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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 12-13-2008 11:14 AM by Russ. 179 replies.
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  • 12-12-2008 9:38 AM In reply to

    • Russ
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    Re: The B&O problem?

    Razlaw:
    Puncher:

    Razlaw:
    Just got a new home theater magazine. In it is an article on the latest and greates Panasonic 65inch plasma. Price $9995.00  Thus a BV4 65 inch is only 35% more.  

    Your apples too seem very orange-like!

    65" Panasonic D10 professional panel (web price) £4500 - £5000, BV4 65" (panel only) £11500.

    We'll see how much the BV4 sells for when it uses the panel you quote.

    I can't see why you refuse to acknowledge that the price differentails people speak of are real. I'm happy that you're happy to pay the extra and you see real value in doing so. Others may agree, some not - it's their choice.

    I refuse to acknowledge the price differentials as they do not exist. Even your price is just under 1/2 the price of B and O. Many claim the multiple is 5 times. Further it has been posted prices of B and O should be double, as in the days of the Avant. Again, even your figures show it is only about double now.

    Panasonic TH-65VX100U  65 inch panel is $9995. BV4 65 inch is $13500, only a 35% premium.

     

    May I also add that I question wether it is fair to compare B&O's retail price to the 'web price' of any other brand?  Certainly one may argue that getting the best price possible is part of the game...but is it really, particularly for B&O's target client?  Is their no value in the shops, sales force, and technical support?  Those are the first things one gives up when chasing that 'lowest price'.  Not to mention our prior discussions here concerning companies unable to sustain reasonable profits....

    I guess what I'm asking (in a way) is this:  Is B&O's target client the sort to ask himself (or herself): "Why should I pay $60USD for a supposedly good bottle of Whiskey when I can drive out to the edge of town, put $20 on a tree stump, drive down the lane, come back and pick up a jar of whatever they leave for me?  After all, what could go wrong?" 

     

     

    We kid because we love.

     

    Bang & Olufsen Tysons Galleria

    McLean, VA USA

  • 12-12-2008 9:53 AM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: The B&O problem?

    RussR:
    Razlaw:
    Puncher:

    Razlaw:
    Just got a new home theater magazine. In it is an article on the latest and greates Panasonic 65inch plasma. Price $9995.00  Thus a BV4 65 inch is only 35% more.  

    Your apples too seem very orange-like!

    65" Panasonic D10 professional panel (web price) £4500 - £5000, BV4 65" (panel only) £11500.

    We'll see how much the BV4 sells for when it uses the panel you quote.

    I can't see why you refuse to acknowledge that the price differentails people speak of are real. I'm happy that you're happy to pay the extra and you see real value in doing so. Others may agree, some not - it's their choice.

    I refuse to acknowledge the price differentials as they do not exist. Even your price is just under 1/2 the price of B and O. Many claim the multiple is 5 times. Further it has been posted prices of B and O should be double, as in the days of the Avant. Again, even your figures show it is only about double now.

    Panasonic TH-65VX100U  65 inch panel is $9995. BV4 65 inch is $13500, only a 35% premium.

     

    May I also add that I question wether it is fair to compare B&O's retail price to the 'web price' of any other brand?  Certainly one may argue that getting the best price possible is part of the game...but is it really, particularly for B&O's target client?  Is their no value in the shops, sales force, and technical support?  Those are the first things one gives up when chasing that 'lowest price'.  Not to mention our prior discussions here concerning companies unable to sustain reasonable profits....

    I guess what I'm asking (in a way) is this:  Is B&O's target client the sort to ask himself (or herself): "Why should I pay $60USD for a supposedly good bottle of Whiskey when I can drive out to the edge of town, put $20 on a tree stump, drive down the lane, come back and pick up a jar of whatever they leave for me?  After all, what could go wrong?" 

    You have assumed that the $60 bottle tastes better than the $20 bottle - what if it doesn't??

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 12-12-2008 10:34 AM In reply to

    Re: The B&O problem?

