasn't available to help me at such short notice, so i simply removed it.

    The OP is getting exactly what he wants, and has been badgering me under another alias for the last week by PM offering 'information' and 'help', followed by a goading PM being smug about the hoo-hah he's created on this thread.

    Lee

     

    BeoWorld - Everything Bang & Olufsen

  • 10-08-2009 5:47 AM In reply to

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    Sven_Peter:
    How to deceive the members of this forum? Your completely out of line. I am not the “trouble maker” your presuming. Beoworld has even a bigger problem the expected!

     

    But why don't you use your real adress and email??

  • 10-08-2009 5:49 AM In reply to

    • Daniel
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-17-2007
    • Svinarp, Sweden
    • Posts 1,284
    • Founder

    Re: How independant is Beoworld?

    Lee, I'm behind you to 100 %.

    As a member whos been around since beoworld Mk1, I like the new Beoworld. Even if we shall have a high ceiling in the forum, there still must be space left for the moderators to act. It's good we have a nice relation with B&O, but we shall of course stay independent.

    Of course we shall post pictures of upcoming releases, even if they sometimes are just guesses, as long as it's not copyrighted pictures. To "steal" a picture from B&O and post is not OK. As an owner Lee is somehow responsible for what is posted here.

    And if the reason to post is just to disturb and the poster hide behind a fake name, then just delete the post.

    Beovision LX5500, BeoCord V6000, BeoSound 9000, BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 3500, BeoLab 2000, BeoVox1, BeoCom 6000, Form1, LightControl 1

Page 2 of 7 (161 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next > ... Last »