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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 06-17-2011 3:50 PM by 9 LEE. 65 replies.
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  • 04-20-2011 6:31 AM In reply to

    • Kokomo
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    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    When 3D tvs began to emerge from other manufacturers and threads appeared on this forum asking when/if B&O would enter the market, there were many posts basically rubbishing the future of 3D. Of course they may, in the long term, be correct but I notice in the case of this particular thread announcing the arrival of B&O to 3D set production, the scoffers and doubters are suddenly very quiet!

  • 04-20-2011 6:51 AM In reply to

    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    I believe that was because earlier it wasn't that clear that adding 3D support doesn't actually need to cost that much extra. Basically, all that is needed is a fast enough panel, updated HDMI, some extra video processing / software, and control for the glasses. If the processing hardware of the old BS3 already had enough throughput for the frame rate, it probably wasn't a huge R&D effort either.

    Finally, it's a bit like the camera phones - it's a feature you don't need to use if you don't want to. It may still turn out to be just a fad, but it's there now.

    -mika

  • 04-20-2011 6:55 AM In reply to

    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    Im surprised that B&O went the active glasses route.

    A seminar i took from the 3D Consortium last month said that all 3D is moving to the circular polarized, non - active glasses route.

    Just saying...

    B
  • 04-20-2011 7:35 AM In reply to

    • mbee
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    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    Yes, that's true : the industry is moving to passive glasses... So will be B&O... In less than 10 years! Big Smile

  • 04-20-2011 9:43 AM In reply to

    • mjmedlo
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    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    Is anyone other than me unimpressed with 3D at home?

    Really??? WHo wants to come home to put on your cumbersome 3D glasses to watch TV?

    I think it's a horrible waste of design effort and time. . 

    I'll take my BV9 all day every day over any size 3D panel. .Yes, I realize that it plays HD signals as well. .  but why the obsession with 3D?

    I just don't understand it. . I want my television to be a break from reality, not so real that it puts me back in the action.  I enjoy the feeling of being on the couch and the TV being a 'break' from reality. . .

    Does anyone share these sentiments?

    Also, I have heard that DVI is going away and our older BS3 will become obsolete?

    Supposedly, HDMI signals will not pass through a processor and allow themselves to be 'down converted' to DVI. . .Has anyone heard this?

    I did notice that HDMI was used to connect this BV4-85. . but, I know that HDMI connections are required to get the beloved 3D picture. . .

    I'm ready for something new that I actually want to buy!

  • 04-20-2011 10:14 AM In reply to

    • mbee
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    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    You're not alone...

    The fact is that the interest of customers for 3D TVs has been far lower than expected this year. People just don't want to use glasses (mainly those horrible active shutter glasses, there is a far better customer satisfaction with passive polarized glasses), they don't want to pay that much for glasses, and... They want to have 3D content to put in their TVs!

    3D is a gadget, and appart some movies like Avatar or Pina (by Wim Wender) where 3D is used with intelligence, this technology doesn't add anything to a movie experience.

    But TV manufacturers want to keep their sales figures as high as they where with the transition from CRT TVs to flatscreens. So now that the picture quality of flatscreen has reached a step where the new TV doesn't makes your old set totally outdated, manufacturers try to make people think "hey, I don't have XXX gadget, my TV is totally outdated, I have to shop for a new one!"

    Today it's active shutter glasses 3D, tomorrow it will be passive 3D (ok, it's already today, I'm astonished that B&O didn't choose to go directly this way, because all studies proves that it provides a really better viewing experience), and then 2K and 4K definition, and after that glasses-free 3D (you need a 4K TV to get a perfect 1080p glasses-free 3D). The path of obsolescence is already traced.

    But my CRT-TV is still working! Big Smile (ok, I also have a Beovision 8 40...)

  • 04-20-2011 10:20 AM In reply to

    • Kokomo
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    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    I just don't understand it. . I want my television to be a break from reality, not so real that it puts me back in the action. I enjoy the feeling of being on the couch and the TV being a 'break' from reality. . .

    Agree with you to a large extent, but if your needs were reflected by many other consumers we wouldn't have the huge domestic TV screens we are now are seeing and we wouldn't have multi-surround sound systems belting out earth shattering decibels!

    Being 'in the action' seems to be what's wanted these days (at least for now anyway!).

