Enigma:

 

Hmmm … and I paid money for this? The Internet is full of free places to rant on about “my Apple/Linux/PC is better than yours” and I’ll tell you what a good deal will be way more technically informed that what I’ve read here so far.  Flappo - I’ve had to fix or workaround Apple integration issues you probably don’t even know exist.

 

Ok, B&O is a hobby for me. IT is my business, I’ve been doing this for 22 years. It’s well known in the industry that Apple owners are elitist; it’s also well known that many Apple users in the enterprise are having to run Vista or Windows 7 via Bootcamp to do business in the real world. And let’s not even touch on consumer iPhone vs. Blackberry in anything other than a small business. There are niches and exceptions of course, some people get by – really depends on the environment.  All well and good  - enjoy it – and for home use, hey fine.

 

Don’t get me wrong, Apple know how to dress a product up and market it, and I own plenty of Apple gadgets myself.

 

Which carries across to B&O – I’ve spent horrendous amounts of money on this stuff over the years because I like it. Looks great, sounds good – but I’m not blind enough to ignore the fact that most of that money has gone on the design & cosmetics, built around Philips or Panasonic kit for the most part. I know I can get better performing kit that looks less attractive at a phenomenally cheaper price. But I don’t and for that some people I work with think I have lost the plot. And I've spent that money on B&O enduring disinterested, snotty salesmen and drastic after sales support.

 

Absolutely no different to Apple – standard, locked-down tech wrapped up in pretty clothes. No wonder B&O owners are drawn in, myself included. But please, don’t delude yourself. I don’t.

 

Having made the switch from PC to Apple in my office posed indeeds some issues. I am not denying that integrating apple in a pc environment is an easy thing to do. (or visa versa)  However the problems I encountered were easily overcome by dropping the Windows platform all together.

Apple proved to be very reliable partner for my company (both in hardware and software and tech support). The switch proved a benefit in lower overall costs and a much improved workflow and productivity that otherwise would NOT have been possible.

Apple owner are elitist ?  Maybe, but everyone has there opinion about that and is free to express their opinion.
I don't judge you, so don't judge me.

My company no longer runs Vista or Windows on any other windows apps on our main system. We have one pc left that is solely used to save files in an outdated Acad file type that is still used by some of our clients antiquated PC systems. These files will be converted and the pc will no longer be required once the clients upgrade their systems this year.

I don't know where you get the idea that B&O is 'philips or panasonic kit for the most part'. I am sure B&O will prove you wrong on that level.
All electronics are no more than a selection of components and not all of them are custom designed, granted. It's also about the way they are selected, put together and made to integrate with each other as much as it is about the design, user interface and interaction.

Both Apple and B&O are 'locked-down' technologies, there is no denying that. But it works for B&O and it works very well for Apple.
If you have a problem with that you should abandon these brands and move to something different. 

XavierItzmann:

Puncher:

It's actually quite sad!

 

I agree.  This is why I went with a VW, the 12-cylinder version.  Think different!

With regard to Apple, there is saying that once you go Mac you never go back.  This has been true for me since 1987.

Think different.....Saab!

On the heated PC vs Apple debate I can only say that in my (not an IT man) experience the Apple Mac runs a superior  and stable OS. If OS10 had been the industry standard then there would be far fewer heavily manned IT back-up offices, and no nuisance anti virus software like Norton which is forever trying to impress you with pop-ups about scans just when you're in the middle of something else.

vikinger:

XavierItzmann:

Puncher:

It's actually quite sad!

 

I agree.  This is why I went with a VW, the 12-cylinder version.  Think different!

With regard to Apple, there is saying that once you go Mac you never go back.  This has been true for me since 1987.

Think different.....Saab!

On the heated PC vs Apple debate I can only say that in my (not an IT man) experience the Apple Mac runs a superior  and stable OS. If OS10 had been the industry standard then there would be far fewer heavily manned IT back-up offices, and no nuisance anti virus software like Norton which is forever trying to impress you with pop-ups about scans just when you're in the middle of something else.

