I do think that B&O will have to convince existing customers that the price is fair. Back in 2004 they introduced the BeoCenter 2 which was supposed to be, among other things, a fine way of operating N.MUSIC and N.RADIO. I guess it is fair to say that B&O gave up on the user interface with this product vs BeoMedia 1. And the BeoMedia 1 was supposed to be a product that would evolve with software updates for some 5 years after you bought it. So far they have only introduced one major sw-update (v.3.0) and the hardware is so far behind that it can't handle the BeoMaster 5 sw - the plan was to introduce the same platform for the BeoMedia 1 as for the BeoMaster 5. I do hope they will release a BeoMaster 5 "light" sw for the BM1.

My point: The BC2 introduced as late as 2004 and the more recent BM1 are both outdated with respect to handling harddisk based music and internet based radio. Why would the BeoSound/-Master 5 have a longer life span?

Roger

I've just purchased (well, yet to pay, but it's installed..) a Beocenter 2 and it's superb with my existing 'Mac Mini as a media server' setup. Bought a cheap 802.11n Airport Express as it's situated quite a distance from my wireless router, in an old house. Connected these two and then use the iPod Touch as a cheap two-way remote to control the audio from my Mac Mini. Ideal.

My PowerPC-based Mac Mini is the oldest model available and probably would be <£100 on eBay. However, with a refubished 8GB iPod Touch, integrates perfectly with my setup, requires fewer cables than any existing B&O setup (have you seen all the cables and 'controller box' for the Beocenter 2?) and costs considerably less.

However, I'm sure that there many on this board in particular who will buy the Beosound 5 - at £3800 - to do exactly the same thing, and will spend their time hoping a two-way remote will be developed, just because it's B&O.

Dafinity:

Hmm, I wonder if there will be two prices.

Have been told that there are two sections. The back end which includes 500GB hard disk and can be connected to TV or monitor so you can navigate on your TV and also browse the web and show pictures but no movies.

The front end which has the screen and wheel sections.

Can be sold separately!

Russ

500GB? You got to be kidding. The standard nowadays is 1 Tera.  

wonderfulelectric:

Dafinity:

Hmm, I wonder if there will be two prices.

Have been told that there are two sections. The back end which includes 500GB hard disk and can be connected to TV or monitor so you can navigate on your TV and also browse the web and show pictures but no movies.

The front end which has the screen and wheel sections.

Can be sold separately!

Russ

500GB? You got to be kidding. The standard nowadays is 1 Tera.  

 

 

I'm also hoping that B&O at the price of 5000e don't make an already outdated product. The norm is pretty much 1TB now, and when this is launched in march 09? The industry norm will most likely be closer to 1,5TB.

Lossless format, will it give a file size per song roughly the same size as on the CD? So an album would be ~ 700mb? On a 500Gb disc we would "only" get about 700 CDs... 

Or maybe the disc will be easy to access physically and "easily" uppgraded to a bigger one. This would pretty much be essential since a hard drive gives up pretty easily. 

WMA Lossless is around 50% less than the original size.

Here is a sentence that will soon appear in the Beosound5 web site:

"BeoSound 5 is a two-component solution, consisting of the master unit BeoSound 5 and the socket unit BeoMaster 5. The socket unit includes all circuitry, memory and Internet connections in a storage space capacity of 500 GB. This is enough space for up to 28,000 songs in lossless WMA format."

I would agree that 500 GB is "Small" for a system that does audio and video, but the Beomaster 5 is not for Video.

p.

wtlc2zpx:

WMA Lossless is around 50% less than the original size.

Here is a sentence that will soon appear in the Beosound5 web site:

"BeoSound 5 is a two-component solution, consisting of the master unit BeoSound 5 and the socket unit BeoMaster 5. The socket unit includes all circuitry, memory and Internet connections in a storage space capacity of 500 GB. This is enough space for up to 28,000 songs in lossless WMA format."

I would agree that 500 GB is "Small" for a system that does audio and video, but the Beomaster 5 is not for Video.

p.

True enough - I believe WMA lossless compression is approx. 56%

wtlc2zpx:

I would agree that 500 GB is "Small" for a system that does audio and video, but the Beomaster 5 is not for Video.

I don't think the issue is whether 500G is small or not in absolute terms - but the price difference between 500G and 1T in production would be 20-50 euros, at most. Anyway, March 2009 is almost six months ahead, and I believe discussing gigabytes at this point when the product hasn't even been formally introduced is totally fruitless... personally, these endless speculations have gotten me bored with the product well in advance, and the BS5 will have to be something else to replace that with equal enthusiasm. 500G vs 1T of storage certainly isn't the turning point with that.

That's true. Let just hope b&o has the software power to build something similar to itunes or even better!

Is "lossless" truly "lossless" if it erases 44% of the information?

 

I'm still loving my CD's. 

bayerische:

Is "lossless" truly "lossless" if it erases 44% of the information?

Let's repeat it another time. Lossless is lossless as it name says. A lossless format is a file format that can compress the size of a file without losing ANY information. When the file is expanded (when being played), the resulting file is stricly identical to the original.

