TripEnglish:

It's like if Louis Vuitton continued to make better and better trunks and never acknowledged that 90% of travellers use wheely suitcases with telescoping handles. 

... and not realised ocean liners with spacious holds had been replaced by air liners with a new set of constraints ...

I flew yesterday for the first in along time, and I could not believe how little overhead space short haul jets now have - I had to slide my wheely bin in sideways and that got me sour looks for being a cabin hog

Overhead bins are meant to be used for hats coats and ladies hand bags, not suit cases. I spend hours every week having to re write load sheets due to the fact that people insist on bringing their luggage on board.

TripEnglish:

They have been taught to pay a lot of lip service to quality, which confuses some people, but not to actually seek it out and pay the premium required to obtain it.

But that's just the nature of our fickle consumer-driven market. Only a few years ago, we bought expensive products to last. We didn't change our TVs for years. Many years. Same with a sitting room hi-fi. We kept our cars for far longer, kept the same briefcase until it was battered and we weren't too worried about upgrading our mobile phone.

Now all of this has changed. It's changed because everything became very cheap and affordable. People demand a new TV as they can afford to put a £800 product on their credit card and clear it with their missus. A year later and they can repeat the process. What happens to the old TV? They give it away or sell it for <£100.

The same thing applies to clothes, your laptop bag, mobile phone and more. People want things more quickly than they every did in the past. They are also very price savvy - I was down the gym this morning and was talking to a group of people who work in retail. The amount of customers they get in their stores who look at products, ask questions and even get them out the boxes....then go online to find a cheaper version. In turn, this then results in other online retailers driving down their prices, to the point where they are making no margin. The customer gets a better value product and, in turn, they view this as "throwaway". Everything cycles around again :(

It's quite rare to find someone who values quality and owning something long term.

Maybe B&O need to tap in to the likes of Lee, Ian Grace and others and utilise this pre-loved market more effectively. They would then allow a respectable trade-in from current kit. This would allow customers to get on the B&O bandwagon - and stay on the bandwagon - whilst upgrading their TV every 2-3 years, knowing that their current TV could be traded in against the new one.

Why do they need Lee and Ian? Primarily as UK dealers are now reluctant to take a trade-in. And, if they do take in something as a trade-in, the rates are quite low as they price them up on the basis the dealer might need to sell on to LifeStyle or MoreThan! It would be easier and wiser to work with Ian and Lee and shift some pre-loved stock through them, perhaps in association with B&O, and make this more official.

This enables B&O to put out the message that if you buy a B&O product, you can be safe in the knowledge that you'll get a reasonable trade-in against a new model at a later date. Something unheard of from any other brand.

That should be the new retail USP.

TripEnglish:

They have been taught to pay a lot of lip service to quality, which confuses some people, but not to actually seek it out and pay the premium required to obtain it.

That presupposes that all of the price upper goes into higher quality. This isn't always the case.

Moxxey has it spot on with trades in, and reselling. As for making entry level products that might somehow cheapen the brand. AUDI, BMW, Mercedes and Aston Martin all now have entry level cars. It doesn't mean the S class or 7 series are any less good does it?

Chris:

Overhead bins are meant to be used for hats coats and ladies hand bags, not suit cases. I spend hours every week having to re write load sheets due to the fact that people insist on bringing their luggage on board.

I sort of apologise ... BUT having had a 50% lost/delayed/damaged failure rate, whenever my luggage went through the bowels of the monster called Heathrow, I now only use cabin carry-on luggage

I don't know why in this digitized age this is still happening at Heathrow.

We were so heavy coming out of Malaga the other day, with a 38 degree heat and unfavourable runway, i had to leave everybodys bags there. Not a very popular decision you can imagine, but to be fair i'd be pissed off too.

Chris:

i had to leave everybodys bags there

better the bags than something worse

safe flying my friend !

Chris:

Moxxey has it spot on with trades in, and reselling. As for making entry level products that might somehow cheapen the brand. AUDI, BMW, Mercedes and Aston Martin all now have entry level cars. It doesn't mean the S class or 7 series are any less good does it?

This is not an Aston Martin..... http://www.eurocarblog.com/post/2021/aston-martin-cygnet-new-offiial-pictures  this is a piece of dog tu*d with a nice leather interior and a couple of very desirable badges fore-and-aft, dressed to con the fickle that AM is fulfilling its EU Carbon directives (not true but...)