     

  • 04-20-2011 11:18 AM In reply to

    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    mbee:

    You're not alone...

    The fact is that the interest of customers for 3D TVs has been far lower than expected this year. People just don't want to use glasses (mainly those horrible active shutter glasses, there is a far better customer satisfaction with passive polarized glasses), they don't want to pay that much for glasses, and... They want to have 3D content to put in their TVs!

    3D is a gadget, and appart some movies like Avatar or Pina (by Wim Wender) where 3D is used with intelligence, this technology doesn't add anything to a movie experience.

    Today it's active shutter glasses 3D, tomorrow it will be passive 3D (ok, it's already today, I'm astonished that B&O didn't choose to go directly this way, because all studies proves that it provides a really better viewing experience), and then 2K and 4K definition, and after that glasses-free 3D (you need a 4K TV to get a perfect 1080p glasses-free 3D). The path of obsolescence is already traced.

    But my CRT-TV is still working! Big Smile (ok, I also have a Beovision 8 40...)

    The topics you speak on are not near as conclusive as you seem to make it.  First, you are right people don't want to use glasses for 3D but glasses-free 3D is a VERY VERY long way off, at least ones that produce good viewing angles and performance.  There are many that prefer active shutter technology as well, at least until we get the 4K 1080p passive 3D displays and again that is a long way off.  I'm not sure what "studies" you are purporting to have knowledge of but if you look at where the true videophiles hang out, namely avsforums, the passive 3D displays are by no means the best 3D TVs out right now.  Look at the Vizio passive 65" set and it's crap compared to Samsung and Panasonic plasma 3D.  Look at the LG sets.  Edge lit LCD LED.  FAIL. 

    Plasma is going to be by far the better TV for 3D performance, and they are going to come from Panasonic and Samsung.  These are the best 3D TVs out there (besides this one?) period.  They use active shutter.  I would be astonished if B&O used a passive 3D panel, because active shutter plasma 3D offers the best performance.  Somone paying 70k EURO for a TV isn't going to care for the extra 30EUR for an active 3D pair of glasses.  No one is making 3D passive plasmas.

    Finally, for anyone that thinks 3D is a gimmick, and I did before, needs to try some 3D gaming on a PS3 (that is if you like games).  Try Super Stardust 3D and Motostorm 3D and then come talk about it.  3D gaming rocks!

  • 04-20-2011 1:20 PM In reply to

    • mbee
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    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    @macjonny : I was talking about 3D technology, not screen technology, so saying that LG passive sets are not good because they are edge-lit panels doesn't makes any sense : passive tech is more expensive, so for a "normal" price they can't sell both full LED and passive 3D (they are LG, not B&O!)... But B&O could have done that, and then they would have had a totally innovative set on the market. Instead, they choose the cheap way... With cheap standard "kikinoko" glasses.

    3D passive plasma has no sense commercially today as plasma is more expensive as LCD, then you would add the cost of the polarised panel... Only a company which sells TVs over 50k€ could have done that... But there is only one company I know which sells such expensive TVs, and they don't produce their panels! Wink 

    It's true that 3D is really good for games (I've played a lot with Motorstorm in 3D), but I'm not sure that a lot of Beovision 4 85 will be connected to a PS3! But the vast majority of customers are not gamers. 3D is a niche which is difficult to sell as "the new thing to have". 

    Concerning pure 3D quality, you will see that the whole industry will move to passive, mainly due to a more "relaxing" picture (3D glasses can't go faster than 50Hz, which is simply not enough) and a better contrast and brightness (for the brightness, it's physical : as you close one eye 50% of the time, you loose at least 50% of light, even if the glasses are totally transparent . But contrary to active 3D, it has a cost, so it's not easy to sell, and then today, for a "normal" price, plasma is the best compromise (as it can virtually provide crosstalk-free 3D picture).

    And don't speak about definition loss in passive tech : if you play PS3 3D games, you know that you never play at more than 720p due to performance limitations of the PS3. Big Smile TVs with improved vertical resolution and passive 3D are not so futuristic that you may believe...

     

  • 04-20-2011 1:37 PM In reply to

    • Tomaz
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    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    mbee:

    The 3D glasses are ugly, big, heavy and boring : a standard chinese design... Loewe has gone the same way with its 3D glasses. It seems that high end manufacturers don't have enough money to make cool 3D glasses.

