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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 05-20-2010 9:23 AM by Razlaw. 54 replies.
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  • 04-25-2010 9:58 AM In reply to

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    Noticed one more thing.....with Quantum of Solace BluRay all speakers are active when the BluRay's setup menu is on the screen but when the actual movie starts, only five are active. And, interestingly if I put a DVD in the BluRay player all 7 speakers work again. Also put in the Dark Knight BluRay. The 6000s are silent when I set it to play theTrue HD track. when I set it to play the regular Dolby track, the 2.0 track, or French or Spanish Dolby, all seven speakers work.

    Beovision 7-55 with Beolab 7-4, 9s and 4000s

    Beovision 10-40 with Beolab 1s and 6000s

    Beosound 1, 5, 2000, and 3000

    Beotime, Beotalk, Beocoms

  • 04-25-2010 2:01 PM In reply to

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    Razlaw,

    Do you really mean that all 7 speakers work during TV, DVD (not in the blu-ray player/ not PCM), and Apple TV? In my case, the rear speakers work but the (side) surround speakers do not. HOWEVER, there are a very few 6.1 DVDs that CAN take advantage of all 7 speakers -- such as the Star Wars movies. Otherwise, non-blu-ray content is only 5.1 and does not use the extra 2 speakers. Are you playing DVDs via your blu-ray player? If so, which blu-ray player do you use? Perhaps it has an option to do a "matrixed" (simulated) 7.1 for 5.1 content? I use the PS3. However, I use the BeoCenter 2 for DVDs.

    I have also noticed that some blu-ray previews and menus use all 7 speakers but then go to only 5.1 speakers for the actual movie if the actual movie is 5.1 instead of 7.1

  • 04-25-2010 2:27 PM In reply to

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    We are using a Sony BDP S550 and yes I was playing the DVDs in it. And yes, when playing a DVD in it, when using Apple TV, and when watching satellite TV all seven speakers were producing sound. I will be curious to see how our new 7-55 operates with seven speakers once it arrives.

    Beovision 7-55 with Beolab 7-4, 9s and 4000s

    Beovision 10-40 with Beolab 1s and 6000s

    Beosound 1, 5, 2000, and 3000

    Beotime, Beotalk, Beocoms

  • 04-26-2010 7:54 AM In reply to

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    I was mistaken. I checked and found that playing 5.1 sound via cable tv, BeoCenter 2 DVD, and Apple TV does indeed use all 7.1 speakers. Currently, my (side) surround speakers are a pair of Beolab 4000s, so the sound was not as noticeable. My second pair of Beolab 8000s arrive today. I'm interested in hearing the difference they will make.

  • 04-26-2010 8:02 AM In reply to

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    Perhaps what is happening is that sound sent to the Beovision for decoding is output as 7.1 but when Dolby True HD and DTS HD are decoded by the player they are sent on as 5.1 and as the decoding is done external to the Beovision, the Beovision just passes the 5.1 on through. The problem with this view is that the manual for our Sony says that Dolby True HD will be output as 7.1?

    Beovision 7-55 with Beolab 7-4, 9s and 4000s

    Beovision 10-40 with Beolab 1s and 6000s

    Beosound 1, 5, 2000, and 3000

    Beotime, Beotalk, Beocoms

  • 04-28-2010 7:58 AM In reply to

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    beojeff:

    I was mistaken. I checked and found that playing 5.1 sound via cable tv, BeoCenter 2 DVD, and Apple TV does indeed use all 7.1 speakers. Currently, my (side) surround speakers are a pair of Beolab 4000s, so the sound was not as noticeable. My second pair of Beolab 8000s arrive today. I'm interested in hearing the difference they will make.

    How is it working now with the second pair of 8000s?

    Beovision 7-55 with Beolab 7-4, 9s and 4000s

    Beovision 10-40 with Beolab 1s and 6000s

    Beosound 1, 5, 2000, and 3000

    Beotime, Beotalk, Beocoms

  • 05-02-2010 9:46 PM In reply to

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    Razlaw:
    beojeff:

    I was mistaken. I checked and found that playing 5.1 sound via cable tv, BeoCenter 2 DVD, and Apple TV does indeed use all 7.1 speakers. Currently, my (side) surround speakers are a pair of Beolab 4000s, so the sound was not as noticeable. My second pair of Beolab 8000s arrive today. I'm interested in hearing the difference they will make.

