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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 10-24-2007 5:36 PM by pgerell. 22 replies.
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  • 10-09-2007 5:39 AM

    • pgerell
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    Using Data link products in ML-network (was: Signal levels in MCL)

    Hi everybody.

    I'm trying to get a grip on the basic principles behind the MCL and ML design.

    I hope this understanding will make it easier to see how and why I should connect my equipment in a certain way.

     I understand that in a MCL network you control the volume in all rooms as the volume is set by the master.

    Is this the same if you connect a BL3500 using the MCL socket?

    What is the signal level in the MCL cable? Volume adjusted low-level signals or amplified speaker level signals?

    How does the MCL/ML converter work? How can the box convert the variable level MCL-signal to the fixed level used in a ML network?

    Hope someone can shed some light on this. I guess your answers will trigger further questions from me.

    By the way, my equipment is:

    • MX7000
    • Beosystem 6500 with a pair of CX100
    • Beolab 3500 with both MCL and ML sockets
    • Beolink video
    • Beolink converter
    • A house with Lexcom Home cables and a ML junction box in the patchpanel.

    Thank You

    Peter

     

  • 10-09-2007 8:12 AM In reply to

    Re: Signal levels in MCL

    Master Control Link 2 is the system that your 6500 uses. It distributes sound at speaker amplified level from the Speaker 2 outputs. If passive MCL2A speaker kits are used, the volume in the main room will be the same as the link room.

    Now we come to the more complicated scenarios!

    1. MCL2AV or Active speaker kit. This essentially steps down the amplified output to variable line level and feeds this to an active speaker or TV. The volume level is to most intents independent of the level in the main room.

    2. MCL/ML converter. This again steps down the level from amplified to line level and also translates the data from MCL language to ML. The sound is then sent as line level to the rest of the system. The ML/MCL converter actually contains an amplifier and control circuits and has its own independent power supply. Obviously it can also be used the other way round and in this case it amplifies the signal back to normal speaker level.

    I run the exact opposite to you as I have a modern ML system attached to a MCL network.

    The Beolab 3500 will work independently in a MCL system as one can use it as if it had a a MCL2AV attached to it which reduces the amplified output down to line level and then you have the internal amplifier and control system which allows you to alter the sound parameters. Or you can attach it directly with ML depending which is easier for you.

  • 10-09-2007 9:05 AM In reply to

    • pgerell
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    Re: Signal levels in MCL

    Thank You.

    I understand a lot more now? Even though I wonder how this step down is actually done. Do the MCL2AV and MCL/ML converters have access to the volume setting on the 6500?

    When you say MCL/ML I guess you mean what is called ML/MCL in the product pages of this site?

    I do not have this converter but do have a Beolink Converter. (Type no 1611). Could this be of any use to me? The product page on this site mentions different versions of this converter.

    At least I know by now that it is not recommended to build my own junction box and transfer MCL in my network due to the amplified signals in that protocol.

    /Peter (Quite common name by the way)

     

  • 10-10-2007 4:35 AM In reply to

    • pgerell
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    Re: Signal levels in MCL

    Bumping this thread as I edited my last post with new information.
  • 10-10-2007 7:07 AM In reply to

    Re: Signal levels in MCL

    The 1611 is a Beolink converter and this converts Datalink to ML. This is useful when attaching an older audio system to a newer TV for instance but does not involve MCL. You need the big black box!!

    There is quite a useful manual on site about MCL that explains how most things work and the relationship between amplified volume and the output of the MCL2AV. There is a link and the MCL2AV, although offering independent volume control, is constrained by the level playing in the main room.

  • 10-10-2007 9:51 AM In reply to

    • pgerell
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    Re: Signal levels in MCL

    Ok, so the following scenario not using MCL at all is not possible?

    Beosystem 6500 (aux socket ) <--> Beolink converter (1611) <--> ML-network

    Beolab 3500 <--> ML-network

    MX7000 (aux socket) <--> Beolink Video converter (1614 ??) <--> ML-network

    /Peter

  • 10-10-2007 9:58 AM In reply to

    Re: Signal levels in MCL

    I'll need to check!! The 3500 does do things differently! I'll get back to you!
  • 10-10-2007 10:19 AM In reply to

    • pgerell
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    Re: Signal levels in MCL

    That would be great!

