in Search
Untitled Page

ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
READ ONLY FORUM

This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 01-05-2009 3:50 AM by MGBGTV8. 203 replies.
Page 5 of 9 (204 items) « First ... < Previous 3 4 5 6 7 Next > ... Last »
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • 12-22-2008 6:09 PM In reply to

    Re: Bang &amp;amp; Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    Oh jesus christ Sad

    Here are some freshly sanded Beovox 80.2's at the summer workshop.


    -mika

  • 12-22-2008 6:13 PM In reply to

    Re: Bang &amp;amp; Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    thanks mika!

    where's the snow?

    happy holidays! 

    • B&o bottle opener
  • 12-22-2008 6:27 PM In reply to

    Re: Bang &amp;amp; Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    There ought to be some two inches now - the pic was taken just about exactly six months ago...

    I just thought it would bring the discussion back closer to topic Stick out tongue

    Happy holidays as well, everybody!

    -mika

  • 12-22-2008 8:33 PM In reply to

    • benjnz
    • Top 150 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • Auckland NZ
    • Posts 392
    • Gold Member

    Re: Bang &amp;amp; Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    Well isn't this thread a bundle of joy and happyness this Xmas time Stick out tongue

    So thinking about share prices, GREAT I can take some of my redundancy money and buy shares while they're cheap! Big Smile

    Apart from that am sure B&O will do just fine - the gorge BV9 and their tellies will sell well, so will their Audio things, however I hope the BS5 sells well, although I have my doubts for now Indifferent

  • 12-23-2008 7:54 AM In reply to

    Re: Bang &amp; Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    Razlaw:
    1.. BS3 does NOT decode dolby hd or dts hd

    2. Decoding may be done in a blu-ray player

    3. if the player does the decoding, it decodes it into a multichannel linear pcm which the BS3 accepts via HDMI and does output. As I said, the BS3 will display that info.

    4. The only question is the maximum level, 48, 96 or 192 khz. The vast majority of blu-ray are 48khz so it is almost irrelevant whether the higher formats are output.

    These points are correct - my PS3, for example, cannot output TrueHD or DTS-MA as bitstream (i.e. without decoding it first).  What is output is the uncompressed lossless audio in PCM to whatever receiver is plugged in.  Per the HDMI spec, this only requires HDMI 1.1.  No further decoding is needed.  As a result, what you will hear is either the full lossless audio track, or sweet FA.  HDCP is really a non issue - if it was, you'd be seeing nothing as well as hearing a crap soundtrack/nothing.  If you have a PS3, hit 'select' and it will tell you exactly what it's outputting.

    It doesn't matter that B&O haven't specifically added that the device specifically supports PCM, as this is absolutely fundamental to what the receiver *does*.  Any format it does support as bitstream (DD, DTS) it would have to decode to PCM before converting to analogue to send to the speakers.  And what about the few blu-rays I have (music) that don't even HAVE a compressed HD audio track?  On one, there's either PCM 5.1 or PCM 2.0.  If it didn't support PCM, the receiver would be absoutely useless and you'd hear nothing from ANY music format.  Not to support it not only makes absoutely zero sense, it's pretty much an impossibility to suggest it might be the case.

  • 12-23-2008 8:59 AM In reply to

    Re: Bang &amp; Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    csmager:
    Razlaw:
    1.. BS3 does NOT decode dolby hd or dts hd

    2. Decoding may be done in a blu-ray player

    3. if the player does the decoding, it decodes it into a multichannel linear pcm which the BS3 accepts via HDMI and does output. As I said, the BS3 will display that info.

    4. The only question is the maximum level, 48, 96 or 192 khz. The vast majority of blu-ray are 48khz so it is almost irrelevant whether the higher formats are output.

    These points are correct - my PS3, for example, cannot output TrueHD or DTS-MA as bitstream (i.e. without decoding it first).  What is output is the uncompressed lossless audio in PCM to whatever receiver is plugged in.  Per the HDMI spec, this only requires HDMI 1.1.  No further decoding is needed.  As a result, what you will hear is either the full lossless audio track, or sweet FA.  HDCP is really a non issue - if it was, you'd be seeing nothing as well as hearing a crap soundtrack/nothing.  If you have a PS3, hit 'select' and it will tell you exactly what it's outputting.

    It doesn't matter that B&O haven't specifically added that the device specifically supports PCM, as this is absolutely fundamental to what the receiver *does*.  Any format it does support as bitstream (DD, DTS) it would have to decode to PCM before converting to analogue to send to the speakers.  And what about the few blu-rays I have (music) that don't even HAVE a compressed HD audio track?  On one, there's either PCM 5.1 or PCM 2.0.  If it didn't support PCM, the receiver would be absoutely useless and you'd hear nothing from ANY music format.  Not to support it not only makes absoutely zero sense, it's pretty much an impossibility to suggest it might be the case.

