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Untitled Page
ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012 READ ONLY FORUM
This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and
1st March February 2012
Latest post 09-04-2011 2:17 PM by BillC. 238 replies.
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Puncher
- Joined on 03-27-2007
- Nr. Durham, NE England.
- Posts 9,588
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TripEnglish:
Evan: Yes, Vince has a point. I feel like most people would be buying an external a/v processor for its competencies rather than integration.
They're really one in the same. People want to consolidate the video experience and these days they want to integrate their house to varying extents. Having a competitively priced AV processor that leaves out the concept of multiple screens & video processing would mean that we can build out the ecosystem further and have oppurtunities for BeoLabs and control integration in rooms that we may not have access to with the current portfolio.
Alternatively, why not sell the AV processor, even fully featured models, at a compelling, strategic price? If people want into a B&O system, then selling them the hub of their choice at a really keen price is the best way to start. Prices could be weighted on the basis that additional sales will follow - an audio master and a stereo pair today, new fronts next year (maybe move the original pair to the rear), a TV panel the year after.....who knows! Upgrades after that.
Speculate to accumulate etc.
Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.
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TripEnglish
- Joined on 10-27-2007
- America
- Posts 1,595
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"fully featured" and "compelling strategic price" are somewhat vague. The BeoSystem 3 costs nearly $8,000US and that's a very fully featured high-performance processor. Arguably one of the most fully featured single units on the market. But how much could we really depress the price? There isn't as much margin in these products as some of the cynics would like to believe, so a slight depression in price wouldn't move the needle in terms of numbers sold, but would almost certainly accumulate to a massive loss in revenue over the entire dealer network.
The real answer is putting out a product that's actually built to an appropriate pricepoint that maintains profitability for the dealer network so that the company can grow and prosper.
Many AV retailers took almost the precise gamble you suggest and prematurely depressed the prices on flat panel televisions at the expense of their own margin on the assumption that folks would accessorize with AV recievers, speakers, power strips, and interconnects. They found out the hard way that customers were not interested in restoring their lost margins and simply too the TVs at the rock bottom prices and went their merry way. Most mid-fi dealers in the US went bust over the last decade trying to play that game.
My question is: what would members think of as a realistic price for them to buy into such a concept? Think of a basic AV chassis like the one built into a BV10. What would you pay? $3,500? $4,500? More? Less?
There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin
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vlohjr1
- Joined on 06-26-2007
- Posts 106
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Trip,
I would be happy with an AV processor containing most of the features found in a BV7 (which i believe is a trimmed version of BS3?) with free/subscription updates for the future. I think the AV processor should be resaonably technology stable and therefore can be kept for a good number of years. I would say $4k would be reasonable providing it supports a good range of video displays. I personally prefer the BV4 myself (amazing quality) although I have BV7 but the prices of the BV4 screens is rather prohibitive to buy and to upgrade for future purposes as technology moves on. For BO customers the BS3 should be a flagship product and emphasised from a marketing point of view.
Vince
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Puncher
- Joined on 03-27-2007
- Nr. Durham, NE England.
- Posts 9,588
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TripEnglish:
"fully featured" and "compelling strategic price" are somewhat vague. The BeoSystem 3 costs nearly $8,000US and that's a very fully featured high-performance processor. Arguably one of the most fully featured single units on the market. But how much could we really depress the price? There isn't as much margin in these products as some of the cynics would like to believe, so a slight depression in price wouldn't move the needle in terms of numbers sold, but would almost certainly accumulate to a massive loss in revenue over the entire dealer network.
The real answer is putting out a product that's actually built to an appropriate pricepoint that maintains profitability for the dealer network so that the company can grow and prosper.
Many AV retailers took almost the precise gamble you suggest and prematurely depressed the prices on flat panel televisions at the expense of their own margin on the assumption that folks would accessorize with AV recievers, speakers, power strips, and interconnects. They found out the hard way that customers were not interested in restoring their lost margins and simply too the TVs at the rock bottom prices and went their merry way. Most mid-fi dealers in the US went bust over the last decade trying to play that game.
My question is: what would members think of as a realistic price for them to buy into such a concept? Think of a basic AV chassis like the one built into a BV10. What would you pay? $3,500? $4,500? More? Less?