    How is it working now with the second pair of 8000s?

    The woofer on one of the Beolab 8000 surround speakers needs repair. Still, the improvement over the Beolab 4000s is huge. Even the other speakers seem to perform better. I'm wondering if the BeoSystem 3 adjusts superior speakers down to level them out with the inferior speakers in a surround setup. Now I'm wanting to replace the rear BeoLab 6000 speakers with BeoLab 8000s as well.

    I'm still hoping that B&O will do something to "matrix" sound from blu-ray linear PCM to take advantage of the rear speakers during 5.1.

  • 05-02-2010 9:54 PM In reply to

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    Razlaw:
    Perhaps what is happening is that sound sent to the Beovision for decoding is output as 7.1 but when Dolby True HD and DTS HD are decoded by the player they are sent on as 5.1 and as the decoding is done external to the Beovision, the Beovision just passes the 5.1 on through. The problem with this view is that the manual for our Sony says that Dolby True HD will be output as 7.1?

    The Dolby True HD and DTS HD in 6.1 or 7.1 do indeed use all 7.1 speakers. However, Dolby True HD and DTS HD 5.1 only use the front, center, and surround speakers. The rear speakers are not engaged (as they are engaged in non-PCM sources).

  • 05-04-2010 4:55 PM In reply to

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    Geoff,

    I've researched the issue with the PS3 and the lack of utilizing all the speakers. It seems that it's a common surround processor issue found with cheaper surround processors. (I hope this matter can be fixed so that the BeoSystem 3 maintains it's status as one of the superior surround processors!) The problem is that the BeoSystem 3 is not capable of matrixing the sound coming from linear PCM. Couldn't this be remedied with a future software update?

  • 05-04-2010 9:38 PM In reply to

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    In one of his posts in this thread, Geoff Martin said that when AST is active, all 7 speakers will work. I may have to try this next week after new TV is set up.

    Beovision 7-55 with Beolab 7-4, 9s and 4000s

    Beovision 10-40 with Beolab 1s and 6000s

    Beosound 1, 5, 2000, and 3000

    Beotime, Beotalk, Beocoms

  • 05-05-2010 2:05 AM In reply to

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    beojeff:

    Geoff,

    I've researched the issue with the PS3 and the lack of utilizing all the speakers. It seems that it's a common surround processor issue found with cheaper surround processors. (I hope this matter can be fixed so that the BeoSystem 3 maintains it's status as one of the superior surround processors!) The problem is that the BeoSystem 3 is not capable of matrixing the sound coming from linear PCM. Couldn't this be remedied with a future software update?

     

    Hi,

    This issue is currently being worked on. However, I don't know the current status, since it's outside my territory... Remember I'm just in the forum to help out with the AST stuff... :-)

    However, since this forum is about AST, I'll repeat Razlaw's reptition of my comment that, if AST is on, then you'll get signal from all of your speakers.

    cheers

    -geoff

    Filed under:
  • 05-05-2010 8:05 AM In reply to

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    As always, thank you very much for stopping by and sharing your expertise and knowledge with us. Very much appreciated.

    Beovision 7-55 with Beolab 7-4, 9s and 4000s

    Beovision 10-40 with Beolab 1s and 6000s

    Beosound 1, 5, 2000, and 3000

    Beotime, Beotalk, Beocoms

  • 05-05-2010 1:31 PM In reply to

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    I agree with Razlaw. It sounds like we've discovered that the Linear PCM issue can be helped with AST. Perhaps an unexpected benefit of AST! Please stop in from time to time and join in our BeoWorld discussions, Geoff.

  • 05-06-2010 2:33 AM In reply to

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    beojeff:

    I agree with Razlaw. It sounds like we've discovered that the Linear PCM issue can be helped with AST. Perhaps an unexpected benefit of AST! Please stop in from time to time and join in our BeoWorld discussions, Geoff.

    Hi Beojeff.

