in Search
Untitled Page

ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
READ ONLY FORUM

This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 02-01-2009 3:11 AM by Piaf. 25 replies.
Page 1 of 2 (26 items) 1 2 Next >
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • 11-02-2008 8:25 PM

    • 9 LEE
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-14-2007
    • Moderator - UK
    • Posts 5,223
    • Founder

    USA & Used B&O Market

    Well guys, i have been following ebay USA for a few years now - and it really seems that the market for used B&O has crashed, burned and the ashes have blown away!!

    What's the general feeling in the North American market? Even though there's a reported recession here in the UK, the ebay market and indeed my own market selling pre-owned B&O is going just as briskly as ever.  Obviously, i sell little or no B&O to the states due to voltage differences as well as shipping costs - but i do take an active interest in the US/North American market and would love to know what the mindset towards used B&O and indeed B&O in general is.. 

    Lee

    Smile 

    BeoWorld - Everything Bang & Olufsen

  • 11-02-2008 9:09 PM In reply to

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    I would not say it crashed and burned. It is a little less volume on Ebay since about a year, however prices for BL6000 or BC2 if one shows up haven't changed much in the last 2 or 3 years I would say.

    Of coure there is product that is very hard to sell, i.e. BV5 due to shipping complexity or BS2.

    Not sure why it does not take off here, the brand is known not just for their presence in the Apple Stores. With the BV7 and BV8 they have products now.  It could be, that people are less design conscious here. I like modern furniture and had a hard time finding stores that carry it outside NYC until design within reach came along.

     

    This one is for Trip English I guess ..... 

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 11-03-2008 9:56 AM In reply to

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    My sister lives in the US and I have noticed on my visits there that the Average American consumer is very, very conservative. 

    All the upper middle class neighbourhoods she has lived in and surrounds them, in both LA and now Chicago are both filled with classically styled homes, and it is all very pretty and picturesque, in a leave it to beaver sort of way. You see almost no modern homes unless you go into certain neighbourhoods such as the Hollywood hills in LA and the Chicago inner suburbs. Then you look to the middle market brands that are popular, for home its Pottery Barn and Crate and Barrel , fashion Ralph Lauren, JC Crew, and Bannana Republic etc. This all fits this very preppy, relaxed, classic and very conservative style.

    It always surprises me when I watch things on entertainment TV and I see rock / pop / movie stars homes, they outwardly appear very hip, fashionable and you would expect that they would live in some incredible loft style, modernist home / apartment. Instead you get this classic manor!

    So generally I would say the appreciation of great modernist design and therefore B&O would be perhaps somewhat limited. 

     

  • 11-03-2008 9:56 AM In reply to

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    Nobody is buying anything here just as in the EU.  Circuit City which is a large electronics retailer announced today the closing of 135 stores nationwide.  The only stores with crowds are the Apple stores.

    Used B&O on Ebay can be tricky because many of the sellers are not B&O owners.  They are selling used B&O from what we call estate sales.  Estate sales are conducted due to a house being seized by a bank because of a mortgage default or because the home owner is deceased. These sellers usually under estimate the condition of the item.  However sometimes one can find the mint rare item at a good price.  I recently purchased a Beocenter 9500 in mint condition.

    B&O is largely unknown in most of the country except in the larger coastal cities like New York and Los Angeles.  There are several US Beoworlders in this forum who live far from a B&O store.

    I think the recession is worldwide. 

    Beosound 5 BL9 BC2 BL8000 Beovision 7 BL6002  BL11 

     

  • 11-03-2008 12:52 PM In reply to

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    Lee,

    The US is a diffcult market for 2nd hand B&O, it's out there but it is hard to find.  I am constantly searching E-Bay and the local market.  I am also fortunate enough to have a top notch B&O store in my City, and they will, on occassion, mention a possible client that is selling some of their B&O, but it never materializes.  I'm that way too, once I have some B&O products in my possession, it's hard for me to get rid of it.

    The others comments regarding contemporary design are also very true.  We have a traditional style home, but have contemporary furnishing and art work.  Our neighbors are all traditional and pretty much the same on the outside and inside.

    My wife had very traditional tastes when we met and she really embraced my contemporary tastes has enjoyed the change and is proud of being different. 

  • 11-03-2008 5:13 PM In reply to

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    Hi,

    In addition to the above, buying 2nd hand items seems to be frowned upon by both dealers and B&O America.  I recently purchased a 1-year old set of Beolab 5 speakers and was not able to purchase a set of shipping boxes from my dealer.  They initially quoted me $160 for 2 boxes but when I called two days later to ask for a delivery date they had canceled my order without telling me (their policy is that they do not sell packaging material to second owners).  Eventually the seller of the pair of speakers bought them on my behalf but only one box was delivered two weeks later at a final charge of $180.  The seller (or I) never received the second box. 

