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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 02-15-2012 3:45 PM by mbee. 255 replies.
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  • 07-21-2011 8:16 AM In reply to

    • christophe67
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    • St Julien En Genevois (74), France
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    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    Hey all

    Price in Geneva, Switzerland is CHF 3690.

    ETA in the store is in 2 weeks. they already have all the commercial banners but not the device itself

    Christopphe

     

    My B&O devices : Beosystem 2300 - Beosound 4 - Beosound 5 - Beolab 4000 - Beolab 4 - Beo4 - Beo5 - Beotime - Earset 3i

  • 07-21-2011 8:43 AM In reply to

    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    Kokomo:
    Apple tries to dictate the whole world and that is NOT a good sign (see the new Mac mini that even lacks a Discdrive!)

    It seems to me that B&O is also discontinuing CD and DVD products as well.

  • 07-21-2011 11:54 AM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-14-2007
    • South West, UK
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    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    TWG:

    My opinion:

    It is a complete overkill to buy a Beosound 5, Beosound 5 Encore and B&O speakers if you just want to listen to your AAC- or MP3-Files from iTunes or Amazon.

    You miss the point, miss the point entirely.

    Most users - myself included - have tracks from the iTunes Store, tracks they may have ripped using iTunes (from CD), as well as their regular CD tracks.

    The Encore is supposed to be a "do it all" device that brings together all sources and enables you to control and play them. It does not. It won't support the Apple encoded formats.

    Which means, either:

    1) You ignore every track you've either bought from iTunes or encoded using iTunes. And as iTunes represents a huge proportion of many people's collection, B&O are affectively ruling out this section of the market and it's a big market.

    or

    2) You need to go back and encode everything again in a format the Encore understands. Unless you're some kind of mentalist and have too much time on your hands, then most people just do not have the resources to do this. And why should we?

     

    The thing is, what are you going to buy the Encore for, exactly? Is it only aimed at users who have used CDs and now want a way of storing digital music and have never used iTunes or similar stores?

    I *want* to buy an Encore and I want it to control every aspect of my music collection, whatever the format. And I'm quite prepared to pay £2500 for it to do this. Exceptional money. I expect B&O to have negotiated and paid the royalties to make this happen and incorporated it in to the cost of the Encore - in return, I'll pay top dollar for the privilege.

  • 07-21-2011 1:03 PM In reply to

    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    moxxey:

    It won't support the Apple encoded formats.

     

    Here we go again!

    BS5 can play M4a, M4b, etc. But no Apple Lossless. Presumably the same for the BS5 encore

    Further, almost all bought files on iTunes are Apple LOSSY. So if you have lots of Apple Lossless files you ripped them probably yourself or you did get them another way. Eighter way you could made it easily in to a BS5 known format!

     

    On top: with the BS5 one can play also HD music (up to 192kHz, 24bit). Presumably the same for the BS5 encore.

     

     

     

     

     


  • 07-21-2011 1:24 PM In reply to

    • Puncher
    • Top 10 Contributor
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    • Joined on 03-27-2007
    • Nr. Durham, NE England.
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    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    Carolpa:

    moxxey:

    It won't support the Apple encoded formats.

     

     

    Here we go again!

    BS5 can play M4a, M4b, etc. But no Apple Lossless. Presumably the same for the BS5 encore

    Further, almost all bought files on iTunes are Apple LOSSY. So if you have lots of Apple Lossless files you ripped them probably yourself or you did get them another way. Eighter way you could made it easily in to a BS5 known format!

     

     

    On top: with the BS5 one can play also HD music (up to 192kHz, 24bit). Presumably the same for the BS5 encore.

     

    Moxxey's point is that with Airplay proper they could be streamed direct without having to worry about formats or having to convert between whatever - i.e a seamless and hassle-free experience from any audio source to your B&O speakers is what he wants. It would also mean that the lossless files would take advantage of the BS5 DAC rather than having to connect via an analogue connection from Airport Express and having to use the DAC of the Express which will severely dent the quality of the lossless source being played.

