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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 11-06-2008 11:59 PM by guillaume. 85 replies.
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  • 11-03-2008 5:48 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    Moxxey,

    Be careful about claims of a "better" solution. That is highly subjective. I'm as familiar with the BeoSound 5 at this point as I am with the BeoSound 4, and I have to say that for a customer with my profile, the BeoSound 5 is the best. It's simple, beautiful, physicall robust, and the software is a marvel considering the garbage that B&O have released previously.

    I have tried my hand at the iPod touch remote with AirPorts express and all such malarky. It works. That's not in dispute, but the quality of the sound is lousy, the setup requires more technical ability than any high-end B&O customer I've ever met, and frankly I've never been a fan of using the iPhone as an iPod or a remote. Requires too many of my senses to be involved. All other systems are either wildly more expensive or excruciatingly limiting. 

    For a customer of means in their early thirties or younger, the BeoSound 5 might be a bit of a puzzle. But, for our core customers (generally older, wealthier, busier, less concerned about bits and bytes) the BeoSound 5 is a wet dream. It allows them to gain the convenience of digital content but with the higher level of performance and supreme ease of interaction.

    Cheaper? Sure. You got me there. Enjoy the savings!

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 11-03-2008 5:52 PM In reply to

    • Philippe
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    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    I think we somehow loose the track here discussing hypothetical technical capabilities of this BeoSound 5 : but it's because we're aficionados, so let's indulge..

    However, the key point of a B&O product for the great majority of B&O buyers is : is this product simple enough to be used smoothly and easily everytime? And does it have this undefinable wow factor, this difficult mix of technical beauty and elegance?

    From what we have seen and experienced, digital products released by B&O are not what we could call chefs d'oeuvre. The ease of use of a BM1? Hmm not sure... For the good spirit, I will forget the now RIP Serene, Serenata and other digital devices.

    Soooo... Based on the BS5 specs, and pictures of it, I can foretell that this BS5 will be for sure the best digital realization of the danish brand.

    But :

    1/ will it be enough (tech specs and user friendliness) compared to the challengers?

    2/ And won't it be too much (price) compared to the same challengers?

    It's just a matter of time now..

    Philippe

  • 11-03-2008 8:18 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    Philippe,

    I agree.  It's just a matter of time until we find out about the Beosound 5.  My dealer suggested I would have to wait as long as 6 months to get a BS5.  In the meantime, we will have some very long discussions about specs, value and is it really a true B&O product.  Since I am convinced that I want a Beosound, my only problem is deciding which room I will put it in.  What a decision! 

     

    Trip,

    The iPhone is the best remote for playing iTunes in a linked room with speakers and no TV.  It is truly 2 way.  Finally I think there are many B&O customers under 30 who have a lot of technical expertise especially in this forum.  You are sure to find out.

    Beosound 5 BL9 BC2 BL8000 Beovision 7 BL6002  BL11 

     

  • 11-03-2008 8:50 PM In reply to

    • Dave
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    • Brisbane, Australia
    • Posts 2,328
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    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    bayerische:
    wonderfulelectric:

     Just how many of you are 100% happy with your full B&O system right now? 

     

    I'm 100% happy right now. 

    This is off topic, but the question is really good i'm posting it in the general forum

    “Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of intelligent effort.”

    Your health and well-being comes first and fore-most.

     

     

  • 11-04-2008 1:51 AM In reply to

    • benjnz
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    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    TripEnglish:

    For a customer of means in their early thirties or younger, the BeoSound 5 might be a bit of a puzzle. But, for our core customers (generally older, wealthier, busier, less concerned about bits and bytes) the BeoSound 5 is a wet dream. It allows them to gain the convenience of digital content but with the higher level of performance and supreme ease of interaction.

    Cheaper? Sure. You got me there. Enjoy the savings!

    I rest my case, as I said for those reading the magazines, wandering past a store or looking at a friends system - it does what  it should (hopefully) and expensively gorgeous with it am sure.

    It's what B&O do for their core customers. Coz we like fiddling we're arguably not the typical B&O core customers.

    And after all so far am sure the core customers are happy with their purchases.

    I'd not worry too much about what music files it can and cannot play, for us great unwashed there's BeoPort and iTunes  ...

  • 11-04-2008 2:46 AM In reply to

    • benjnz
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    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    Oh I see they have the website on an updating holding page
  • 11-04-2008 2:54 AM In reply to

    • moxxey
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    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    TripEnglish:

    Be careful about claims of a "better" solution.

