Peter2:

B & O in Jersey likewise sell the Pioneer & Panasonic plasmas alongside the BV4's, and I agree with Razlaw that the BV4 picture is superior. With the BS3 and some Beolabs whats not to like?

 

Except the price of course :)

 

Firstly, the BV4 is calibrated from the factory.

I have the pioneer kuro calibrated ( that costs £250) and its a match in every way for my BV4- im sorry to say

I'm quite frankly curious why Pioneer is delivering their screens to customers without such a calibration - especially as it additionally only costs what you stated (which might include the margin of the one who does the calibration) - and thus give up on differentiating themselves perceiveably from their competitors, not to say matching them, as B&O can't be one of the serious competitors to Pioneer?

each installation is unique. you can only calibrate with given sources

Or by building in a self calibrating camera system to perform a calibration every 100 hours. But who would go to such lengths?

TripEnglish:

Or by building in a self calibrating camera system to perform a calibration every 100 hours. But who would go to such lengths?

I heard rumors that a small Danish company had gone to such lengths.  

TripEnglish:

Or by building in a self calibrating camera system to perform a calibration every 100 hours. But who would go to such lengths?

Your employers?

TripEnglish:

Or by building in a self calibrating camera system to perform a calibration every 100 hours. But who would go to such lengths?

 

Some  are getting carried away with B&O marketing nonsense and are comming up with so much rubbish on on this thread they begin to believe it themselves!

 

The purpose of this silly camera gimmick is to alter the colour spectrum so that as the panel ages the picture does not deteriorate.

This has nothing to do with set up calibration.- which is mainly source dependant. So in other words you can calibrate only truly effetively when you have connnected a PS3 for example. Of course with the BS3 that I have the PS3 doesnt function as it should anyway- which shows that B&O has it wrong again!

If B&O were using up to date panel technology there would be no need for the camera gimmick because the panel life is far greater in later variant panels.

I am amazed that some can make the comments they do with the software fiasco that is the BV7!!!! -Ill engineered from the start

Of course trip, this is not the first time some 'interesting' comments have come from you- do you recal-  'well if you really want to buy that Sony made in far east cr~~p  go ahead- but I will stick with my B&O !

Now your own store is selling products made there - or soon will be!

Carry on the good work for B&O- rather worryingly I think your views are typical of the management in Denmark- hence the reason they are in the state they are today!

No, actually I don't recall making that specific comment, though I do recall something about you're retirement from these sorts of arguments. I figured you were so dazzled by your Kuro that you'd forgotten about poor old Bang & Olufsen. How lucky we are to have you back. I look forward to future enlightenment. 

TripEnglish:

No, actually I don't recall making that specific comment, though I do recall something about you're retirement from these sorts of arguments. I figured you were so dazzled by your Kuro that you'd forgotten about poor old Bang & Olufsen. How lucky we are to have you back. I look forward to future enlightenment. 

 

In fact I did retire when some individuals just couldny see sense and maintained the BS3 suppoted hi def audio- I just had to come out of retirement when reading even more suspect material!

TripEnglish:

No, actually I don't recall making that specific comment, though I do recall something about you're retirement from these sorts of arguments. I figured you were so dazzled by your Kuro that you'd forgotten about poor old Bang & Olufsen. How lucky we are to have you back. I look forward to future enlightenment. 

That's a bit rich Trip - you retired from this forum all together in a blaze of shirt-hanging glory, didn't you!?

Of course, we're lucky to have you back too to bring the corporate view to the table ;)

All good fun, eh? 

Glad to have you back, though. I do enjoy the sparring! I'm actually about to start my own B&O problem thread. We might be on the same side in this one...

Did I retire? I know I was absent for a while, but that was to do with "the non-forum world" Good to be back though. Keep the knives sharp and all. 

TripEnglish:

Did I retire? I know I was absent for a while, but that was to do with "the non-forum world" Good to be back though. Keep the knives sharp and all. 

Yes - you threw the toys out on a thread similar to this one. Same characters involved. All good clean fun. 

Let's retire this thread and move to my new complaint thread! I'm anxious to finally be on the complaining end!

Christian:

Please correct me if I am wrong

1993: AV9000 = 4725£ for a monitor, video and center speaker. 28"

2008: AV9000 = 7900£ with an average consumer price increase of 3,5 % a year.