    Or am I mistaken?Unsure

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 07-21-2011 1:26 PM In reply to

    • mbee
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-18-2007
    • Paris, France
    • Posts 1,133
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    I have 2 big reasons to be really interested in the Encore :

    1. MOTS. It seems very simple, but it is not. Nowadays, everyone has thousands of digital tracks, and there are a lot of things to play them. I'm really happy with my Sonos+B&O system, but I do like everyone do : I don't listen to my entire collection, just the "albums of the moment". With MOTS, I could rediscover my collection everyday. I can't count the number of tracks that are not recognised by Apple Genius, MOTS will not forget them!

    2. Support of HD tracks. I'm switching from lossy to lossless, and maybe I will upgrade my Beolabs one day, so I want to be able to enjoy this kind of tracks.

    What I would like to do that isn't implemented yet :

    I would also like to have integrated support of Airplay, because I would like to be able to listen to the sound of a video or an app (not my music library, of course, it is better to listen to it via the Encore directly) of my iPad through my Beolabs. Connecting an Airport Express is not a good solution as it uses the only Aux connection available, and is poor sound with the integrated DAC.

    I also would like to be able to play Deezer/Spotify directly on the system, as I do today with my Sonos. But Spotify+MOTS seems complicated, so maybe MOTS will make me less Spotify-dependant!

    What I can live without :
    Support of Apple Lossless files. I was asking for that 2 years ago with the BS5, but now I have understood that Apple doesn't want to share this algorithm, and FLAC is at least equivalent (I believe better, as it's totally open source, it is played by a lot of things). I must confess that I hae to music library : the "qualitative one" on my NAS, used for home listening, and the "light one" (mainly aac 256) on my Mac, used to feed my iPhone. Flash memory is still too expensive to have enough lossless music on an iPhone. And for those who have already converted all their music ibrary to Apple Lossless, just put everything in XLD (free Mac software), and it will be converted in FLAC incredibly fast!

  • 07-21-2011 2:54 PM In reply to

    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    Puncher:

    Carolpa:

    moxxey:

    It won't support the Apple encoded formats.

     

     

    Here we go again!

    BS5 can play M4a, M4b, etc. But no Apple Lossless. Presumably the same for the BS5 encore

    Further, almost all bought files on iTunes are Apple LOSSY. So if you have lots of Apple Lossless files you ripped them probably yourself or you did get them another way. Eighter way you could made it easily in to a BS5 known format!

     

     

    On top: with the BS5 one can play also HD music (up to 192kHz, 24bit). Presumably the same for the BS5 encore.

     

     

    Moxxey's point is that with Airplay proper they could be streamed direct without having to worry about formats or having to convert between whatever - i.e a seamless and hassle-free experience from any audio source to your B&O speakers is what he wants. It would also mean that the lossless files would take advantage of the BS5 DAC rather than having to connect via an analogue connection from Airport Express and having to use the DAC of the Express which will severely dent the quality of the lossless source being played.

    Or am I mistaken?Unsure

    I understand your point made. But why not complain at Apple to improve their Airport Express' DAC. The scope of a BS5 (encore) is completely different then just to stream music from an other device!


  • 07-21-2011 3:02 PM In reply to

    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    Carolpa:
    It would also mean that the lossless files would take advantage of the BS5 DAC rather than having to connect via an analogue connection from Airport Express and having to use the DAC of the Express which will severely dent the quality of the lossless source being played.

    Just for info, the Airport express also has a digital output, so you can use another DAC if necessary. The format used by Apple is also the format used in broadcasting, so the quality is considered as good as CD even by pros it seems.

    p.

  • 07-21-2011 3:24 PM In reply to

    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    oops

    your right Phil I didn't think about this; an additional point made. But the quote is directed to the wrong person 

     


  • 07-21-2011 3:36 PM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-14-2007
    • South West, UK
    • Posts 2,360
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    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    Puncher:

    Moxxey's point is that with Airplay proper they could be streamed direct without having to worry about formats or having to convert between whatever - i.e a seamless and hassle-free experience from any audio source to your B&O speakers is what he wants. 

