Something I found out today is that volume is non-linear and one of the drawbacks is the volume. It's doing 100W max using my pc output and that's at absolutely no distortion, but driving it higher is proving difficult as I need to go above line-level on the input.

The 500's might do the trick but no chance will they fit in the bottom and on spec they would blow the Pentas at high volume.

A.

Hello,

Very interesting.  It seems very 'plug and play'.

Are the 200ASC powerfull enough for the Penta?  I've seen that Peter Pan uses the 500ASP in his configuration.

Kind regards
Joost 

They are not as loud as the originals amps as the line-in is designed to output 100W at 8ohm with no distortion. I presume you're getting another 30W extra with the 150/200's before distortion kicks in.

The 500ASP outputs 250W @ 8ohm. It would only take a incorrect volume control to destroy the tweeter as it's rated at 200W absolute max. I'm not sure about the other components though the speakers are rated at 150W so others possibly would be destroyed as well.

Andrew

Hi,

I'm thinking on fitting the ICEpower amps (external) to my RL7000's (my penta's are already active :-).  They now are connected to a Beolink Passive and then by powerlink to my AV9000 as front speakers.

So I would like to connect the ICEpower amps with Powerlink cables.  With the treads of Peter Pan I can come a whole end on how to do that.

But concerning the earth connection, I wonder if it is possible to use the ground of the powerlink cable?

Kind regards
Joost 

joostdeclercq
.
Would you like to use earth connection on Power Link, so only ground connection screw on the cabinet.
.

.
http://www.hifi4all.dk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32157&PN=1
.
/ Peter Pan

Class D amplifier test

http://74.125.79.113/translate_c?hl=da&sl=da&tl=en&u=http://www.hifi4all.dk/content/templates/anmeldelser.asp%3Farticleid%3D1431%26zoneid%3D3&usg=ALkJrhgUS_ZqIFFjjSx-BRIf-ru8bg_qhA

Great job, I will be going class D also some day!

camshaft, do you have som more detaild specs on the midrange speakers in the Pentas? It mostly the sensitivity I am worried about.

I might have found som replacements from Peerless, but I need more info to know if I am close. They do not fit perfect mechanically but I do not really see a problem with that Unfortenatly they are 8ohms also but I guess I can figure out how to modify the filters to work properly. As I see it it should be impossible to fail since the original mid ranges really are bad, mine are probably on the verge of foam rot also which will make it even worse...

These Dutch guy has got a lot of information on these ICE 200ASC amps on his website: http://www.wimdehaan.nl/printable/variousamps/icepowerclassd/

BTW: would it be a good idea to build the ICE amps in my RL7000's?  Maybe next to the bass reflex?  Would it influence the sound?  The crossovers are also built in the cabinet.

Kind regards
Joost

I used that site for part of my research and I actually submitted the missing B&O developers manual to him for inclusion on his site.

The 200 will be fine in your 7000 as it's tiny. All IcePower gear is designed to withstand back pressure hence all the white stuff all over the place.

I would now not recommend the 200 for the Pentas if volume is required. The boards stop at 100W @ 8ohm and wont give anything else whereas the Penta is good for 200W really. They've designed them so that they can't be overpowered beyond low distortion. Mine will be up for sale shortly.

I'm looking at 500's but the price is over £500 for two and they aren't meant to sound as good as the 200's. Oh, and they output beyong the Pentas capabilities so I could start destroying drivers.

I also looked at getting the ohms down to 4, which would be perfect for the 200 board, however the bass drivers are 26ohm each !!! and the treble is 8ohm. Unlikely to find replacements. If I could, I'd buy two more 200 AC boards for each side and have amps for each low-mid-high.

Bit of a nightmare with all these speaker units with high ohms.

Of to the B&O shop to buy a new top for the Penta....

Hi there,

I helped upgrade a friends' (non B&O) speakers with ICE amps a while back.  More as an experiment on A/B and D class amps.

After some initial finetuning we had to make sure that the amp has enough air circulation all around for best performance and in order to prevent switching into protective mode at higher volumes. something to think about when you integrate them into existing speakers. The RL cabinets are fairly cramp imo.

Kindest regards,

O.

I've decided to keep the 200's. With some music the volume is around the 150W mark, with others it's quieter. If I go with other ICePower models I loose the auto standby mode as it features only on this model. Also, the sound is truely bliss and I "hear" the 500 isn't quite so good.

Third generation IcePower is out now but cost 600Euro+.

To the previous poster, it wont be a problem because working with 8ohm reduces the amps capacity to half. It'll still run cool at full volume into 8 ohm.

Turbo:

Great job, I will be going class D also some day!

 

camshaft, do you have som more detaild specs on the midrange speakers in the Pentas? It mostly the sensitivity I am worried about.

I might have found som replacements from Peerless, but I need more info to know if I am close. They do not fit perfect mechanically but I do not really see a problem with that Unfortenatly they are 8ohms also but I guess I can figure out how to modify the filters to work properly. As I see it it should be impossible to fail since the original mid ranges really are bad, mine are probably on the verge of foam rot also which will make it even worse...

Hi Turbo.  I actually just found the page where the midranges were being sold and there are some basic specs, but the site doesn't include a frequency response plot.  You'll note on this version though the plastic basket frame is square shaped.  To fit a penta one would have to cut off (possibly with a lathe) the outer tabs.  It may not be obvious at first that this is the same speaker as in the penta, but a couple years ago someone was selling the same speaker on ebay, and the photograph of the back showed that it had the same sticker as on the back of the penta midranges.  Replace the * with an "s".  If I don't do that the forum filter catches it

http://www.part*-express.com//pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=289-084

I myself planned on eventually dropping in some peerless 3" drivers.  Are these the ones you were thinking of:

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_241_282&products_id=8305

You'll have to cut the tabs off these also.  As you said they're 8ohms though.  Each pair of 4 ohm midranges in the penta are connected in series though, so you could just try connecting these 8ohm ones in parallel.  Obviously the crossover was designed for the original midranges, but I have a feeling the huge step in quality of the peerless drivers would still help the sound.

