I think Bang are ahead of the game in a lot of respects with the 5.  I think its time is yet to come.  Some further SW work will help as features are updated and improved over time  - something that cant be done extensively to exisiting Bang systems.... However a price reduction would entice further sales i think....

The more I play with the BS5 as  hands on product the more I like it. The operation of it is just delightfully quirky but after a while it just makes sense.

However the further development of B&O in the digital world is, IMHO, hampered by Struer's lacking in 4 key areas;

1. Automatic ripping/copying of digital media to the Beo5 on a pc, why oh why should I waste my time trying to learn how to use such  cumbersome piece of software ie BeoPlayer. To be fair, on a Mac copying is  a relative breeze.

2. The Beo5 is key to operation of the B&O link system. Quite frankly B&Os support for this product is absolutely shameful! This site hs taught me all I know about the Beo5 and now we can happily program it to work just about anything. The official support channels seem to know nothing about this products full capabilities!

3. On screen navigation. Why in the year 2009 we still cannot navigate through our music collection via a B&O television? This is a complete joke!!

4. Following on from point 3, 2 way communication. Here B&O have just lost the plot. Every other digital music platform I know has navigation through ones collection on numerous devices eg TVs, Touchsceens, remotes as standard. And to add further insult to injury I hear that we can turn off  television in a childs bedroom via the Masterlink gateway, well to be honest if I do not know for sure that particulr tv is turned off. What is the point?

Are theese B&O excuses?

MOTS: this seems to be an excuse from B&O to take our minds off the fact that they haven't the technology to multiroom digital audio properly or more seriously. They can't!!

Masterlink Gateway:Lets bring out a box that leaves all the hardbits of home automation to other manufacturers?

 

I'd also like to add that I didn't fall for the BS5 until I went to a dealer a couple times and spent some quality time with it.  When I first saw the price, features and pictures, I said, "nope, I definitely don't need that!".  Saw it briefly at my local dealer, same reaction. 

Unfortunately (for my bank account) I could not leave well enough alone, and I stopped into a friendly B&O store while traveling on business with some time to kill.  The manager gave me a tour and let me play.  This started the ball rolling... I warmed to its styling, materials, interface and, yes, minimal features (I already have too many computers, I really don't want another!). I then "accidentally" showed it to my wife and all bets were off.  She loved it.  I think she especially loved the idea of cleaning up the 100s of CDs scattered throughout the house and never again having to search high and low for a CD (just spin the wheel).  It has met expectations so far...

So, if the BS5 truely is not living up to expectations, maybe it is because it takes time to grow on you...

Stan

A BS 3200 i iTunes connected via Airport, does everything we want. Listen CD, have a BL System and a lot CD´s you can listen via iTunes.

I am awaiting "gapless" playing and a 2 way remote. Other then that I don't see anything wrong with it at this point. Maybe the christmas music issue but I would just remove that from the product during off season .... not having gapless though and no 2 way is a show stopper.

I have looked at Sonos but do not like the remote. Also I wouldn't want to run a PC all day. The Apple TV concept is OK, but draws a lot of energy which I think should be avoided.

 

Since it is obviously quiet tricky to get music right I am honestly happy they didn't give video a shot. Just get music right.

 

The beauty of this product is, they could technically fix it ... 2 way is supposed to be in the pipeline .... just do better mac support.

 

 

jk1002:

I am awaiting "gapless" playing and a 2 way remote. Other then that I don't see anything wrong with it at this point. Maybe the christmas music issue but I would just remove that from the product during off season .... not having gapless though and no 2 way is a show stopper.

There is gapless playback when you encode your music in lossless WMA.

Stan

Here's my take. Rife though it may be with bias!

The BeoSound 5 has been a boon to many stores and a bust to others. B&O is mum on its performance overall and, while I suspect it is underperforming, I would take any one dealer's story and generalize it overall. That being said, we're in the very early stages of this product and with audio systems in the portfolio that are inching toward their second decade in production it's a little early to declare victory or defeat. 