    Puncher, I get what you're saying, but only about 1 single aspect of a complex product. The premise of your argument that we will never accept is that a television is ONLY its picture. The current video landscape is likely the most complex operating experience in the entire history of AV. I don't think many of us would argue that point. Customers are bewildered by the information they need to absorb to make intelligent decisions and it's not even expected anymore that every member of a household be able to operate the television and stereo.  

    At a time when we as a buying public should be "voting with our wallets" and forcing manufacturers to simplify their offerings and improve quality and operability, we're simply saying, "I don't care what corners you cut. I don't care how soon I'll have to throw it away. JUST MAKE IT CHEAPER!"

    I'd be perfectly willing to look at another video product if I were to find one that wasn't so negligently designed as to insult anyone who would spend money on it. It seems that every other television on the planet is designed as a monitor with source switching. That's it. And that's completely inadequate to meet the needs of today's video environment.

    Picture settings have to be fluid to accommodate radically different source qualities. I have clients watching VHS and Blu-Ray on the same screen. Do you really think that both peripherals demand the same type of optimization from the panel? 

    There are so many types of sources that require discreet connectivity and control that just offering plugs to fit their cables into doesn't go far enough. Ideas like HDMI CEC really will only ever work within a single brand (and even that has barely materialized) unless manufacturers were to adopt some type of control convention. Forget that, right? So there has to be some easily programmable intelligence at work and a universal remote simply doesn't do the job. Even the best ones I've seen, hell even the Crestron remotes I've seen, are never as easy as the wand. I think that is why some will resist moving away from the Beo 4 for as long as possible. It's simple, and thanks to the PUC it talks to, it's smarter than most Crestron panels.

    There also has to be some allowance for multi channel sound. Most prime time television programs, as well as nearly every DVD on the market, is available in multi channel to experience the full effect of the material. Leaving it to another box, even one by the same brand is either lazy or irresponsible depending on how you look at it. What chef would lovingly prepare the protein and hand it off to a dishwasher, or a diner for that matter, to season, sauce, garnish, and plate? If a product requires a feature, INTEGRATE IT! AV Recievers, to look at them, would have you think that the designer had never seen the television it was going to plug into. Does it really need more than a power button? Some of the damn things have color screens on them! Isn't the big one on the wall enough?

    And what about materials? As someone who has carefully decorated their home (right down the the Boffi fire extinguisher under the sink), why should one of my most important appliances look and feel disposable? The come with thin shells and frames that creak at the slightest touch and have tolerance gaps you'd find on a Chevy Malibu. Their remotes look like they could be sold "by the bag" and weigh nothing in your hand. You can tell that no one gave any thought to the haptic quality of the buttons let along the layout! So why would someone want one of these monstrosities on their living room when they've just spent $8,500 on a Sub Zero refrigerator? It boggles the mind what people are willing to accept. 

    That's without even getting into basic automation, distribution, and other features that are moving from the exotic to the every-day. 

    Quite plainly the only company considering the AV experience holistically is Bang & Olufsen. Simply selling all the components with your badge on them doesn't count! So when some other company, be it Pioneer, Sony, or whomever, decide to get their act together and pay the customer some respect I'll give them an honest look. Until then, I'll refuse to mistake low prices for respect.  

     

     

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 12-12-2008 10:35 AM In reply to

    • Russ
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    Re: The B&O problem?

    Haven't assumed anything of the sort, my imaginary buyer asks "supposedly good bottle".  

    What I am supposing is that if I go to the legal shop, I am in a licensed shop, buying a licensed product...even if I skip past the aged single malts, the aged single barrels, the Jack Daniels, even the Evan Williams, and settle for the Fighting Gamecock (yes there is such a thing).  I'm in a shop, dealing with a person...I have a resource if I have questions (Is this bottle better?), I have a recourse if I have problems, and if the product kills me even when used as directed or advised, there will be some government agency there to avenge me.  :-)  All these things cost money, and add to what I pay at the shop.