Good one !!!!  

Enough!! This is a B&O site and Mac vs PC arguments can go elsewhere.  They are both just computers after all. 

The sentiment of the thread is I believe fair. A greater percentage of B&O owners seem to have Macs that the general population which in my view is not surprising as they do have similar values of design, integration by doing things their own way, and build. However plenty of owners also have PCs and this would probably still be a healthy majority.

No more flaming please! 

Peter :

Enough!! This is a B&O site and Mac vs PC arguments can go elsewhere.  They are both just computers after all. 

No more flaming please! 

Hurrah!

One vote from me!

Peter :

However plenty of owners also have PCs and this would probably still be a healthy majority.

What you say is possible, no doubt.  But I took the time to go back through this thread and see who actually declared what is it that they use or own.  Here is my tally of those who declared, and I apologize if I missed or misinterpreted anyone.

Soundproof - Mac

Lee - Mac + PC

Cooldude - Mac

Burantek - Mac

Beocool - Mac

Rwst - Mac

Jkl002 - Mac

Vikinger - Mac

Flapper - Mac

Superdario - Mac

PhilLondon - Mac

Puncher - PC

BTW, we also found out that German cars are strongly preferred around this crop of self-selected Bang & Olufsen enthusiasts, with a Swedish automobile outlier here and there

Now, the onus on B&O management is to answer: at at time when some of your most enthusiastic and loyal customers prefer Apple products, what are you going to do about it?

XavierItzmann:

Peter :

However plenty of owners also have PCs and this would probably still be a healthy majority.

 

What you say is possible, no doubt.  But I took the time to go back through this thread and see who actually declared what is it that they use or own.  Here is my tally of those who declared, and I apologize if I missed or misinterpreted anyone.

Soundproof - Mac

Lee - Mac + PC

Cooldude - Mac

Burantek - Mac

Beocool - Mac

Rwst - Mac

Jkl002 - Mac

Vikinger - Mac

Flapper - Mac

Superdario - Mac

PhilLondon - Mac

Puncher - PC

 

BTW, we also found out that German cars are strongly preferred around this crop of self-selected Bang & Olufsen enthusiasts, with a Swedish automobile outlier here and there

Now, the onus on B&O management is to answer: at at time when some of your most enthusiastic and loyal customers prefer Apple products, what are you going to do about it?

I'm sorry - but this forum will never be representative of B&O's everyday customers - the folk who come here are B&O nerds (and I include myself in that). It would be a very silly CEO who ran his company based on opinions expressed here!

By the same token, I'm sure Steve Jobs isn't reading either!

oh i dunno

over at the apple forums someone moaned aboot their mac and actually received an email from steve jobs himself !!

i was there and saw it happen

XavierItzmann:

BTW, we also found out that German cars are strongly preferred around this crop of self-selected Bang & Olufsen enthusiasts, with a Swedish automobile outlier here and there

I didn't have much choice on the Volvo, it kind of dropped into my hands.

PCs exclusively at home and at work. Most of them run Linux, though...

>>what are you going to do about it?<<

Admittedly they dropped the ball on Beoport. Question is, is that an up to date product? 

I switched to Apple TV and Ipod Touch Remote which is functionally great and super convenient. Does it have the "Ah" effect like my BC2 opening it's angel wings? No.

I like what they have done with the Beosound 5. Is it on par for Macusers? To me it is not since gapless playing and maybe even lossless are important to me while having one Library in Itunes.

Is the Beomedia in the back a waste of space and money? To me it is as it is lacking video it is somewhat but then again the video market is not as stable as the audio market with its heavy Itunes and Ipod dominance. While some of us convert our DVDs, applications like Boxee show how much the area is in motion. For those who don't know what Boxee is, it can pull content from different online sources like Netflix and Hulu as well as play content from your local network or PC/Mac/NAS.