I take it that you know the manufactured cost of the BS3 then, are you willing to share it with us?
Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.
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joeyboygolf
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- Ely, Cambridgeshire, UK
- Posts 3,252
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It's my guess that the "new product category" will consist mainly of low cost items that have been sourced by a trawl around China, looking for items that can be stamped with the B&O logo and marketed through Apple stores.
They will not be the type of item that will interest the majority of Beoworld members so I would suggest that excitement should be tempered!
I am also reading a lot of posts that would indicate a reduction in B&O prices, or the introduction of new "low cost" ranges aimed at the "man in the street". Dream on guys!
You have had the BV8 and, in the main, none of you really liked it. Do you want more of the same????
While ever the manufacturing facility is in Struer, you will not get the sort of cheap, full featured audio or video products out of there ,that you guys want. The only place you can achieve this, at this time, is in China. This will inevitably will lead to compromises which you guys won't want.
Me, I come from an age when B&O showroom prices were always out of the reach of the "man in the street" and long may they continue to be so. It is all part of their desireability as far as I am concerned and separates me from the common herd.
Snob but honest???
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Kokomo
- Joined on 08-21-2007
- Spain
- Posts 618
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joeyboygolf:
Me, I come from an age when B&O showroom prices were always out of the reach of the "man in the street" and long may they continue to be so. It is all part of their desireability as far as I am concerned and separates me from the common herd.
Snob but honest???
Can't argue with that Joey. I think that was part of the pride in ownership, in that you could see 'behind' the product in a way others didn't or couldn't. A TV for example wasn't just 'a TV', there were lots of other brands about offering that. Most people I knew just couldn't get it, but a couple could and owned B&O themselves.
For fear of opening up this thread even more, I think that just as Loewe are a brand with a price premium over and above the mass market, B&O should similarly pitch themselves just above Loewe but not at such a level where, frankly, some products are at prices which, for many, renders them totally unattainable.
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Peter
- Joined on 02-12-2007
- Posts 9,572
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I think we have short memories. When I was young, B&O did make entry level products. Think Beolit, think the Beograms and the Beovox speakers. The cartridges were also very cheap, even compared to other makes. You could build a system gradually - my brother who is a bit younger started with a Beogram 1800 turntable - under £100, which was good value.
Products and expectations have moved on but I don't see that we cannot expect the entry level products to be fun and exciting. We will regard some of them as unnecessary and frivolous, but many won't. The BS8 is a huge success - I think B&O wish to build on this and expand. Let's not get too down before anything is actually seen.
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Larskoelle
- Joined on 10-03-2010
- Munich
- Posts 246
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Hi all,
lately I followed the conversation via Email notifications etc.
B&O updated their website.
http://www.bang-olufsen.de/goodbye-hello?nm_extag=Referrer%3DBannerAd%2Cfacebook%2Cwall20110819%2C0&cid={CA75FA24-BDB0-4B9B-B6A1-853D24C6939A}
Beo Time, A8, EarSet3i, EarSet2, BC2, BC6, BL3, BL11, Apple TV1, BEO Ballpen, BL2000, BL3500
Christmas 2010 Prize Draw 1st winner. BeoSound 9000 Mk3
Thank you
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moxxey
- Joined on 04-14-2007
- South West, UK
- Posts 2,360
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joeyboygolf:
It's my guess that the "new product category" will consist mainly of low cost items that have been sourced by a trawl around China, looking for items that can be stamped with the B&O logo and marketed through Apple stores.
I'm not sure that will give B&O the right impression. Although the headsets are made in China, they are fundementally B&O designed and developed. The Chinese factory simply follows the instructions from B&O.
Sourcing Chinese designed products is a different matter entirely!
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folkdeejay
- Joined on 06-07-2010
- Posts 206
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Well, the share price has risen, and seems to reflect a wider aproval in the corporate world.....
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/17/us-bangolufsen-idUSTRE77G35J20110817
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TripEnglish
- Joined on 10-27-2007
- America
- Posts 1,595
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Puncher:
I take it that you know the manufactured cost of the BS3 then, are you willing to share it with us?