    My thesis is that we ought to be comparing MSRP's, not 'web/stump' prices, as some manufacturers won't honor their warranty unless purchased through an authorized dealer, for instance.  Fujitsu was famous for that.

    We kid because we love.

     

    Bang & Olufsen Tysons Galleria

    McLean, VA USA

  • 12-12-2008 10:37 AM In reply to

    Re: The B&O problem?

    Russ, I don't know if you just coined the term, but I'm going to start referring to online prices as "stump" prices. 

    (And don't forget to have me tell you why they call CT the "Nutmeg" state.) 

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 12-12-2008 11:02 AM In reply to

    Re: The B&O problem?

    Mmmm - you like these kind of threads, don't you Trip? You should hang out in the Vintage forum or The Workbench - we could use some lengthy posts in there to pad it out.

    I think some of us could buy into what you're saying about quality of materials etc. if only we didn't know that the panels were sourced from other manufacturers that use these in their own products, that are themselves sold at a much lower price. Accepting that for discerning purchasers there's more to a TV than picture alone (I find this hard to buy, but I'll go along with you), then there's a whopping premium to pay for that wonderfully extruded aluminium frame encasing someone else's panel.

    Perhaps the whiskey analogy should have involved leaving an empty bottle from the $60 whiskey, plus $60 on the tree stump, hoping for it to be filled with the $20 stuff in return?

    President, Beomaster 8000 Appreciation Society

  • 12-12-2008 11:08 AM In reply to

    Re: The B&O problem?

    j0hnbarker:
    there's a whopping premium to pay for that wonderfully extruded aluminium frame encasing someone else's panel.

    That's not the only difference though - the panels are calibrated (which is expensive to get someone to come and do properly - around £300-£600), and they have other electronics (auto-contrast, brightness and automatic colour management) that improve the picture further.

  • 12-12-2008 11:13 AM In reply to

    Re: The B&O problem?

    csmager:

    j0hnbarker:
    there's a whopping premium to pay for that wonderfully extruded aluminium frame encasing someone else's panel.

    That's not the only difference though - the panels are calibrated (which is expensive to get someone to come and do properly - around £300-£600), and they have other electronics (auto-contrast, brightness and automatic colour management) that improve the picture further.

    Do you work for B&O?

    President, Beomaster 8000 Appreciation Society

  • 12-12-2008 11:18 AM In reply to

    • Christian
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    Re: The B&O problem?

    I agree, that you can use a Panasonic panel with BS3, and the only thing missing would be the anti reflex coating, automatic colour management and the alu frame.

    The BV4-50 screen-only price is 5850£ or about twice the price of a comparable panel. Would I pay 3000£ for ACM, anti reflex and alu frame? Yes. I am sure that I would be much more happy looking at the B&O design, and for me that is enough. Saving (only) 3000£ on such an investment is to me senseless, if I know that I wouldn't like to look at the tv when it is off.

    I am with Trip on this one. (And I like reading your long posts Smile)

    Living room: BV7-40 mkIV + V8000, BL5, BL3, BM1 and BS9000. Bedroom: MX3000 and BL4500 on MCL2-AV. Around: PentaIII, CX100 and MCX35 on ML/MCL + MCL2-A, BeoPort and BL4 on ML, BS3300 + M75 as stand alone, BC6000 + BC600 and BT1100, LC1, LC2, Beo4, Beo5 and BL1000, BS2 and A8, EarSet2, Apron, Coffee mugs, Enamel Bagdes, Bath towel, Keyring, Books, Lots of miniature and the Bottle opener. Office: BC2300 + BL2500 and BS3. Summer house: BS Century.

    Addicted? Oh no.... ;)

  • 12-12-2008 11:24 AM In reply to

    • saf
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    Re: The B&O problem?