    Thank you! 

    Beovision 7-55 with Beolab 7-4, 9s and 4000s

    Beovision 10-40 with Beolab 1s and 6000s

    Beosound 1, 5, 2000, and 3000

    Beotime, Beotalk, Beocoms

  • 12-23-2008 12:53 PM In reply to

    Re: Bang & Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    Affineur said...

     

    I agree with your analysis as  far as why "average" consumers do not buy B&O, but this is actually the point. B&O are not marketing to "average" consumers, they are marketing primarily to design-centric audio-video enthusiasts. Yes the "average" consumer who wants to put up a too big panel in their livingroom (lounge) to watch sports, "reality" broadcast television, and bad action movies will not choose B&O. But someone who is interested in what I will call "fine living" which includes a significant focus on design and integration, will naturally gravitate towards B&O. Perhaps the decline in B&O sales is in part due to first-world society, in general, having less and less interest in the more sophisticated side of the home environment. I certainly am seeing more and more of this lack of sophistication.

     

              Holysheet Twatman!   Mate, you ARE the reason B&O are going down the toilet. I bet you wear a cravat to crap!

    Ask any B&O dealer on the planet to describe a B&O rep or staff member and I can guarantee they will describe YOU and your ''up your own ass'' attitude.

      The only people who can save B&O are the dealers. The problem is, B&O lost their grip on reality a long time ago and wont listen to them. In fact most dealers are treated like something B&O trod on getting out of the old Range Rover.

      Toodle pip, and remember to wipe...

  • 12-23-2008 1:05 PM In reply to

    • 355f
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-19-2007
    • Posts 655
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Bang &amp; Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    csmager:
    Razlaw:
    1.. BS3 does NOT decode dolby hd or dts hd

    2. Decoding may be done in a blu-ray player

    3. if the player does the decoding, it decodes it into a multichannel linear pcm which the BS3 accepts via HDMI and does output. As I said, the BS3 will display that info.

    4. The only question is the maximum level, 48, 96 or 192 khz. The vast majority of blu-ray are 48khz so it is almost irrelevant whether the higher formats are output.

    These points are correct - my PS3, for example, cannot output TrueHD or DTS-MA as bitstream (i.e. without decoding it first).  What is output is the uncompressed lossless audio in PCM to whatever receiver is plugged in.  Per the HDMI spec, this only requires HDMI 1.1.  No further decoding is needed.  As a result, what you will hear is either the full lossless audio track, or sweet FA.  HDCP is really a non issue - if it was, you'd be seeing nothing as well as hearing a crap soundtrack/nothing.  If you have a PS3, hit 'select' and it will tell you exactly what it's outputting.

    It doesn't matter that B&O haven't specifically added that the device specifically supports PCM, as this is absolutely fundamental to what the receiver *does*.  Any format it does support as bitstream (DD, DTS) it would have to decode to PCM before converting to analogue to send to the speakers.  And what about the few blu-rays I have (music) that don't even HAVE a compressed HD audio track?  On one, there's either PCM 5.1 or PCM 2.0.  If it didn't support PCM, the receiver would be absoutely useless and you'd hear nothing from ANY music format.  Not to support it not only makes absoutely zero sense, it's pretty much an impossibility to suggest it might be the case.

    We have been through all this before in one of the longest threads in beoworld history- I have been manufacturing product for the brands for ten years including BR for the major brands. It would be wonderful if HDMI was all it was cracked up to be- in the manufacturing world im afraid its a different story. In theory everything should work!

    Correction you will hear the fundamental sound track so to suggest you will hear nothing is not correct. Additionally, one can end up with dumbed down HD audio as a result of compliance issues and this is proven to be the case with all panasonic BR linked to BS3.

    The 'specification' of HDMI and its reverse  compatablity is not a prcise science im afraid- The BS3 does not support the output of full HD audio and the specs from B&O confirm this.

  • 12-23-2008 1:24 PM In reply to

    Re: Bang &amp; Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    355f:
    Correction you will hear the fundamental sound track so to suggest you will hear nothing is not correct. Additionally, one can end up with dumbed down HD audio as a result of compliance issues and this is proven to be the case with all panasonic BR linked to BS3.

    The 'specification' of HDMI and its reverse  compatablity is not a prcise science im afraid- The BS3 does not support the output of full HD audio and the specs from B&O confirm this.

