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Latest post 02-29-2012 3:01 PM by Rookie. 53 replies.
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  • 02-24-2012 6:31 PM In reply to

    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    Like others, I owned some audiophile equipment before moving to B&O. I had some H.H. Scott, Fisher, McIntosh, and Dynaco tube amps, a Lexicon Processor, VTL Maximal Preamp, but all I've kept are my Vandersteen 2Ci speakers in my main listening room and my Grado Headphones.

    I was never able walk across my room without picking the sound of my footsteps up on my previous turntable. Now with the BS5000, no worries. I'm also shocked at how good my S45 and even CX75s sound in my link rooms. I've listened to more high quality music in the last two years with my B&O gear than I did in the previous 20 years. I too listen with the loundness on - for low level morning music while the kids are still asleep. I added a simple iPod Touch dock to the Tape 2 input of my BS5000 and use the Tango app to control it and display the album art from any link room. Is it audiophile? Dunno. But for me it's audio bliss.

    BeoSystem 5000 (BM 5000, BG 5005, BC 5000, CD50), BeoCenter 3500, BeoCenter 2500, BeoLab 2500, BeoVox S-45, S-45.2, RL-140, CX-100, CX-50, C-75, 3 MCL82 link rooms, A8, 4001 relay and ambio 

  • 02-24-2012 7:18 PM In reply to

    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    beocool:

    bayerische:

    Rich:

    Beobuddy:

    bayerische:

    Silent wire MK5 digital coaxials from the soundcard to Beolab 5's. Just for the good looks. Stick out tongue

     

    Be aware that you'll have to play them for about a week before you'll get the most out of it Big Smile 

    And also make sure the arrow on the cable is pointing in the proper signal flow direction.  [:'(]

    Oh, I had them the wrong way, changed them, and now the orchestra really opened up! Stick out tongue

    LaughingLaughingLaughing

    When you bought them did you check if they were right and left spun for right and left speaker, the center is not spun but a single straight wire.

     

    Beosound 3000, BL 4000, BL 8000, BG 2404,BG 5000, BG CD50, Beocord 5000, BM 901, BM 2400, BM 4000, BV S45, BV 3702. There is nothing we cannot do, but a lot of things we don't want to do!!

  • 02-25-2012 8:29 AM In reply to

    • Chris
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    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    We have a bore in our family who litteraly spends hundreds if not thousands of pounds on record player nibs, made from different types of different wood. He has convinced himself they sound differently etc. OK they might, but come on. His place looks like Jodrel bank.

     When he finally "succumbed" to an Iphone dock he admitted the Beosound 8 was his preffered choice after listening to it, but afraid of what his fellow bores would think about him getting a B&O product, he bought a Zeppelin.

     Oh how i laughed when i told him it was powered by B&O ICE. His face.......

    A Beovision 10-40 in black and red fret on order, Beo4, Beo6, many A8's, a pair of white and yellow Form 2's, Beocom 4, 28 inch Avant RF DVD, Apple TV and a wife that loves this stuff as much as i do! 

  • 02-25-2012 2:24 PM In reply to

    • Jeff
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    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    Funny story, I feel sad for someone who will buy something they don't like as well because of what their alleged friends would say.

    There was an audio show once where a "cheap and crappy" Japanese integrated amp, I think it was a Yamaha, and a high end tube amp were setup so you could switch between them with a large A/B switch. They let people listen at length and switch back and forth, and recorded their comments, the Japanese amp sounded brittle, grainy, shallow, etc. while the high end amp had amazing depth and soundstage, fluid and lush mids, no grain, etc.

    Lots of embarrassment when they revealed that the switch wasn't connected to anything, they were listening to the Japanese amp all the time. People are funny.

    Personally I enjoy music more with my B&O than with any of my old gear, as I focus on the music and not on the gear...well, I do focus on admiring the looks of the B&O. :-)
  • 02-25-2012 5:26 PM In reply to

    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    As luck will, until now I had no visit from an audiophile, but a lot of my visitors falls in love with the look of my B&O, vintage and newer.