    If you use AST, you will certainly get sound out of all of your loudspeakers. Whether or not that will actually sound better is dependent on your loudspeaker configuration (what loudspeakers you have, and where they're placed). Remember that AST is not an upmixing algorithm - it's a loudspeaker placement correction algorithm. Of course, you can use it as either an upmixing or downmixing strategy, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to work well for this application.

    The question of upmixing is a large one. My personal preference is always to hear what the mixing engineer heard, so I never use upmixing algorithms. If I have a 5.x source, I want 5 loudspeakers making noise - not 7, even if I have the 7 available. If you do want to upmix, then the first question to ask is "why?" Different upmixing algorithms are built with different intentions, so a particular algorithm might not do what one expects (or wants) it to do... This is even true when comparing variants within a single upmixing algorithm (i.e. "movie" vs. "music" mode) - or different parameter settings. So, the answer to the "why" question might provide a path to answer to the "which algorithm should I choose?"

    Cheers

    -geoff

    Filed under:
  • 05-08-2010 8:52 PM In reply to

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    Beojeff, I now have my copy of 3:10 to Yuma back although I do not at present have the extra speaker(s) connected. I set up the TV as if it had 7 speakers in the menu even though only five were connected. I was able to get sound from our rear speakers whether they were set as rears or surrounds. It does seem to me therefore that with an uncompressed 7.1 LPCM Blu-Ray that all seven speakers will work without AST, although the BV7 menu still shows only 5 active under sound system.

    I will talk to the tech Monday when he installs our 7-55 and can see the room layout to get his opinion on having the extra two speaker connected.

    Beovision 7-55 with Beolab 7-4, 9s and 4000s

    Beovision 10-40 with Beolab 1s and 6000s

    Beosound 1, 5, 2000, and 3000

    Beotime, Beotalk, Beocoms

  • 05-10-2010 6:59 AM In reply to

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    Razlaw, you are correct. I've been enjoying 7.1 LPCM on my BeoSystem 3 using all 7 speakers. After a lot of research, I've found that the issue with the BeoSystem 3 not playing the rear speakers in a 7 speaker setup with 5.1 LPCM blu-rays is an issue with "matrixing." The BS3 is not able to matrix 5.1 LPCM sound to use all 7 speakers. However, the BS3 CAN matrix 5.1 Dolby Digital into 7 speakers. As Geoff said, it can be a matter of personal taste. Some purists would prefer listening to a blu-ray movie with the soundtrack as it was intended. I, however, like having the added sound from the rear speakers. It would be nice to have this option.

    I really wish that B&O would correct the menu so that it correctly shows 7.1 LPCM when that is, indeed the signal being sent and played. It's rather confusing to see 5.1 as the output on the menu when you know that it's 7.1.

    Once you have the extra 2 speakers added to your setup, I could suggest some movies for you to listen to for taking advantage of those extra speakers. The first two Harry Potter movies in the Ultimate Edition (the big boxes - not the original small cases) are 6.1. Also, the Lord of the Rings trilogy is in 6.1. All of the original generation of Star Trek films are 7.1 (however, the New Generation movies are not). Sleeping Beauty is delightful in 7.1 Enjoy!

  • 05-14-2010 7:55 AM In reply to

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    Hi Geoff

    I found this thread because I have a problem, which should be solved in conjunction with AST.
    Here comes my problem:
    Since 1991 I have B&O products, and I have build up quite a lot of masterlinked devices. In 2006 I build a new house, all over with ML.
    In 2008 I replaced the BV Avant by a BV 7-40. Besides other rooms I have one big room with a Dolby Digital setup (with the 7-40), a dining area with beolab 3500, and a kitchen area with beolink passive.

    With the installation of the 7-40 I have the echo problem, which makes me crazy. It is not possible, to watch apple TV, i.e. pictures with background music an all speakers, incl. the link speakers. Same problem while watching TV. All with echo. The echo is gone when I select P-Mute, but watching TV this is not really helpful. I have contacted beocare, wrote a letter to the headquarter of B&O in germany, bothered my dealer, but no one could help me. It seems, that this problem was simply ignored. From the dealer in my area I can learn that this is a big problem, and there is no solution (of course they tried the sound delay thing, but it was no help at all).

