Paul Winn:

Kind of agree with Flappo

Same here, in some manners. The sound quality of B&O kit is great, but we sure do pay a premium for it. Plus it is a lifestyle decision. The stores are presented as a lifestyle decision - most people are buying in to the "snob value" as much as they are the quality. I do sometimes wonder if there's more of the former than the latter these days, particularly when I see the price of the BV10-46 (£8900)!

But as I've said many times, if I'm paying this premium I also expect B&O to cover all or most bases. Like Flappo said, we shouldn't be buying a £10K+ BV7-40 with Blu-ray and not be able to decode DTS-HD, yet be told that B&O is all about high end audio. That's a huge contradiction, to me!

Same with the Encore. They need to support every major/primary format, every major streaming standard if they want to prooduce a product like the Encore. The sad thing about many B&O users to me is that they accept second best with software support. It's been like that for a few years now.

Yes! It is a lifestyle decision. Now that I have seen the product and its specs I'm convinced. It truly is an amazing product of the highest quality and I will buy it. It fits into my lifestyle and it deserves a special place in the home I will build. I also hope that B&O will continue to make such beautiful products based on the Beonet. THANK YOU B&O FOR LAUNCHING THE ENCORE!

 

moxxey:

They need to support every major/primary format, every major streaming standard if they want to prooduce a product like the Encore. The sad thing about many B&O users to me is that they accept second best with software support. It's been like that for a few years now.

 

The only MAJOR format as you put it is presumably Apple Lossless. But why do you call it MAJOR. There is not so much Apple lossless around. The only way to get it, is rip it yourself or get it for somebody else! There are hardly sites to be found which sells is as an unique format.

So don't put me and others down as someone who accepts second best! I decided different then your opinion and it didn't include Apple lossless.

Carolpa:

The only MAJOR format as you put it is presumably Apple Lossless. But why do you call it MAJOR. 

I was talking about streaming standards not audio formats. I've not mentioned audio formats in any previous post!

If Encore is supposed to be a £2500 do-it-all streaming audio device (which it is), I'd expect it to support the premier market-leading audio streaming formats - AirPlay etc. That requires a license, but on a product at that price, I'd expect it to include the license.

No idea where you have got this lossless debate from.

B&O have a recent history of shipping goods that require a lot of software updates to bring them up to scratch. I can't tell you how many upgrades I've had for my various BV7-40's over the last three years, just to handle some basic TV control (ie. handling the Sky box). The reason for mentioning this is that someone said that they could expect AirPlay in a future software update. Perhaps. For me, that's not good enough. I'd struggle to justify buying it on the basis that it might gain support for X or Y in the the future, but us B&O customers have long accepted this. So the point is valid. If you're happily buying expensive equipment and hoping something will get fixed or added at a later date, fair enough. For me, that's accepting second best.

moxxey:

B&O have a recent history of shipping goods that require a lot of software updates to bring them up to scratch. I can't tell you how many upgrades I've had for my various BV7-40's over the last three years,

To be fair, I can't think of ANY *other* software based product that the same would not be said about as well.

 

Can you?

 

Barry

 

 

I totally agree with Moxxey, B&O should have attained a licence, just like cassette deck manufacturers had to obtain A Dolby noise reduction licence if they wanted this very much needed option.

I'm very pleased that I won't be buying an Encore, like a lot of B&O's range it is incomplete and dated before it even hits the shores. Sorry B&O but after 20 nearly 30 years of your products you've lost me as a customer. I just feel its Company that isn't going anywhere with an old designer label - bit like an old Pringle jumper!

Beosound 5 and Beosound 5 Encore use the UPnp/DLNA standard and support iTunes server on several remote file servers such as iomega.  It will play any file format except ALAC or Apple lossless.  There are many apps available for remote play on the Beosound 5.  Airplay is really not needed.  However it would be nice to have and maybe it will be added later.  

Beosound 5 Encore is closer in operation and sound quality to the many audiophile music servers that cost much more.  Although I use a Mac user, I rip in the FLAC format which sounds wonderful.  Lossless is lossless whether it is FLAC, Apple lossless, or Microsoft lossless.  Although I have a Beocenter 2, I rarely use it.  I plan on using Beosound 5 as my only music system.  My Beocenter 2 will be on ebay soon.  

What will be the price for your Beocenter 2? I might be interested :)

linder:

I plan on using Beosound 5 as my only music system.  My Beocenter 2 will be on ebay soon.  

sergio

bsantini:

To be fair, I can't think of ANY *other* software based product that the same would not be said about as well.

