The cd doesn't spin after accepting a disk and the door then reopens.  I've tried a very light clean of the laser lens to no avail.  Are there any common faults or simple checks I could do with a meter for example before admitting defeat and taking it to the local store for a mechanism change out? 9300 is a type 2520, SW1.3, serial number 11684776.

Hope someone can help, Regards, Clive

Hi

Im no prob on BC9300 but it seems to have same problem with dead capacitors as my Beogram 7000, this is just one of the threads about that:

http://forum.beoworld.org/forums/p/12146/90048.aspx#90048

I cant tell you tho IF this is really your problem tho... hope any other can tell you more...

Cheers

Jesper

Sweden

Clive:

The cd doesn't spin after accepting a disk and the door then reopens.  I've tried a very light clean of the laser lens to no avail.  Are there any common faults or simple checks I could do with a meter for example before admitting defeat and taking it to the local store for a mechanism change out? 9300 is a type 2520, SW1.3, serial number 11684776.

Hope someone can help, Regards, Clive

 

Bumping this question in the hope that someone can help.  Do the capacitor problems that seem to crop up on other 9xxx Beocenters apply to the 9300?  I have been advised that because the 9300 has the later cd mechanism fitted then the infamous cap problem doesn't apply.  Hope someone can confirm this. 

Clive:

I have been advised that because the 9300 has the later cd mechanism fitted then the infamous cap problem doesn't apply.

That was likely me.

It wasn't meant that the problem was NOT caps, just not the same.

From your other thread... It may be a different cap: C2815 causing the problem(s).

At least a place to start... anyone else?

I've got one coming in for repair in about 2 weeks with exactly the same fault - so the customer says.

I'll post back my findings on this after I have it repaired, but C2815 will be the first port of call.

Menahem

Hi Menahem,

I have attached a photo of the board in my 9300, Martin thought it may have been replaced at some time in the past as it was a recent type.  Be interested to know what is fitted to the one you get in.

Regards, Clive

And the reverse side of the board.

I dont know who told you that the cap problem doesn't apply.
It certainly does, though I obviously cannot guarantee that caps are at fault in your machine.
The SMD type caps will need replacing.
If you don't have the tools and/or skills to replace surface mounted devices, they can usually
be replaced by conventional through-hole components if you are handy with a soldering iron.

Martin

Hi Clive,

Thanks for the pics - that's a new one on me. The ones I've had in, in the past, have all been with regular TTH (Through-the-Hole) capacitors. I've not seen one yet with the SMD's. In general, SMD caps are far more failure-prone than regular TTH capacitors.

IIRC, it's got something to do with the extremely high temperatures when doing "reflow soldering" during production, something which was never done in the old days....

I learnt that through hard experience on my Tek oscilloscope - Tek used SMD's on one of the PCB's, and they leaked their corrosive electrolyte all over the fine traces - what a disaster. The other PCB's with TTH caps are still going strong.

When replacing the SMD caps, replace them with regular TTH caps, just soldered onto the SMD bases - the machine will have a longer trouble-free lifetime.

Menahem

These smd caps on the picture are definitly gone, defect. It's visible, that the top of the cap is already round and deformed, not flat any more. At least the two bigger ones have got pressure inside.

Replace them with quite normal caps and it will work again. 90% will do it... :)

Clive:

The cd doesn't spin after accepting a disk and the door then reopens.  I've tried a very light clean of the laser lens to no avail.  Are there any common faults or simple checks I could do with a meter for example before admitting defeat and taking it to the local store for a mechanism change out? 9300 is a type 2520, SW1.3, serial number 11684776.

Hope someone can help, Regards, Clive

 

Hello Clive

Well.. no offence, but the guys in here are really crazy about changing caps. I had a similar problem with a B&O overture. It had a CMD12ind drive mechanism.
I was also told to change all the caps, i tried to find some datasheets on the CMD12ind mechanism, and found out that buying all the caps with the correct specifications seemed to bee very complex.

On the other hand i found in the service manual, that when the CD does not spin, the laser isnt able to find focus.
I turned the overture into service mode, and could read exactly that error "focus error"
I tried to disassemble and clean the laser unit with instructions from guides online, but with no success.
I wanted to try to buy a new one, unfortunately the laser unit was no longer avavible (it was actually avavible when i brought the defective Overture) :)

Nevertheless i searched ebay, and found a seller in China (gobuyjudy[AT]hotmail.com)
, who asked me to send a picture of the laser unit. I did, and i send him ~30$. I did not really hear from him afterwards but
14 days after, i recived what seems to be a quite good quality part. I replaced it with the broken one, and greased carefully the moving parts, and it has ben playing every day since :)

You should know there is several different versions of the laser unit and the cd mechanism. But mine were a CMD12ind and the laser unit had the IC mounted TDA1302T
I actually think i could have bought this one. It is similar to the one i got, and even cheaper:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270607402455&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

It's also my experience that capacitors are causing 95% (or more) of the
faults in B&O CD players (and many other places in vintage stuff).
The laser itself is incredibly strong and long lived.
I say that based on 200+ repairs to B&O CD players.
Of course a laser can fail but it is rare to see.

After taking a look at the photo using my own PC monitor, I agree
completely with you (the other) Martin.
The one in the bottom left corner has definitely domed its top.
That cap is no longer doing its job well.