    It will depend on the implementation - for a kick off, if the PS3 is connected to a non-compliant device, it will show absoutely nothing on the screen.  From this, you can deduce that if you're seeing anything, then its HDCP implementation has worked.

    I'm not sure what specs you're looking at that proclaim that the BS3 incompatible with high resolution PCM audio - none I can find even mention it.  Uncompressed standard Dolby Digital is likely to be at least 16-bit/48kHz (albeit from a lossy source), so the BS3 will have to support that at the very least.  Do you know for certain that it doesn't have 192kHz/24-bit DACS, like just about every other semi-decent AV receiver has for the last few years?

  • 12-23-2008 1:39 PM In reply to

    • 355f
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-19-2007
    • Posts 655
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Bang &amp; Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    csmager:
    355f:
    Correction you will hear the fundamental sound track so to suggest you will hear nothing is not correct. Additionally, one can end up with dumbed down HD audio as a result of compliance issues and this is proven to be the case with all panasonic BR linked to BS3.

    The 'specification' of HDMI and its reverse  compatablity is not a prcise science im afraid- The BS3 does not support the output of full HD audio and the specs from B&O confirm this.

    It will depend on the implementation - for a kick off, if the PS3 is connected to a non-compliant device, it will show absoutely nothing on the screen.  From this, you can deduce that if you're seeing anything, then it HDCP works.

    I'm not sure what specs you're looking at that proclaim that the BS3 incompatible with high resolution PCM audio - none I can find even mention it.  Uncompressed standard Dolby Digital is likely to be at least 16-bit/48kHz (albeit from a lossy source), so the BS3 will have to support that at the very least.  Do you know for certain that it doesn't have 192kHz/24-bit DACS, just about every other semi-decent AV receiver has for the last few years?

    Ok this has little to do with compliancy- obviously, if it was not at all compliant you get a blank screen which in fact is what transpired when the BS3 first came out when connected to a sky box.

    The issue really is how the receiver handles the incomming stream and what it does with it. In theory, reading all the internet data on the subject it leads one to believe that if a product is HDMI 1.1 then all is well. In fact if one looks at the receivers that maintain that they are capable of outputting HI DEF audio without any downconversion taking place they all happen to be HDMI 1.3 or higher and make a highlight of it in the specs!

    Thats not to say that there are not a small handful of receivers that are 1.1 that can output it when connected to a suitable product- the high end japanese being an example  - and it will clearly say that in all the specs- its a major selling point after all- I regret in the case of the BS3 it does not do - there maybe a difference- albeit slight but there is a downconversion process taking place.

    I have tested it with all the panasonic models- no joy and some sony products to- same story

    I wrote directly to B&O about this months and months ago asking them to confirm a third party BR player that will output HD audio without downconversion taking place- they simply must have tested a player to confirm the facts- then I would have taken said player to our lab and connected it to BS3 for confirmation.

    But B&O does not want to reveal said facts- enough said- to me a simple question- please tell me the player that when so connescted allows the BS3 to output FULL HD audio!

  • 12-23-2008 1:51 PM In reply to

    Re: Bang &amp; Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    355f:
    Ok this has little to do with compliancy- obviously, if it was not at all compliant you get a blank screen which in fact is what transpired when the BS3 first came out when connected to a sky box.

    The issue really is how the receiver handles the incomming stream and what it does with it. In theory, reading all the internet data on the subject it leads one to believe that if a product is HDMI 1.1 then all is well. In fact if one looks at the receivers that maintain that they are capable of outputting HI DEF audio without any downconversion taking place they all happen to be HDMI 1.3 or higher and make a highlight of it in the specs!

    Thats not to say that there are not a small handful of receivers that are 1.1 that can output it when connected to a suitable product- the high end japanese being an example  - and it will clearly say that in all the specs- its a major selling point after all- I regret in the case of the BS3 it does not do - there maybe a difference- albeit slight but there is a downconversion process taking place.

    I have tested it with all the panasonic models- no joy and some sony products to- same story

    I wrote directly to B&O about this months and months ago asking them to confirm a third party BR player that will output HD audio without downconversion taking place- they simply must have tested a player to confirm the facts- then I would have taken said player to our lab and connected it to BS3 for confirmation.

    But B&O does not want to reveal said facts- enough said- to me a simple question- please tell me the player that when so connescted allows the BS3 to output FULL HD audio!

    I will freely admit that I'm basing my opinion on how it is *supposed* to work, and not how it actually will work on these products in practice. 

    To this end, I'll stop arguing with you and give you the benefit of the doubt having claimed to have done the tests - I don't have a BS3 to test on, and nothing other than that will convince anyone! 