Beoport to me is not a product I would expect a typical B&O customer to jump on - in fact for a while I hard a hard time understanding what it does that I could not get from a line in line out connection between a Beosound and a PC. 

We have Beosound 5 mac supported to some extend, we have Apple control through the Beovisions and the STB. We have Apple Remote Support in the Beo 5 remote.

Besides the small improvements of the Beosound 5, what else is there? To attack video to me seems impossible giving the shape of the market. Do I really need an Ipod Dock at home?

XavierItzmann:

Lee - Mac + PC

I use a PC because i have to at work. No other reason.

AVG is the 'work antivirus of choice' and the Norton thing made me chuckle to myself as AVG pops up like a proud ringmaster as often as it can to tell me it's zapped an advertising pop-up or quarantined a nasty. It also makes my hard drive crackle like a firework and slows it to a crawl when it's having a clean up, which seems like every hour.  My Mac...  it just takes a large inhale of fresh air and smiles at me, virus free and working as fast as the day i got it, every day, all day.

However, i'm with Peter that this isn't about flaming - or, something i often feel guilty of - being a MacEvangelist.  This thread is about B&O listening to Mac Users and perhaps doing something about making better interfaces with B&O.

I do know that B&O are acutely aware of issues either before us or at the same time as us - and when they don't act there's usually a good reason, be it technical or financial.   Personally, i'd like to see someone from B&O at least publically address the issue and answer some questions. However, i don't see that happening as long as i have my own hair and teeth.

I'm also aware that Apple are pretty aloof when it comes to 'small fry' like B&O and are fiercely protective over the OS and Software. I really wouldn't blame them either. However, they must surely see a synergy - which is why they stock A8's etc.

To be honest, would Microsoft have been that interested if Torben hadn't been a 'pal' ?  We could question that if hadn't pulled so much weight with the Lego thing, would they have spared B&O time too?  Who knows - i'm just throwing ideas.

Lee

9 LEE:

XavierItzmann:

Lee - Mac + PC

I use a PC because i have to at work. No other reason.

AVG is the 'work antivirus of choice' and the Norton thing made me chuckle to myself as AVG pops up like a proud ringmaster as often as it can to tell me it's zapped an advertising pop-up or quarantined a nasty. It also makes my hard drive crackle like a firework and slows it to a crawl when it's having a clean up, which seems like every hour.  My Mac...  it just takes a large inhale of fresh air and smiles at me, virus free and working as fast as the day i got it, every day, all day.

However, i'm with Peter that this isn't about flaming - or, something i often feel guilty of - being a MacEvangelist.  This thread is about B&O listening to Mac Users and perhaps doing something about making better interfaces with B&O.

I do know that B&O are acutely aware of issues either before us or at the same time as us - and when they don't act there's usually a good reason, be it technical or financial.   Personally, i'd like to see someone from B&O at least publically address the issue and answer some questions. However, i don't see that happening as long as i have my own hair and teeth.

I'm also aware that Apple are pretty aloof when it comes to 'small fry' like B&O and are fiercely protective over the OS and Software. I really wouldn't blame them either. However, they must surely see a synergy - which is why they stock A8's etc.

To be honest, would Microsoft have been that interested if Torben hadn't been a 'pal' ?  We could question that if hadn't pulled so much weight with the Lego thing, would they have spared B&O time too?  Who knows - i'm just throwing ideas.

Lee

 

There is actually a larger picture here.  Microsoft sells media software and makes it available on a 'system on a chip' basis.  B&O, HP, Dell, and many others are able to put this into their systems for not very much money.  The bottom line is B&O would no doubt make the same decision to use Microsoft's Media system because of cost and the fact that 80% of the world's PCs run on Windows.  You can be sure Apple is not planning on doing this with any third party manufacturer.  Apple wants you to buy their products.

