Kokomo:

Accept for this posting eh moxxey?

Hilarious. Should be a comedian :)

We shouldn't be discussing anything as the "new Avant". That was my point. We should move on. The market was very different in the CRT age. As someone pointed out, it was very easy for B&O to stand out from the crowd both with their TV design and picture. Plus the price point was competitive.

It's much harder these days as you can get a really thin Samsung with a superb picture, for well under a grand.

moxxey:

The market was very different in the CRT age.

Indeed - as far as I remember, ten years ago top-of-the-line tellies from any manufacturer cost closer to 2,000 euros. And for that, you were typically getting a 32" screen with no features to speak of besides showing a picture.

So if you you relate the prices to the substance you are receiving (and the change in value of money), I don't think B&O's lower end pricing has gotten that much fatter - it is the others that have become a lot cheaper, widening the gap.

***

As an example, an Avant 28" apparently cost £4,000 in 2001. According to the online calculator at MeasuringWorth, that corresponds to roughly £5,000 in today's money. Incidentally that'll buy you a BV10-32 with a motorized stand.

Also remember that B&O the company doesn't run on British pounds, and take a look at the currency exchange rates:

£4,000 @ 2001 ~= 6,500 €

£5,000 @ 2011 ~= 5,750 €

(yes, I know they don't use euros either, but DKK to EUR is practically fixed)

EDIT: should've perhaps compared to the sourceless Avant 28 CTV, which was much cheaper. But this was just an example to feed some thought, my main point is above the stars.

"I agree with you that some of the prices are doubtfull but comparing prices from 2000 with prices of of today is ridiculous even if you also compare other brands prices."

Why? A product like the BL4k even sounded better in 1999 than it does today, the only update of it was to reduce B&O´s cost. What if BMW, Philips, Husquarna or whatever brand introduced a model in 1999 and kept on increasing the price level each year? Even when they introduce a new model, the price increase is minimal (like the new 5-series from BMW). I know that B&O will have to get their R&D cost back, but... And people are quite passionate about stuff from Sony, too, just check out the forums discussing their new VPL-HW30 and the recent (major) price drop on the VPL-VW90ES (still a great product, but a new model is about to be introduced it seems).

Flappo is spot on. Customers walk into a B1 store, sees the 7-40 as a very good all-in-one product - and walks away when they see the price. B&O must address this "walking away"-syndrome for some of their products and understand that price is a concern for products that will be outdated within 5 years.

Roger

 

What would a competitor's model that is comparable to a BV10-40 cost? And by comparable model I mean a TV that is 40 inches, has built in speakers with similar sound quality to the BV10, has a built in surround sound processor with connections for the speakers, and a motorized stand? I ask because I am unaware of which manufacturers offer those features in a TV so I can not compare the prices.

Larskoelle:

Would you spend that amount of time and "mental acivity" on a <1k€ Sony or whatever brand plastic TV. I would definitely not and in case something is wrong with it I would had it over to the trash.

Sadly that's the problem with our throwaway society. Back in the 70s and 80s we tended to seek quality products that would last the test of time. Now a lot of younger people get bored within months. My younger brother has upgraded his TV 3 times in 2 years. He went from a 40" to a 46" and recently bought a 55". Crazy, but that's how younger people think these days. As soon as you have something, they're looking for a better version. Which is why there's a new iPhone every 12 months.

I can list a few 40+ year olds I know who have previously bought B&O and have ditched the brand and have bought "plastic" Sony's. And those Sony's don't break that quickly.These people also know it's much easier to ditch a cheap TV and swap out for an upgraded cheap TV, than it is investing in a B&O.

I'm not saying I (or we, which is why we buy B&O) have this philosophy - I really like my BV7-40 - but more and more people coming up behind us do have this philosophy and the age old "you buy B&O and it lasts ages" isn't sales patter that works for a lot of the younger generation these days. Besides, I guarantee you a 55" Samsung at £1500 is far more attractive to them than a 40" B&O.

Razlaw:

I ask because I am unaware...

You are seeking something most people on the street aren't seeking. You need to get in to the mindset of the general public, not think of your requirements. You can't say that other manufacturers lack a motorised stand, or 7.1 support or the facility to run a projector as, frankly, 98% of people aren't seeking any of these.

If you're seeking some of these features, there aren't too many options - Loewe perhaps. However, the majority are not, which is far bigger market. As I said above, the younger generation will take 55" over a 40" with 7.1 support. Or, gulp, 3D over connecting to a projector.