Back to topic, I see great parallels between my No.1 hobby (driving my V12 Vantage) and my (now) No.2 hobby – music from B&O, in terms of the businesses themselves.

Both Aston and B&O make superb quality products – which are not always fully appreciated – namely I think  because of price and the lack of attainability for most people. Both are small independent companies not immediately associated with bigger groups in their own businesses. Both are – because of size/independence are struggling to compete with the big boys (Apple / Porsche/Audi etc..). Both produce products with amazing feel and sense about them (old skool) but often lack technological edge and economical sense that their large counterparts have.

There is no-doubt that when the current V12 6-liter engine in current Astons is phased out on environmental/economical grounds in 2014,  the new power plant will be succeeded by a smaller power plant made by either Mercedes, VW, Toyota or whomever, be forced of forced-induction, noisy (as in unmoving noise rather than the melodic burble of a naturally aspirated V12) and......well, just like every other sports car out there really. The magic will be lost and debased (as has already happened with flappy paddle gear-shifts).

The real reason btw the Cygnet is in place:- Sales, shareholder returns and perhaps a link-up with Toyota in the future for what is seen by many enthusiasts as a debased survival plan.

So what is the alternative for both Aston and B&O? Well sadly, I don’t think there is one. It is check-mate with nowhere to move. Innovating with the big-boys will debase the brand to the old customers, perhaps causing extinction, not doing so will definitely cause extinction unless they downsize and go cottage. Shareholders will not allow that to happen.

So there’s my prediction. B&O will go to more basic cheaper products and still satisfy no one. The products will never be able to compete with Apple price-wise irrespective of what they do, margin’s will reduce and the old mantra “too expensive for the features” will ring truer in the future than it does already now.

Check Mate.

see ford retained a 77 million stake in aston martin

malcolm welborn:

see ford retained a 77 million stake in aston martin 

I think that is the engine plant lease which will expire in 2014/5. The engine technology (V8 and V12) was I beleive bought by ford when they aquired Jaguar.

I agree, Cygnet is a silly car but thats due to environmental regulations.  I don't think the Bang & Olufsen brand is demeaned by some entry level products.  Bowers and Wilkins seems to have done well with entry level products.  B&W and their other company, Classe' build highly regarded audiophile products.

I will admit that I will hedge on the subject.  I have put off purchasing any B&O products until the situation is more clear.  That is the problem with the new category announcement.  It has a tendency to scare main line buyers including me.

Rumor has it the new category will be the reintroduction of electric shavers. Or sheep sheers. Somthing like that. 

moxxey:

Maybe B&O need to tap in to the likes of Lee, Ian Grace and others and utilise this pre-loved market more effectively.

They have at least launched the preowned section of the website http://www.bang-olufsen.com/preowned no ideas if anyone uses it though.

TripEnglish:

Rumor has it the new category will be the reintroduction of electric shavers. Or sheep sheers. Somthing like that. 

I was hoping for a new steamer trunk!

TripEnglish:

Rumor has it the new category will be the reintroduction of electric shavers. Or sheep sheers. Somthing like that. 

I wouldn't buy one, I use a razor. 

rednik:

moxxey:

Maybe B&O need to tap in to the likes of Lee, Ian Grace and others and utilise this pre-loved market more effectively.

They have at least launched the preowned section of the website http://www.bang-olufsen.com/preowned no ideas if anyone uses it though.

It's been around for some time, connected to the individual shops homepages.

What I find "funny" is that the B&O shop I used before the one I'm using now had a very standard answer to trade-ins.

"Well sure we could take it as a trade, but try selling it, as I wouldn't be able to give you much credit for it"

I would understand IF it was another manufacturers equipment, but their own.

Imagine if BMW told you this when you were thinking of uppgrading your 5-series...

As an example I was offered 500 euros for my BV5 with floor and wall stand, fully functioning in a 95% cosmetic condition when uppgrading to a new BV10.

All I can say, I switched stores, and will never buy from them again. 

bayerische:

It's been around for some time, connected to the individual shops homepages.

Yes, which was sort of my original point - rather than the stores accepting these pre-owned products (which they do reluctantly or not at all), it would be wiser to set up an official system through the current pre-loved suppliers, in conjunction with a store. The stores would be supplied with a guideline of buy prices (much like Apple do through their trade-in system http://www.apple.com/uk/recycling/ which is powered by and managed through a third party) and the dealers would be able to offset the buy price against the sale, subject to final inspection of the pre-loved equipment.