    These things seem to be quite complicated, but that's part of the charm with older systems.

    /Peter

  • 10-10-2007 11:47 AM In reply to

    Re: Signal levels in MCL

    Hi Peter....

    Even after reading the ML/MCL book over and over ....I still do not understand how you can take Speaker level inputs and go IN to a ML/MCL converter as those speaker slots are for speaker OUT.....

    I know how it works the other way...from converting ML to MCL....cause it's basically an amp....

    How is that?? thanks,

  • 10-10-2007 12:06 PM In reply to

    Re: Signal levels in MCL

    With regards to the Beolab 3500, it depends on the software version of the Beolab 3500.

    For fully complient with Masterlink from the Beolab 3500 it must be at least version 2.0

    Regards Keith....

  • 10-10-2007 2:44 PM In reply to

    • pgerell
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    Re: Signal levels in MCL

    Thank you Keith.

    My BL3500 is of version 1.0. Is there an upgrade?

    What functionallity is missing? Does it only support a subset or are there compatibility problems?

    I guess my Beosystem 6500 + relevant converter is not fully compliant with ML either.

    Maybe the only way to find out is to test? The only problem then is to figure out why it doesn't work.

    I don't know what I would have done without this site. I'm sure I can work this out with your excellent support

    /Peter

     

  • 10-10-2007 3:14 PM In reply to

    Re: Signal levels in MCL

    Peter,

    There is an upgrade for the Beolab 3500 to take it to the latest version which is version 2.1 Click HERE for details

    You can also find other information related to the Beolab 3500 HERE

    Your Beosystem 6500 will work perfectly via the type 1611 converter to the upgraded Beolab 3500

    Regards Keith....

  • 10-10-2007 3:42 PM In reply to

    • pgerell
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    Re: Signal levels in MCL

    Thank you Keith, that's good news for me.

    I will contact my dealer for the upgrade and some cables.

    /Peter

  • 10-10-2007 4:38 PM In reply to

    Re: Signal levels in MCL

    Frank Rizzo:

    Hi Peter....

    Even after reading the ML/MCL book over and over ....I still do not understand how you can take Speaker level inputs and go IN to a ML/MCL converter as those speaker slots are for speaker OUT.....

    I know how it works the other way...from converting ML to MCL....cause it's basically an amp....

    How is that?? thanks,

    You may be correct. The box is two way as far as codes are concerned - data transfers backwards and forwards through the box so that the ML and MCL components talk to each other. I only have experience of using MCL from ML and not the other way round. The MCL2AV basically steps down the amplified output by using a large resistance so that it becomes variable line level. It then has a pre-amplifier to allow separate volume control though the level it can amplify to depends on the initial volume, hence my qualification.

  • 10-17-2007 5:37 PM In reply to

    • pgerell
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    Re: Signal levels in MCL

    Hi everyone.

    Here's an update on my progress so far.

    I finally got around to buy some cables.

    I have made the following connections

    BS6500 <-> BL Converter (1611) <-> ML cable <-> BL3500

    I still haven't detected any problems even though the BL3500 has SW 1.0

    Does anyone know the differences between the SW-versions? Apart from the obvious ones like the renaming of SAT to DTV and PHONO to N.RADIO.

    Personally I prefer the old names as my system actually starts playing vinyl when I select N.RADIO on my BEO4.

    Once again: Thank you for the support.

    /Peter

  • 10-18-2007 2:17 AM In reply to

    Re: Signal levels in MCL

    Peter,

    The main differences that you will see between the software versions other than the display mostly effects control of linked TV's in the same room as the Beolab 3500. Things like changing TV channel can only be done using the number buttons for example. Basically version 1.0 software did not provide all the Masterlink functions, however if you do not need those functions then leave it as is.

    Regards Keith....

  • 10-22-2007 3:40 AM In reply to

    • pgerell
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    Re: Signal levels in MCL

    Thank you Keith

    I think SW 1.0 will suffice for me for now.