Oh come on. Did you read the discussions about software issues with the BV7-40? Many issues over many years. Beocom 5 was the same. So was the Beosound 5 when it was originally released. All three released as "beta" products, with us as the testers, with tons of software updates to get the *hardware* working as specified.

Luckily most recent B&O products can update themselves over the internet, which makes life a lot easier. However, you really can't justify the hassle BV7-40, Beocom 5 and original Beosound 5 users experienced.

There aren't many hardware products released which require so many software upgrades. And by "software", I mean firmware.

linder:

My Beocenter 2 will be on ebay soon.  

I may buy it from you and connect an Airport Express to it. I still have a Beocenter wall mount (hidden) which I used with my original Beocenter 2. This is an iconic DVD/CD player, IMHO. Never used mine much as I bought a BV7-40 with builtin DVD player. Ended up selling it a couple of years ago. Regret that sale - it's probably the only regret I have.

However, why do you need the Encore? I can connect the Express to a Beosound 4 or Beocenter 2 and allow them to connect to my AirPlay-powered setup and use my iPhone or iPad to control the music played through these devices. Better than the Encore, as it stands.

moxxey:

bsantini:

To be fair, I can't think of ANY *other* software based product that the same would not be said about as well.

Oh come on. Did you read the discussions about software issues with the BV7-40? Many issues over many years. Beocom 5 was the same. So was the Beosound 5 when it was originally released. All three released as "beta" products, with us as the testers, with tons of software updates to get the *hardware* working as specified.

Luckily most recent B&O products can update themselves over the internet, which makes life a lot easier. However, you really can't justify the hassle BV7-40, Beocom 5 and original Beosound 5 users experienced.

There aren't many hardware products released which require so many software upgrades. And by "software", I mean firmware.

 

I sorry I wasn't clear: I'm saying that almost *any* software based product is beta tested by purchasers.  It can't be any other way, if you think about it.  It's really about how *fast* corrections are made and uploadable by the purchaser.

 

B

My BC2 is a MK1 US version.  I haven't thought of a price.

 

bsantini:

I sorry I wasn't clear: I'm saying that almost *any* software based product is beta tested by purchasers.  It can't be any other way, if you think about it.  It's really about how *fast* corrections are made and uploadable by the purchaser.

Yes, but Panasonic, Sony and Samsung TVs don't ship was as many s/w issues as the BV7-40 went through. Lots of things just didn't work, particularly with a Sky box. The Beocom 5 was the same. I've had phones from other manufacturers and they do what they say on the tin. The Becom 5 didn't even do some of the basics properly. It hung up when you put it in speakerphone mode during a call. Basic telephony!

Sometimes I wonder if B&O did this deliberately knowing the dealer could perform updates when they fixed issues after launching their products.

Anyway, the Encore is at least updatable via the internet, which is a big bonus.

moxxey:

bsantini:

To be fair, I can't think of ANY *other* software based product that the same would not be said about as well.

Oh come on. Did you read the discussions about software issues with the BV7-40? Many issues over many years. Beocom 5 was the same. So was the Beosound 5 when it was originally released. All three released as "beta" products, with us as the testers, with tons of software updates to get the *hardware* working as specified.

Luckily most recent B&O products can update themselves over the internet, which makes life a lot easier. However, you really can't justify the hassle BV7-40, Beocom 5 and original Beosound 5 users experienced.

There aren't many hardware products released which require so many software upgrades. And by "software", I mean firmware.

There is another more worrying issue of course. Take the BS3 which should have handled MA but cant- no software upgrade will fix that. So the encore is an expensive piece of electronics which is flawed .

moxxey:

No idea where you have got this lossless debate from.

@Moxxey

Sorry, but you did give a refference to formats! And go back to the first second page of this discussion, where you made the remark about Apple Lossles.

As before: you like a concept with the spec's or you don't. Eventually you will buy it or you won't. Maybe it is not to your expentation, so be it. Maybe in your eyes it should have other spec's, but it doesn't. 

This can be the same for your house, car, pc or mac, or.............. 

What is up to your standard you will go for. But this does not mean that other products are "flawed" and it certainly doesn't mean that others go for second best!

 

This is the same for me for the Airport concept. It doesn't for me. I do not like the iTunes concept. This does not mean I do not like Apple products (this is writen on an iMac) and I love my iPad.

 

 

Carolpa:

Sorry, but you did give a refference to formats! And go back to the first second page of this discussion, where you made the remark about Apple Lossles.

It was more of a passing reference! The general debate is about AirPlay support. You're arguing about nothing.