    As for listening, when to vintage, "Oh it comes from 2 sides" (stereo), and on the 5 channel surround, "Oh, it comes from everywhere"

    Most places they have a ghetto blaster turned up to the max, and god help the music lover.Laughing

    Beosound 3000, BL 4000, BL 8000, BG 2404,BG 5000, BG CD50, Beocord 5000, BM 901, BM 2400, BM 4000, BV S45, BV 3702. There is nothing we cannot do, but a lot of things we don't want to do!!

  • 02-25-2012 7:24 PM In reply to

    • Step1
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    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    Jeff:
    Funny story, I feel sad for someone who will buy something they don't like as well because of what their alleged friends would say.

     

     

    There was an audio show once where a "cheap and crappy" Japanese integrated amp, I think it was a Yamaha, and a high end tube amp were setup so you could switch between them with a large A/B switch. They let people listen at length and switch back and forth, and recorded their comments, the Japanese amp sounded brittle, grainy, shallow, etc. while the high end amp had amazing depth and soundstage, fluid and lush mids, no grain, etc.

     

     

    Lots of embarrassment when they revealed that the switch wasn't connected to anything, they were listening to the Japanese amp all the time. People are funny.

     

     

    Personally I enjoy music more with my B&O than with any of my old gear, as I focus on the music and not on the gear...well, I do focus on admiring the looks of the B&O. :-)

     

    I can absolutely believe that story :)

     

    Olly.

  • 02-26-2012 12:12 AM In reply to

    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    B&O: Being the guest in a Michelin-standard restaurant.

    Audiophilia nervosa: Struggling like a an underling cook in the kitchen of that restaurant.

  • 02-26-2012 1:30 AM In reply to

    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    soundproof:

    B&O: Being the guest in a Michelin-standard restaurant.

    Audiophilia nervosa: Struggling like a an underling cook in the kitchen of that restaurant.

    Sums it up nicely! Big Smile Excellent! Yes -  thumbs up

    Beoworld's twenty-eighth ninth prize winner and fifty-first second prize winner. Best £30 I've ever spent!

  • 02-26-2012 2:07 AM In reply to

    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    Just last Monday, I had a guest for dinner. We started a conversation about the music and then of course about the hardware. He told me that "audiophiles do not take B&O as a serious brand in audiophile world" !!! Upps...

    I said come with me to my living room, I'll give you a small demostration. Believe me, I have a really week configuration. 2 Beolab 5000, 2 Beolab 4000 with Beosystem 4500 there (we do not use our living room that often). There is 12 meters distance between 4000s and 5000s and the width of the room is 6 meters.

    I invite him to choose a place anywhere in the room and turn the system on. He was amazed with the clearness of the sound (honestly not on max. volume. I can get perfect result up to 60/90 sound level). He was suprised how 4000s (in that small volume) and how 5000s (in that small thickness) perform. I've told him that he should have an information and experiance about the B&O products first then he might have an idea. That was end of the conversation with a huge respect to B&O products.

    Just think, If I would have Beolab 5s :)

  • 02-26-2012 2:30 AM In reply to

    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    Biggest problem I see in all this is the quality of the media.

    Unless you have certain recording labels, its all a waste of time and money.

    I can play certain albums in a BS5/BL5 combo and get completely blown away. On other albums, its just "uuh!".

    Not sure how any cable, isolation pad, wooden stylii or valve would be able to polish the turd that is a poor recording. (And I fear with compressed music, portable play systems and little white earphones...they are the majority now of all recordings.

  • 02-26-2012 3:36 AM In reply to

    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    Jeff:
    There was an audio show once where a "cheap and crappy" Japanese integrated amp, I think it was a Yamaha, and a high end tube amp were setup so you could switch between them with a large A/B switch. They let people listen at length and switch back and forth, and recorded their comments, the Japanese amp sounded brittle, grainy, shallow, etc. while the high end amp had amazing depth and soundstage, fluid and lush mids, no grain, etc.

     

     

    Lots of embarrassment when they revealed that the switch wasn't connected to anything, they were listening to the Japanese amp all the time. People are funny.