    I never claimed 'better'. I just said that it could be more wise to invest your bucks in other B&O equipment and use another system to stream and manage your audio.

    The quality of the sound from an Airport Express setup will depend on how you've ripped your audio in the first place. Trip, that's a rather bizarre statement to make - indeed, the Airport Express are based around 802.11n, guaranteeing you the strongest possible wireless network and include a digital out, which means you could connect directly to your BL5's and so on.

    Using your iPod Touch as a remote couldn't be easier. Simply press 'Signal' or 'Apple Remote', choose your music and speakers, go. What's more difficult than that?

    If my Beosound 5 is in my sitting room and I'm really tired after playing sport for a couple of hours, the last thing I want to do is get up to forward to another track or try and use my Beo4 to locate another track. I don't want to get up and handle the music myself. Where's the convenience you talk about? How's that conveninent? It's going to be a pain in the ass.

    You also claim that people above, say, 30+ will love this product. Not necessarily so. Most people I know 40+ stick on one CD, listen through and then, perhaps, choose another. They do NOT want to rip their audio from their computer. They do not want to have to somehow drag their ripped audio from their computer to their Beosound 5 etc etc.

    Trip, you're a good sales person both on and offline. Not totally convincing though.

  • 11-04-2008 4:17 AM In reply to

    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    Trip, Moxxey,

    I am currently using the "Apple" solution similar to yours, and I am pleased with it and it. However, I will probably buy a Beosound 5 as I prefer a complete integration, even if I lose a few features.

    p.

     

  • 11-04-2008 6:11 AM In reply to

    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    I am going to wait to BS5 is launched prior to commenting on the actual product, but I thought that I might offer some thoughts for all to consider regarding B&O brand positioning.

    After reading much of the speculation and frustrations on this thread.... my opinion is that as a brand B&O is at a cross roads....

    I think that what many have not realised, is that B&O is no longer the technological (especially digital) leader in the Hi Fi market... in my opinion this is basically a situation of sheer numbers, for every designer, engineer and technician that B&O has working on R&D, each of the other major mass market brands probably has 10s if not 100s..all producing new products faster than the market is basically able to to buy them. There is no way to really to compete on this level as a boutique luxury brand, and we must remember also this is a very different market than 20years ago.

    I think that B&O decision to concentrate on core products is a very positive move, as they can't be all things to all people... But I think perhaps that they should consider the following brand positioning issues.

     1. Brand perception - B&O already is held in high regard based on past product successes, BUT products don't necessarily have to be always 'cutting edge' and the 'latest in technology' ...which I feel some expect....but they do have to be amoungst the best. 

    2. Focus on being the best 'luxury' Hi Fi brand in the world. This means designing beautiful componants capable of producing superb sound reproduction, with ease of use, using the highest quality materials and componants.

    3. As a 'boutique luxury' brand, harness the best possible technology developments from around the world in Hi Fi (similar to what they did with BL5 . . . they outsourced as I understand it) and talior them to its unique brand 'beo-ness' to align with the brands core values / strategies. There is no need to ' re invent the wheel so to speak' but continue to make the best damn wheel they can!

    4. Truely understand the demographic of their customer base... and know what they want.

    I think, that without realising their limitations they may tarnish their reputation which has been built over decades by continueing to release products that the market preceives is behind the technology curve, compared to other products in the marketplace that are sometimes a fraction of the cost and which are easily updated/ replaced...(this is my understanding/interpretation of many of the comments contained in this thread).

    Look forward to others thoughts on this... 

     

     

     

     

  • 11-04-2008 7:45 AM In reply to

    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    Moxxey, 

    Just to be clear, you specifically used the word 'better.'

    In America, we're having an election right now. Though I get the idea that most of the participants here are from the UK I assume you're reasonably familiar with our two candidates. I bring this up as one is depending on a passionate and energetic "youth vote" to put him over the top. This group strongly self-identifies politically and have a tendency to affect polling data. The problem is that on election day, most don't vote!

    Especially at this time of year I can't help but to draw the comparison between youth voters and forum members! Now I know that many of us are proud B&O owners and some curate some fairly large personal collections. However, I don't see anyone like you in my stores. My actual clients, the ones who hand over their credit cards for full price items and keep my store in the black, are of totally different minds than what I hear on here. Now I do have clients in real life that have points of view like the ones on the forums, but they're the ones who want 30% discounts, who buy off eBay, and who buy second, third, and fourth hand. They're never satisfied, constantly confused, always "making up their minds." I generally wish them bon chance and let them wander the internet for deals.  

