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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 09-04-2011 2:17 PM by BillC. 238 replies.
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  • 08-18-2011 1:58 PM In reply to

    • Puncher
    • Top 10 Contributor
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    • Joined on 03-27-2007
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    Re: B&O News

    TripEnglish:

    Evan:
    Yes, Vince has a point. I feel like most people would be buying an external a/v processor for its competencies rather than integration.

    They're really one in the same. People want to consolidate the video experience and these days they want to integrate their house to varying extents. Having a competitively priced AV processor that leaves out the concept of multiple screens & video processing would mean that we can build out the ecosystem further and have oppurtunities for BeoLabs and control integration in rooms that we may not have access to with the current portfolio.

     

    Alternatively, why not sell the AV processor, even fully featured models, at a compelling, strategic price? If people want into a B&O system, then selling them the hub of their choice at a really keen price is the best way to start. Prices could be weighted on the basis that additional sales will follow - an audio master and a stereo pair today, new fronts next year (maybe move the original pair to the rear), a TV panel the year after.....who knows! Upgrades after that.

    Speculate to accumulate etc.

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 08-18-2011 6:32 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Sounds like a plan.......

    Bv7-55 & Bv7-32...Blue,lab1's x4,Yes4Blue, 6000x4Blue,Beocom6000 Blue,Beo5.Oh what a Blue set-up & a Beosound 5...After all,its Bang&Olufsen!

  • 08-18-2011 7:52 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    "fully featured" and "compelling strategic price" are somewhat vague. The BeoSystem 3 costs nearly $8,000US and that's a very fully featured high-performance processor. Arguably one of the most fully featured single units on the market. But how much could we really depress the price? There isn't as much margin in these products as some of the cynics would like to believe, so a slight depression in price wouldn't move the needle in terms of numbers sold, but would almost certainly accumulate to a massive loss in revenue over the entire dealer network.

    The real answer is putting out a product that's actually built to an appropriate pricepoint that maintains profitability for the dealer network so that the company can grow and prosper. 

    Many AV retailers took almost the precise gamble you suggest and prematurely depressed the prices on flat panel televisions at the expense of their own margin on the assumption that folks would accessorize with AV recievers, speakers, power strips, and interconnects. They found out the hard way that customers were not interested in restoring their lost margins and simply too the TVs at the rock bottom prices and went their merry way. Most mid-fi dealers in the US went bust over the last decade trying to play that game. 

    My question is: what would members think of as a realistic price for them to buy into such a concept? Think of a basic AV chassis like the one built into a BV10. What would you pay? $3,500? $4,500? More? Less?

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 08-18-2011 8:31 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Trip,

    I would be happy with an AV processor containing most of the features found in a BV7 (which i believe is a trimmed version of BS3?) with free/subscription updates for the future. I think the AV processor should be resaonably technology stable and therefore can be kept for a good number of years. I would say $4k would be reasonable providing it supports a good range of video displays. I personally prefer the BV4 myself (amazing quality) although I have BV7 but the prices of the BV4 screens is rather prohibitive to buy and to upgrade for future purposes as technology moves on. For BO customers the BS3 should be a flagship product and emphasised from a marketing point of view.

    Vince

  • 08-19-2011 2:19 AM In reply to

    • Puncher
    • Top 10 Contributor
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    • Joined on 03-27-2007
    • Nr. Durham, NE England.
    • Posts 9,588
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    Re: B&O News

    TripEnglish:

    "fully featured" and "compelling strategic price" are somewhat vague. The BeoSystem 3 costs nearly $8,000US and that's a very fully featured high-performance processor. Arguably one of the most fully featured single units on the market. But how much could we really depress the price? There isn't as much margin in these products as some of the cynics would like to believe, so a slight depression in price wouldn't move the needle in terms of numbers sold, but would almost certainly accumulate to a massive loss in revenue over the entire dealer network.

    The real answer is putting out a product that's actually built to an appropriate pricepoint that maintains profitability for the dealer network so that the company can grow and prosper. 

    Many AV retailers took almost the precise gamble you suggest and prematurely depressed the prices on flat panel televisions at the expense of their own margin on the assumption that folks would accessorize with AV recievers, speakers, power strips, and interconnects. They found out the hard way that customers were not interested in restoring their lost margins and simply too the TVs at the rock bottom prices and went their merry way. Most mid-fi dealers in the US went bust over the last decade trying to play that game. 

    My question is: what would members think of as a realistic price for them to buy into such a concept? Think of a basic AV chassis like the one built into a BV10. What would you pay? $3,500? $4,500? More? Less?

    I take it that you know the manufactured cost of the BS3 then, are you willing to share it with us?

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 08-19-2011 4:01 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    It's my guess that the "new product category" will consist mainly of low cost items that have been sourced by a trawl around China, looking for items that can be stamped with the B&O logo and marketed through Apple stores.

    They will not be the type of item that will interest the majority of Beoworld members so I would suggest that excitement should be tempered!