When you Zip a MS Word file on your computer, the size is reduced, when you expand it, are words missing in your document? No. Zip is a lossless compression format. WMA Lossless and Apple Lossless are similar to Zip, but adapted to Audio.

p.

wtlc2zpx:

bayerische:

Is "lossless" truly "lossless" if it erases 44% of the information?

Let's repeat it another time. Lossless is lossless as it name says. A lossless format is a file format that can compress the size of a file without losing ANY information. When the file is expanded (when being played), the resulting file is stricly identical to the original.

When you Zip a MS Word file on your computer, the size is reduced, when you expand it, are words missing in your document? No. Zip is a lossless compression format. WMA Lossless and Apple Lossless are similar to Zip, but adapted to Audio.

p.

 

OK, thanks for clearing that up for me. 

True True. But why do we want that when hard disk memory is cheap nowadays? Naturally we will prefer to archive everything in it's original form so in the future we will have the option of doing anything to the file such as burning it to a disk and transfer it to a mac where the WMA format is poorly supported. Why restrict out options at this price? It's seems that B&O is all about restricting our freedom. We have to use their connections and be tied down to a sole B&O entertainment system? Hello.... just what is the % of repeat customers? If B&O makes good products then we will stick to it why manipulate the consumers which will then encourage disloyalty. Just how many of you are 100% happy with your full B&O system right now? 

In my opinion. B&O is getting kinda evil. Compatibility with outside systems is getting harder then ever, now with the din only connections to their loudspeakers and everything. Let's hope that the Beosound 5 supports uncompressed ripping and HD audio.  

Hi folks,

I followed the discussions about BS5 during the last months. For me the price isn't really astonishing. It's typical B&O, there will be a lot of people buying the system. It doesn't matter if it's 2000 or 8000 Euros (remember B&O asks for 100.000 Euros for their largest TV. How mad is this? You could build a whole home-cinema with first-class equipment for that amount...).

Anyway: for me the whole BS5-concept is ridiculous! As I understand it right, we speak about a music-only system. Right? No video? No 2-way-remote? No home-automation? Just simple digital music? Just something between iTunes, Windows-Media-Player and BeoPort? Just a small display with a hardware-controller to scroll thru some menues?

I mean, come on! Most of us are B&O enthusiasts with the tendency to be very complaisent to "our" company. But wake up! This product was outdated before they had their first working prototype!

A modern future-proof B&O-gadget has to be more than that. It needs to be better than the regular stuff you can buy today. Actually everbody can buy media PCs for Video and Music, for images and communication. That's technical standard. A serious BS5 has to cover this standard first. But they have to do it better.B&O has to add the Beo-surplus-value. But what is this? "Just" comfort, function, simplicity, design, style... We don't need a boring mp3-player with a plug for Beolabs.

What we need ist a management tool for audio and video and communication. We wanna browse thru our digital music library, we need to have the same simple access to movies and our private files like photos or videos from our camcorders. We wanna push one button, the light dims, the projectors switches on, videos starts. Oh: Don't forget HD video! If the phone rings, the video has to pause, the light has to go up, and w can speak. What about the door bell? If it rings, we wanna see the visitor's face at the display. Etc. etc. etc. 

That's not the future. it's all there. the only thing, B&O has to add are their (formerly) good ideas for usability (Volume remote with the phone? Best idea evert! Display 6 CDs at the wall? Brilliant! Awake the remote with a fingertip? Superb! Integrate CD-player in TV? Cool...)

Anyway, I fear, we will never see a really astonishing product from B&O anymore. 

Just my 2 disappointed cents...
JOV

wonderfulelectric:

In my opinion. B&O is getting kinda evil. Compatibility with outside systems is getting harder then ever, now with the din only connections to their loudspeakers and everything. Let's hope that the Beosound 5 supports uncompressed ripping and HD audio.  

Beosound 5 does support uncompressed ripping. Beosound 5 also uses AAC widely used on Mac. What it does not support is DRM. That is because none are really standard.

I am not sure it supports HD audio... But where do you source HD audio? I thought HD Audio discs where copy protected.

The only proprietary connection is the DIN for speakers, but that is because B&O uses active loudspeakers. If you want to use passive speakers, you can get a Beolink Passive box.

Otherwise you can connect any source using SCART cables, DVI or HDMI on more recent TV, and normal CINCH for audio.

So if you want you can connect non B&O sources. You lose the confort of the unique remote (and there again B&O offers STB-C for most Video sources).

The other connection is ML, but there is no standard connection that does the same.

p.

 

wonderfulelectric:

 Just how many of you are 100% happy with your full B&O system right now? 

 

I'm 100% happy right now. 

JOV:

Anyway: for me the whole BS5-concept is ridiculous! As I understand it right, we speak about a music-only system. Right? No video? No 2-way-remote? No home-automation? Just simple digital music?

Yes, and the Beosound 9000 is just a 6 CD charger with a radio...

Regarding Home Automation, B&O has officially announced that they will do a big push in that direction.

wtlc2zpx:

wonderfulelectric:

In my opinion. B&O is getting kinda evil. Compatibility with outside systems is getting harder then ever, now with the din only connections to their loudspeakers and everything. Let's hope that the Beosound 5 supports uncompressed ripping and HD audio.  