Razlaw:

What would a competitor's model that is comparable to a BV10-40 cost? And by comparable model I mean a TV that is 40 inches, has built in speakers with similar sound quality to the BV10, has a built in surround sound processor with connections for the speakers, and a motorized stand? I ask because I am unaware of which manufacturers offer those features in a TV so I can not compare the prices.

I am waiting to see this TV which was recently announced.  The 60 inch will be about $6000 USD

http://elitelcdtv.com/elite-lcd-hdtv-overview/

moxxey:

Sadly that's the problem with our throwaway society.

Guilty as charged.

Just yesterday I had to replace the youngest's TV.

I ran down to the local e-outlet and was out the door in 15 minutes with (2) identical (so as to keep the peace with the eldest) Hyper-Kikoniko flat screens and a pair of wall mounts.

Clerk: Would you like to add the extended warranty for $xx.xx?

Me: At this price, I'll throw them away and buy another one that looks just like it!

They are utter rubbish. Terrible image (not bad from 10'-0") and even worse sound.

The kids are happy.

Far as I'm aware, not much is "built in" in the BV7, Stand is bolt on, so is the speaker, with options.

 

Even if no other manufacturer offers the exact same option as B&O, they don't have to. 15.000 euro for a TV is a huge amount of money. And opens many options.

 

Gap between B&O and the rest is growing, LCD technology, link technology is dirt cheap today. B&O is not like Rolex as an example, they don't have the same brand and "have to have it" as for example they do.

I'm a huge Rolex fan, but right now with 2 price increases a year and not much is getting changed in the watches themselves, I'm beginning to look at other brands. 

bayerische:

I'm a huge Rolex fan, but right now with 2 price increases a year and not much is getting changed in the watches themselves, I'm beginning to look at other brands. 

Same with my Panerai's. Mind you, it's still a buyer's market. There are deals to be had. I picked up a PAM 214 at almost half price last week. I can't get even 5% discount from my B&O dealer :)

It's all about the price: http://fansonline.net/middlesbrough/mb/view.php?id=2805371

A typical British conversation about choosing a new TV. It's all about the price (generally speaking ;)

I dare one of you to try and convince them they need a B&O.

Duplicate  Deleted

linder:

Razlaw:

What would a competitor's model that is comparable to a BV10-40 cost? And by comparable model I mean a TV that is 40 inches, has built in speakers with similar sound quality to the BV10, has a built in surround sound processor with connections for the speakers, and a motorized stand? I ask because I am unaware of which manufacturers offer those features in a TV so I can not compare the prices.

I am waiting to see this TV which was recently announced.  The 60 inch will be about $6000 USD

http://elitelcdtv.com/elite-lcd-hdtv-overview/

Thanks for the link!

We have had the "are the TV's worth the asking price" argument many times, some getting quite heated at times - I believe certain folk stopped frequenting the forum because of the barracking they took for questioning the price of TV's. Its seems the time has arrived when the company has finally acknowledged there is no future in charging ever-escalating prices in a market swamped with ever increasing performance and features combined with falling prices.

I wish them every success with the new strategy, it surely holds more promise than continuing down the same old cul-de-sac.

Flappo:

I'd just like to see the real successor to the Avant that we've all been promised for so long.

 

Any info ??

 

Well a plan is better than none I guess.

I'm not going to hold my breathe on pricing, and rather than joining in the bagging session, I'll sit here and navel gaze until some new products come along!

Puncher:

We have had the "are the TV's worth the asking price" argument many times, some getting quite heated at times - I believe certain folk stopped frequenting the forum because of the barracking they took for questioning the price of TV's. Its seems the time has arrived when the company has finally acknowledged there is no future in charging ever-escalating prices in a market swamped with ever increasing performance and features combined with falling prices.

I wish them every success with the new strategy, it surely holds more promise than continuing down the same old cul-de-sac.

 

The new affordable line will be great when the "beo virus" attack and you just have the extreme need to buy something B&O (even if you don't need it). I think some of Beoworlders are very familiar with the "dissease".

I love this thread :D

 

benjnz:

I'm not going to hold my breathe on pricing, and rather than joining in the bagging session, I'll sit here and navel gaze until some new products come along!

Hopefully at the dealer conference in September. Does anyone know the date of this conference?

moxxey:

benjnz:

I'm not going to hold my breathe on pricing, and rather than joining in the bagging session, I'll sit here and navel gaze until some new products come along!

Hopefully at the dealer conference in September. Does anyone know the date of this conference?