    Correct. It would be good for the Encore to be an all-in-one device which could do it all, without having to connect an Airport Express and/or other devices to enable it to spool the audio. I want it to be able to find my Mac's iTunes library, audio on my iPad or elsewhere, then offer to play this through the Encore and also be remotely controlled via the Apple Remote device.

    I'm not against the Encore - I've been one of those waiting patiently for the release - it just would have been good to have it all, from the start. Perhaps we'll see the inclusion at a later date. However, much like the Beosound 8 MKI, I'd rather have had this from the beginning.

  • 07-21-2011 4:00 PM In reply to

    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    deleted!


  • 07-21-2011 4:10 PM In reply to

    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

     

    <p>The thing is, what are you going to buy the Encore for, exactly? 

    1/ I would buy the Encore primarily as a tangible interface of my centralised digital music library. A product which my wife could easily use. The music would be stored on a NAS and I would control it using a smart programme installed eg on my Ipad and my laptop. Next to that I would connect a blue ray player (which serves the projector) via the Aux-in to the Encore.

     

    2/ Is it only aimed at users who have used CDs and now want a way of storing digital music and have never used iTunes or similar stores?</p>

    Yes, I am afraid this may be well the case. But how much of B&O clientele would that be, 80, 85 or 90 per cent? This also holds true for myself having around 1400 cd's.

     

    3/ <p>I want to buy an Encore and I want it to control every aspect of my music collection, whatever the format.<p>

    If there is a good interface programme, acceptable formats are lossless, and there is good cover art available for the albums I am happy. (Maybe FLAC is possible for instance?)

     

    Future is bright for me also! Since the encore has a digital out it will allow me to connect it directly to the BL5 when I will buy these in a near future. What a system...

     

    IMO video streaming is not an issue here as there is eg AppleTV for this purpose and that's another product which I rather would connect to a TV. Why then such a fuss about AE.

    BC2 DAB, Lab 1, Lab Penta, beo4, beocord 1101.

  • 07-21-2011 4:57 PM In reply to

    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    Ehlerz:

    moxxey:

    Couldn't they have built AirPlay support in to the Encore? If B&W can do it for the far cheaper Zeppelin, surely B&O can include this in the Encore?

     

    Exactly my point, i actually think it is a bit embarresing to advertise the encore this way. There is absolutly nothing new to this. They might aswell advertise ALL their other audioproducts this way because ALL of them can do this when you include an AE. But then again, knowing B&O develompemt cycles, when they started producing the encore, Airplay probably didnt even exist...Actually, WIFI probably didnt exist. So if you take that into consideration, this is actually pretty awsome :-)

    So if you allready have a Masterlinked B&O audioproduct, do yourself a favour and buy a macmini and an AE instead. This way you will save a lots of money and have the exact same features, just better.

    /Ehlerz

    Agreed! Advertising Airplay on the BeoSound 5 like this reminds me of companies that advertise that their software is Mac-compatible -- via Bootcamp or Parallels running Windows ontop of the Mac OS.

  • 07-22-2011 4:37 AM In reply to

    • BeoGreg
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 07-24-2008
    • South of France
    • Posts 139
    • Gold Member

    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    So, I played with the Encore last evening.

    Use is, of course, similar to a Beosound 5 wich I'm absolutely not found of.

    For me, those wheels are too complicated to use : choose albums, tracks, styles, singers...all that standing in front of the system.

    With my BS9000 at least, I can see the cd's far away :-)

    Beo6 (not available) will be a must then.

    You have access to 13.000 internet radios and the music from the Encore was on a tiny USB stick. No ML of course.

    Sound was very good with Lab3's.

    Price is 3.165 € including Beo4 (240 €) and table stand.

    Cheers,

    Gregory

     

    Since 1995 : Beosound Century, Beolink 1000, Beocom 2400, Beovision MX 6000, Beocord VX 7000, Beo 4, LC2, Beosound Ouverture, Beolab 2500, Beocom 6000, Beolab 8000, Beosound 9000, Beovision Avant 32, Keyring, Bottle opener, Beosound 2, A8, Beosound 3, Beovision 10-40, Beo 4 Navigation, BeoTime, Beocom 5, Form 2...  