    Honestly, if you can listen to a pair of BeoLab 3s or BeoLab 9s plugged into a headphone jack on a $99 wifi router that has to be reset 2 or 3 times a month, that's fine. I use the crisp language not to deride your (or anyone's) choice of personal setups, but to point out that Bang & Olufsen, and many other hi-fi brands, will always have a place in the market providing mature bullet-proof solutions.

    At the end of the day, I don't care if some people aren't sold. That's bound to happen when you build from a strong point of view. The issue is that if Henry Ford asked people what they wanted he'd have built a faster horse. Consumers' needs are based on available products and not the other way around. As we present solutions that are easy to use, perform superbly, look beautiful, and last forever, people will adopt our take on those solutions. We're like custom cabinetry versus modular cabinetry. You either get it or you don't. You either buy it or you don't. If we were a competitively priced product with conventional features and benefits you wouldn't want us. 

     

     

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 11-04-2008 7:52 AM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
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    • South West, UK
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    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    TripEnglish:

    Just to be clear, you specifically used the word 'better.'

    In America, we're having an election right now. Though I get the idea that most of the participants here are from the UK I assume you're reasonably familiar with our two candidates.

    Now, Trip, you're rambling. We'll see what happens when it's released. I've given you my viewpoint.

  • 11-04-2008 7:58 AM In reply to

    • Roger
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    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    They did provide bullet-proof solutions back in the BeoGram-days. Today I have a BeoSystem 3-based tv that switches off when it feels like it, that can't handle the power on/off for the STB when connected via HDMI - and the built-in BeoMedia 1 is way too slow and fragile if you load it up with your CD-collection. And it is all software related. Sure, the BeoSound 5 will be nice to look at and have that feel and touch we love with B&O products. But they need to start making bullet-proof solutions.

    Roger

  • 11-04-2008 8:01 AM In reply to

    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    C'mon Moxxey! Rambling is one of my greatest joys! You can't deprive me of that 

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 11-04-2008 8:03 AM In reply to

    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    Trip, you're taking the problem at one point in time: Now.  But we have followed the brand for many years.

    I think the problem comes from the fact that the prices have not always been that high in comparaison to other brands.

    We were once part of the potential buyers... and B&O has moved the target. So we still like the brand, wouldn't like to switch to anything else but can't afford it! => Frustration.

    If I had just known the brand today I wouldn't even bother. But now that I have a system, I can only complete it with other B&O elements if I want to preserve the B&O advantages.

    p.

  • 11-04-2008 8:14 AM In reply to

    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    Hi p.:

    I' currently using an Apple solution as well. My Apple TV (controlled by the Beo4) is completely integrated into B&O by being connected to a Beosystem 3. Software updates in Besystem 3 provide easy integration of Apple TV, Playstation 3 and future 3rd party devices. I'm having my problems understanding which benefits I'll get, when adding the BeoSound 5 into my BV4 50" setup.

    As a loyal B&O user I'm used to pay twice or the manifold for B&O devices. But if BeoSound 5 and it's anticipated price of 4 t 5 k € is B&O's high end approach to the digital media world, I'll be really disappointed. How is B&O going to justify the price of this audio player ?

    Integration into B&O ? - definitely not

    Is it a versatile mediaserver ? - definitely not

    Expandabilty (external drives) ? - not sure

    Integration into any online media store - no way 

    Unique design and quality of materials ? - yes, but not for this price !

    It's not only that B&O seems to have lost the spirit on beautiful integration of technology, they have lost their proportionality for pricing. I don't even consider comparing B&O's digital media solutions with Apple TV, because Apple's products are way more sophisticated. But, I'm wondering if the responsible persons in Struer are aware of what you can get for 99 € today:

    http://www.westerndigital.com/

    It's a HD mediaplayer for all kinds of USB drives, integrating all formats for (I repeat) 99 € !!! That IMHO shows, what B&O could at least have integrated into their digital media solution.

  • 11-04-2008 8:58 AM In reply to

    • Roger
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    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    I do think that some of the criticism is fair - the BeoMedia 1 did a lot of damage when bought by the "core customers": They didn't know what do to when the screen went white, with "inaccessible" written at the bottom of it, when they tried to view a web page. While the average BeoWorlder can work around this (access the service menu), the average BeoWorlder is frustrated by the navigation - try to find a spesific song or album. Even with on-screen-navigation you have to scrool and scrool to find it, finding it using a BeoCenter 2 is close to impossible. Checking the service counters it is obvious that the BeoMedia 1 is left in "stand by" by most "core customers". What have they done with their first digital music/radio/picture/web platform, the BeoMedia 1? The last sw update was distribued in November 2006 - and the automatic update feature was mentioned as a key selling point.