I'll drop out of this discussion as it won't lead to anything productive. Good luck with your Encore purchase.

In one of my first posts in this thread I realy missed the point because I asked myself: Why should I buy a xxxx thousand Euro system to listen to MP3 files? Yep, I didn't thought far enough.

I think the Beosound 5 Encore can be THE multiroom audio solution I was looking for in combination with my "normal" Beosound 5.

I hope it will be able to access WMA losless or FLAC in Multiroom mode and not only MP3s.

I think it's a good solution to add Airplay functionality "externaly" with an Airport Express: In this case B&O is not dependent on Apple but can attract the iPhone-Generation by showing, that you can use that nice B&O Hardwaresystem with your iPhone, iPad etc.

The Encore with its aux-in- and USB-port on the Front is a good solution that should have been integrated in the original Beosound 5. With the Encore it's easy to let a friend plug in his MP3 player or phone via front Aux-In, USB-Port or just use Airplay via a connected Airport Express. 
Or on a party you just hook up an extermal Harddrive with partymusic and you don't have to "contaminate" your fine existing music library ;-)

Hopefully B&O updates the Beo 6 Wifi functionality to comfortably browse through your Beosound 5 music library (not everybody wants to use his phone at home for that) 

@Moxxey

Thanks

 

I agree the discussion is going a long time in a pointless direction. Also your latest .......

 

Presumably we agree to disagree.

 

 

End of discussion

Hmmm ... someone referred to AirPlay as the market leader but that's dead wrong.  UPnP is actually the market leader and the standard that's been around for much longer.  AirPlay is the new kid on the block, and it still has a long way to go before it's going to be a standard thing with any manufacturer.  Keep in mind you mentioned it's the "market leader" but there isn't even more than just a couple hacks available that will let you AirPlay from iOS device to iOS device or from iOS device to PC.  Sorry but that doesn't much seem like market dominance to me.

I think moxxey was reffering to the fact that when Apple enter a market ( that's not a closed shop like the ms desktop ) they tend to dominate it. See Mp3 players , Mobile Phones , iTunes etc etc

If BNO think they don't need Apple , good luck with that closed blinkered view - it's what got them in deep doo doo last time. The only succesful product they've made in the last few years is the bs8 ipad/ipod dock. Nuff said...

This time next year Apple will have their own Tv's out and it'll be syanora bno , baby. Unless of course the deitys at BNO deign those plebs at APPLE worthy of their attention..

I am a great fan of Apple, and own an iPhone, iTouch, iPad, Apple TV, iMac, Macbook Pro and plan to purchase a new Macbook Air.

I just do not understand this all consuming frenzy that any B and O product that has not been Appleized is inferior junk.

It's somewhat like saying a Bentley or an Aston Martin is outdated and a piece of junk because it does not have General Motors Onstar in it.

I can stream music from my iPhone and iPad to my Beosound 5. I can control the Beosound 5 with the iPad/iPhone. I can play music on the iPad/iPhone that is on the Beosound 5/Beomaster 5, all wirelessly. And, I can do that all without Airplay. Or with one simple cable, I could use Airplay, but why? It would give me no more functionality that I am aware of.

And, those people who dare buy an Android phone, (yes there are those out there who do not idolize and worship Apple and do buy other brands), can do the same with their Android.

There is a world out there where people and products do just fine without Apple.

Bottom line is, if you want Apple, buy Apple. If you want B and O, buy B and O. The two are not mutually exclusive, nor do they need to be mutually compatible.

Time for me to go take my iPad, open an app, turn the entire system on with the app, select a piece of music from the app, read the album notes that will appear in the app, adjust the volume on the System from the app, watch the volume display change on the BV7 as I adjust it on the app, and listen to some music........all without Airplay.

Razlaw:

It's somewhat like saying a Bentley or an Aston Martin is outdated and a piece of junk because it does not have General Motors Onstar in it.

I don't know what a Onstar is, but ...

"It's somewhat like saying a Bentley or Aston Martin is outdated and a piece of junk because it only has a cassette player" and then requires you to purchase an FM transmitter or a fake cassette for you portable CD player to interface it with your brand new car

I love the Encore as much as I love the motorised heated leather seats of an expensive car and I will probably buy an Encore (since I can better afford it than an Audi A8 !), but I will always feel a little cheated because I know that it could have been just that little bit better

Razlaw:

Bottom line is, if you want Apple, buy Apple. If you want B and O, buy B and O. The two are not mutually exclusive, nor do they need to be mutually compatible.