Of course I do. All dealers know it. But I don't need to share it. I don't believe that you're unsophisticated enough to think that anyone is pocketing untoward amounts of money on these products. We make a pretty standard margin up the chain. But margin isn't the issue. It's price-point and even if I sold it at zero dollars in profit it wouldn't be cheap enough to push substantially more units and no business would manufacture a product to barely break even.
There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin
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Alex
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- New York, NY
- Posts 176
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joeyboygolf:
It's my guess that the "new product category" will consist mainly of low cost items that have been sourced by a trawl around China, looking for items that can be stamped with the B&O logo and marketed through Apple stores.
They will not be the type of item that will interest the majority of Beoworld members so I would suggest that excitement should be tempered!
I would presume that you've guessed wrong, fortunately. I've never heard of any manufacturer doing this much less a global luxury brand.
Store Manager
Bang & Olufsen Broadway
927 Broadway
New York, NY 10010
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Flappo
- Joined on 05-22-2010
- Posts 168
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You make it sound like stuff made in China is 3rd rate garbage - funny because almsot everything Apple sells is made in China and it regularly wins plaudits for it's construction and reliability. Things have moved on since the old days , ya know..
I think it's a very positive move for B&O and Apple. Best of both worlds.
Imagine Jony Ive and David Lewis on the same design team !!!!
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Kokomo
- Joined on 08-21-2007
- Spain
- Posts 618
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Flappo: I think it's a very positive move for B&O and Apple. Best of both worlds.
Wonderful Flappo - at last B&O!
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Flappo
- Joined on 05-22-2010
- Posts 168
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Sorry , I don't find it amusing mocking someone else's health , particularly when they've been close to death.
What exactly have you contributed to the world apart from a few snide comments ?
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Flappo
- Joined on 05-22-2010
- Posts 168
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Regarding saving b&o , why not train the sales force to follow Trip's legendary customer relations skills he so brilliantly displays on this board much to everyone's befuddled bemsuement ?
The next sentence removed by Peter
Back on topic - Paul does have a point - but imagine what they'd come up with ! HA
I really think it could be magical
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moxxey
- Joined on 04-14-2007
- South West, UK
- Posts 2,360
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Flappo:
You make it sound like stuff made in China is 3rd rate garbage
No no. No-one said things made in China is rubbish. I was saying that stuff designed in China might be. Someone mentioned about B&O sourcing existing products from China.
There's a BIG difference between Apple designing and closely monitoring the quality of production in China than sourcing something designed by a Chinese company.
If B&O went down the latter route, it wouldn't be B&O at all.
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moxxey
- Joined on 04-14-2007
- South West, UK
- Posts 2,360
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Can't post a reply, always ends up in moderation!
EDIT: appears to have been approved. Peter told me he spent 20 minutes removing all the swear words. Sorry Peter.
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sergi0
- Joined on 03-06-2011
- Posts 99
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Flappo:
You make it sound like stuff made in China is 3rd rate garbage - funny because almsot everything Apple sells is made in China and it regularly wins plaudits for it's construction and reliability. Things have moved on since the old days , ya know..
I think it's a very positive move for B&O and Apple. Best of both worlds.
Imagine Jony Ive and David Lewis on the same design team !!!!
Aren't you the one trolling on this one?
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Flappo
- Joined on 05-22-2010
- Posts 168
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What's trolling about that ?
Check out the PC Magazine awards Apple win EVERY year .
Peter's asked me very nicely to stop owning you lot so don't goad me thx.
TUE seems to realise that China is the new unplundered market with gigantic potential , about time you all realised the west is financially finished and the future is - look east young man ! No wonder Trip's always in a bad mood. LOL
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sergi0
- Joined on 03-06-2011
- Posts 99
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Kokomo:
For fear of opening up this thread even more, I think that just as Loewe are a brand with a price premium over and above the mass market, B&O should similarly pitch themselves just above Loewe but not at such a level where, frankly, some products are at prices which, for many, renders them totally unattainable.
I follow you on this one. Last year I bought an Individual Compose 52' with sound projector and motorized feet. It was almost 9k€. I choose it over B&O because It suited my need with the included media center and the hardrive. Everything was in it. The build quality is nice but not as nice as B&O. Well, still 1000 times ahead of other brands.
To be able to record straight from the TV and be able to see my media files directly from it is really a pleasure.
sergio
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