    So I am on the way to repleace/renew the B&O devices step by step. The BeoPort is already gone...
    Now I got the information from my dealer that with the AST version of the DSM my problem can be solved. That is the good news, the bad news is that it will cost app. 500€. If the problem is really solved, I will spend the 500€. Can you confirm that the echo problem will be gone with a new DSM module?

    My current 7-40 has the DSM MK1, and my dealer told me that my system needs a new software and at least DSM MK2.

    Thanks

  • 05-16-2010 1:29 PM In reply to

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    Have now tried AST. I am undecided if I like the sound better with or without it. There is a noticeable difference between having it on and off.

    Beovision 7-55 with Beolab 7-4, 9s and 4000s

    Beovision 10-40 with Beolab 1s and 6000s

    Beosound 1, 5, 2000, and 3000

    Beotime, Beotalk, Beocoms

  • 05-16-2010 4:09 PM In reply to

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    I have continued to test the AST. It is very interesting that one can rotate the sound stage. As this is being done the BV7 displays how many degrees of rotation there are. Also, the BV7 will display which listening preset has been selected, such as CHAIR, or whatever label has been selected by the user.

    However, I am confused as a menu appears that says  Distance 1, Distance 2, Distance 3, Rotate      and allows settings to be changed for all four of these. I do not see this menu anywhere in the user guide. What is it for?  Selecting one of the distance options will produce a tone from one of the 5 connected speakers. I took a guess and measured from the listening position to the speaker emitting the tone and that seemed to improve the results but am not sure if that is what it is for.

    Thanks!

     

    Beovision 7-55 with Beolab 7-4, 9s and 4000s

    Beovision 10-40 with Beolab 1s and 6000s

    Beosound 1, 5, 2000, and 3000

    Beotime, Beotalk, Beocoms

  • 05-18-2010 3:19 PM In reply to

    • tkl95
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 08-10-2007
    • Posts 13
    • Bronze Member

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    Hi Geoff,

    I have a few questions regarding AST.

    1.) Is it true that I need to purchase a new Beosystem 3 in order to have AST?

    2.) Or can my Dec 2006 Beosystem 3 be upgraded with the AST module and about how much would that cost?

    3.) I currently have 1xBL7.1, 1xBL2, 4xBL5, so currently my BL2 does not produce any sound anymore. B&O statement was is normal BL5 overrules. Would with AST also the BL2 play sound or would it be better t sell it as no sound would be produced as today?

    4.) Looking at the current speaker set I have, would there really be any advantage of AST?

    5.) Would I really need to purchase a Beo5 in order to use AST, or is it only to configure AST and I can use afterwards my Beo4. (The only reason I don't have a Beo5 is because of the very poor battery, my Beo4 goes 1.5 years, while Beo5 does not go 1.5 day without recharge).

    6.) When will Beosystem 3 have an update to HDMI 1.3?

    Kind regards,

    tk

     

  • 05-19-2010 9:23 AM In reply to

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    Razlaw:

    However, I am confused as a menu appears that says  Distance 1, Distance 2, Distance 3, Rotate      and allows settings to be changed for all four of these. I do not see this menu anywhere in the user guide. What is it for?  Selecting one of the distance options will produce a tone from one of the 5 connected speakers. I took a guess and measured from the listening position to the speaker emitting the tone and that seemed to improve the results but am not sure if that is what it is for.

    Hi,

    This is the menu where you create your preset. The AST algorithm need to know two things

    1. where are you sitting?

    2. In which direction are you facing?

    To answer the first question, the menu asks how far away your listening position is from each of three loudspeakers. These are the three Distances that it's asking for. You should measure the distance from your listening position to the loudspeaker that's making the noise. Based on these three Distances, the system triangulates your location (since it already knows where the loudspeakers are from the Distance to A and B menus in the Loudspeaker Setup procedure).

    To answer the second question, you set the rotation. Note that, in the TV and Cinema preset, you are not asked for a rotation, since it is preset to be the direction of the television (or screen) from the listening position.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers

    -geoff

    Filed under:
  • 05-19-2010 9:32 AM In reply to

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    tkl95:

    1.) Is it true that I need to purchase a new Beosystem 3 in order to have AST?