Beosound 5 does support uncompressed ripping. Beosound 5 also uses AAC widely used on Mac. What it does not support is DRM. That is because none are really standard.

I am not sure it supports HD audio... But where do you source HD audio? I thought HD Audio discs where copy protected.

The only proprietary connection is the DIN for speakers, but that is because B&O uses active loudspeakers. If you want to use passive speakers, you can get a Beolink Passive box.

Otherwise you can connect any source using SCART cables, DVI or HDMI on more recent TV, and normal CINCH for audio.

So if you want you can connect non B&O sources. You lose the confort of the unique remote (and there again B&O offers STB-C for most Video sources).

The other connection is ML, but there is no standard connection that does the same.

p.

 

Oh cool. You can get HD audio from Linn and many other sites I think. Simply transfer them from your pc to a hard disk server that supports the format then you are done. It will mean that Beosound 5 must be able to support 24bit/96khz or higher. If Beosound 5 has a computer disk drive instead of the normal cd drive then it should be able to rip high res computer audio files directly off a burned copy.   

B&O's din connection for their loudspeakers isn't the industry's standard active loudspeaker connection ( RCA/XLR/). 

Home Automation,that would really good if you can use other makes of stuff and would put B&O back on track,then all we would need is sending hd tv round the house!

the new ceo of b and o in his strategy presentation  did say they cannot make everything so they must make it easier for intergration with other equipment. so will see give the guy a chance.

 

malcolm

The BeoSound 5 is a BeoSound. It's not a media center, it's not a BeoSystem (which is where any home automation is handled) and it's nothing else. Why would B&O suddenly introduce home automation into a product line which really has no need for it (how many people have wanted their BeoSound 4 to control their curtains?).

OK I feel a semi rant coming on so here goes... And agree with above, we're supposed to like the product line not diss the thing even before anyone's got hands on...

My 5cents...

The Price = No shocker really and its aimed at the market who'll buy it, so stop bickering!

The features = Well it's called BeoSound 5, so just try think laterally and music based, ok?!

Specifications = Look they're in bed with Windows (stop carping on about Apple - yes am an Apple nut) if you don't like it go buy Apple TV or Mac Mini, Airport Express, iPod Touch for 2 way etc

Home automation = Go get a Beo5 and happy programming

The product as a whole = am sure it's there to fill a need in existing owners and new owners - namely those who want a plug and play solution. Face it lots of us here are possitivley gagging to jig about with anything we can get our hands on. Let's say for arguement we're B&O geeks. Their market for this however, is someone who potters into the store (or sees it in a magazine/friends house) likes it, buys it, uses it, is happy with it, doesn't give a frig about HD size, memory, OS, tv use or whatever. They like it for how it looks and how it works with whatever number of speakers/houses/helicopters/cars they own

If you still don't like it then don't buy it

What an enlightened post from our Antibodean friend.

You won't be surprised therfore to find that I'm from the same camp. B&O don't give a frig for all you anoraks out there. The majority of you can't/won't afford it so you are not the people that B&O have ever aimed their products at and I hope very much that they don't change at this stage.

They booted out the man that wanted to sell to the great unwashed. It didn't work so the new man will change things back to the way they have always been. Good!

I think it is priced at what I would expect. Nice to see a new designer, Anders Hermansen, producing a fresh design. This is just the interface really - the Beomaster 5 details will be the make or break for me and the noises I have heard makes me think that my Virtuoso card could be getting some exercise! Looks rather nice on the floor stand. Think of it in the same way as a Beocenter 2 but for digital music and you are there.

joeyboygolf:

What an enlightened post from our Antibodean friend.

You won't be surprised therfore to find that I'm from the same camp. B&O don't give a frig for all you anoraks out there. The majority of you can't/won't afford it so you are not the people that B&O have ever aimed their products at and I hope very much that they don't change at this stage.

They booted out the man that wanted to sell to the great unwashed. It didn't work so the new man will change things back to the way they have always been. Good!

 Thanks

Am sure, to coin a phrase, "It does exactly what it says on the tin!" 

B&O Cambridge, lovely store with lovely people running it

Tomorrow is the presentation of "The Beast" in Göteborg, isn't it ? (www.beoevent.se)

I hope someone could take some nice pics of it... ! 

joeyboygolf:

You won't be surprised therfore to find that I'm from the same camp. B&O don't give a frig for all you anoraks out there. The majority of you can't/won't afford it..

It's not a question of whether we can or won't afford it. I think you'd be surprised.

However, it's a question of whether it represents value for money or represents better value than a current setup. B&O are relatively late to this market and there are better/cheaper solutions. What I was trying to say was that I'm happier (at the moment) with something like a BC2 or BeoSound 4 connected to my existing setup, rather than moving across my audio to a new system - B&O or not.

Remember that a lot of users already have DRM-based iTunes tracks. As these are supported by my streaming audio server setup, but not the Beosound 5, does me paying £3800 represent value for money or a reasoned purchase? Right now, perhaps not.

However, my many thousands of pounds spent on B&O equipment this year has represented excellent value.