    I would agree that B&O refusing to answer the question is either a bit suspect, or the marketing department is reading it and is unable to answer or uninterested in answering the question.

    From what I've read on here, the DSS module is being changed in BS3 Mk II - maybe this will change something?!

  • 12-23-2008 1:59 PM In reply to

    • 355f
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-19-2007
    • Posts 655
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Bang &amp; Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    csmager:
    355f:
    Ok this has little to do with compliancy- obviously, if it was not at all compliant you get a blank screen which in fact is what transpired when the BS3 first came out when connected to a sky box.

    The issue really is how the receiver handles the incomming stream and what it does with it. In theory, reading all the internet data on the subject it leads one to believe that if a product is HDMI 1.1 then all is well. In fact if one looks at the receivers that maintain that they are capable of outputting HI DEF audio without any downconversion taking place they all happen to be HDMI 1.3 or higher and make a highlight of it in the specs!

    Thats not to say that there are not a small handful of receivers that are 1.1 that can output it when connected to a suitable product- the high end japanese being an example  - and it will clearly say that in all the specs- its a major selling point after all- I regret in the case of the BS3 it does not do - there maybe a difference- albeit slight but there is a downconversion process taking place.

    I have tested it with all the panasonic models- no joy and some sony products to- same story

    I wrote directly to B&O about this months and months ago asking them to confirm a third party BR player that will output HD audio without downconversion taking place- they simply must have tested a player to confirm the facts- then I would have taken said player to our lab and connected it to BS3 for confirmation.

    But B&O does not want to reveal said facts- enough said- to me a simple question- please tell me the player that when so connescted allows the BS3 to output FULL HD audio!

    I will freely admit that I'm basing my opinion on how it is *supposed* to work, and not how it actually will work on these products in practice. 

    To this end, I'll stop arguing with you and give you the benefit of the doubt having claimed to have done the tests - I don't have a BS3 to test on, and nothing other than that will convince anyone! 

    I would agree that B&O refusing to answer the question is either a bit suspect, or the marketing department is reading it and is unable to answer or uninterested in answering the question.

    From what I've read on here, the DSS module is being changed in BS3 Mk II - maybe this will change something?!

     

    Its a question that not just I have asked but many indiviudals on here both to technical and to sales- and in all cases you neerv get a direct answer.

    Now if they change the module- then all may well be ok!! and you can bet that module will have 1.3 or above compliancy

  • 12-23-2008 2:50 PM In reply to

    Re: Bang &amp; Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    355f, when you say the internet has it all wrong about HDMI, does that include HDMI.org? HDMI :: Resources :: Knowledge Base  The specific question  about HDMI versions and high def audio is asked and answered. Specifically, all versions, including version 1.1 will transmit decoded Dolby TruHD and DTS HD Master. It specifically says 1.3 is not needed.

    Further, it says all versions of HDMI support 8 channels, 192khz 24 bit sound.

     

    Beovision 7-55 with Beolab 7-4, 9s and 4000s

    Beovision 10-40 with Beolab 1s and 6000s

    Beosound 1, 5, 2000, and 3000

    Beotime, Beotalk, Beocoms

  • 12-23-2008 3:28 PM In reply to

    • 355f
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-19-2007
    • Posts 655
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Bang &amp; Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    Razlaw:

    355f, when you say the internet has it all wrong about HDMI, does that include HDMI.org? HDMI :: Resources :: Knowledge Base  The specific question  about HDMI versions and high def audio is asked and answered. Specifically, all versions, including version 1.1 will transmit decoded Dolby TruHD and DTS HD Master. It specifically says 1.3 is not needed.

    Further, it says all versions of HDMI support 8 channels, 192khz 24 bit sound.

     

    Just as the DAB forum  was set up to advance Digital radio as the new quality medium and was pushed by the BBC- now the bit rates are down, its worse than FM by a long way and about to be superceeded- are the founders of the DAB  movement going to admit to that? the aim was to pull as many manufacturers into DAB as they could and make money.

    This is an experiment I have done on a few occasions.

    Take an HDMI 1.1 receiver ( where it makes no specific mention of HD audio capability in the specs) and marry it to a suitable BR player that can output HD audio and have a listen.

    Next take an HDMI 1.3 receiver where it clearly states in the specs that it will output HD audio and its derivatives- and with a suitable disc the difference is worlds apart.- now compare that to the BS3- clearly the BS3 is not doing the same thing and ive tried it with 6 models of BR .