    Actually, the best active 3D glasses I've tried are the new bluetooth from Samsung : very light, and as the batteries are behing the ear, you don't have a lot of weight on your nose. They have been designed by the well-know Silhouette brand. The cool thing : an optional inductive charger which is just a black cylinder (monolith) : you put the glasses on it, and it charges them automatically.

    {......}

     

    So... B&O is just way behind in terms of design...

    Laughing Are you joking ? Who is behind design ? B&o just released the new 3D-glasses ,looks like a mixture of a headset and glasses.

    Screenshot.

     

    TT

  • 04-20-2011 1:45 PM In reply to

    • mbee
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    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    Woaw Tomaz, your new design is a good mix between TRON and B&O Big Smile

    But you've forgot one thing : B&O customers spends FORTUNES on speakers, so they don't want headphones ! Cool

  • 04-20-2011 1:57 PM In reply to

    • Tomaz
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    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    I think its more a "headband" Smile and the round elements are not headphones and theyre placed next to the ears ,to hold the glasses on the head. Yeah Tron : Legacy 3D is the next level.

    TT

  • 04-20-2011 2:10 PM In reply to

    • mbee
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    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    Here we are : two average B&O customers watching a movie on their BV4-85, with Tomaz-Beoview-glasses ;-)

  • 04-20-2011 2:12 PM In reply to

    • Tomaz
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    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    Laughing very average customers  ...and the Eiffel Tower in the background looks also very average .

    TT

  • 04-20-2011 2:19 PM In reply to

    • mbee
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    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    Ok, you saw the "little detail in the background" : they are not TOTALLY average, they are french Big Smile

    Sorry, I need to go, I have to charge my light-suit before going out in a bar in Paris tonight Wink

  • 04-20-2011 2:32 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    mbee:

    @macjonny : I was talking about 3D technology, not screen technology, so saying that LG passive sets are not good because they are edge-lit panels doesn't makes any sense : passive tech is more expensive, so for a "normal" price they can't sell both full LED and passive 3D (they are LG, not B&O!)... But B&O could have done that, and then they would have had a totally innovative set on the market. Instead, they choose the cheap way... With cheap standard "kikinoko" glasses.

    3D passive plasma has no sense commercially today as plasma is more expensive as LCD, then you would add the cost of the polarised panel... Only a company which sells TVs over 50k€ could have done that... But there is only one company I know which sells such expensive TVs, and they don't produce their panels! Wink 

    It's true that 3D is really good for games (I've played a lot with Motorstorm in 3D), but I'm not sure that a lot of Beovision 4 85 will be connected to a PS3! But the vast majority of customers are not gamers. 3D is a niche which is difficult to sell as "the new thing to have". 

    Concerning pure 3D quality, you will see that the whole industry will move to passive, mainly due to a more "relaxing" picture (3D glasses can't go faster than 50Hz, which is simply not enough) and a better contrast and brightness (for the brightness, it's physical : as you close one eye 50% of the time, you loose at least 50% of light, even if the glasses are totally transparent . But contrary to active 3D, it has a cost, so it's not easy to sell, and then today, for a "normal" price, plasma is the best compromise (as it can virtually provide crosstalk-free 3D picture).

    What I meant is that the viewing experience of passive sets, both in 2D and 3D, are going to be suboptimal compared to active plasma 3D sets due to the screen technology.  Saying people prefer passive sets because they prefer the 3D technology isn't true.  They may like the idea of passive 3D but that doesn't mean the actual passive 3D TVs are going to be better that are on the market NOW. 

    B&O couldn't have made a 85" passive 3D set because they don't make their own panels, so how would they have done this?  NOt sure what you mean about plasma being more expensive here.  Plasma is MUCH CHEAPER in larger sizes than LCD, and MUCH BETTER in almost every way except for energy usage and bright light viewing. 

    PS3 has sold 50 million plus.  There is a huge market for 3D games that is only just beginning to be tapped.  It won't be a niche for long.  Very few % of people have played a 3D game, and for those that have seen mine it is mind-blowing for them.  You are right though the average B&O buyer isn't going to care much.

  • 04-20-2011 3:04 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    Since I make eyewear, aka "glasses" I really object when one uses disparaging decriptors like "cumbersome.".  But active 3D eyewear, and most passives, are in fact objectionable is design and comfort.