    Last night I tried this configuration

    BS6500 <-> BL Converter <-> ML cable <-> Beolink video (1615?) <-> MX7000

    When I pressed CD on the Beo4 in my TV room, the BS6500 did turn on and the CD started to play, but I didn't get any sound.

    I also tried the other way around.  When pressing AV-TV or AV-V.TAPE on my BL1000 the Beomaster is turned on and showes AUX on the display. But still no sound.

    What can be wrong here?

    Thanks Peter

  • 10-24-2007 4:08 PM In reply to

    • Ignace
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    Re: Signal levels in MCL

    Have you used an AUX-splitter yet ?

    Basically AUX between BM6500 and MX, the other AUX goes to the Beolink-converter.
    (keeping MCL between the BM and MX and then convert to ML)

     

  • 10-24-2007 4:42 PM In reply to

    • pgerell
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    Re: Signal levels in MCL

    Ignace:

    Have you used an AUX-splitter yet ?

    Basically AUX between BM6500 and MX, the other AUX goes to the Beolink-converter.
    (keeping MCL between the BM and MX and then convert to ML)

     

    No, I haven't tried that.

    Is the AUX-splitter a passive device like the ML junction boxes or is some logic involved?

    /Peter

  • 10-24-2007 4:48 PM In reply to

    • Ignace
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    Re: Signal levels in MCL

    It is a basic T-connector , part No. 6270702

    The setup with a T-connector is the B&O recommended setup for

    - BS6500 + MX7000 + BL3500

    Do you have the overview of the Config Guide on this setup ?  

  • 10-24-2007 5:14 PM In reply to

    • pgerell
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    Re: Signal levels in MCL

    Thank you. 

    I think I will try that. As the AUX/Datalink signals are all low level it should be possible to use my existing LexCom cables. I just have to build a pair of custom cables with a RJ45 in one end and 7-pin DIN in the other end.

    No, I haven't seen that overview.

    /Peter

  • 10-24-2007 5:22 PM In reply to

    • Ignace
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    Re: Signal levels in MCL

    I guess the Beosystem and MX are too far apart for a direct connection and then split?

    Anyway, below is the B&O recommended setup:


    ************************* VIDEO SYSTEM SETUP **************************
     

    Beovision MX 7000 IT
    Connection Video
     
    Connect the aerial to the aerial input of the TV-set.
     
    Selecting option on the TV-set
     
    Option: OPTION 1 (Factory setting), with Beo4
     
                    Press:                          | Display:
                   --------------------------------------------
                    STANDBY + LIST at the same time | OPTION?
                    GO                              | V.OPT
                    1                               | Observe confirmation
                                                    | from BeoVision
     
    When using the remote control mute function, sound is
    restored by turning the volume up or down.
     
    ************************* AUDIO SYSTEM SETUP **************************
     
    Beosystem 6500
    Beovox passive
     
    Connection Audio
     
    Connect the Beovox to the SPEAKERS 1 socket on the audio
    master using a loudspeaker cable.
     
    Connect the aerial to the aerial input of the audio master.
     
    Selecting option on the audio master
     

    Option: OPTION 1
     
    Press:  STAND-BY   SOUND 1 STORE 
     
    Option: OPTION 1 (Factory setting), with Beo4
     
                    Press:                          | Display:
                   --------------------------------------------
                    STANDBY + LIST at the same time | OPTION?
                    GO                              | V.OPT
                    LIST                            | A.OPT
                    1                               | Observe confirmation
                                                    | from AudioMaster
     
    Note!
     

    The Beomaster 6500 must be equipped with software (S/W) 1.4 or
    higher, part no. 8341309, to enable the following operations:
    - fine tuning using the MCP 6500 (press GOTO, << or >> ),
    - programming of the Beomaster to switch to stand-by at a specific
    time.
     
    ********************* AUDIO/VIDEO/LINK SYSTEM SETUP *******************
     

    To obtain Link intergration the main room must be equipped with a
    Beolink Converter, part No. 1161166
    BeoLink Converter, part No. 1161466 will not work
     
    Connection
     
    Connect the AUX/TV socket of the audio master to the AUDIO
    AUX LINK socket of the TV-set using a 7/7-pin DIN cable.
     