This of course has become a problem for B&O because many of their customers have switched to Apple or have purchased iPods.  BTW I have a new 27 inch iMac, a MacBook Air, and am looking forward to the introduction of the iPad.

jk1002:

>>what are you going to do about it?<<

Admittedly they dropped the ball on Beoport. Question is, is that an up to date product? 

Very good comments and I agree on the whole.  I'll touch upon a couple only.

Yes, BeoPort is a dated product but it is the only bridge between my digital music and my B&O.  

BM5 is dead to me because I am not about to start managing two separate music libraries and updating BM5 manually via BeoConnect and backing them up separately.  Our music acquisition gyrates around iTunes: a new CD is imported on a Mac; a song is purchased on either of our iPhones; an album is purchased on our MacBooks; and iTunes automatically updates our main home iTunes library.  If B&O wants to sell a BM5+BS5 to us, they have to sell it with software that will automatically synchronize with iTunes.  

People have talked about a B&O iPod dock.  In fact such a product already exists from one of the Danish houses and the public at large has bought millions of units of that product type.  Completely irrelevant to my situation and not very useful to us.

A great marriage of technology and excellent gateway drug to B&O would be to issue Beo5 with user-configurable software, preferably available on Macintosh.

The BeoComs should all be able to import telephone numbers from the Apple Address Book via a USB DECT gizmo.  If they were able to do it for Serene, why not Mac?

9 LEE:

XavierItzmann:

Lee - Mac + PC

I use a PC because i have to at work. No other reason.

AVG is the 'work antivirus of choice' and the Norton thing made me chuckle to myself as AVG pops up like a proud ringmaster as often as it can to tell me it's zapped an advertising pop-up or quarantined a nasty. It also makes my hard drive crackle like a firework and slows it to a crawl when it's having a clean up, which seems like every hour.  My Mac...  it just takes a large inhale of fresh air and smiles at me, virus free and working as fast as the day i got it, every day, all day.

However, i'm with Peter that this isn't about flaming - or, something i often feel guilty of - being a MacEvangelist.  This thread is about B&O listening to Mac Users and perhaps doing something about making better interfaces with B&O.

I do know that B&O are acutely aware of issues either before us or at the same time as us - and when they don't act there's usually a good reason, be it technical or financial.   Personally, i'd like to see someone from B&O at least publically address the issue and answer some questions. However, i don't see that happening as long as i have my own hair and teeth.

I'm also aware that Apple are pretty aloof when it comes to 'small fry' like B&O and are fiercely protective over the OS and Software. I really wouldn't blame them either. However, they must surely see a synergy - which is why they stock A8's etc.

To be honest, would Microsoft have been that interested if Torben hadn't been a 'pal' ?  We could question that if hadn't pulled so much weight with the Lego thing, would they have spared B&O time too?  Who knows - i'm just throwing ideas.

Lee

 

I have AVG on Win 7, it's never "popped" anywhere since last October when it was installed (although it updates for a few seconds everyday)! I'll repeat, at least 80% of the programs I need to use for a living run on nothing other than a flavour of windows.

There are loads of reasons why windows is a problem for home "computerists", mostly self inflicted - there are loads of other reasons why windows is the choice of industry. They shouldn't need to be debated here, this is a "B&O General Forum" - Mac/Apple fans, please go to the the B&O/Apple Forum. 

I understand, I really do, but then I prefer Sonar to Logic, go figure!

(and btw, if Microsoft did what Apple did with Logic Audio there'd have been a world wide lawsuit)!

PEOPLE LIKE WHAT PEOPLE LIKE - LEAVE THEM ALONE - EVERYONE DOSEN'T ASPIRE TO A MERC & APPLE - VIVE LA DIFFERENCE!

Puncher:

PEOPLE LIKE WHAT PEOPLE LIKE - LEAVE THEM ALONE - EVERYONE DOSEN'T ASPIRE TO A MERC & APPLE - VIVE LA DIFFERENCE!