    I called B&O America twice to talk to somebody about my experience but both times the manager was going to call me back, which they never did. I can only imagine what warranty service I will receive if I ever need it.  I am planning to file a complaint with the BBB.

     

     

     

     

  • 11-03-2008 5:52 PM In reply to

    • 9 LEE
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-14-2007
    • Moderator - UK
    • Posts 5,223
    • Founder

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    turbotol:

    Hi,

    In addition to the above, buying 2nd hand items seems to be frowned upon by both dealers and B&O America.  I recently purchased a 1-year old set of Beolab 5 speakers and was not able to purchase a set of shipping boxes from my dealer.  They initially quoted me $160 for 2 boxes but when I called two days later to ask for a delivery date they had canceled my order without telling me (their policy is that they do not sell packaging material to second owners).  Eventually the seller of the pair of speakers bought them on my behalf but only one box was delivered two weeks later at a final charge of $180.  The seller (or I) never received the second box. 

    I called B&O America twice to talk to somebody about my experience but both times the manager was going to call me back, which they never did. I can only imagine what warranty service I will receive if I ever need it.  I am planning to file a complaint with the BBB.

    Woah - that's not good at all.. 

    I know there are good and bad dealers everywhere, but (deviating slightly) - does there seem to be a heavy element of snobbery from dealers in general then?

    It does happen in the UK sometimes, when a salesman on £20k a year feels he is eminently superior to the customer that walks through the door that has probably just spent that amount on a fortnights holiday in the Caribbean...  Ridiculous i know, but it happens.

    Lee 

    BeoWorld - Everything Bang & Olufsen

  • 11-03-2008 5:53 PM In reply to

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    soundchoice70:

    So generally I would say the appreciation of great modernist design and therefore B&O would be perhaps somewhat limited. 

    I do agree with most of your observations that many Americans have traditional tastes.  However modernism is very much alive and well in the US.  You will have to come back for another visit especially in Chicago where I live.  There are modern skyscrapers and modern condominium residences everywhere.  I especially like Quadracci Pavilion in Milwaukee north of Chicago.  A link is below

    Usually the near wealthy and wealthy buy Bang & Olufsen products and don't bother with Ebay.  One time in the B&O store on State street I witnessed a person buy 5 Beovision 9's for a single house.  There were no questions asked.  When the Beovision 7 was introduced, the event was held at the local Bentley dealer.  Amazing cars but not exactly a B&O style.

    http://www.arcspace.com/architects/calatrava/milwaukee_art_museum/ 

     

    Lee,

    Many dealers don't take used B&O in trade nor do they extend much of a discount.  Some salesman seem a little detached from reality but most are attentive.  Sometimes the salesmen will ignore younger customers thinking you have to be 40 and in an Armani suit. However I like my dealer and work with the same salesman for all my purchases.  They have repaired items I have purchased on ebay without question.

     

    Beosound 5 BL9 BC2 BL8000 Beovision 7 BL6002  BL11 

     

  • 11-03-2008 8:42 PM In reply to

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    They should never frown upon 2nd life buyers. They should be treating this as an opportunity to present the brand in a very nice light, and sofar every dealer I visited was very nice.

    The discussion around modernism I find very interesting, I always felt that B&O does not fit into more classy home. 

    http://www.bang-olufsen.com/page.asp?id=343

     

    For the Beocenter 2, they took a picture in sort of a mixed home that combined modern and old. That is something that I found as well in Hotels designed by Starck and for me this is a very interesting style. But in a true old school home it does not work, neither does any other TV.

    JK 

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 11-03-2008 8:52 PM In reply to

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    Hi Linder,

    You perhaps missed it but I have been to your beautiful city, my sister now lives in Saint Charles outside of Chicago. And, yes I have been into the city numerous times, how could I not!.... which is filled with so many wonderful buildings and works, by the likes of Mies, Gehry etc, and not to mention all the early skyscrapers! Also went to see all the wonderful Frank Lloyd Wright houses... master of linear forms, beautiful spaces, light and proportion!

    Yes I agree, beautiful, Calatrava is another master, his public works are very poetic. Have you seen his bridges?  Exercises in tension and sensuous curves, quite breath taking.

    Really, I don't usually like to make sweeping generalisations, but it was my opinion (and I guess a little bit of surprise to be honest) of the feeling I got of the 'average' consumer during my trips there.... I know there are many world renown examples of modernist design in the US and people who are passionate about design like yourself.