    I am also reading a lot of posts that would indicate a reduction in B&O prices, or the introduction of new "low cost" ranges aimed at the "man in the street". Dream on guys!

    You have had the BV8 and, in the main, none of you really liked it. Do you want more of the same????

    While ever the manufacturing facility is in Struer, you will not get the sort of cheap, full featured audio or video products out of there ,that you guys want. The only place you can achieve this, at this time,  is in China. This will inevitably will lead to compromises which you guys won't want.

    Me, I come from an age when B&O showroom prices were always out of the reach of the "man in the street" and long may they continue to be so. It is all part of their desireability as far as I am concerned and separates me from the common herd.

    Snob but honest???Wink

    Regards Graham

  • 08-19-2011 5:17 AM In reply to

    • Kokomo
    • Top 100 Contributor
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    • Joined on 08-21-2007
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    Re: B&O News

    joeyboygolf:

    Me, I come from an age when B&O showroom prices were always out of the reach of the "man in the street" and long may they continue to be so. It is all part of their desireability as far as I am concerned and separates me from the common herd.

    Snob but honest???

    Can't argue with that Joey. I think that was part of the pride in ownership, in that you could see 'behind' the product in a way others didn't or couldn't. A TV for example wasn't just 'a TV', there were lots of other brands about offering that. Most people I knew just couldn't get it, but a couple could and owned B&O themselves.

    For fear of opening up this thread even more, I think that just as Loewe are a brand with a price premium over and above the mass market, B&O should similarly pitch themselves just above Loewe but not at such a level where, frankly, some products are at prices which, for many, renders them totally unattainable.   

  • 08-19-2011 5:42 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    I think we have short memories. When I was young, B&O did make entry level products. Think Beolit, think the Beograms and the Beovox speakers. The cartridges were also very cheap, even compared to other makes. You could build a system gradually - my brother who is a bit younger started with a Beogram 1800 turntable - under £100, which was good value.

    Products and expectations have moved on but I don't see that we cannot expect the entry level products to be fun and exciting. We will regard some of them as unnecessary and frivolous, but many won't. The BS8 is a huge success - I think B&O wish to build on this and expand. Let's not get too down before anything is actually seen.

  • 08-19-2011 5:47 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Hi all,

     

    lately I followed the conversation via Email notifications etc.

     

    B&O updated their website.

    http://www.bang-olufsen.de/goodbye-hello?nm_extag=Referrer%3DBannerAd%2Cfacebook%2Cwall20110819%2C0&cid={CA75FA24-BDB0-4B9B-B6A1-853D24C6939A}

     

     

    Beo Time, A8, EarSet3i, EarSet2, BC2, BC6, BL3, BL11, Apple TV1, BEO Ballpen, BL2000, BL3500

    Christmas 2010 Prize Draw 1st winner. BeoSound 9000 Mk3 

    Thank you

  • 08-19-2011 5:55 AM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-14-2007
    • South West, UK
    • Posts 2,360
    • Bronze Member

    Re: B&O News

    joeyboygolf:

    It's my guess that the "new product category" will consist mainly of low cost items that have been sourced by a trawl around China, looking for items that can be stamped with the B&O logo and marketed through Apple stores.

    I'm not sure that will give B&O the right impression. Although the headsets are made in China, they are fundementally B&O designed and developed. The Chinese factory simply follows the instructions from B&O.

    Sourcing Chinese designed products is a different matter entirely!

  • 08-19-2011 6:46 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Well, the share price has risen, and seems to reflect a wider aproval in the corporate world.....

     

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/17/us-bangolufsen-idUSTRE77G35J20110817

     

  • 08-19-2011 9:15 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Puncher:

    I take it that you know the manufactured cost of the BS3 then, are you willing to share it with us?

    Of course I do. All dealers know it. But I don't need to share it. I don't believe that you're unsophisticated enough to think that anyone is pocketing untoward amounts of money on these products. We make a pretty standard margin up the chain. But margin isn't the issue. It's price-point and even if I sold it at zero dollars in profit it wouldn't be cheap enough to push substantially more units and no business would manufacture a product to barely break even. 

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 08-19-2011 9:31 AM In reply to

    • Alex
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • New York, NY
    • Posts 176
    • Bronze Member

    Re: B&O News

    joeyboygolf:

    It's my guess that the "new product category" will consist mainly of low cost items that have been sourced by a trawl around China, looking for items that can be stamped with the B&O logo and marketed through Apple stores.

    They will not be the type of item that will interest the majority of Beoworld members so I would suggest that excitement should be tempered!

    I would presume that you've guessed wrong, fortunately.  I've never heard of any manufacturer doing this much less a global luxury brand.

    Store Manager Bang & Olufsen Broadway 927 Broadway New York, NY 10010
  • 08-19-2011 10:03 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    As an owner of a treasured Beosound 4000/Overture, I too felt that keeping it was essential to include it's operation in my main room, alongside my BV9 and my new Beosound 5.