    It is up to each manufacturer as to how they implement the standard and as B&O dont make there own blue ray player they would simply state which BR player has been tested with BS3 to produce the results that allow hi def audio with no downconversion.- its a simple as that- no smoke screen is required- just tell us the model of BR that confirms the facts.

    Onto HDMI as a general topic, there are still many examples of incompatability between different manufacturers if one believes HDMI org this would not be the case would it? Even mainstream brands have HDMI shortcommings! it is a nasty copy protection system with many limitations

     

  • 12-23-2008 4:31 PM In reply to

    Re: Bang &amp; Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    i agree with 355f , hdmi is an utter nightmare

    i have an hdmi extender , half my hdmi things don't work with it and despite all my internet explorations , nobody does 

    i was reading over at avforums how a chap had bough a brand new sony x series , a sony amp and a ps3 and they for god knows what reason wouldn't work together

     maybe scart / phono wasn't so bad after all ? 

    although i DO know bno used the superior din connections for many years - as did Naim ( think they still do ? ) 

    popgear is grate™

  • 12-23-2008 6:42 PM In reply to

    Re: Bang &amp; Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    355f:
    Razlaw:

    355f, when you say the internet has it all wrong about HDMI, does that include HDMI.org? HDMI :: Resources :: Knowledge Base  The specific question  about HDMI versions and high def audio is asked and answered. Specifically, all versions, including version 1.1 will transmit decoded Dolby TruHD and DTS HD Master. It specifically says 1.3 is not needed.

    Further, it says all versions of HDMI support 8 channels, 192khz 24 bit sound.

     

    Just as the DAB forum  was set up to advance Digital radio as the new quality medium and was pushed by the BBC- now the bit rates are down, its worse than FM by a long way and about to be superceeded- are the founders of the DAB  movement going to admit to that? the aim was to pull as many manufacturers into DAB as they could and make money.

    This is an experiment I have done on a few occasions.

    Take an HDMI 1.1 receiver ( where it makes no specific mention of HD audio capability in the specs) and marry it to a suitable BR player that can output HD audio and have a listen.

    Next take an HDMI 1.3 receiver where it clearly states in the specs that it will output HD audio and its derivatives- and with a suitable disc the difference is worlds apart.- now compare that to the BS3- clearly the BS3 is not doing the same thing and ive tried it with 6 models of BR .

    It is up to each manufacturer as to how they implement the standard and as B&O dont make there own blue ray player they would simply state which BR player has been tested with BS3 to produce the results that allow hi def audio with no downconversion.- its a simple as that- no smoke screen is required- just tell us the model of BR that confirms the facts.

    Onto HDMI as a general topic, there are still many examples of incompatability between different manufacturers if one believes HDMI org this would not be the case would it? Even mainstream brands have HDMI shortcommings! it is a nasty copy protection system with many limitations

     

    What you say makes sense. However, I tried my own experiment. I put a DVD version of Casino Royale in the BV7 DVD player. I then put the Blu-Ray version in the Sony Blu-Ray player. I then listened to the same scene three different ways. Dolby Digital from the DVD, Dolby Digital from the Blu-Ray, and uncompressed 48khz PCM from the Blu-Ray. The results?  The two Dolby Digital versions sound essentially the same. The PCM version was astonishingly  better. The difference was amazing. I would compare the difference between the Dolby Digital and the PCM as similiar to the visual difference between an old VHS tape and a Blu-Ray. I don't know if HDMI.org is correct, if 355F is correct, or what the BS3 is actually doing. What I do know is the Uncompressed PCM track is extraordinarily better than Dolby Digital (from either disc).

     

    Beovision 7-55 with Beolab 7-4, 9s and 4000s

    Beovision 10-40 with Beolab 1s and 6000s

    Beosound 1, 5, 2000, and 3000

    Beotime, Beotalk, Beocoms

  • 12-23-2008 7:03 PM In reply to

    Re: Bang &amp; Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    afaik dd is a  compressed format

    dolby tru hd and dts master hd etc are utterly uncompromised  in the audio dept

     

    ( as long as yer ears are up to it :) ) 

    popgear is grate™

  • 12-23-2008 8:17 PM In reply to

    Re: Bang &amp; Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

     

    (takes off cravat and lays it solemnly next to toilet) 

     

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 12-24-2008 5:21 AM In reply to

    Re: Bang & Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    oops Blank uncultured unrefined post Big Smile

  • 12-24-2008 5:38 AM In reply to

    Re: Bang & Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    Affineur:
    moxxey says:

    "The problem is that the average home user only wants to watch basic TV and view a movie from time to time. They don't care about 7.1 surround sound and so on.