At the end of the day... it's just 0's and 1's...

burantek:

Puncher:

PEOPLE LIKE WHAT PEOPLE LIKE - LEAVE THEM ALONE - EVERYONE DOSEN'T ASPIRE TO A MERC & APPLE - VIVE LA DIFFERENCE!

At the end of the day... it's just 0's and 1's...

Thankyou!

It's just a different way of doing the same stuff, one is better at this, the other is better at that.....................I've never understood why it has to be Black & White. If it's better at doing what you do then it's the right tool for you, if it's not and you want to labour on with the wrong tool for the wrong reasons then more the fool you!

If you need it coz it does what you need to do then that's what you need to have, if you want it coz it does what you want to do then that's what you want ...................... if you want it coz it's stylish then that's what you want too! Everyone has their reasons - all are valid to them.

Lie and let live

Im have been in IT for 20 years so I can  tell that people aren't agreeing because they  are arguing different points!

PC rules the roost iin business as it's the industry standard, the machines are cheap as chips these days and the range of sotware available is unrivalled. The only exception being in the 'creative' field where MACs still rule the roost.

BUT.....!

When we choose a home computer we are not procuring corporate IT, we are buying a  home PC and Apple products are better looking and easier to use.

Simple......

wirralsimon:

Im have been in IT for 20 years so I can  tell that people aren't agreeing because they  are arguing different points!

PC rules the roost iin business as it's the industry standard, the machines are cheap as chips these days and the range of sotware available is unrivalled. The only exception being in the 'creative' field where MACs still rule the roost.

BUT.....!

When we choose a home computer we are not procuring corporate IT, we are buying a  home PC and Apple products are better looking and easier to use.

 

Simple......

You missed a TS - Tssimple.......................for home pc's - I agree wholeheartedly with your differetiation.

I have owned B&O since 1997 but use a PC, and drive an Italian car. During my high school years I actually used an Apple Powerbook but became very frustrated with it because of the neverending sandtimer and the lack of video games on the platform. Perhaps with the new bootcamp technology, it might be a good time to try Apple once more? Be that as it may, there's no reason why B&O can't cater to both groups. Software can be ported for multiple platforms.

Interesting too the "flaming" section in this thread. All it takes is for a few choice, impolite and snide remarks from a poster to start a heated argument. B&O ownership certainly does not prove that one has had a good upbringing.

Leo

Well i just bought a new imac, and it reminds me alot of b&o for it's innovative design and functions.

there is a clear comparison in the design and quality between these brands

Dave:

Well i just bought a new imac, and it reminds me alot of b&o for it's innovative design and functions.

 

there is a clear comparison in the design and quality between these brands

I think what people gloss over is that there are brands other than Dell/HP/Lenovo/Toshiba in the market who make products that leave Apple's build quality and design for dead.  I'm a rare exception to this thread having gone from exclusively Apple products to going to well built quality made PC's and Windows 7 (I do have the German car though).  I think that B&O know loud and clear their customers want better Apple integration...my god you guys scream loud enough about it every day here!

i wasn't trying to start a mac vs pc flamewar , my op just shows that people with disposable income ( buying for the home ) seem to gravitate towards macs and so bno should realise this ( i'm sure they do now ) and act accordingly , many times price seems to be a factor in the windows world and bno don't want to even think about entering that market - or they really ARE finished

honestly , i couldn't care less what computer people use and as for being a fan boy - some of apple's products aren't very good at all imo - i've had at least 5 ipods over the years and every one's gone kaput due to battery problems , my ipod touch only lasted 18 months , not very impressed

This thread really isn't about Apple versus Microsoft, and their platform, but about marketing. And as such the flaming that broke out above is quite unnecessary, if we're to address the real issue.

Xavieritzman (a namesake - my middle name is Xavier) put his finger on it, by indicating that by previous management's reasoning, B&O itself would be a pretty uninteresting market to cater to. In fact, as evidenced by the number of other brands that wished to associate themselves with B&O through the years, we know B&O users comprise a very attractive market.