    But after only loading 20% of my music collection to my BM5, and experiencing MOTS, I've completely changed my mind!
    I'm moving the BS4000 to my basement den, alongside my Avant. MOTS has been such a revelation of surprise, musical fidelity and overall enjoyment that I found myself seeing no need for the BS4000's CD, Radio or Cassettes.
    Sure, I'll keep it. But I feel the BS5 is a more than worthy successor. Itis beyond wondeful!

  • 08-19-2011 10:25 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    You make it sound like stuff made in China is 3rd rate garbage - funny because almsot everything Apple sells is made in China and it regularly wins plaudits for it's construction and reliability. Things have moved on since the old days , ya know..

    I think it's a very positive move for B&O and Apple. Best of both worlds.

    Imagine Jony Ive and David Lewis on the same design team !!!!

    Big Smile

  • 08-19-2011 10:45 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Better yet, with Steve's failing health, imagine a brain transplant wherein Steve Jobs' brain is implanted into David Lewis' head and Jonathan Ives' head is also sewn on next to that hybrid David/Steve head for good measure. Whip up a few black double moc turtle necks and you've got a holy trinity resting on a single set of shoulders. Finally a realistic plan to save Bang & Olufsen.

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 08-19-2011 10:49 AM In reply to

    • Kokomo
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    • Joined on 08-21-2007
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    Re: B&O News

    Flappo:
    I think it's a very positive move for B&O and Apple. Best of both worlds.

    Wonderful Flappo - at last B&O!

     

  • 08-19-2011 10:50 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Sorry , I don't find it amusing mocking someone else's health , particularly when they've been close to death.

    What exactly have you contributed to the world apart from a few snide comments ? 

  • 08-19-2011 10:52 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Haha Flappo working in the creative industry etc J Ive and David Lewis would not be a creative match made in Heaven. They would seriously be at each others throats!!!

    I'm a little sad about the 3200 going as it's roots are pure Ouverture and it was that system that made me like B&O for myself.  Before that i'd always thought they were dull sounding things for really old people. Mind you, i won't miss those dreadful sticking electric glass doors - the embarrassment of that door sticking on my Century when I was trying to show it off to friends :(  oh dear :)

  • 08-19-2011 11:06 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Regarding saving b&o , why not train the sales force to follow Trip's legendary customer relations skills he so brilliantly displays on this board much to everyone's befuddled bemsuement ? 

    The next sentence removed by Peter

    Back on topic - Paul does have a point - but imagine what they'd come up with ! HA

    I really think it could be magical Stick out tongue

  • 08-19-2011 11:33 AM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-14-2007
    • South West, UK
    • Posts 2,360
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    Re: B&O News

    Flappo:

    You make it sound like stuff made in China is 3rd rate garbage

    No no. No-one said things made in China is rubbish. I was saying that stuff designed in China might be. Someone mentioned about B&O sourcing existing products from China.

    There's a BIG difference between Apple designing and closely monitoring the quality of production in China than sourcing something designed by a Chinese company.

    If B&O went down the latter route, it wouldn't be B&O at all.

  • 08-19-2011 11:36 AM In reply to

    • moxxey
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    Re: B&O News

    Can't post a reply, always ends up in moderation!

    EDIT: appears to have been approved. Peter told me he spent 20 minutes removing all the swear words. Sorry Peter.

  • 08-19-2011 11:51 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Flappo:

    You make it sound like stuff made in China is 3rd rate garbage - funny because almsot everything Apple sells is made in China and it regularly wins plaudits for it's construction and reliability. Things have moved on since the old days , ya know..

    I think it's a very positive move for B&O and Apple. Best of both worlds.

    Imagine Jony Ive and David Lewis on the same design team !!!!

    Big Smile

    Aren't you the one trolling on this one?

  • 08-19-2011 11:57 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    What's trolling about that ?

    Check out the PC Magazine awards Apple win EVERY year .

    Peter's asked me very nicely to stop owning you lot so don't goad me thx.

    TUE seems to realise that China is the new unplundered market with gigantic potential , about time you all realised the west is financially finished and the future is - look east young man ! No wonder Trip's always in a bad mood. LOL

     

  • 08-19-2011 11:58 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Kokomo:

    For fear of opening up this thread even more, I think that just as Loewe are a brand with a price premium over and above the mass market, B&O should similarly pitch themselves just above Loewe but not at such a level where, frankly, some products are at prices which, for many, renders them totally unattainable.   

    I follow you on this one. Last year I bought an Individual Compose 52' with sound projector and motorized feet. It was almost 9k€. I choose it over B&O because It suited my need with the included media center and the hardrive. Everything was in it. The build quality is nice but not as nice as B&O. Well, still 1000 times ahead of other brands.

    To be able to record straight from the TV and be able to see my media files directly from it is really a pleasure.

    sergio

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