    Roger  

  • 11-04-2008 9:42 AM In reply to

    • moxxey
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    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    Roger:

    The last sw update was distribued in November 2006 - and the automatic update feature was mentioned as a key selling point.

    I've been told that the Beosound 5 will be released unfinished with 'ongoing software updates', primarily as it will be connected to the Internet, so sw downloads can be automated.

    Don't get me wrong, I want the Beosound 5 to do well. I want B&O to do well (I've got so much modern kit, the future does worry me..).

  • 11-04-2008 10:55 AM In reply to

    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    moxxey:

    Roger:

    The last sw update was distribued in November 2006 - and the automatic update feature was mentioned as a key selling point.

    I've been told that the Beosound 5 will be released unfinished with 'ongoing software updates', primarily as it will be connected to the Internet, so sw downloads can be automated.

    Don't get me wrong, I want the Beosound 5 to do well. I want B&O to do well (I've got so much modern kit, the future does worry me..).

    The Beomedia 1 is connected to the internet.  Yes!  They made the same promise about updates for BM1 which never happened.  Beosound 5 has to work as stated.  I consider myself a longtime core customer and will not accept anything unfinished regardless of price.  

    Beosound 5 BL9 BC2 BL8000 Beovision 7 BL6002  BL11 

     

  • 11-04-2008 11:28 AM In reply to

    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    B&O software updates? I've heard that before..BeoMedia only had one major update during its lifespan, Serenata never had any, although it has some bugs, and my BeoPort doesn't even have automatic updates: how come I need to connect to the B&O website everyday to learn - after browsing for 10 minutes - that BeoPort SW4.83 has been released, without even knowing there was a 4.82 update to my "old" 4.81 version??

    Is it so hard to have auto SW updates when you're listening to NRADIO 2 to 3 hours a day?

    I would like to believe that BeoSound 5 will have software updates, but given B&O's past habits, I am still sceptical about that.

    Reunion Island is greeting you!

  • 11-04-2008 3:47 PM In reply to

    • benjnz
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    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    wtlc2zpx:

    We were once part of the potential buyers... and B&O has moved the target. So we still like the brand, wouldn't like to switch to anything else but can't afford it! => Frustration.

    I think that's hit the nail on the head. Then again am sure there are peeps here who can and will afford it, the rest of us can sit n clutch the latest brochure n weep Wink

    If I ever manage to claw my wage back into the realm of buying B&O I'll be happy and get on with it, otherwise I just have to live with the fact the target market has moved out of sight of me, so I should just shut up and live with it Indifferent

  • 11-05-2008 2:01 AM In reply to

    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    For the updates. For one, never change a running system. So from that prospective it makes sense not to auto update. Wih the limited resourcs and beta test B&O can do, it makes to me much sense not to auto push updates. Beomedia and Beomaster should change the game a bit, since its a closed box.

     

    That said, I am very much nervous about the speed Apple has for releasing Itunes updates and the integration to the Beomaster. If it just reads the ID tag from the file there may not be an issue butif the integrated tighter with the itunes library this could very well backfire. 

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 11-05-2008 2:18 AM In reply to

    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    Limited resources? I don't think software updates are that capital intensive nowadays. For example, the Olive that I got its first update few months after its launch. And Olive is a really small company compared to B&O. I just think B&O is just more concerned at being profitable than being the "best". YOu don;t really see a no compromise approach in any of the B&O product lineup now.  
  • 11-05-2008 8:50 AM In reply to

    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    I am looking forward to trying out the BS5 soon and will see how it compares to my present Apple/Beoport/iPod solution. I don't see that the sound quality can improve as I have a completely wired system and the BS5 will import the music from my Mac. I will be interested in how it integrates with the rest of my system though. If it is good, I will get one!
  • 11-05-2008 8:57 AM In reply to

    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    Peter :
    I will be interested in how it integrates with the rest of my system though. If it is good, I will get one!

    Same thing here. What is your audio master?

    p.

  • 11-05-2008 5:31 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoSound 5 price this can not be true?

    Hi, I havent read all the replies so this may be old information :

    - The Beosound 5 will cost 37.000 DKK
    - You can find a blurry image of the BS5 on the webb

    Regards

    Hans

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