I'm not sure when it is in Europe but it's in 3 weeks here in the US.

battle los angeles will be good on DD 5.1 becouse of the way it is mixed in a sound studio 

i have listen to loads of films some are way better on pro logic thru PCM than a lesser bluray film

I am suprised that most DVD/BD are not just basic pcm as most people dont have an AV reciever i think in the future that may happen 

my experience working on high end property developements is that wealthy people dont really care about AV or high end systems 

if i ask about about B&O they are never thought about in there installations they can build a good basement cinema for £10 k 

when  i visited a good HI FI dealer they said even the top Samsung LCD at £5 k just wont sell and they sell far more of the £ 1.5 k versions which are still stunning on Blu ray 

 

People in general dont buy quality products like they used, its all throw away and most people arent enthusiast about AV 

 

 

Roger:

Also, in my new Audi I got one of the best sounding audio systems around. I carry my music on my iPhone, and it can stream stereo sound to the sound system in the car via bluetooth or I can dock.

Last night I was driving down the road using the AMI... Pink Floyd / The Happiest Days Of Our Lives did an immediate, abrupt transition to Franck Pourcel / Tritsch-Tratsch Fast Polka. In the microsecond shock -I almost drove off the road. As the Polka picked up... I started laughing out loud with visions of Looney Toons characters whacking each other over the head.

As I sobered up and looked around, I had a moment of enlightenment. The new Audi interiors have been a bit of a love/hate for me. Gone are the classic, teutonic views and feel -replaced with an almost "transformer" like design of the Japanese/Korean manufacturers with all the doo-dads like the AMI. Then I realized... I think I am just getting old. I am becoming my father, and like him... just can't (quickly) come to grips with ever advancing design.

The designers are drawing for younger and younger customers. Times are changing and while I am an aluminum and wood B&o guy... I am doing my best to appreciate their recent offerings more. I never had any interest in the BS5 concept, but I am warming -one Polka at a time.

MGBGTV8:

People in general dont buy quality products like they used, its all throw away and most people arent enthusiast about AV 

My first flat screen was a Panasonic 37" cost me USD 2.200,00 back in 2002 I guess, 3 years ago it got damaged from voltage overload, (the power cables in the the street got stolen and the thieves shorted one phase to neutral and I got 220 V on the 110 V line), a repair from a non autorized dealer cost me USD 400.00, and after 3 month the TV was down again, this time I went to Panasonic and after 2 month they told that they needed a "special" PC board and delivery time would be 3 month. Cost would be another USD 450.00

Meanwhile I bought a cheap LG 32" for some USD 400.00, and when Panasonic came back with the estimated cost of the Panasonic I decided to buy one more LG but 42", in the future I will buy only cheap 1-2 year old models and let them run until they brake or get totally outdated. I'm totally satesfied with the 2 screens, I get over the air HD in good quality and thats enoughs for me.

The sound coming with HD is not always top quality, some channels is only 2 channel stereo and some 5-1, I try to manage the sound through an Onkyo amp/reciever, to my BLs, but normaly what comes in is what you get.

As Jaff, I am more into Aluminum and wood, and my main sound system will allways be one of my vintage with vinyl.

If B&O want me back as a new buying costumer, they will have to come up with something interesting, regarding price and design.

But as Jaff mentioned, todays design and prices are for a younger generation, where the quality isn't the important thing.

When I was young, I could not afford all of the things I can afford now. I'm glad that when some of you were young, you were able to afford the finest. I'm glad to see B&O trying to appeal to a younger, and perhaps also a less affluent audience. I'm not sure that younger and less affluent means that you don't or can't appreciate quality, it may just mean that you can't afford it. Aspirational products are fine with me.

I have a house full of B&O, purchased over many years, sadly I will never be the kind of customer often decribed by some of the dealers on this forum, capable of financing a custom installation in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. 

I'm waiting with interest to see what we get in the future. More affordable solutions to integrate non-Beo TVs, perhaps more other digital products.

One of the fundamental problems that we're now coming up against is that the buyers who are coming into the market and replacing our old buyers have never been quality driven. They have been taught to pay a lot of lip service to quality, which confuses some people, but not to actually seek it out and pay the premium required to obtain it.

I remember training at B&O over 10 years ago and the design story being that David Lewis did not build to a price point. He simply built the best product he could and then they tallied it up and figured out what it would cost. 

While I admire that method and lament its disappearance in the landscape of production, it's clear that we can't continue to be competitive in our own market without reflecting the trends of our customers and that means both pricing and user experience. It's like if Louis Vuitton continued to make better and better trunks and never acknowledged that 90% of travellers use wheely suitcases with telescoping handles.