    (Well – passionately - said TripEnglish)

     

    I sometimes wonder how many people among those complaining about B&O prices have also habit of buying Loius Vuittons of this world and many other über-over-priced branded essentials for life (somewhat obscene of B&O to pair their brand with ‘haute couture’, if you ask me – or was it in those days everything seemed to show a double digit growth …)

     

    If you look at certain basic facts you’ll see that B&O’s bottom line never indicated the company was raking in astronomical profits (and I don’t think they ‘hide’ them): Maybe they just try to do their best to produce what they believe in. If this – at the prices asked – is not good enough for the buyers, B&O (ie their concept) is out of business. Simple as that, so to speak.

     

    Now, compare this to the profits of the ‘tailors’ mentioned above (but there are many more examples …) – they are enough to keep a small army of Swiss servants busy while serving them (in their private hill chalets) with the white gloves on – literally. Maybe, and sometimes sadly, consumers are just always going to get what they want … or deserve.

  • 12-12-2008 11:29 AM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: The B&O problem?

    Trip and Russ,

    I have no issues with your views and can see your point too - all I have attempted to do was, when challenged, to show to some that you can get award winning, bang up to date, TV's at the differentials mentioned. The point has been discussed very many times. I understand they are plastic, I know they aren't for everybody and I know they won't have masterlink/powerlink etc.

    I am not advocating everyone rush out and buy them.

    As I have said repeatedly, everyone has their own values and makes their own choices.

     

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 12-12-2008 11:34 AM In reply to

    Re: The B&O problem?

    After 8 years on the inside, I can honestly say that I've never met anyone at any level who was in it for the money. We all share a passion for what our company is doing and that has carried us through nearly 9 decades. If we were in it to make money, we'd be somewhere else, and most of us in other industries entirely. 

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 12-12-2008 11:48 AM In reply to

    Re: The B&O problem?

    Chrisreunion:

    I think that if we talk about prices, we should compare B&O prices to ...B&O prices!

    What bothers me with the present range is that:

    - 10 years ago you could get an MX 4000 for EUR 1,500, this was the entry price for B&O TVs, now you have to pay at least twice as much for entry level products (BeoCenter 6-23 or BeoVision 8-26)

    - 10 years ago the BeoLab 8000 was costing EUR 2,800 , now it is priced at EUR 4,000, which was the price of BeoLab Pentas if you remember..

    - 10 years ago the BeoSound Ouverture (BeoCenter + BeoLab 2500) was sold at EUR 3,000, now the entry level BeoSound (BS4+BL4) is costing exactly the same price. The BeoSound 3200 alone costs the same price as the complete BeoSystem from the 90's...

     I've chosen 1 TV, 1 pair of BeoLabs and 1 audio system to show that all prices have increased, but neither quality nor performance.

    As far as I can remember, in France the B&O prices for the same product/reference never increased each year in the 90's, why does it have to be any different in the 2000's??

    Looking at it in a slightly different way, I have long kept a price comparison of B&O equipment (as this topic is as regular as the cable debate). Taking the introduction price of each B&O component for the year it was released and inflated it according to the UK RPI official statistics. (this overcomes issues of the Euro, exchange rates etc…) we get the following prices in 2008 money…

     

     

    Overture/BL2500                2,800

    BS4 / BL4                         2,700

                                                   

    MX4000                            1,500

    BV6-23                             2,800

                                                   

    BL8000                             2,700

    Penta 3                             3,180

    BL3                                  2,100

                                                   

    BV8-32                             2,700

    LX2800                             2,100

                                                   

    BV7-40                             9,000

    AV9000                           11,100

                                                   

    BL1                                  5,200

    BL9                                  5,200

                                                   

    BSy8000                           5,300

    BS5500                             3,900

    BS5                                  3,700

                                                   

    BL7000                                930

    MCL5500                             400

    Beo5                                   420

     

     

    As can be seen, with the exception of the Bv6-23, most of yesterdays products are similarly priced to today’s contemporary equipment. There is also some evidence that some of yester-years equipment was actually more expensive (in inflationary terms) than today’s equipment:-

     

     

    10%

  • 12-12-2008 11:57 AM In reply to

    Re: The B&O problem?

