Hi All

I have been looking around the forum today for some info out of interest.

I just wondered what the limitations of the Beosystem 3 are that is in the BV7 MK3

I read that it can now support 24fps

I also read that it cannot be upgraded to HDMI V1.3 and there is no True HD sound is this correct?

WHat limitiations are there and how do they affect us?

the HDMI version is 1.1

The sound decoder of the BV7-BS3 cannot decode DD TrueHD or DTS HD MA.

But it supports 7.1 multichannel PCM (also within the specs of HDMI v1.1). So every player which can decode DD TrueHD and/or DTS HD MA itself can be used with the BV7 - BS3.

will the BS3 ever have the option to upgrade to be able to decode TrueHD?

I have been looking at the Panasonic BD60 blu ray player does that output 7.1 mutlichannel PCM.

I must say its a bit junk that is cannot play the newest sound formats.

Hi Seanie,

This is not correct! You can listen to the new sound formats.

I can (as you can) listen to DVD Audio, SACD, Blu-ray (DD TrueHD, DTS HD MA) with a HDMI connected BR player with my BS3 (mkI).

I use a Panasonic BD35 and Oppo's DV-981HD & BDP83.

The BD35 can output 7.1 multich PCM through HDMI and I looked at Blu-ray.com, if their specs are correct the BD60 should also

Hi thanks for your input

can anyone else confirm that the BD60 can output in the format we need 7.1 PCM??? Over HDMI

You cannot listen to the new sound formats even if the player you are intend to use supports it im afraid. This is due to the particular hardware configuration and the somewhat hazy interpretation of what hdmi1.1 is capable of.

When the unit is upgraded to 1.3 you can be sure it will work- I would wait

hi there 355f

i thought the BS3 was not upgradable to HDMI 1.3a?

and i thought that BV7 MK3 can decode 7.1 PCM as my BV supports 7.1 in the tech spec

it says it can decode dolby ex 7.1 but i believe it has to be via PCM rather than bitstream.

355f has it wrong!

Most people think they MUST have HDMI 1.3 to listen to DDTHrueHD or DTS HD MA.

You need HDMI 1.3 to bitstream these formats from a player to a soundprocessor.

But if the player decodes the formats (DD TrueHD or DTS HD MA) and output them as multichannel PCM over HDMI (version 1.1 and higher have these capability) than your soundprocessor doesn't need HDMI 1.3 or the capability to decode DD TrueHD and/or DTS HD MA.

So a BV7 (MKIII & MKIV) and BS3 do have HDMI v1.1 and the soundprocessor of both can handle multichannel PCM, therefore with a right player you CAN listen to DD TrueHD and/or DTS HD MA.

Note: the new Bluray player in the BV7 is HDMI connected to the BV7 (you will loose one HDMI connection). This player has the capability to decode DD TrueHD; thus the specs say it is possible to listen to DD TrueHD. With an external player it is just the same!

see:

http://www.dts.com/Consumer_Electronics/Home_Theater/~/media/C35B8B50267C4E3CAE535B200B3F8C84.ashx

in contrast to

http://www.dts.com/Consumer_Electronics/Home_Theater/~/media/010E3C7B77DE4F1FB31E38631454A1E3.ashx

Carolpa:

 

The BD35 can output 7.1 multich PCM through HDMI and I looked at Blu-ray.com, if their specs are correct the BD60 should also

thanks for the reply

so now i just need to find out if the BD60 does infact output 7.1 PCM over HDMI as they BD35 does as the spec does not show this on the websites i have looked at.

see

http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Video/Blu-ray-Disc-Players/model.DMP-BD60K.S_11002_7000000000000005702#tabsection

hi

I am actually manufacturing the stuff! and i dont have it wrong- we had a huge debate on here before about it. It does not work and its not upgradeable to 1.3

Carolpa is exactly correct. As mentioned here, there is a lengthy thread discussing this topic. There are numerous articles cited in that thread, as well as, if memory serves me, correspondence from B and O that explain and confirm that it works. Listening to a Blu-Ray with one of the HD formats played in a player that does the decoding and comparing it to the same movie on a traditional DVD also convincingly demonstrates it. The ability of the BV7 to receive PCM is further demonstrated by the BV7 itself in that the sound menu will indicate it is receiving PCM when the player does the decoding.

true it is NOT upgradable to HDMI v1.3!

But

NOT true that you need HDMI v1.3

I bought especial the BS3 when it was introduced because of this feature. That way I could listen to DVD Audio HDMI connected to the BS3 (the player decoded the signal; outputs multichannel PCM; the input signal on my Beosystem 3 reads Multichannel PCM).

The same with multichannel SACD; it is decoded by my player to multichannel PCM.

The same with the bluray players: DD TrueHD is decoded by the player; it is outputted by the player as multichannel PCM; the input in my BS3 reads multichannel PCM. Also the same for DTS HD MA.

You should check how the new Bluray player in the BV7-40 is connected and how it reproduce DD TrueHD! The decoder in the BV7-40 has NOT changed.

Carolpa:

 

 

You should check how the new Bluray player in the BV7-40 is connected and how it reproduce DD TrueHD! The decoder in the BV7-40 has NOT changed.

 

 

Excellent point. 

Carolpa:

 

 

 

You should check how the new Bluray player in the BV7-40 is connected and how it reproduce DD TrueHD! The decoder in the BV7-40 has NOT changed.