Having lived with it now at home and sold it in the store (mine is one for whom it's been a boon), I think that it comes down to whether or not you think that Audio Systems as a concept have become obsolete. To my mind the BeoSound 5 relates to the Apple TV or other media servers the way the BeoSound 9000 & BeoCenter 2500 related to "CD decks" of the day. The thinking being that you can buy a cheap black box with a plastic tray if you'd like, or you can make your music listening a multi-sensory endeavor that brings you added measures of enjoyment with each use. Definitely not for everyone, but with the world population approaching 7 billion people I think there's a case to be made for variety!

Now the BeoSound 5 answers the complaints of people like me who find the Apple TV utterly incapable of fulfilling not only my needs, but most importantly my desires. It ties itself too closely to the iTunes music store and its content and navigating it is about as convenient and enjoyable as reading a phone book. It's just a database in a box. Competitors only get worse (and in most cases prohibitively complex).

Soundproof asked "what is it" and the answer is that it's a stereo!

Now as I said, if you believe that the stereo is a dead concept (and I admit that there's a case to be made for that, just as getting the NY Times on a kindle makes physical newspapers seem obsolete) than skip the BeoSound 5 by all means. But for me and most of my clients it's a concept that they've been longing for in a market that refuses to develop a multimedia platform beyond scrolling through lists.

The BeoSound 5, aside from it's emotional engagement and mechanical charm (which can certainly be debated or dismissed), it provides faster browsing, better playback quality, and the best IP radio interface going. It also has MOTS, which I personally find to be the coolest thing in a stereo EVER!

In closing, however, I will note my one major criticism: The BeoSound 5 should be wireless. It really should live on a coffee table and I've come to install it near the listening position in most of the units I've sold. I'm guessing that Moxxey would probably regret his purchase less (or even enjoy it!) if the BeoSound 5 was sitting on his coffee table with a 7-8 hour battery (like many new laptops) and could be replaced in a cradle overnight.

Thanks for indulging such a long post.  

Simply I think BS5 is B&O biggest mistake after CD-i and BeoCenter AV5, just to many reasons for "NO"! I don't want to state any of them because we already know.

My question is how come that company like B&O came up with an idea to realize such a product in the era of Apple iPod, iPhone, Apple TV ....

Do they think they can compete with them ? I'm agree Apple have bad quality sound reproduction, but also apple have lossless ! And which digital reproduction is perfect ?

I hoppe B&O iPod dock will be the best seller in the following years .... and I hope B&O will soon discontinue BS5 and stop embarrassment !

Come on, we need good audio innovation, stunning design, wow effect and little magic ! And ..... asking price of 7000 whatever ..... no problem ! Everyone is happy

I believe in B&O and I'm sure they will come up with something ..... something B&O !

 

I played with it several times now at two dealers. And I really like the design of the front-end. However, some important things as already mentioned multiple times above are missing. For me the most important are:

1. I already have a large digital collection on a server. I do not need /want another storage solution, I need a front-end enabling me to access that collection throughout my house..
2. I need integrated support for Apple iTunes (and I suggest B&O to support the major players in this field, including those offering high-end audio servers)
3. Integration with multiple devices like my iPhone, TV, (two-way) Beo 5, ...

>> and I hope B&O will soon discontinue BS5 and stop embarrassment !<<

I would like them to fix it. I still very much want something like this. Put few features in and get them right. Now about the "right" we can very much argue. For example I run a NAS as well and wouldn't mind the overhead of a beomedia type box. I must have though a solution other then WAV to get gapless .... make it work for AAC or MP3.

I am hoping in another year they get it right through updates ..... They need a concept like this to survive in the music market. CDs are getting harder and harder to come by these days ....

 

 

I honestly think that the product is a step in the direction of where the world is moving, but is not the step I would have taken.  While not a fan of the interface type, I can see why there would be desire to go this route (buttons and wheels vs touchscreen).  What shocks me are some of the design decisions that make the system far more limited in use than it could be.  I say that knowing full well what others in the market are already doing and have plans to do.