    Connect the BeoLink Converter to the TV and audiomaster
    using a 7/7-pin DIN cable and a T-connector part No. 6270702
     
    Note!
     
    All Timer PLAY programming must be made on the radio.
    Set Timer ON/OFF to ON on the products to be switched on via the 
    Timer programming.
     
    It is not possible to use the timer function for programming
    VIDEO PLAY or VIDEO STAND-BY.
     
    ********************* REMOTE CONTROL FOR MAIN ROOM ********************
     
    The recommended remote control is Beo4
     
    The following remote controls may also be used:
    Beolink 7000 (1-way IR setup for the Video system)
    Beolink 5000 (1-way IR setup for the Video system)
    Beolink 1000
     
    However, there may be functional limitations if the alternative remote control is used
     
    Setup for Beo4 remote control:
     
    Beo4's "LIST" must contain the following items in order to be able
    to operate the Main Room products.
     
    LARGE REVEAL INDEX UDDATE MIX SUBCODE STORE
    MONO    (changed to SOUND with S/W 4.0 or higher in Beo4)
    TURN RETURN
    (RESET)
    A.SETUP (only with S/W 2.0 or higher in Beo4)
    AV      (only with S/W 4.0 or higher in Beo4)
     
    See Beo4's operation manual page 10/12 on REMOVE and ADD functions
    from/to the List
     
    Note!
    Beo4 must be equipped with software (S/W) 2.0 or higher to operate:
    Setup and tuning functions on the Videomaster.
    The software version can be read on the Beo4 display by
    pressing (STANDBY LIST) and then (MENU GO) at the same time.
    Order No. 8001827
     
    At battery replacement or battery failure of Beolink 5000, the
    remote control must be set to 1-way mode again. Other wise it will
    not be possible to operate the Video- or Audiomaster.
     
    *************************** LINK SYSTEM SETUP *************************
     
    Master Link
    BeoLab 3500 (LCS 9000)
     
    Connection
     
    Connect the Master Link cable to the Master Link socket on the
    BeoLink Converter in the central room.
     
    Connect the Master Link cable to the Master Link socket of
    BeoLab 3500.
    Connect BeoLab 3500 to the mains.
     
    Setting of option in the Link room
     
    BeoLab 3500:
      Option 6, with Beo4
     
             Press:                          | Display:
            --------------------------------------------
             STANDBY + LIST at the same time | OPTION?
             GO                              | V.OPT
             LIST                            | A.OPT
             LIST                            | L.OPT
             6                               | Observe confirmation
                                             | from the Link Product
     
    Note!
     
    The audio master in the main room cannot distribute PC sources, e.g.
    N.MUSIC and N.RADIO to the Master Link system.
    The PC sources are therefore only local sources in this Link room
     
    If LCS 9000 is equipped with S/W 1.0, the Master Link setup must be
    made on the product itself. This is done in the following way:
     
    Press:          STAND-BY  MENU  09  PLAY    Display reads out:  ML OFF
    Press:          STEP UP                     Display reads out:  ML ON
    Press:          STORE
                    Disconnects mains
                    Connect mains
    Press:          STAND-BY  LINK  6  STORE
     
    If LCS 9000 has a series number lower than 10552474, pins 4 and 12
    must be short-circuited in the ML socket on LCS 9000. See also
    Technical Information 160X-2
     
    When the stand-by function is activated in the Link room, the
    audio master in the Main room will always go on stand-by.
     
    ********************* REMOTE CONTROL FOR LINK ROOM ********************
     
    The recommended remote control is Beo4
     
    The following remote controls may also be used:
    Beolink 1000
     
    Setup for Beo4 remote controle:
     
    Beo4's "LIST" must contain the following items to be able
    to operate the products from the Link Room.
     
    CLOCK
    MONO (changed to SOUND with S/W 4.0 or higher in Beo4)
    TURN RETURN
    (RESET)
    A.SETUP (only with S/W 2.0 or higher in Beo4)
    AV      (only with S/W 4.0 or higher in Beo4)
     
  • 10-24-2007 5:36 PM In reply to

    • pgerell
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    Re: Signal levels in MCL

    Great! Now I can see how it all should work.

    I will start out with standard cables to verify the functionality before moving to custom cables.

    /Peter

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