Apple do not produce hi-fi equipment (nor, at this stage, TVs). Buying Apple equipment to handle this side of our requirements isn't an option, so saying "if you want Apple, buy Apple" is plain daft.

Any successful long-term *small* brand does well supporting widely adopted standards. Whilst B&O's rivals (B&W etc) are supporting all available standards, B&O stand firm on not bothering to support one of the market leading streaming standards. And it is one of the market leading. Millions of people are using iPhones, Macs, iPads etc and these people have an iTunes library. Even Windows users.

Most of these people do not have the technical skills nor willpower to starting installing Twonky Media simply to link their iTunes audio to their B&O equipment.

Razlaw, if you're happy that B&O won't support AirPlay, that's completely your call. If you buy a Beosound 5 and prefer this option over other devices, that's also your call. Most of the time though you come across has justifying your purchasing decisions in your head, rather than making any truly valid comments. It's like saying that because you've found a way around something (and installing Twonky Media is just a compromise, really) and it's made you happy, saying you can't see why anyone else would want it is just niave.

As I've mentioned before, I bought a Beosound 5/Master and, frankly, it was one of my worst ever purchasing decisions. I thought it was that bad. I'll admit I was an early adopter, but the software was poor, Master crashed and more. It got my back up and has made me very cautious of committing to the Encore as a result.

moxxey:

Razlaw:

Bottom line is, if you want Apple, buy Apple. If you want B and O, buy B and O. The two are not mutually exclusive, nor do they need to be mutually compatible.

Apple do not produce hi-fi equipment (nor, at this stage, TVs). Buying Apple equipment to handle this side of our requirements isn't an option, so saying "if you want Apple, buy Apple" is plain daft.

Any successful long-term *small* brand does well supporting widely adopted standards. Whilst B&O's rivals (B&W etc) are supporting all available standards, B&O stand firm on not bothering to support one of the market leading streaming standards. And it is one of the market leading. Millions of people are using iPhones, Macs, iPads etc and these people have an iTunes library. Even Windows users.

Most of these people do not have the technical skills nor willpower to starting installing Twonky Media simply to link their iTunes audio to their B&O equipment.

Razlaw, if you're happy that B&O won't support AirPlay, that's completely your call. If you buy a Beosound 5 and prefer this option over other devices, that's also your call. Most of the time though you come across has justifying your purchasing decisions in your head, rather than making any truly valid comments. It's like saying that because you've found a way around something (and installing Twonky Media is just a compromise, really) and it's made you happy, saying you can't see why anyone else would want it is just niave.

As I've mentioned before, I bought a Beosound 5/Master and, frankly, it was one of my worst ever purchasing decisions. I thought it was that bad. I'll admit I was an early adopter, but the software was poor, Master crashed and more. It got my back up and has made me very cautious of committing to the Encore as a result.

I merely expressed an opinion. I did not engage in personal attacks such as "daft" and "naive". Apparently you can only attempt to express your opinions by resorting to personal insults. 

 

 

moxxey:

Most of these people do not have the technical skills nor willpower to starting installing Twonky Media simply to link their iTunes audio to their B&O equipment.

 

And most BeoSound 5 users who end up using Twonky server to navigate their BeSound 5 will never know what Twonky is or how to install it.  Most BeoSound 5 users who end up streaming airplay via a USB adapter and airport express will never even know these bits of equipment exist.

I'm not arguing the pros and cons of airplay here, but making a point I have seen made several times before and yet it keeps being ignored.  B&O sell a solution to a type of customer, and part of that solution is dealer installation and backup.  The vast majority of customers who buy the current B&O products will never find this site, simply because anything to do with their system is handled by their dealer.

A couple of weeks ago they will have got a message on screen of the BS5 to tell them they can now stream from their phone and to contact their dealer.  Those who did will have then had the dealer turn up with the requied bits to make this new functionality work (probably while they were at work), they will have no idea, nor any inclination to care, how this happened, all they know or care about is that it now works.  They pay their bill, and are a happy customer.

My brother has a current B&O products throughout his home and loves them.  He is a very busy lawyer, and has no idea about the technicalities.  If you asked him where his BeoMaster 5 was he would have no idea, he has never seen it as our dealer installed it in his loft.  He is made up that he can control what the BS5 is doing from his phone, but where my background is IT and I understand how this happens, he couldn't care less.

Users of this site might be suprised to learn that those of us who are interested in how these things work in tha B&O customer base are massively outnumbered by those who only care about the end result, and probably think airplay is some sort of bedroom activity involving a bicycle pump