Andrew post pics of your setup when you get a chance; I think we're all anxious to see it!

Austin

camshaft, strangely I found out that the same speakers from Peerless is the way to go! -same partnumber but I found them on a company in Sweden. I have found some great rewiews on them from some DIYers, they are resonable in price also and that is interesting when you need 8 of them.... -But do we rally need 8 of them? One idea I have is to only use 2/speaker , that way the impedance will be correct and the filters will not  know what hit them. If I use one of these for each mid range filter they will see the same load and work as if nothing has happend.

This could actually work really well if the frequency response and sensitivety is simular. Or the actually the response should have to be a bit higher on the new mid ranges to compensate for the less number of units. When studuing the caracteristics of the Peerless speakers, they have a fairly straight frequency reponse in a much bigger range then they wll be working in in the Pentas, that is really good if the filters in the Pentas go cracy with the new load. That is that there is no problem if these speakers are exposed to lower frequencys than the originals, the total frequency response from the Penta will however be bad although theese speakers have a higher quality sound in them self. I have built a lot of filters earlier, both passive as in he Pentas and active filters with OP-amps. This was however about 15 years ago so I have forgotten a lot about it. But it should be like driving a bicycle

I will order 8 of the Peerless elements and try it out. My first set up will be to replace all 8 of them and see how that works, probably not so good since the impededance will be wrong and the divide frequency will be altered by that, and the sensetivity will probably also differ, in one way or the other.

The mecanical differces s ot a big problem for me, if they are more than grinding out some material I will do the documentation and share it with everybody here.

Perhaps this is off topic and a big issue enough to start a new thread, help moderators!

I dont understand why you want to fix something that isn't broke. The midrange from my Pentas is exceptional, especially the imaging. Mine have had very little use, so perhaps your caps are shot or the driver coils are fried. As cheap as they may have been, they are very good.

On another note I've found the IcePower's need a "burning in" period like the Tripaths and the volume and accuracy has improved even further. The sound quality is now legendary, as I've never heard anything better them. It's the accuracy and taughtness of the sound that gets me hooked it really is amazing.

Also, and probably predictable, the 8000's which I listened to in the B&O shop sounded plain disgusting compared to my Pentas and 200ASC's.

great pic of the two passive Penta's, what are you using for the source, the computer and a sound card, or something else ?

ouverture:

great pic of the two passive Penta's, what are you using for the source, the computer and a sound card, or something else ?

The microphone, he sings to himself

Sorry, couldn't help it!  Great pic though snoopy.

snoopy:

I used that site for part of my research and I actually submitted the missing B&O developers manual to him for inclusion on his site.

I can't find the manual on the site.  Is there a way to acquire it? 

I've ordered my 200ASC's for build-in in the RL 7000's.  I'll keep you all posted. (but they also need refoaming, so this will take some time..)

Joost

PC has a HD sound card in it, Cambridge Audio Artic phono leads have been split and go in opposite directions to the Pentas. :)

##########

I found another seller of a few ICepower bits ...

(eBay Member: alfetta87)

- 2 x ICE250ASP, 135€ each
- 10x ICE250 which can be driven by a 250ASP, 72 € each
- 10x transformer + rectifier board withall necessary voltages + caps (3x6800µF), bought with a ICE250 total 110 € (ICE250 +  tranny + board)
- 1 x ICE500ASP, 155€
- 1 x ICE1000ASP, 185€
- 2 ICE500 which can be driven by a ICE500ASP, 95 € each

I sent him it but he's not said anything. Your icepower seller can supply you it if you used the same source that I did, or email me: contact *at* igaro *^dot^&* com

And I'll send 'em both over.

joostdeclercq, send me an email if you want the manual. Can I also ask where you've ordered the 200asc's from, as I'm wondering if I can get them any cheaper :). I too am looking at buying an RL140 as two surrounds then downmixing 5.1 straight to them and the Pentas.

-

Hi Andrew,

You've got PM.

I'm not that technical, but I was wondering if would not be a good thing to build a netcurrentfilter in front of the ASC200?  Just to cleanup thing a bit before the current enters the ASC200.

Joost

Replied with manuals :)

Dont waste your time IMHO with the netcurrentfilter. The ASC's are very plug-in-play. Couple of connections and that's it sorted. Try them and you'll see how spot on they are "out-the-box". Regards, Andrew

Andrew,

Great, thanks.

Postman with ASC's was at the door, but I wasn't home

Kind regards

Joost

Hi,

Amps arrived!

A few questions:

1. I'm tempted to place to amp close to the tweeter (nice symmetric in the speaker) in the RL7000.  Can the heavy magnet do any harm to the prestations of the amp?

2. The amps has the possibility to connect balanced audiosignal.  I think the audiosignal in powerlink isn't balanced.  But I believe the signal on the masterlink is.  Am I right?

3. The connections for the sound to the amp are +, - and GRND.  Powerlink has left, right and signal chassis.  So I believe I have to connect left (or right) to the + of the amp and signal chassis to - (which has to be shorted to GRND on the amp because there is no balanced signal).  Am I right?  I know this is a beginners question, but so I am :-)

Kind regards

Joost