     

     

     

  • 11-04-2008 12:59 PM In reply to

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    Hi,

    I moved to from Europe to Canada about 4 years ago and I have to say that their is a huge difference in styles between North-America and europe. I work as an interior designer doing both residential and commercial projects that go well into Northern US.

    As said before in this thread it is true that taste is relative and by default (a lot) more traditional in Northern America. B&O is mostly known here by the super rich here where money is no object. Do not forget they have more and sometimes better options available here in that respect.

    It's also probably why B&O is deciding to go further into home automation here in order to secure their market share. This market that has sustained B&O well over the past decades is now in turmoil and it's effects must be felt undeniably by B&O.

    Also the lack of the dealer (I can only speak of my local dealer) to help owners of older equipment is remarkable. I do fall in the 40 yr old catagory and should be considered a possible client and maybe I should start to dress like a hugely overpaid ceo when I visit my local store, cause when I go there I feel like an intruder each time. I have to beg them for some information as they are always 'too busy' doing nothing (surfing on the web).  A total letdown experience.  If you're not interested in spending more than 10000$, it's more of cash and carry kind of deal, and never mind the snooty service ..

    I hope it changes soon as alot of people will drop B&O over this.

     

  • 12-02-2008 11:58 AM In reply to

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    A couple of experiences... bought a Beosound 3 from a US ebayer. The price was ok, at the time, not too much competition. The player started to get wonky (technical term) and decided to bring it in to the local dealer. They scanned the serial and questioned why I had a EUR model. Anyways, paid for the diagnostics and surprisingly, the dealer pushed head office to cover it under warranty.

     

    Bought a BL3500 from another ebayer, customs decided to 'see' what was inside of the case (hoping to find a stinger missile) and attempted to open the end of the speaker with a flathead, failing that, they dented the cover and one of the speakers. Took it to the dealer, and had it all fixed (for a few hundred $s).

     I rarely wear suits, so 90% of the time, I walk into the store wearing jeans....

      

  • 12-02-2008 1:28 PM In reply to

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    It sounds like you have a much better dealer in your area than I do.

    I am still waiting for the second beolab 5 box (I received the first one more than a month ago).  I got notice yesterday that the second box was accidently shipped to Canada so who knows when the second box will eventually show up.  I ended up transporting the speakers one by one with my single box about 45 minutes each way by car.  At least my listening experience is making up for all the dealer hassle so far.

  • 12-05-2008 3:41 AM In reply to

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    It's disappointing to hear that there a few dealers like this. I have been in B&O stores in Europe, the US, Australia and Singapore. I too have come across the occasional rude and arrogant dealer before. Each time I swiftly leave the store.

    I think it is natural for a dealer to make a quick judgement of each person who walks through the door. I do not think this is bad, so long as their judgement is not made visible in any way.

    Returning to the initial topic of this thread however, I remember being told by a B&O employee that in the US many more vision products are sold than audio products.

  • 12-16-2008 1:14 PM In reply to

    • Evan
    • Top 25 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 12-15-2008
    • Ohio | USA
    • Posts 2,601
    • Gold Member

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    In the states, a B&O connoissieur such as myself is a rarity. A great majority of people in America often go through life without ever hearing a B&O product. Its quite depressing. When someone hears the name for the first time they often think it is a dirty joke of some sort. I think this awful mentality and lack of recognition really disadvantages the brand. I think another big part of the problem is the scarcity of dealers and their nearly minimal advertisment.

    Evan

     

  • 01-13-2009 11:30 PM In reply to

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    I just joined and I am enjoying this forum i currently have 4 B & O systems and my opinion to your comment about the US market is I think that there are opportunities for someone to start a similar business like Lifestyle in the UK to sell used B&O in the US used market because if your like me you get real cautious about ebay. With that said i have enjoyed tremendous success with Audiogon however they turn their nose up to the B&O equipement. I have to say I have had many cd players ( Macs, Simms. etc) but last year I purch. the BEO 4 and was blown away with the analog sound ( better than the six cd changer ) so B&O rocks and always will... Also hopefully some of the b and o executives read this they need to release a new turntable with a killer phono stage... It's time.. linear tracking, teakwood etc....
  • 01-14-2009 10:45 AM In reply to

    • Evan
    • Top 25 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 12-15-2008
    • Ohio | USA
    • Posts 2,601
    • Gold Member

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    bandorocks:
    I just joined and I am enjoying this forum i currently have 4 B & O systems and my opinion to your comment about the US market is I think that there are opportunities for someone to start a similar business like Lifestyle in the UK to sell used B&O in the US used market because if your like me you get real cautious about ebay. With that said i have enjoyed tremendous success with Audiogon however they turn their nose up to the B&O equipement. I have to say I have had many cd players ( Macs, Simms. etc) but last year I purch. the BEO 4 and was blown away with the analog sound ( better than the six cd changer ) so B&O rocks and always will... Also hopefully some of the b and o executives read this they need to release a new turntable with a killer phono stage... It's time.. linear tracking, teakwood etc....