    For this reason, it's way too easy to go out and buy a fairly decent Samsung 40" LCD for around £700. That's the main reason B&O kit now looks too expensive as the average home user - even those with a high disposable income - can't justify the cost of a B&O TV, even with all these so-called 'technologies'."

     

    I agree with your analysis as  far as why "average" consumers do not buy B&O, but this is actually the point. B&O are not marketing to "average" consumers, they are marketing primarily to design-centric audio-video enthusiasts. Yes the "average" consumer who wants to put up a too big panel in their livingroom (lounge) to watch sports, "reality" broadcast television, and bad action movies will not choose B&O. But someone who is interested in what I will call "fine living" which includes a significant focus on design and integration, will naturally gravitate towards B&O. Perhaps the decline in B&O sales is in part due to first-world society, in general, having less and less interest in the more sophisticated side of the home environment. I certainly am seeing more and more of this lack of sophistication.

    As far as price, this 10X fantasy that has been discussed at length in other threads is clearly not the case. Many examples have been given about price differentials (particularly from Razlaw). First of all, as has been pointed out many times, the price differential is not 10X and secondly when comparisons are made the design and integration side has not been taken into account. Design costs and it is clear that Sony, etc. are not putting significant focus on design.... just look at the products. My analysis has shown a 4X premium on B&O (for  the equivalent technology) and my experience is that once the products are in place and being used (for perhaps 20 years I might add) the premium is well worth it.

    Back to B&O and the net loss, I do not think that there will be a single discretionary consumer product producer who does not show a loss in the next few quarters, so let's not be such doomsayers..... at least yet.

     I bet you are fun at christmas Affineur! Party!!! Anyway just to point a few thinsg in your argument, Firstly you must have had a wry ironic grin on your face when you talk about B&O systems being 'sophisticated' they look pretty, in the main, yes but they certainly are not sophisticated. Mind you you talk about your system being 20 years old and I give you that for the time that would be a sophisticated system. However what really annoys me is that you talk about stereotypical Bang & Olufsen customers being in to fine living and I am guessing port and brandy, Soooooooooo Does that mean all the classy Rap artists and sports stars (adapted from footballers and WAGS for our amercian audience) we see on cribs, documentaries etc with their Bang & Olufsen systems have no interest in sports, action films or reality shows. I am guessing when you hit a wage bracket of $X or £X then you leave all personal taste at the door and become what has been deemed 'appropriate' living for that wage bracket. I think that is a pile of Beosound 2! We have many many millionaires on our books and none of them slot nicely into that category, we also have many many wannabe millionaires on our books who do, However image is everything for most people.

    Your system may be twnety years old and a excellant purchase and I shall give you that Bang & Olufsen products and the market place in 1988 was vastly different to 2008, you have also lived with your system for 20 years and learned its good points and bad points, on a side note you would not believe how many people do not understand the universal signs of play fast forward, rewind and stop on a DVD players remote when they have been using the exact same buttons on their video remote since Beta max got beaten down with a soggy rental stick. So I am betting if you Fast forward ( Thats the small double arrow button, no not the up arrow, the double arrow, pointing to the side, ah there we go!) to 2008 as you buying your system, with you possibly being twenty years younger and twenty years less all fine livinged up! the system you buy now will not get as glowing reports on cyber beoworld 3D chat room in 2028. Look at avant owners, no complaints about the TV at all apart from its not flat, and my trade in value is WHAT???? Whereas Beovision 7 owners, answers on a postcard about issues with playback, software, HD blah blah blah.

    Sorry I tend to rant but your snooty bang & olufsenesque ivory tower mentality really annoys me, heres an informal vote, anyone who reads this tell me if they predominently enjoy the following you can choose one : watch sport, Watch reality shows, Watch bad action movies, or go punting on the thames with cucumber sandwiches and Criquet after tea.

    Note to reader :please excuse any bad english or grammer I watch sports, am partial to a good bad movie (anything from the eighties or Any Chuck Norris are fine vintages) and occasionally glance at Reality shows (except I'm a celebrity, its not a happy place) so I am not that refined or educated, However I do have Pate at christmas which I believe is Dead classy ain't it?

    BS

  • 12-24-2008 8:54 AM In reply to

    Re: Bang &amp; Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    Flappo The Grate:

    afaik dd is a  compressed format

    dolby tru hd and dts master hd etc are utterly uncompromised  in the audio dept

     

    ( as long as yer ears are up to it :) ) 

    What is your point? I understand DD is compressed. Dolby Tru HD and DTS Master HD  are compressed to save space on the disc, and thus need to be decoded. Once uncompressed they are PCM. An uncompressed Dolby Tru HD is identical to a PCM track. They are three different ways of getting a lossless track identical to the studio master to the speakers. Dolby and DTS merely take up less space on the disc.  Outputing DD Tru-HD from a player that decodes it produces the same output as if the track was uncompressed PCM on the disc in the first place.