    Mr10Percent:
    Chrisreunion:

    I think that if we talk about prices, we should compare B&O prices to ...B&O prices!

    What bothers me with the present range is that:

    - 10 years ago you could get an MX 4000 for EUR 1,500, this was the entry price for B&O TVs, now you have to pay at least twice as much for entry level products (BeoCenter 6-23 or BeoVision 8-26)

    - 10 years ago the BeoLab 8000 was costing EUR 2,800 , now it is priced at EUR 4,000, which was the price of BeoLab Pentas if you remember..

    - 10 years ago the BeoSound Ouverture (BeoCenter + BeoLab 2500) was sold at EUR 3,000, now the entry level BeoSound (BS4+BL4) is costing exactly the same price. The BeoSound 3200 alone costs the same price as the complete BeoSystem from the 90's...

     I've chosen 1 TV, 1 pair of BeoLabs and 1 audio system to show that all prices have increased, but neither quality nor performance.

    As far as I can remember, in France the B&O prices for the same product/reference never increased each year in the 90's, why does it have to be any different in the 2000's??

    Looking at it in a slightly different way, I have long kept a price comparison of B&O equipment (as this topic is as regular as the cable debate). Taking the introduction price of each B&O component for the year it was released and inflated it according to the UK RPI official statistics. (this overcomes issues of the Euro, exchange rates etc…) we get the following prices in 2008 money…

    Overture/BL2500                2,800

    BS4 / BL4                         2,700

                                                   

    MX4000                            1,500

    BV6-23                             2,800

                                                   

    BL8000                             2,700

    Penta 3                             3,180

    BL3                                  2,100

                                                   

    BV8-32                             2,700

    LX2800                             2,100

                                                   

    BV7-40                             9,000

    AV9000                           11,100

                                                   

    BL1                                  5,200

    BL9                                  5,200

                                                   

    BSy8000                           5,300

    BS5500                             3,900

    BS5                                  3,700

                                                   

    BL7000                                930

    MCL5500                             400

    Beo5                                   420

    As can be seen, with the exception of the Bv6-23, most of yesterdays products are similarly priced to today’s contemporary equipment. There is also some evidence that some of yester-years equipment was actually more expensive (in inflationary terms) than today’s equipment:-

    10%

    We're talking TVs here in particular, so I'm not sure the other comparisons are directly relevant, though they are interesting. Don't forget you got a lot of product for your money with the AV9000 back in the day, not just the TV alone. It really was the core of a complete home entertainment system before the genre had been invented, and I'm not sure you could say the same of the BV7-40.

    President, Beomaster 8000 Appreciation Society

  • 12-12-2008 12:01 PM In reply to

    Re: The B&O problem?

    Puncher, what awards?

    Most Stickers Applied?

    Brightest Blue Light?

    Most Button Sizes On a Single Remote?

    Most Redundant Operations in a Single System?

    Attractive From The Fewest Angles?

    I'm afraid that while I see your point, none of the alternatives discussed here have any relevance to what we do. If Loewe were everything it should be then we might have some competition on our hands and I'd welcome those discussions, but I'm sick and tired of sitting around the Aston Martin dealership fending off Nissan comparisons.

    I get it! They're both televisions! You can see a picture on them when you turn them on! That's it! After that there is the other 90% where they differ to great degrees. If you never have to actually purchase a Sony from a store, never have to move close enough to it to touch it, never have to connect it, never have to operate it, then YES, the B&O and Sony seem mighty similar! But to try and reduce a complex product or system to a single component doesn't serve any intellectual purpose. Does it really need to be pointed out that other televisions exist?

    My issue as a fan and a retailer is that I'm charged with aiding my clients in making good decisions and that requires them to be able to ask good questions based on sound information. Making it appear that there is no significant difference between a BeoVision and a Sony, Samsung, or Pioneer TV is not helpful to people without enough experience to know better.