2008: BV7-40 = 8400£ (converted from DKK) for a monitor, DVD and center speaker. 40"

So 500£ bought you 12"... Not talking about the stereo speakers quality.

ok gentlemen i think most of us here on this thread owned b&o item or two or three i owned 3 items for a period spaded over 15 years do not have any now .my last purchase was bv7-32  the heart ruled the head big -big mistake for me i sold my 7-32 was nor impressed with the picture in fact  was inferior to warrant the b&o badge never recovered still have the money to buy another set but not convinced yet ,i am sorry b& o does not do it for me , still do not fancy anything -else but will make do for the interim with another brand and yes i can changed twice possibly three times for the price of b&o (must stress the price on its own a small issue incomparssion to what that money buys!!!

I'm with Jeff hear,  either you appreciate the company, its history and products (past, present and future), or you don't. Where as I used to be in a postion to stay up to date with B&O after having seven children my resource are limited, so I just thank God that the equipment I have has and continues to service my family very well. My children are growing up with the style and quality of B&O and know that when they get older and get jobs they will always know what they can get daddy. 

 Just enjoy the music, with B&O of course.

Dave

Dking63:

I'm with Jeff hear,  either you appreciate the company, its history and products (past, present and future), or you don't. Where as I used to be in a postion to stay up to date with B&O after having seven children my resource are limited, so I just thank God that the equipment I have has and continues to service my family very well. My children are growing up with the style and quality of B&O and know that when they get older and get jobs they will always know what they can get daddy. 

 Just enjoy the music, with B&O of course.

Dave

dave:

i assume you meant me! i hope, 'cuz i agree w/ your reply! i don't have (7) -god bless you! -but i do have (2) gals -and you are right! i still use 40+ year old pieces from my collection every day! the last thing i need (want) to do is equate everything about something that gives me pleasure (b&o) into facts and figures (i deal w/ enough speadsheets at work)! we could all sit here and argue our points all day long, but you know what -who cares -if what b&o does now causes you so much grief -well -life is short! buy it or don't! right now, i am enjoying natalie merchant! that is all that matters! i am happy and smiling!

to quote you: just enjoy!

and yes, back to having kids -i have a pair of 2400's reserved for them -and you know what -i think that i'll paint them pink!

This is quite the interesting thread ... I would be doing the company a tremendous disservice is I didn't chime in with my two cents.

The issue of "price" will probably never go away but I think now more than ever it has more to do with a pretty big fault in product development than anything else.  Unlike any other manufacturer (and I really can't stand making the comparison between B&O and the other guys) Bang & Olufsen lacks any true entry level solution for anything.  BeoSound 3 is not an entry level audio system ... it's a glorified clock radio.  BeoVision 7 is not an entry level Bang & Olufsen television ... it's an entry level video system.  The problem with this is not everyone is really looking for a full video system.  Word on the street it that the US Market is getting the snub on the 40" BeoVision 8 because it will compete with BeoVision 7 sales.  I disagree.  Many (actually most) of the BeoVision 7 sales I make are typically just the BeoVision 7 by itself.  $14,500 means a lot more to Americans than it did 12 months ago and when most customers that walk into my store looking for a 40" TV they genuinely cannot get over the price tag ... and for the most part after they hear how much it costs they don't care what it does.  All they see is a gorgeous TV priced 10 times more than what another 40" LCD costs.  If someone is looking for "just a TV" it's hard, if not impossible, to justify the price.  For me, it's a bit discouraging to hear people tell me how crazy we are to charge this much for a "TV" but perhaps it really just is the market segment that B&O is going after in the US.  Personally, I would much rather sell 10 40" BeoVision 8's a month at half the price of a BeoVision 7 than 2 BeoVision 7's.  The 32" BeoVision 8 has been our most popular set since it was launched in the US and I think it's largely in part to the price being "acceptable" for a Bang & Olufsen television, and more importantly there aren't a truckload of features that the client will never utilize in it's most common application.  

I'm one of Bang & Olufsen's biggest cheerleaders ... but some of the decisions we make as a company really make me scratch my head.  Bang & Olufsen certainly isn't for everyone ... but I think without any real entry level products in a way we might be damaging the future of our business.  We'll see what happens!  

Good Lord!

Lovely to see a dealer--one who actually identifies his store in his signature--come in and admit the need for change while still professing his love for, and loyalty to, the brand.   

Stopped in your store a few weeks ago actually when I was visiting--great store and a really helpful, friendly staff.

Anyway, a nice change.  Certain dealers wouldn't dare mention their stores because with the horrid attitude that lingers around these boards, they'd undoubtedly lose at least some slice of clientele, which in this economy, more than likely wouldn't be feasible, even if it may not make up the bulk of revenues.   