  • 07-22-2011 4:50 AM In reply to

    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    Unfortunately I think the whole concept of Beosound 5 and Encore is flawed.

    You shouldn't have to stand up and use close-up operation to choose your music. B&O was the first to introduce music systems with remote controls or, even better, control panels.

    The navigation should be on the remote.

    BeoMaster 5 + Beo6 should be the combo. However B&O have appearantly disabled Beo6 2 way navigation on the BM5 if you do not connect the BS5 to it. Silly.

  • 07-22-2011 5:50 AM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-14-2007
    • South West, UK
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    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    PhilLondon:

    The navigation should be on the remote.

    Which is exactly what the iPad offers, using AirPlay, with my Airport Express connected to BeoSound 4/BL3s.

    I'm using the iPod app on the iPad, with it on my office desk and can use it to control the music playing through the BS4, the volume, move between tracks, create a playlist and, if necessary, pick up the iPad and walk around with it or take it to another room. It's like your own Sonos. Of course, you could do the same thing with an iPhone, iPod Touch etc.

    Which is why I asked why are B&O showing a Beosound Encore connected to BL3s and the Airport Express, being controlled via an iPhone? You could ditch the Encore and connect the Express directly to the BL3s and achieve exactly the same thing! The Encore in that example is superfluous :(

    I want to buy the Encore, but I fear it's going to be a very expensive visual toy. I was told by my dealer it could be £2900.

    It might be far cheaper to buy another BS4 or BS3200, both with a CD player (I still have CDs ;) and simply control them via the iPad/iPod/iPhone, as a remote!

  • 07-22-2011 6:15 AM In reply to

    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    As I read this forum correctly.

    The Beosound should run iTunes, it must be controlled bij iPhone/iPad/etc, it must handle Apple Lossless, it must have Airport installed, it must breath and smell like Apple. 

    But it should be B&o, it should have a B&o identity, it should sound as B&o, it should look like B&o.

     

    B&o =/= Apple

    Apple =/= B&o

     

    its a free world, if you dont like B&o or Apple fine............

    if you prefer Apple, fine................. if you will not buy it, fine......................

    if you prefer B&o, fine................. if you will not buy it, fine......................

     


  • 07-22-2011 6:29 AM In reply to

    • Puncher
    • Top 10 Contributor
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    • Nr. Durham, NE England.
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    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    Carolpa:

    As I read this forum correctly.

    The Beosound should run iTunes, it must be controlled bij iPhone/iPad/etc, it must handle Apple Lossless, it must have Airport installed, it must breath and smell like Apple. 

    But it should be B&o, it should have a B&o identity, it should sound as B&o, it should look like B&o.

     

    B&o =/= Apple

    Apple =/= B&o

     

    its a free world, if you dont like B&o or Apple fine............

    if you prefer Apple, fine................. if you will not buy it, fine......................

    if you prefer B&o, fine................. if you will not buy it, fine......................

     

     

    Whereas I read -

    The Beosound should read all formats from iTunes and it should be controllable via a remote device on which your music collection is easily and clearly navigable complete with cover art.

    A reasonable request I think, the remote doesn't have to be an Apple anything, a B&O unit which functions as well would be preferable.

    The two points listed above were identified on this forum even before the release of the BS5/BM5 and are, I believe, still valid.

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 07-22-2011 6:32 AM In reply to

    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    I am in a similar position, I would love to buy the Encore, I like the overall design but the irony is that the 3 keys and 3 wheels are for me extremely complicated to use!I think a navigation wheel like that found on my Serenata or even BeoCom 4 would have been far easier to use, with just a separate wheel for volume control. Or why not keeping the same wheel as the one on BeoCenter 2? That would have made stepping through albums/playlists much easier.

    Having a BeoPort, with an Iphone acting as a 2-way remote, you get much better feedback & interaction than with the Encore (or BS5, of course), as long as you use the Mac version of BeoPort (and with a high-end DAC). Besides, the Beo6 will never be as fast as an Iphone, I think it doesn't even display cover art in 500 x 500 Ko.