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 12-12-2008 12:04 PM In reply to

    Re: The B&O problem?

    What!? John! Are you serious about the AV9000 / BV7 comparison!? You could say the EXACT SAME THING! Please!

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 12-12-2008 12:12 PM In reply to

    Re: The B&O problem?

    TripEnglish:
    What!? John! Are you serious about the AV9000 / BV7 comparison!? You could say the EXACT SAME THING! Please!

    Yes I am, from a price comparison point of view, Trip.

    Just remind me how many speakers £11k bought you back in the 1990s with the AV9000?

    How many speakers come as standard with the BV7-40 in 2008?

    President, Beomaster 8000 Appreciation Society

  • 12-12-2008 12:23 PM In reply to

    Re: The B&O problem?

    Adjusting for inflation, that £11k in the 90s could probably buy you nearer £20k today.
  • 12-12-2008 12:27 PM In reply to

    Re: The B&O problem?

    Would you like me to discuss the simple number of speakers or the actual quality of those speakers? Numerically you got more with the AV9000. Today you get qualitatively more with the BeoVision 7 & BeoLab 7-2.

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 12-12-2008 1:03 PM In reply to

    • Christian
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    Re: The B&O problem?

    Please correct me if I am wrong Smile

    1993: AV9000 = 4725£ for a monitor, video and center speaker. 28"

    2008: AV9000 = 7900£ with an average consumer price increase of 3,5 % a year.

    2008: BV7-40 = 8400£ (converted from DKK) for a monitor, DVD and center speaker. 40"

    So 500£ bought you 12"... Not talking about the stereo speakers quality.

    Living room: BV7-40 mkIV + V8000, BL5, BL3, BM1 and BS9000. Bedroom: MX3000 and BL4500 on MCL2-AV. Around: PentaIII, CX100 and MCX35 on ML/MCL + MCL2-A, BeoPort and BL4 on ML, BS3300 + M75 as stand alone, BC6000 + BC600 and BT1100, LC1, LC2, Beo4, Beo5 and BL1000, BS2 and A8, EarSet2, Apron, Coffee mugs, Enamel Bagdes, Bath towel, Keyring, Books, Lots of miniature and the Bottle opener. Office: BC2300 + BL2500 and BS3. Summer house: BS Century.

    Addicted? Oh no.... ;)

  • 12-12-2008 1:36 PM In reply to

    • Russ
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    Re: The B&O problem?

    j0hnbarker:

    I think some of us could buy into what you're saying about quality of materials etc. if only we didn't know that the panels were sourced from other manufacturers that use these in their own products, that are themselves sold at a much lower price....

    Perhaps the whiskey analogy should have involved leaving an empty bottle from the $60 whiskey, plus $60 on the tree stump, hoping for it to be filled with the $20 stuff in return?

    Hi John,

    Second point first:  my Whiskey analogy was only meant to reinforce the idea that comparing full-service prices with web-based discount prices was somewhat unfair.  With regard to quality of product, I think we have all heard enough horror stories (here and elsewhere) to remind us that one assumes a certain risk when making those purchases, and comparing the price of a BV-4 purchased from a dealer, to the price offered by some 14 year-old pushing dodgy boxes out of his mum's basement, isn't really honest.  Lets agree to compare MSRP's here until there's a  discount B&O outlet on-line which we all trust.

    Your first point brings us back to another argument which often springs up here: the 'true believer' point is that B&O pays a premium to its OEM suppliers for 'prime cut' panels which meet very strict performance and QC goals.  Wether, you agree that B&O have (or ever had) their own people in the Asian facilities to hand-pick their panels...or agree with others like 355f that B&O have simply laid out their quite stringent requirements...there are differences from panel to panel, which can be measured, and more importantly, observed.

    Doubt if you will, but ask yourself this...if all panels are identical (even within a given series), why are calibration services even offered?   

     

    We kid because we love.