I posted an encounter I had in my local B&O store today regarding the BS5, and after seeing this thread just now, I'm even more surprised by the salesperson's attitude:

Bad Salesmanship - Not doing BS5 any favors

One specific comment he had was how the reaction he has seen from people in forums around the world regarding the BS5 has been overwhelmingly positive.  Now, I won't deny that some folks really do love the BS5.  But, if we're being honest, there are more than a few folks who do not like it.  Sure there are software features which, if added, will add back some of what people feel is missing.  However, I think that in opposition to what the salesguy was saying today, the product isn't great for most folks as-is.  

I really do hope that B&O do more with the product and I'll certainly keep an eye on what new developments roll out for the BS5.

 

TripEnglish:

Here's my take. Rife though it may be with bias!

...

Thanks for indulging such a long post.

You are a consummate salesman!

Harry2008:

 

I played with it several times now at two dealers. And I really like the design of the front-end. However, some important things as already mentioned multiple times above are missing. For me the most important are:

 

1. I already have a large digital collection on a server. I do not need /want another storage solution, I need a front-end enabling me to access that collection throughout my house..
2. I need integrated support for Apple iTunes (and I suggest B&O to support the major players in this field, including those offering high-end audio servers)
3. Integration with multiple devices like my iPhone, TV, (two-way) Beo 5, ...

 

I agree, a front end to existing storage systems does make sense. Why reinvent the wheel.

On-screen navigation of music with the TV is a must. I don't listen to digital music the same way I listened to CD, Cassette Tapes, or LPs. That means that I  don't navigate the same way. We live in a world where it's ok to listen to digital music, and navigate your collection through a six foot interfacce.

Two-way navigation. Open the platform up to other technologies. For example Sonos offers an Iphone app to control its servers. How difficult can this be?

Integration with Itunes. I'm not an Apple fan-boy, but let's get real; Itunes is the defacto standard.

An integrated CD player and FM radio. Yes, I know how 20th Century. Do we have to be purists about everything? It's been a while since I've seriously listened to CDs, but now I have to rip my entire CD collection or have two stereos. One for digital files stored on a B&O server, and another for CDs and FM radio. Please don't tell me about internet radio, there is still a bit of local content left. If only the traffic report? Yes FM. Sorry gentlemen, FM is still important for my morning NPR fix.

I so much wanted to like this product. I have played with it at the store, and I love the look and feel. There is some magic. It's just not enough to want me to try too hard to fall in love with it.

I remember the magic of that first BM2400 I saw some 30 years ago. I later bought my first B&O it was a BM3000. You knew what it did, and you knew it right away. You didn't have to learn to love it or live with it. It also did more than other products at the time (not less). For example Datalink, and IR remote control.

Again, I'm not BS5 expert, but with the exception of MOTS, the design, and the materials, it seems that this product does less than products costing a fraction of the price. It's really hard to design more into a product while appearing to have less (these were the minimalist designs of old), but that's what makes it worth paying more. Give me that minimalist design that blows me away, not the one that makes me say, "but my AppleTV will do that for less." It pains me to say, that that is what I say.

Soundproof asked "what is it" and the answer is that it's a stereo!

Yes! I do most of my music listening to stereo, I enjoy the interaction of the BS 5, and the fact that it integrates well with other B&O kit.

As I said in my initial comment, the only thing missing is that B&O should have made this an uncompromisingly audiophile stereo playback unit. High-grade, multi sample-rate DAC, ease retrieval and playback of high-res sources, maybe even offer a generation 2 BeoLab 5 that accepts higher than 24/96 sample rates.

Why - because then you would have created a big splash in the audio market, it would have given B&O a lot of needed attention, and people wouldn't be expecting it to do a lot of other stuff (video, etc.) - they would have gotten what it was: a high-end stereo playback unit that was nonpareil.
If it had been sufficiently uncompromising, I might even have considered resampling a lot of my music to BS/MB5 spec's, instead of expecting it to integrate with my iTunes/ReadyNAS from day 1.

And I agree, wireless. I would have loved to have this beatiful unit at my hand, as I picked music and started it playing from the hidden docking station that was connected to my BL5s.

With the above, there would have been one in my listening room. As it is spec'd now? No.