    2.) Or can my Dec 2006 Beosystem 3 be upgraded with the AST module and about how much would that cost?

    3.) I currently have 1xBL7.1, 1xBL2, 4xBL5, so currently my BL2 does not produce any sound anymore. B&O statement was is normal BL5 overrules. Would with AST also the BL2 play sound or would it be better t sell it as no sound would be produced as today?

    4.) Looking at the current speaker set I have, would there really be any advantage of AST?

    5.) Would I really need to purchase a Beo5 in order to use AST, or is it only to configure AST and I can use afterwards my Beo4. (The only reason I don't have a Beo5 is because of the very poor battery, my Beo4 goes 1.5 years, while Beo5 does not go 1.5 day without recharge).

    6.) When will Beosystem 3 have an update to HDMI 1.3?

     

    Hi,

    Some short answers...

    1) No.

    2) I think that a BeoSystem3 from 2006 needs a software and a hardware upgrade. I don't know what this would cost - you'd have to contact your local dealer for this info.

    3) Given that you have 4xBL5, you would be downgrading your audio to route bass signals to the BL2, since the four BL5's have better bass capabilities than the BL2. I would suggest that you should sell it.

    4) It depends on the placement of your speakers more than the models that you have. If you have a reasonably good, symmetrical setup similar to the standard recommendations (see this link for details), the AST will probably not help you. If your loudspeaker placement is poor, then AST might give you an improvement.

    5) Although it is technically possible to use a Beo4 to control AST and change presets, it is certainly inconvenient, since any changes must be made by going through the setup menus instead of selecting things directly from the remote.

    6) I'm afraid that I don't know the answer to this... Sorry...

    Cheers

    -geoff

     

    Filed under:
  • 05-19-2010 9:34 AM In reply to

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    Hi,

    I need to know more in order to help you. You say "the echo problem". Can you be more specific? Which speakers are early and which are producing the echo?

    Cheers

    -geoff

     

  • 05-19-2010 2:50 PM In reply to

    • tkl95
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 08-10-2007
    • Posts 13
    • Bronze Member

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    Hi Geoff,

    Thanks for the quick response.

    On topic 4, I have indeed a very symmetrical setup in a 6x5m room.

    I'll get in touch with the local dealer on the upgrade.

    Best regards,

    Tk

     

  • 05-19-2010 3:23 PM In reply to

    Re: AST Help & Understanding

    geoff martin:

    Razlaw:

    However, I am confused as a menu appears that says  Distance 1, Distance 2, Distance 3, Rotate      and allows settings to be changed for all four of these. I do not see this menu anywhere in the user guide. What is it for?  Selecting one of the distance options will produce a tone from one of the 5 connected speakers. I took a guess and measured from the listening position to the speaker emitting the tone and that seemed to improve the results but am not sure if that is what it is for.

    Hi,

    This is the menu where you create your preset. The AST algorithm need to know two things

    1. where are you sitting?

    2. In which direction are you facing?

    To answer the first question, the menu asks how far away your listening position is from each of three loudspeakers. These are the three Distances that it's asking for. You should measure the distance from your listening position to the loudspeaker that's making the noise. Based on these three Distances, the system triangulates your location (since it already knows where the loudspeakers are from the Distance to A and B menus in the Loudspeaker Setup procedure).

    To answer the second question, you set the rotation. Note that, in the TV and Cinema preset, you are not asked for a rotation, since it is preset to be the direction of the television (or screen) from the listening position.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers

    -geoff

     

    Thank you very very much.  I am still confused about a couple of issues.

    When in the set up menu and measuring all of the points from point A and B, one of the points measured to is viewing position. What is that position and how does it relate to the positions used with the presets obtained using the three speakers?

     

    Also, as for setting the rotation, is the merely a matter of taste as to which direction one prefers the sound to be coming from while listening from a specific preset location?

     

     

    Beovision 7-55 with Beolab 7-4, 9s and 4000s

    Beovision 10-40 with Beolab 1s and 6000s

    Beosound 1, 5, 2000, and 3000

    Beotime, Beotalk, Beocoms

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