     

    Bang & Olufsen Tysons Galleria

    McLean, VA USA

  • 12-12-2008 1:49 PM In reply to

    • Russ
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    Re: The B&O problem?

    Christian:

    Please correct me if I am wrong Smile

    1993: AV9000 = 4725£ for a monitor, video and center speaker. 28"

    2008: AV9000 = 7900£ with an average consumer price increase of 3,5 % a year.

    2008: BV7-40 = 8400£ (converted from DKK) for a monitor, DVD and center speaker. 40"

    So 500£ bought you 12"... Not talking about the stereo speakers quality.

     

    Thanks for the research Christian!  And don't forget the 7.2 audio and the HDMI connections B&O thoughtlessly left off of the AV-9000. 

    We kid because we love.

     

    Bang & Olufsen Tysons Galleria

    McLean, VA USA

  • 12-12-2008 1:57 PM In reply to

    Re: The B&O problem?

    this is not in reply to any single poster, but just in general...

    all these numbers and apple/orange comparos make my head spin!

    i remember when you simply bought b&o because you fell in love with it <period>

    anyone else?

    • B&o bottle opener
  • 12-12-2008 2:06 PM In reply to

    • Christian
    • Top 100 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • Copenhagen, Denmark
    • Posts 626
    • Bronze Member

    Re: The B&O problem?

    burantek:

    this is not in reply to any single poster, but just in general...

    all these numbers and apple/orange comparos make my head spin!

    i remember when you simply bought b&o because you fell in love with it <period>

    anyone else?

    I still fall in love with most (if not all) new pieces, but I think some doesn't anymore, and they try to explain why. I just commenting on numbers because I am an economist...

    Living room: BV7-40 mkIV + V8000, BL5, BL3, BM1 and BS9000. Bedroom: MX3000 and BL4500 on MCL2-AV. Around: PentaIII, CX100 and MCX35 on ML/MCL + MCL2-A, BeoPort and BL4 on ML, BS3300 + M75 as stand alone, BC6000 + BC600 and BT1100, LC1, LC2, Beo4, Beo5 and BL1000, BS2 and A8, EarSet2, Apron, Coffee mugs, Enamel Bagdes, Bath towel, Keyring, Books, Lots of miniature and the Bottle opener. Office: BC2300 + BL2500 and BS3. Summer house: BS Century.

    Addicted? Oh no.... ;)

  • 12-12-2008 2:10 PM In reply to

    Re: The B&O problem?

    RussR:
    Christian:

    Please correct me if I am wrong Smile

    1993: AV9000 = 4725£ for a monitor, video and center speaker. 28"

    2008: AV9000 = 7900£ with an average consumer price increase of 3,5 % a year.

    2008: BV7-40 = 8400£ (converted from DKK) for a monitor, DVD and center speaker. 40"

    So 500£ bought you 12"... Not talking about the stereo speakers quality.

     

    Thanks for the research Christian!  And don't forget the 7.2 audio and the HDMI connections B&O thoughtlessly left off of the AV-9000. 

    Please can we deal in £, as this was the currency 10% used. The £11k quoted will have included two Beolab 8000s, two 6000s, the center speaker and MCP. That's only £2k shy of the BV7-40, which includes one speaker. In their day, the Beolab 8000 and 6000s were good speakers (they're long in the tooth now), so let's not compare apples with oranges on the speaker front. Clearly the 7.2 is going to be better, otherwise what would B&O have been doing in an R&D sense over the past decade in terms of speakers? All I'm trying to get across is that based on 10%'s figures, I think you got more for your money in a home theatre sense with the AV9000 back in 199x that you do with a BV7-40 in 2008.

    That's my opinion - is that ok guys, or do you want to shout me down again by latching on to figures quoted in Euros that back up your argument? I don't expect Trip to be impartial given that he's a dealer, but surely I can have space on here to express some dissatisfaction with B&O's pricing policy, without agents of the company coming on to tell me why I'm completely wrong - what else would you say after all?

    President, Beomaster 8000 Appreciation Society

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