    Do you have a source to backup this story? Did you read it on the internet...

    Why would this particular high end brand, hire an expensive listening room, to prove that their product is on par with a "cheap and crappy" brand? Probably they didn't.. Then who did? You tell me!

    Was I that wrong when I changed my cheap integrated amp for an expensive Quad PreAmp + Quad Amp with less features. Was the sound the same? Hell no!

    Every year I visited an audio show with 50 listening rooms (it's nearby) and everytime I got blown away with the sound. I do agree there is a lot of crap being told in the audiophile world, (especially when it comes to cables) but the same counts for the non-believers. It's not all that black and white. Not at all.. Smile

     

  • 02-26-2012 7:05 AM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    DoubleU:

    Do you have a source to backup this story? Did you read it on the internet...

    Why would this particular high end brand, hire an expensive listening room, to prove that their product is on par with a "cheap and crappy" brand? Probably they didn't.. Then who did? You tell me!

    He never actually said the high end brand set this test up!! I would imagine it would be the Japanese manufacturer.

    I would also imagine there will be a lot of high end amplifier manufacturers who would be extremely reluctant to put there wares up against "lesser" competition in a real controlled test!

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 02-26-2012 8:15 AM In reply to

    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    I once visited the Berlin HIFI fair in the late 70es.

    The German HIFI institute had set up a demo of a "almost HIFI"- a "HIFI" and a "top-class HIFI" unit.

    They played about 6 pieces of audio from church organ to Jazz, each time within the music switching between those hidden gear. They were marked "A", "B" and "C" by 3 lettered lights but each piece of music they changed the correlation of this A,B,C. They had this demo during the whole fair (1 week) about 2-hourly

    I managed to find the right systems for all 6 pieces in their correct sequence.

    Not too many people did obviously. My college copied my findings.

    I did win an amplifier. He won a turntable (but without system).

    That was back in those days when my ears were better Embarrassed When entering a house I could tell if they had a telly running by the 15.625Hz flyback sound...

    I think I'm still capable to detect 128k mp3-files on a good equipment.

     

  • 02-26-2012 8:44 AM In reply to

    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    Its important to remember that the difference between auditioning vs. living with components is the same as a date vs. marriage. After a while, you know so much more.

    B
  • 02-26-2012 8:49 AM In reply to

    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    I think this is one of the best things about B&O - the sound quality is superb, the user interface excellent, and the build quality outstanding. I really don't feel the need to 'tweak' anything in an attempt to make improvements. I just sit back, relax, and enjoy the show.

    BeoSystem 5000 (BM 5000, BG 5005, BC 5000, CD50), BeoCenter 3500, BeoCenter 2500, BeoLab 2500, BeoVox S-45, S-45.2, RL-140, CX-100, CX-50, C-75, 3 MCL82 link rooms, A8, 4001 relay and ambio 

  • 02-26-2012 12:28 PM In reply to

    • Jeff
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    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    The Japanese amp/high end amp demo was set up by a group of skeptical objectivists, and was written up at the time, I think in the JAES but it's been a while so I am not sure of that, I could probably find out for sure.

    And jeez, what in the world would make anyone think a high end amp maker would do something like this?

    As for differences, I tell you that even the hardest core believers out there would be astounded by how many "huge" differences disappear in even a sighted level matched test, let alone in a single or double blind test. Which leaves you with the question, if these differences can disappear with simple level matching.....

    I remember doing a test back when the little company Audio Alchemy was hot. They had this inexpensive DAC (DAC In The Box) that got good reviews as being far better than any mass market CD players internal DAC, though of course not as good as this or that exotic DAC.

    I set up a test, and damned if it didn't sound a bit better, or at least different, than three mass market items, a Sony DAT, Denon, and Philips. When I went about level matching, I noticed the DITB was about 0.4 dB hotter than the others. When leveled, the difference went away even sighted. The human ear does not hear small loudness differences as differences in volume, rather it perceives them as differences in tone, imaging, etc.

    I believe this was a deliberate design choice by the DITB manufacturer. And I don't blame them, a business exists to survive and make money, and hopefully to deliver a good product. The little DAC was well made, and a good value for what it was, regardless of whether an external DAC made any sense from a performance perspective.