Whatever you do, DON'T adjust anything ! Setting the laser current too high will see the
laser diode go black forever in a matter of minutes or even seconds and adjusting focus etc. without
the proper instrumentation, test CD's etc. is asking for trouble (or a high repair bill).
Have those caps replaced and let's see. They are definitely no good as-is.

A note about the Ouverture:
I've seen a couple of cases where the laser was physically blocked. It needs
to move closer to - or away from the CD to find the focus point and to do that
it uses a voice coil system to move the whole diode/lens system, involving
the coil(s) and a flat metal (magnet) piece.
In the Ouverture, it can happen that the outer surface coating (chrome or
whatever) losens and peels off the metal piece in tiny flakes.
There is no room for any debris in there so the coil gets stuck.
It's a bit hard to clean out because of the magnetic forces but it can be done
by using f.e. a corner of a post-it note (the end with the glue) and it will play again.
I've rescued two or three with this fault by now and it could also explain
the problem that was in Kumse's machine.
So the capacitors in that machine are still good.
- but as all others they won't last forever.

Martin

Thanks again guys.  You are correct in that the two large capacitors are deformed (bulging).  It was the first thing I noticed when I opened up the unit.  Replacing the capacitors shouldn't present me with too many challenges once I have sourced them but how easy is it to remove the original surface mounted items without causing any damage to the board?

Note their values and polarities.
Use pliers,  grab and twist.

Martin

Thanks Martin, now you're talking my language.  Pliers, grab, pull and twist!  I thought there may be a more 'technical' way!

I should have mentioned that I'm a mechanical engineer so that part of the job should be simple enough for me

Don't pull !
You will risk pulling off the copper traces too.
Just grab and rotate.

There is a more technical way but that involves ionized hot air soldering and since you asked the question, I took it that
you don't have that at hand.

Martin

And clean the surface with a paint thinner. The defect cap has lost acid, it can corrode the copper and it can make a shortcut.

Grab and rotate works perfect, i do it the same way, never a defect copper layer.

Clean the solder with a unsolder copper wire, sorry, dont know the english word for this item...

There is no need to use smd again, quite normal standard caps will work. You know the polarity of the caps? Black is minus.

Die_Bogener:

unsolder copper wire, sorry, dont know the english word for this item...

Solder wick.

Die_Bogener:

Clean the solder with a unsolder copper wire, sorry, dont know the english word for this item...

"Solder wick" or "desoldering braid"... and the best brand is for some odd reason called "Soder-Wick" (by Chemtronics), without the L! I've tried at least three other (cheaper) brands, and none of them worked nearly as well...

Exactly my experience too.

Martin

Soder Wick contains flux, the others don't.

So, if you just add some flux to your regular wick, it's just as good!

Menahem

Dillen:

A note about the Ouverture:
I've seen a couple of cases where the laser was physically blocked. It needs
to move closer to - or away from the CD to find the focus point and to do that
it uses a voice coil system to move the whole diode/lens system, involving
the coil(s) and a flat metal (magnet) piece.
In the Ouverture, it can happen that the outer surface coating (chrome or
whatever) losens and peels off the metal piece in tiny flakes.
There is no room for any debris in there so the coil gets stuck.
It's a bit hard to clean out because of the magnetic forces but it can be done
by using f.e. a corner of a post-it note (the end with the glue) and it will play again.
I've rescued two or three with this fault by now and it could also explain
the problem that was in Kumse's machine.
So the capacitors in that machine are still good.
- but as all others they won't last forever.

IF the laser is physically blocked -how is your experience with changing the laser lens? I've seen that you can buy a new laser head unit and replace it. Otherwise you can replace the whole CD mechanism. I've seen that you can replace the Philips CDM 12.1 and 12.2 with the newer VAM-1201 or VAM-1202. Any experience with that?

I never had to replace a laser lens (or a laser diode for that matter) apart from one in a Beogram CD50, where the owner managed to
scratch the lens in a desperate attempt to get the thing going (the fault was the spindle motor plus a few capacitors, as always).
So I'm afraid, I haven't got any experience with replacing the lens and can't recommend a part.

Regarding the blockage, if you read a bit further, you will see that a replacement of the laser was not needed. The blockage
could be cleared and the player worked again. I've done two or three repairs of this type now so I'd imagine others would experience the same fault.

Martin

Hi Kumse,

"Well.. no offence, but the guys in here are really crazy about changing caps"

No offense taken, but you must understand that this bunch of guys is unusual. If I may speak for all the techs here, our unusualness is that we do not subscribe to the modern lazy way of fixing things, which is to throw away the entire subassembly, PCB, or whatever, and put in a new one, at a vastly inflated cost to the consumer, but instead we do things the old-fashioned way - repairing at the component level, which is fast becoming a lost art in today's throw-away world.

Yes, we change capacitors, because we have (may I be so bold) vast experience on these B&O machines, and capacitors were always B&O's weak points.

In general when we replace capacitors, most of the techs here are sufficiently well-versed to replace with capacitors of much higher reliabilty than the original B&O units, therefore providing even better value and reliability to the owners.

Simple facts, simple problems, with simple, correct and honest solutions.

You may disagree, and that's fine. We'll continue to tackle the problems at component level, because that's the way we believe that it should be done, and which serves the owners most honestly.

Menahem

100% agreement :)