    The lack of ALAC playback is a major minus for me (I hear people say it is licenced by Apple and that reverse-engineering that codec is illegal....but so is the CD copying that we all do on our hard drives!), but that's not all:

    what about gapless playback? NRADIO "live" metadata (still no track/artist names?)? Direct USB connection for Ipod/Iphone (like in BS8)? Playback of multiple albums/compilations? In other words, does it still have the same limitations as BM5?

    B&O has made great improvements in the BS5 concept, but there's still a lot to do, for me at least. I'll keep waiting!

     

    Reunion Island is greeting you!

  • 07-22-2011 6:45 AM In reply to

    • shl
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 01-18-2008
    • Posts 17
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    Could not agree more. My current setup with macmini with beoport, DAC and linkplayer works much more efficent. I still have my old 9000 hocked up in the system, but only use it for the AUX from the TV. I guess I could sell that too and run audio in to the macmini.

    With this setup I can use the beo 4 for simple navigation and my ipad or iphone for navigation in content.

    B&O must try to turn this around and make more of a HUB for all my devices. I want a BS5 that has several digital ins a kickass DAC and possibilty for surround setup.

  • 07-22-2011 6:45 AM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
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    • South West, UK
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    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    Carolpa:

    B&o =/= Apple

    Eh? The Encore is supposed to be a do-it-all central device that uses music from various non-B&O sources. If you want a B&O-only device, then the Beosound 5 + Master is your combination. Plus it's very very expensive.

    It's B&O that are using AirPlay to promote the Encore. They are using the Airport Express as a device and the iPhone as a remote. It's in their advert. My argument is....you could leave out the Encore and simply connect the BL3s to the Airport Express and achive exactly the same functionality as the B&O Encore advert :)

  • 07-22-2011 7:02 AM In reply to

    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    moxxey:
    It might be far cheaper to buy another BS4 or BS3200, both with a CD player (I still have CDs ;) and simply control them via the iPad/iPod/iPhone, as a remote!

    Or spend the money on upgraded speakers !

    First B&O (1976) was a Beogram 1500 ... latest (2011) change has been to couple the BL11 with the BL6Ks *sounds superb*

  • 07-22-2011 7:12 AM In reply to

    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    I think B&O has signed its' own death card with this very foolish product. The fact that Tue pretends that the BS5 is his 'favourite product' on the B&O site simply makes him look like any other sales person.

    Will a new generation buy into this product? You got to be kidding. How stupid can this company be at times? Even basic home cinemas (Pioneer etc) are now coming with AirPlay built in. Ignoring iTunes/Airplay is like building a sports car and making it incompatible with rubber tyres!!!

    Im sure they'll they'll be bring out 4:3 ratio TVs next!!!

  • 07-22-2011 7:19 AM In reply to

    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    Sounds like the same old things......

     

    If a B&O product cant do what Apple can do.......it gets blasted.

    If a B&O product can do the same as an Apple product......its too expensive .....and it gets blasted.

    If a B&O product cand do the same as an Apple product and is comparable cost......it is an Apple and not B&O.....and it gets blasted.

     

    TBH, I wish the Apple worshipers in here would just f...f....flick-off to the Apple forums. Us B&O worshipers know B&O will never be as good as Apple or cost 10 times less. So what? We understand this and enjoy our hobbie. Why continually keep on about the same thing? At the end of the day you just want an Apple product with a B&O badge on it - and that wont be B&O.

    Ciao!

    10

    S

  • 07-22-2011 7:44 AM In reply to

    • shl
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 01-18-2008
    • Posts 17
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Beosound 5 Encore is here...

    They are making very strange choices compared to what is happening in the marked, excluding their users from a all over good experience. They need to take a close look at what experiences they can control and not. I think also they would be well served with taking a step away from hardware and use more time on software. Except of course speakers. The music and TV business is in rapid change and will be for at least 10 more years.

    A connectionbox with digital in/out, DAC, surround etc. paired with a option for simple onscreen control on TV, iPad, Android device or whatever coming. They can even have a BS5 like device controlling it, but just as a option. Giving the user the possibility to set up their excellent b&o speakers and have the supreme b&o experience through every device.

    So much more cost efficent to make software updates and using open APIs to control whatever comes along.

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