Hi Alex,

I am surpised that B&O has not given you and your collegues a background presentation on their demographic marketing approach. This is the origin of the pricing strategy. It is not clear how you could successfully market the products without this knowledge so shame on B&O. I would expect that they will want all associates to understand the pricing rationale.

Affineur:

Hi Alex,

I am surpised that B&O has not given you and your collegues a background presentation on their demographic marketing approach. This is the origin of the pricing strategy. It is not clear how you could successfully market the products without this knowledge so shame on B&O. I would expect that they will want all associates to understand the pricing rationale.

Affineur, Alex talked about what the average customer says when it hears the price of a 40" TV.

I think he understands very well the B&O pricing rationale, but this is not the case for many potential customers.

In my case, I love B&O products, I owned several systems but I do not understand the pricing of B&O TVs even if I can put the money on the table.

 B&O is going to be severely affected by the current crisis and RIGHT NOW the question is "how the dealer network will survive".

I think many people here are in a love affair with B&O, that's normal. But let's talk about concret things, such as revenus and net income of B&O and dealers.

You can argue on the quality of images and aluminium, if nobody buys the products it remains just a virtual discussion in a forum . Like the captain of the titanic saying "what a beautiful Boat", yes but it's sinking. 

Try to listen to what the average customers say , listen to your customers, listen to the dealers and try to find a way to survive instead of saying, "you are silly and poor people because you buy a Panasonic with plastic enclosures, "or "You do not understand the B&O way of life".

Look at what other successfull luxury brands do. 

Vuiton is a luxury Brand and it sells thousands of entry products  at understandable premium prices (with very high margins), keeping reachable for the average people  to buy them.

And Vuiton has items at very high cost wich maintain the brand's luxury image and enable them to get high margins on entry products.

But Vuiton makes its margins on entry products.

B&O does not have an entry product line where they can get high margins and sell to the mass. 

This is the problem guys.

 

 

Is it a coincidence that a lot of the "don't change anything, our TV range is the best and there isn't a real alternative" supporters on this thread seem to be from the US? Is the market landscape that different there? Maybe the stores there aren't closing at an alarming rate, or B&O US's business report looks significantly different to Europe's.

Perhaps the customers enjoy more their egos (and wallets) massaged by being told how "exclusive" they are.

I find being dismissive of someones opinion of differences, especially someone who owns a B&O panel and it's lower cost, (cheap, plastic) alternative, disturbing.

I do of course realise that all I've said is futile

 

Ask GM. There's another company whose product development was left to bean counters and store traffic counters, rather than engineers and designers with a specific goal. Until the very end, GM exec's kept insisting that their product was top notch, though they had to throw money after people to get them to buy it.

Puncher:

Is it a coincidence that a lot of the "don't change anything, our TV range is the best and there isn't a real alternative" supporters on this thread seem to be from the US? Is the market landscape that different there? Maybe the stores there aren't closing at an alarming rate, or B&O US's business report looks significantly different to Europe's.

Perhaps the customers enjoy more their egos (and wallets) massaged by being told how "exclusive" they are.

I find being dismissive of someones opinion of differences, especially someone who owns a B&O panel and it's lower cost, (cheap, plastic) alternative, disturbing.

I do of course realise that all I've said is futile

 

Quite the contrary, as I discussed earlier in this thread, the B&O stores are mostly empty.  I think the main reason is that we have an array of choices for an AV installation oftentimes at less money.  All the main European, American, and Asian brands are here and there are plenty of people who can design a system for any budget.  When you enter a B&O store, the choices are limited and the prices high.

Yes of course there is a certain amount of exclusivity to B&O products mostly because the brand is not well known in the USA.  B&O only advertises in relatively obscure designer magazines.  There are rarely ads for B&O in AV magazines.

As for myself I don't care about TV too much.  I have a small TV in a side bedroom for occasional use.  I am more interested in the music products such as the speakers and players.  I am planning on acquiring a pair of Beolab 5s in the spring. I don't think of the Beolab 5s as a  down market product.  I am not buying Beolab 5s because most people don't have them but I am buying them for me.  I love B&O products and got my first system about 25 years ago.

I think people here are ready for change but are hesitating because nobody knows what the change is other than the Beosound 5.  Beosound 5 won't be here until March.  It remains to be seen how it will be received.

Anybody who empties their wallet for exclusivity gets an empty wallet and nothing more.