The dealer would then be able to tell their customers that one key advantage of buying B&O is that you can expect to be able to trade the product against an upgraded version (or a different product entirely) at a later date. They could even show the trade-in value for current products, much like the Parker's Guide for cars. You can see that the BV7-40 you're going to buy now could be worth 40% of the RRP in two years, or 30% in 3 years. A guideline, of course, but it would reassure me, as a potential purchaser.

I've noticed dealers are less keen to promote the trade-in, unless it's that official £500 off TVs which is an offer from B&O HQ. Bayerische you're right, dealers now tell you to shift your B&O equipment privately! Have you tried moving a BV7-40?

moxxey:

Bayerische you're right, dealers now tell you to shift your B&O equipment privately! Have you tried moving a BV7-40?

No, but I did try and move the BV5... Impossible.

TripEnglish:

Rumor has it the new category will be the reintroduction of electric shavers. Or sheep sheers. Somthing like that. 

They better be cheap sheep sheers...

bayerische:

I wouldn't buy one, I use a razor. 

Have you asked the sheep which they would prefer?

Mr10Percent:

Chris:

Moxxey has it spot on with trades in, and reselling. As for making entry level products that might somehow cheapen the brand. AUDI, BMW, Mercedes and Aston Martin all now have entry level cars. It doesn't mean the S class or 7 series are any less good does it?

 

OK, let’s get this clear....

 

 

This is not an Aston Martin..... http://www.eurocarblog.com/post/2021/aston-martin-cygnet-new-offiial-pictures  this is a piece of dog tu*d with a nice leather interior and a couple of very desirable badges fore-and-aft, dressed to con the fickle that AM is fulfilling its EU Carbon directives (not true but...)

Back to topic, I see great parallels between my No.1 hobby (driving my V12 Vantage) and my (now) No.2 hobby – music from B&O, in terms of the businesses themselves.

Both Aston and B&O make superb quality products – which are not always fully appreciated – namely I think  because of price and the lack of attainability for most people. Both are small independent companies not immediately associated with bigger groups in their own businesses. Both are – because of size/independence are struggling to compete with the big boys (Apple / Porsche/Audi etc..). Both produce products with amazing feel and sense about them (old skool) but often lack technological edge and economical sense that their large counterparts have.

There is no-doubt that when the current V12 6-liter engine in current Astons is phased out on environmental/economical grounds in 2014,  the new power plant will be succeeded by a smaller power plant made by either Mercedes, VW, Toyota or whomever, be forced of forced-induction, noisy (as in unmoving noise rather than the melodic burble of a naturally aspirated V12) and......well, just like every other sports car out there really. The magic will be lost and debased (as has already happened with flappy paddle gear-shifts).

The real reason btw the Cygnet is in place:- Sales, shareholder returns and perhaps a link-up with Toyota in the future for what is seen by many enthusiasts as a debased survival plan.

So what is the alternative for both Aston and B&O? Well sadly, I don’t think there is one. It is check-mate with nowhere to move. Innovating with the big-boys will debase the brand to the old customers, perhaps causing extinction, not doing so will definitely cause extinction unless they downsize and go cottage. Shareholders will not allow that to happen.

So there’s my prediction. B&O will go to more basic cheaper products and still satisfy no one. The products will never be able to compete with Apple price-wise irrespective of what they do, margin’s will reduce and the old mantra “too expensive for the features” will ring truer in the future than it does already now.

Check Mate.

 

 

I seem to recall also that Cygnet will only be sold to current Aston Martin owners?

I am test driving a Vantage tomorrow. Not sure if I will fit given my height and also not sure which would be my number 1 and 2 hobby, Vantage or B and O.

Vogue and Aston Martin did a photoshoot for the cygnet outside one of my shops earlier in the year - it was a total fiasco.

The car looks utterly awful too - looks like an invalid car with go faster stripes - Tragic.

I'm just the littlest bit a car guy, so I don't know the rules on this. I know that companies like Aston have to reduce the average emissions statistics in their fleet and building a shrimpy little car is the easiest way to do this, but does it have to be under the same brand if multple brands are controlled by a group? I.e do Mini's standards average in for Rolls Royce? I know Aston doesn't have this option, but I'm curious since I don't think we've seen any ridiculous mini-cars from other supercar makers.

It's a simple equation: 

B&O needs more turns, and less "hail-marys".

Period.

B