    We can supply now  a frame-less circular polarized clipon for anyone's Rx glasses.  And for less money than the active models cost.

    As far as glasses-less 3D, it has some inherent limitations.  Take a look at this flash video from Popular Science:

    http://www.popsci.com/node/52860/?cmpid=enews040711

    Barry

  • 04-20-2011 7:02 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    sorry i can't find this on the B&O website?

  • 04-20-2011 8:34 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    I have NO interest in 3D TV whatsoever..

    Nor do I want a TV that is big for the sake of being big. TV sizes have increased to such large sizes purely to 'keep up with the Joneses'. Electronics companys are pushing the 'bigger is better' and 'look how many features we can cram in to a TV!'. People in Australia are devoting rooms to 'home cinema', even constructing special rooms in their McMansions (google it, along with the word 'bogan')

    Friends always ask me when I'm going to go to a large flat panel TV. My answer is only when I absolutely have to. 

    It seems that TVs are now larger than the windows we look through to see the amazing world we live in, and I think this is pretty sad...

    My B&O: 2009 Catalogue and Pricelist

  • 04-21-2011 12:11 AM In reply to

    • Alex
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    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    I highly doubt that anyone who buys one of these is going to be pushed into making a purchase decision based on 3D.  I'm guessing it was just one of those things where the panel that was available just happened to be a 3D panel and one of the clever guys in Struer was able to figure out that with a bit of tinkering and tweaking the BeoSystem 3 could pass through a 3D signal through to it.

     

    To answer the questions about the System 3 there are marginal (as it not noticeable or noteworthy) differences between BeoSystem 3 MKI/II and BeoSystem 3-3D.  There's an HDMI 1.4 output that currently is compatible with whatever tech is in the 85" screen as well as the top end Samsung 3D projector.  At this point I'm really not sure if that means other screens will be supported as well.  By the way, the operative word in the last statement is output (as evidenced by the boldness!).  Take from that what you will, but from what I've been able to conclude based on the use of that word is that we shouldn't expect anything groundbreaking as far as features that come along with the spec bump ... at least anywhere beyond what's going on between the panel and the BeoSystem 3.

     

    Anyhow ... I still have a lot of questions myself but if anyone is in the NYC area towards the end of May and beyond we will actually be one of the only stores in the Americas with an 85" display on the motorized stand.  Come by and check it out and hopefully by then I'll have some real concrete answers!

    Store Manager Bang & Olufsen Broadway 927 Broadway New York, NY 10010
  • 04-21-2011 3:59 AM In reply to

    • Kokomo
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    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    People in Australia are devoting rooms to 'home cinema', even constructing special rooms in their McMansions 

     

    Really? This may come as a surprise to you Jonathan but those who can afford such things have been installing them in their homes since the beginning of the 20th century!

    Hollywood stars of the silent movies had cinema rooms built into their homes and it didn't take long for the wealthy to follow. 

     

  • 04-21-2011 8:16 AM In reply to

    • fraberg
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    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    Hi Roger
    Will BV 10-55 come on new teknlogy platform? When do you think it will beintroduced?

    BV 11, screen sizes Differences from BV 10 ?

    Frank

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  • 04-21-2011 10:36 AM In reply to

    • Evan
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    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    I am one of the scoffers.

    I am very surprised to see that B&O went along with this, and so rapidly! To me it's a gadget/commodity and to me, that's not what B&O is about. Plain and simple.

    It seems the Beovision 4 line is turning out to be a sort of powerama showcase! I think the size, Jonny, was chosen to give that real theater feel. Like having an IMAX system in your very own home.

    Evan

     

  • 04-24-2011 10:56 AM In reply to

    • Roger
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    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    fraberg:

     

    Hi Roger
    Will BV 10-55 come on new teknlogy platform? When do you think it will beintroduced?

    BV 11, screen sizes Differences from BV 10 ?

    Frank
    Hi Frank,
    I will have to double check that, but my understanding was  that the BV11 will be the first with the new platform - but all BeoVision´s will be on this platform in the not to distant future. The 10-55 should be available soon, but in B&O-language I am afraid that we are talking about this coming fall. The BV11 vs BV10? It is different, perhaps more outstanding in more ways than one.
    Roger
  • 04-24-2011 1:27 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoVision 4-85"

    Cost it more than a beovision 10?

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