A monumental mistake was committed when B&O failed to understand what segment Apple addresses: architects, designers, musicians, music producers, filmmakers, television producers, people in graphics, advertising, writers - bla, bla, bla. But it's the same market that B&O appealed to in its heyday. (There's a reason why you find the Beolab 5000 in A Clockwork Orange.)

From the early 90s, Apple has been a partner of the music and film industries, co-developing products to fit with professional needs. Just the Core-Audio capabilities alone should be reason for a company such as B&O to have exploited this: Do you want the same quality that film and music professionals rely upon, through your B&O?

What better carriers of your message/your product? I've seen U2 members in Ireland each with a Mac in their lap; by now it's almost tiresome how often Mac's appear in movies and tv-programs. After the introduction of the iPhone, Apple's caught the public imagination - and B&O could have been part of it from the moment iTunes/iPods were launched.

Instead we got the BeoSound 2, with no drivers for Macs. And where B&O had to scramble when irate Mac-owners informed Struer "Why the **** can't I buy a BeoSound 2, are you crazy?"

Water under the bridge, but the fact that it's still not a priority is simply not acceptable. 

What's B&O about: superior sound and image, conveniently accessible throughout your home.

Apple in A/V: Superior acquisition, storage, retrieval and playback of digital content.

The target market overlap between the two brands is strong, which isn't to say that there aren't a lot of very interesting, capable and wealthy people who use PCs. But B&O mgt totally ignored the Apple-user market, and the Apple-platform capabilities. The most serious consequence being that B&O peripherals seem old and clunky, when they aren't, it's the media handling that's out of date. And the brand is suffering as a consequence.
Imagine being a BeoMedia owner, and then checking out an Apple-TV ... which is  controlled with a remote that has six button functions.

There should be a Fast Track Mission Urgent B&O/Apple Integration Team at B&O ... there isn't.

XavierItzmann:

Peter :

However plenty of owners also have PCs and this would probably still be a healthy majority.

 

What you say is possible, no doubt.  But I took the time to go back through this thread and see who actually declared what is it that they use or own.  Here is my tally of those who declared, and I apologize if I missed or misinterpreted anyone.

Soundproof - Mac

Lee - Mac + PC

Cooldude - Mac

Burantek - Mac

Beocool - Mac

Rwst - Mac

Jkl002 - Mac

Vikinger - Mac

Flapper - Mac

Superdario - Mac

PhilLondon - Mac

Puncher - PC

 

BTW, we also found out that German cars are strongly preferred around this crop of self-selected Bang & Olufsen enthusiasts, with a Swedish automobile outlier here and there

Now, the onus on B&O management is to answer: at at time when some of your most enthusiastic and loyal customers prefer Apple products, what are you going to do about it?

i use a italian car, because of the styling and the engine... ;-) but i like also german cars like bmw/audi and i've created advertising for bmw sauber f1 team.

XavierItzmann:

Peter :

However plenty of owners also have PCs and this would probably still be a healthy majority.

 

What you say is possible, no doubt.  But I took the time to go back through this thread and see who actually declared what is it that they use or own.  Here is my tally of those who declared, and I apologize if I missed or misinterpreted anyone.

Soundproof - Mac

Lee - Mac + PC

Cooldude - Mac

Burantek - Mac

Beocool - Mac

Rwst - Mac

Jkl002 - Mac

Vikinger - Mac

Flapper - Mac

Superdario - Mac

PhilLondon - Mac

Puncher - PC

 

BTW, we also found out that German cars are strongly preferred around this crop of self-selected Bang & Olufsen enthusiasts, with a Swedish automobile outlier here and there

Now, the onus on B&O management is to answer: at at time when some of your most enthusiastic and loyal customers prefer Apple products, what are you going to do about it?

You forgot me! -Mac all the way.