 

 

Excellent point. Totally correct.

Seanie:

Carolpa:

 

The BD35 can output 7.1 multich PCM through HDMI and I looked at Blu-ray.com, if their specs are correct the BD60 should also

thanks for the reply

so now i just need to find out if the BD60 does infact output 7.1 PCM over HDMI as they BD35 does as the spec does not show this on the websites i have looked at.

 

The BD60 of Panasonic can decode DTS HD and DD TrueHD to Multichannel PCM and can output Multichannel PCM through HDMI

Ah Razlaw- your memory does not serve you correctly.

One should recall that the general conclusion was that using an hdmi 1.3 player with the BS3 which is 1.1 does seem to allow some improvement over the standard sound but its NOT the real thing- not even in the specs im afraid and furthermore with the tests I had undertaken in the lab with the panasonic machines- it did NOT work.  HDMI is not a precise science im afraid.

Furthermore B&O would not say that the BS3 supoorted DTSMA ect- only a misguided reponse and indeed many here tried to get B&O to confirm it. It was rather interesting at the time that some maintained they were getting DTSMA even though the macjhine they had at the time was proven not to work effectively with the BS3 and allow it!! 

The poster should contact B&O and ask for a list of players that decode DTSMA and other formats that when so connected will play these formats with no downconversion- Only then should one buy the BS3 which is now outdated and when it gets upgradedit will indeed support the new formats. The BR mech in the BV7 is hardly state of the art either

My memory serves me well as I have confirmed by re=reading the threads. There are, exactly as I said, emails from B and O confirming that DTS and Dolby HD work

355f

Situation 1: player pass through DD TrueHD as bitstream to a soundprocessor (one needs HDMI v1.3 in this situation)

The DD TrueHD is in original format send over to the decoder in the soundprocessor. This decoder transforms it to multichannel PCM. This format is used by the soundprocessor to reproduce.

see

http://www.dts.com/Consumer_Electronics/Home_Theater/~/media/010E3C7B77DE4F1FB31E38631454A1E3.ashx

Situation 2: the player decodes DD TrueHD to multichannel PCM and pass this format through HDMI to the soundprocessor (HDMI v 1.1 or higher)

The player outputs multichannel PCM to the soundprocessor. The decoder of the soundprocessor is bypassed and this format is used to repoduce

see

http://www.dts.com/Consumer_Electronics/Home_Theater/~/media/C35B8B50267C4E3CAE535B200B3F8C84.ashx

In both cases the final format for the soundprocessor is PCM (finally what you will hear), only the place where it is decoded is different; so it is still the real thing!

Note: DD TrueHD, DTS HD MA, MLP are not a final sound format, but they are a sort of container; a way to compress (multichannel) PCM audio formats lossless. They all are a zipped like variant of PCM. The industry has two reasons to do so: 1) the amount of space used with multichannel PCM is twice of the compressed container, 2) this way they have a way of "copy protection" of their material. PCM can be handled with PC's right-away where the other formats are NOT.

Razlaw:

My memory serves me well as I have confirmed by re=reading the threads. There are, exactly as I said, emails from B and O confirming that DTS and Dolby HD work

No Razlaw - the BV7-40 MKIV can't, internally, through it's own Blu-ray player support some of these audio formats, such as DTS HD. It states this on the B&O website! :) This implies neither the BV7-40 nor the BS3 can decode this audio stream.

However, if your player (ie. PS3) decodes it for the BS3, then outputs this as a PCM stream, it's supported. Please get your facts right and stop quoting vague 'it's supported'. It's not. I own the BV7-40 MKIV and the internal Blu-ray player doesn't support DTS HD. B&O confirmed.

From the site "Sound wise the Blu-ray player in BeoVision 7-40 supports the following formats: Dolby Digital 5.1, Dolby Digital + 7.1, Dolby Digital True HD 7.1, DTS 5.1, LPCM 7.1. Blu-ray discs with DTS HD 7.1 or DTS HD Master 7.1 will be decoded as DTS 5.1".

Once the player is upgraded to support DTS HD, then the player will decode and pass it to the BV7, through the HDMI cable, as a PCM stream or similar.

hi,

you have a point, but bottom line: one can listen to "the real thing" with the BV7-40 (mkIII / mkIV) & BS3 if one has a capable player which can decode these formats!

And for the moment, to have ALL the hi-res formats one has to connect an external player (with the right decoder!).

Razlaw:

My memory serves me well as I have confirmed by re=reading the threads. There are, exactly as I said, emails from B and O confirming that DTS and Dolby HD work

I think this is blurring the issue. Most here accept that DTS and Dolby HD do not work with the BS3 - what seems to work is PCM. It's like saying my old CRT TV can decode satellite TV, as long as I use a satellite Decoder connected to the scart socket - what my TV actually "decodes" is scart signals not satellite!

I believe there were also questions about the word lengths/sample rates that could be handled and whether the BS3 did any sort of downconversion on the incoming PCM stream.

thanks for all your interesting replies and i will go and buy the BD60 as i need a player anyway.

edit:

Also i have conculeded that the BS3 is a pile of Junk that cannot be upgraded and it just a old fasioned AMP.

No upgrade for HDMI 1.3

As normal were expected to wiat and spend another 9K on a BV

Not in this lifetime

double [post

hi 355f

I am curious?

Could you explain what in your opinion a DDTrueHD or DTS HD or MLP audio file contains?