    Also, never assume that a high end product is competently designed. Some do indeed sound different because they have rather horrendous response aberrations resulting from poor design. A particular YBA CD player sticks out in this regard, yet some people raved about it.
  • 02-26-2012 11:02 PM In reply to

    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    Jeff Rowland did something similar when he got criticized for using ICEpower in his amps.

  • 02-27-2012 3:17 AM In reply to

    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    Mr10Percent:

    Biggest problem I see in all this is the quality of the media.

    Unless you have certain recording labels, its all a waste of time and money.

    I can play certain albums in a BS5/BL5 combo and get completely blown away. On other albums, its just "uuh!".

    Not sure how any cable, isolation pad, wooden stylii or valve would be able to polish the turd that is a poor recording. (And I fear with compressed music, portable play systems and little white earphones...they are the majority now of all recordings.

    Absolutely.

     

    Most music today is mastered to complete rubbish.

    My wife often asks me why (when I'm "actively" listening) so often listen to the same music... Well of my music collection of around 700 CD's I reckon about 5% is of really good mastering and audio quality.

     

     

    -Andreas

     

    BLab5, BLab5000, BLab8000, BV10, BS9000, BS3, Beo5, Beo4, BLink1000, BLink5000, BLink7000, A2, A8, Form2

     

     

     

  • 02-27-2012 3:43 AM In reply to

    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    The problem with compressed music is referred as "Brickwalling", slamming the levels as close to 0 dB as possible. It certainly fits some undergenres of modern techno, but not rock music.

    Beocenter 9300, Beogam CD50, Beocord 5500, Beomaster 3400, Beomaster 4400, 2 Beogram 4000, Beomaster 8000, 2 beogram 8002, Beovox S-75, Beovox MS150.2, Beovox RL6000, Beovox S-35, Beomaster 6000, 2 Beocord 9000, Beocord 8004, Beocord 5000, Form 1, 2x Beolink 1000, Beo4, MX3500, LS4500. Born 1993.

  • 02-27-2012 4:39 AM In reply to

    • chartz
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    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    Hi!

    The word audiophile was actually invented at the publication of the French review "L'Audiophile" in 1977. The noun was duly registered by Edouard Pastor, the publisher, a member of Jean Hiraga's team. These guys were among the first back then in 1977 to show that components may have their own "soundprint" and also to question the influence of cables. They also wrote articles about the influence of the listening room, phonic isolation... It was very influential here in France and beyond!

    As for me I used to be an audiophile, believing in all this blindfoldly, just because of my reading this review (until its demise in 1995) for so long, not to mention trips to the Maison de L'Audiophile in Paris, a place where you could actually listen to their DIY equipment and buy the components to build it! Mr Hiraga being of Japanese origin, this often meant special Japanese components unavailable anywhere else. And you could meet the Man Himself! 

    It had me build speakers, valve equipment, etc. There always was, beyond theoretical articles, a clear DIY aspect to the review. I learnt a lot.

    B&O was refered to from time to time. The Beolab 5000 is an example.

    Now I enjoy the music more than the equipment of course, and I do believe snake oil has made businessmen richer and credulous buyers poorer, even though some of them have certainly made technology progress. 

    Non-audiophile brands like Philips, the real inventors at component level, brought a lot to the community. B&O, at a higher level, did the same.

     

    Jacques

  • 02-27-2012 9:56 AM In reply to

    • Jeff
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    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    It's ironic that, after being given the best medium to date for delivery of music to the end user, CD, with flat power response, outstanding bass, channel separation, and dynamic range, that the music industry would use that to deliver overly compressed crap that wouldn't stress the reproducing ability of a 78 rpm record.

    Good CDs, done by engineers that care, are amazing things, most music, not so much.