Well I agree with Trip...I find the Apple TV great for downloading or renting the occasional film or tv show, but for listening to music it is pretty clumsy; for my part I do not want to switch the television on to listen to a song. I have had the BS5 since the start of the year and for its role as a stereo it is simple and convenient - even the kids use it. I don't have a problem lifting myself out of a chair to change tracks, anyone who is familiar with the days of vinyl will appreciate this is a small inconvenience, though will still look forward to a two way remote when this eventually comes (maybe an iPhone app?). I note that the automatic update feature has upgraded the software recently - now that was a surprise! P

I don't see the AppleTV and the BeoSound 5 as in the same category. But a lot of people were clearly hoping for video integration, etc., and so B&O finds itself looking for ways to implement this. That's not my point at all - I would have loved to see an uncompromisingly audiophile BS5, as described above.

Just a small correction: you do not have to switch on the TV to use AppleTV, you can switch ATV on, put it in standby, and access all of its stored or networked resources using an iPod Touch, and you can send the sound of ATV to any room in the house equipped with an airtunes unit, again just using a Touch or iPhone.

The screen image that would have been on your television is sent to your hand. Accessing and controlling media is very simple.

 

 

Peter2:

I don't have a problem lifting myself out of a chair to change tracks, anyone who is familiar with the days of vinyl will appreciate this is a small inconvenience, though will still look forward to a two way remote when this eventually comes (maybe an iPhone app?).

With a decent two way remote isn't the BS5 redundant? I think a lot of folk think the BS5 should've been the decent two way remote!

Puncher and tripenglish said it right; The BS 5 should have been the 2-way remote! Imagine that unit on your coffee table...brilliant!

Puncher:

With a decent two way remote isn't the BS5 redundant? I think a lot of folk think the BS5 should've been the decent two way remote!

Yes, you're right as the Beosound 5 simply controls the BM5. A two-way remote would interact with the BM5. All the software is based on the BM5 not the BS5.

moxxey:

Puncher:

With a decent two way remote isn't the BS5 redundant? I think a lot of folk think the BS5 should've been the decent two way remote!

Yes, you're right as the Beosound 5 simply controls the BM5. A two-way remote would interact with the BM5. All the software is based on the BM5 not the BS5.

now that would of been a fantastic product in the wish list, it cannot be that hard to make a product that is as userfreidnly as I tunes

Exactly.

Wireless - and I can place it next to my listening chair or next to the sofa. If I can have WLAN in a small phone, there must be room for the card in the BS5.

Interacts easily with whatever sound source I have, that is digitally stored, without my having to reload these.

Allows 24bit/96kHz files (to the limit of the BL5s - but I would like to see 24bit/192kHz, and an upgrade for existing BL5s.)

The same interaction as today, but with a service for album art, so that I can easily replace low resolution covers.

A net service to B&O's site for purchasing both CD and higher than CD-resolution sources, either as a stand-alone, or as a portal to the many such offers that are appearing now. (Check out HD-Tracks for their high-resolution store.)

The docking unit is hidden away, connected to my speakers and to the wireless unit. Maybe the BS5/BM5 is even capable of controlling my B&O CD-player and to pass its signal through, without my having to touch the Beo4 or Beo5, everything happens through the BS5 control panel.

I would probably have two of those now. If it existed. And what bothers me is that they could easily have done it ... with what they used.

Slightly OT but related in a way -

Engaging with Enthusiasts

I love my AV5 and its well sought after even today. :P

I have a 3 zone sonos system set up in my house.  One zone is connected to my BS9000 via the aux, and I have 2 other free standing zones including outdoor patio speakers.  All wireless and the sound is great.  If B&O made the BS5 wireless with all of the functionality of the sonos, I'd buy it in a second.  But now, why? 

The BS5 is hardwired into the BM5 and cannot be moved.  It lacks the ability to stream Rhapsody and Sirius like the sonos.  It's, honestly, quite expensive for what it can't do.  My dealer called my up when this unit came out knowing I was interested in it, but he was too late.  I already had the sonos and it just does so much more. 

Make it wireless, get the ability to stream music services, keep that special B&O tactile magical feel and I'd buy it in a second.

Dude1:

I love my AV5 and its well sought after even today. :P

Sorry, what I meant  is not completely AV5 only implementation of CD-i format, to implement such format they spent to much money and recourse ..