    My point was that the compressed DD did not sound as good as the uncompressed PCM. This is exactly what it should be if the player and the BV7 are processing and outputting uncompressed PCM.  

    Beovision 7-55 with Beolab 7-4, 9s and 4000s

    Beovision 10-40 with Beolab 1s and 6000s

    Beosound 1, 5, 2000, and 3000

    Beotime, Beotalk, Beocoms

  • 12-24-2008 9:36 AM In reply to

    Re: Bang & Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    (self-consciously swallows last bite of cucumber sandwich, furtively attempts to cover gold monograms on house slippers)  

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 12-27-2008 4:56 AM In reply to

    Re: Bang & Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    Ahh...   Bikerscotty  and Tripenglish, top class Big Smile   The thread rages on around us though.
  • 12-28-2008 3:29 AM In reply to

    Re: Bang & Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    Hi guys, I have followed your discussion about IF BV7-40 Mark III (BS3) will support multichannel PCM at 96khz/24bit at all channels! This is the main question IF it will fully support decoded Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD sound from a Bluray player.

    Earlier this automn I asked Struer this questions and got the following answers thru e-mail:

    Read the mail-correspendence from the botton and up. This answers from struer says that Beosystem 3 will support UNCOMPRESSED PCM-SOUND at 96 khz/24bit at all channels. And because Dolby True-HD and DTS-HD is decoded to Uncompressed PCM, if it is decoded in the BR-player, = BV 7-40 mark III and Beosystem 3 WILL be able to transport already decoded HD-audio without any downcompression. Some of you says that BS3 does "something" with the PCM-sound and therfore not getting full HD-audio output. B&O says another thing according to my answer from B&O.

    Have you noticed that with the new Sw 5.0 threre are and "sound adjustment"-menu in the "customer-menu". In this new "sound-adjustment-menu" you can adjust if you want Dynamic compression on or off. It is off in default-mode. Read my questions and answer from B&O-Struer below:

    Regards
    Martin

     Subject

     

     


     

     

     

     

     

     

     Customer (Martin Ström)

    13/08/2008 03.55 PM

     Subject

    PCM lyd Beovision 7-40 markIII (Beosystem 3)

     

     Discussion Thread

     Response (Mette Krabbe Helmholt)

    14/08/2008 03.21 PM

    Hi again,

    Yes it will.

    Kind regards
    Bang & Olufsen a/s

    Mette Krabbe Helmholt
    BeoCare


    This email and any attachments contain confidential and/or privileged information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. Please notify the sender and delete this message if you are not the intended recipient or if you have received this email by an error. Any copying, disclosure or distribution of this message or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited.

     Customer (Martin Ström)

    14/08/2008 03.10 PM

    Hi, Thank you for your reply. Will it also support 96khz/24bit at all channels? Regards
    Martin


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    FRÅN: BeoCare [mailto:
    bogo@mailuk.custhelp.com]
    SKICKAT: den 14 augusti 2008 15:02
    TILL: Ström, Martin
    ÄMNE: PCM lyd Beovision 7-40 markIII (Beosystem 3) [Incident: 080813-000136]

     Response (Mette Krabbe Helmholt)

    14/08/2008 03.01 PM

    Dear Mr Ström,

    The BeoVision 7-40 MKIII will support the uncompressed PDM signal on all channels.

    Kind regards
    Bang & Olufsen a/s

    Mette Krabbe Helmholt
    BeoCare


    This email and any attachments contain confidential and/or privileged information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. Please notify the sender and delete this message if you are not the intended recipient or if you have received this email by an error. Any copying, disclosure or distribution of this message or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited.

     Customer (Martin Ström)

    13/08/2008 03.55 PM

    I have to know another technical answer from you about Multichannel PCM.

    Does Beovision 7-40 MarkIII (or BS3) handle multichannel pcm at 96khz/24bit at all channels, when it receive this signal through HDMI-cable from a Bluray-player? I can refrase the question: If I have a Blurayplayer that will decode the new HD-coedes (DolbyTrue HD and DTS-HD) and this decoded sound is sendt as Multichannel pcm to the BV7-40, will the TV handle this PCM-signal uncompressed at all channels?

    I hope you understand my question. If the answer to my question is YES, then BV7-40 will output the new HD-audio (already decoded sound) to the speakers. This would be very nice.