    Chartz, what you describe is what has come to be called, at least here in the US, as the "ultra-fi" community. It is usually recognized by the use of very niche technologies, many of which are for the most part based on now obsolete ideas, single ended tube amps, single driver speakers, etc. At least for you and most who follow this there is a significant amount of DIY stuff, which leads to individual craftsmanship and pride, and a fair amount of learning about electronics. I can respect that a lot more than the boutique audiophile who buys whatever the flavor of the month is, passive vs. active hobby so to speak.

    I know a fair number of these folks, a friend of mine uses a very obscure Italian SE triode amp and Japanese backhorns, large things, with a very tweaky Fostex 8 inch full range. Pricey stuff, very cool looking, sounds pretty good but IMO my B&O sounds better and is certainly easier to use.

    You make a very astute observation regarding the contributions by the large companies like Philips, Sony, etc. who have the money and engineering staffs capable of working on the chip level to bring us better A/D and D/A's, digital processing chips and algorithms, etc. Some niche market guru winding single ended transformer coils or such will not contribute as much to the advancement of sound quality. But, as we see with modern recordings, advancement of sound quality is often at odds with what the musicians and recording engineers actually do with it sadly.

  • 02-27-2012 10:10 AM In reply to

    • chartz
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    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    Yes Jeff, CD done properly will return amazing results. It is a crying shame that so many recordings are made so badly today, with lots of compression and equalization, when the signal should be kept pure. Such people claim artistic creation (you know, c  rap "music") but that's another subject.

    I have old LPs from 1959-1964 which still sound amazing, and I wonder what those great engineers would have achieved with today's techniques.

    There are of course great sound technicians today, but they seem to work more in the classical and jazz business anyway.

    I didn't know the "ultra-fi" term, here they are just audiophiles, directly descending from the aforementioned review trend initiated more than 30 years ago.

    Jacques

  • 02-27-2012 11:43 AM In reply to

    • Jeff
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    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    "Popular" music has traditionally suffered from poor studio work, and tailoring to sound good on boomboxes, radios, and cheap car systems ala the use of the old Horrortones (Auratones) to test the mix on. Some artists are exceptions, Steely Dan being one, and lately a lot of remasters of older rock have come out that are quite good, including Steely Dan, ZZ Top and of course the re-release of the Beatles works, which are amazingly good.

    I think if anything what passes for pop music today is recorded worse than it ever has been, though as you say jazz and classical still strive for good standards. In the past, there were labels which did audiophile recordings, very well mastered and recorded music, often though of artists of dubious talent. There's a long history of audiophile records that are wonderfully recorded of music no one would want to listen to!  But there too fortunately a number of these labels have actually gotten better and better artists. I seem to see a lot of good jazz recorded on small labels.

    Back in the day, the old Columbia classical recordings were and remain legendary. I recall reading about the recording engineers using reverb rooms to add life to the recordings, since back then anything like digital hall effects were about 50 years out. They used various rooms, each had an Altec 402 coax speaker in one end, and a microphone at the other, and each room had different acoustic treatments. Some were hard finished and live, some had various types of padding, even to the point of some being pressurized with nitrogen or partially evacuated if I recall. They used these to add reverb to the recordings, hall effects, etc. and they were finally torn down sadly. It would have been interesting to characterize these using digital techniques so they could be captured for posterity.

    I've got some of the ultra-fi geekness myself, it's how I indulge the hobbiest part since my main system is stable. I have a small 6L6 based SE amp, and am looking into a pair of back horn speakers from Tang Band. I have a small pair of speakers using 3 inch full range TB's, with bamboo cone fiber woofers. Sound pretty decent for what they are. I want to build a Dada Darling amp but have to wait till I get more time and my bench cleared of other projects (trying to restore a Citation 11 preamp, fix my old McIntosh preamp, etc.).

  • 02-27-2012 12:03 PM In reply to

    • chartz
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    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

  • 02-27-2012 4:19 PM In reply to

    Re: The Audiophile & B&O

    I have a lot of those Columbia classical records from the late 50 and early 60's I even have a Columbia Stereo effects test record from that era.

    Another great set of recordings from that era were the RCA "Living Stereo" Lp's. I just love the sound they produce.

    I also have the original master CD set for the Beatles that came out back in 86 or so.  They did a good job on that digital remastering as well.

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