    I hope to get an answer from some of your technical staff who know this subject.

    Regards
    Martin Ström
    Sweden




    Beolab 5 with sw 3.0,  BV7-55 3D without Bluray(MK II), Beolab 7-4, Beolab 4000 MKII, Beolab 3500, Beovox CX100, Beosound 9000 mkIII, Cabinett 2054, Beo4 MKII, Oppo BDP-93 Blurayplayer (B&O-version)

  • 12-28-2008 4:40 AM In reply to

    • 355f
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-19-2007
    • Posts 655
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Bang & Olufsen sees FY loss on weak pre-Xmas sales

    martin01:

    Hi guys, I have followed your discussion about IF BV7-40 Mark III (BS3) will support multichannel PCM at 96khz/24bit at all channels! This is the main question IF it will fully support decoded Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD sound from a Bluray player.

    Earlier this automn I asked Struer this questions and got the following answers thru e-mail:

    Read the mail-correspendence from the botton and up. This answers from struer says that Beosystem 3 will support UNCOMPRESSED PCM-SOUND at 96 khz/24bit at all channels. And because Dolby True-HD and DTS-HD is decoded to Uncompressed PCM, if it is decoded in the BR-player, = BV 7-40 mark III and Beosystem 3 WILL be able to transport already decoded HD-audio without any downcompression. Some of you says that BS3 does "something" with the PCM-sound and therfore not getting full HD-audio output. B&O says another thing according to my answer from B&O.

    Have you noticed that with the new Sw 5.0 threre are and "sound adjustment"-menu in the "customer-menu". In this new "sound-adjustment-menu" you can adjust if you want Dynamic compression on or off. It is off in default-mode. Read my questions and answer from B&O-Struer below:

    Regards
    Martin

     Subject


     

     

     

     Customer (Martin Ström)

    13/08/2008 03.55 PM

     Subject

    PCM lyd Beovision 7-40 markIII (Beosystem 3)

     Discussion Thread

     Response (Mette Krabbe Helmholt)

    14/08/2008 03.21 PM

    Hi again,

    Yes it will.

    Kind regards
    Bang & Olufsen a/s

    Mette Krabbe Helmholt
    BeoCare


    This email and any attachments contain confidential and/or privileged information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. Please notify the sender and delete this message if you are not the intended recipient or if you have received this email by an error. Any copying, disclosure or distribution of this message or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited.

     Customer (Martin Ström)

    14/08/2008 03.10 PM

    Hi, Thank you for your reply. Will it also support 96khz/24bit at all channels? Regards
    Martin


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    FRÅN: BeoCare [mailto:
    bogo@mailuk.custhelp.com]
    SKICKAT: den 14 augusti 2008 15:02
    TILL: Ström, Martin
    ÄMNE: PCM lyd Beovision 7-40 markIII (Beosystem 3) [Incident: 080813-000136]

     Response (Mette Krabbe Helmholt)

    14/08/2008 03.01 PM

    Dear Mr Ström,

    The BeoVision 7-40 MKIII will support the uncompressed PDM signal on all channels.

    Kind regards
    Bang & Olufsen a/s

    Mette Krabbe Helmholt
    BeoCare


    This email and any attachments contain confidential and/or privileged information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. Please notify the sender and delete this message if you are not the intended recipient or if you have received this email by an error. Any copying, disclosure or distribution of this message or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited.

     Customer (Martin Ström)

    13/08/2008 03.55 PM

    I have to know another technical answer from you about Multichannel PCM.

    Does Beovision 7-40 MarkIII (or BS3) handle multichannel pcm at 96khz/24bit at all channels, when it receive this signal through HDMI-cable from a Bluray-player? I can refrase the question: If I have a Blurayplayer that will decode the new HD-coedes (DolbyTrue HD and DTS-HD) and this decoded sound is sendt as Multichannel pcm to the BV7-40, will the TV handle this PCM-signal uncompressed at all channels?

    I hope you understand my question. If the answer to my question is YES, then BV7-40 will output the new HD-audio (already decoded sound) to the speakers. This would be very nice.

    I hope to get an answer from some of your technical staff who know this subject.

    Regards
    Martin Ström
    Sweden




    Hi again- yes it will-  sounds like a very technical response and fills me with confidence that this information can be relied upon despite realities to the contrary.

     

    You now need to go back to this paragon of technical information and ask specifically which player when so connected gives these results- they seem to indicate that any player will give these results- NOT TRUE im afraid

Page 5 of 9 (204 items) « First ... < Previous 3 4 5 6 7 Next > ... Last »