    First off, welcome.

    I agree with your idea regarding opening a number of stores in the US similar to lifestyle. Mostly due to the fact that the current or average age of B&O owners are people that are not fond of the internet and prefer it the old - fashioned way, walking into a store. Ebay is an excellent resource when used properly. But these stores would require a lot of capital to get off the ground due the declining US economy. Not to mention how long it would take for these stores to break even.

    And yes, the CD players are superb.

    Evan

     

  • 01-14-2009 11:17 AM In reply to

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    Actually B&O's target market in the US is usually persons between age 30 and 50 who do use the internet. However generalizations about age just don't always work.  I am past 50 and have used computers and the internet for a long time.  I am also the one who in previous posts talks about the coming of the day when the CD players will be regarded like the turntable.....charming but out of date.

    I would like the idea of a store like Lifstyle AV in the US but probably only one store will work maybe in the New York area.  Since I am planning on upgrading to Beolab 5's and maybe Beosound 5 this year, I will have some older B&O items to sell.  I dread putting items on ebay due to the hassle.  Being a buyer is easier than being a seller.  It would be nice to send everything to a Livestyle store to do the selling. 

    Beosound 5 BL9 BC2 BL8000 Beovision 7 BL6002  BL11 

     

  • 01-14-2009 12:02 PM In reply to

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    Hi,

    I totally agree about having a store like lifestyle AV in the US.

    You can always list on this forum what you want to sell...

    I live in Montreal, Canada now and secondhand B&O items are very hard to find here.

    EBAY is my only option though not a lot of US ebayers seem to want to ship to Canada.... I am constantly looking to complement my existing set-up and I loose out on alot of deals because of that.

     

  • 01-14-2009 4:02 PM In reply to

    • beotex
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 04-20-2007
    • USA
    • Posts 32
    • Bronze Member

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    It would be nice to have a secondhand store, or have the offical shops with a preowned section. I have seen many shops in Europe that take trade-ins and sell the used equipment. That would be great.

    As much as I am wary of ebay, I have done ok buying / selling there. I won my Avant on ebay, and it turned out to be a few blocks from my house, so that was very lucky. Something that may be useful would be to use the sales forum on the site and preface the subject with USA or CAN (or MEX, etc) so we can easily identify North American items. Every now and then something from the US pops up in the sales forum, but it takes some digging to know the location.

  • 01-14-2009 4:17 PM In reply to

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    beotex:

    Something that may be useful would be to use the sales forum on the site and preface the subject with USA or CAN (or MEX, etc) so we can easily identify North American items. Every now and then something from the US pops up in the sales forum, but it takes some digging to know the location.

    i felt the same way... so i posted my last "for sale" with USA + the region... would be nice if there was some defaulting with the IP address? maybe in the new rev of beoworld coming soon...

    • B&o bottle opener
  • 01-15-2009 8:30 AM In reply to

    • Evan
    • Top 25 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 12-15-2008
    • Ohio | USA
    • Posts 2,601
    • Gold Member

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    beotex:

    It would be nice to have a secondhand store, or have the offical shops with a preowned section. I have seen many shops in Europe that take trade-ins and sell the used equipment. That would be great.

    As much as I am wary of ebay, I have done ok buying / selling there. I won my Avant on ebay, and it turned out to be a few blocks from my house, so that was very lucky. Something that may be useful would be to use the sales forum on the site and preface the subject with USA or CAN (or MEX, etc) so we can easily identify North American items. Every now and then something from the US pops up in the sales forum, but it takes some digging to know the location.

    Yes, a preowned section in an official B&O dealer is a handy resource but the products would be subject to very steep prices. In my experience with the small amount of used B&O items in my dealer, almost all of them were overpriced. You may have caught the thread about the $5000 (US) BM4500 and BGCD4500. That came from the same used lot at the dealer in question.

    Evan

     

  • 01-23-2009 12:17 AM In reply to

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    IF YOUR IN THE us TRY PUTTING YOUR ITEMS ON AUDIGON ...

  • 01-28-2009 5:05 PM In reply to

    • Piaf
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 07-08-2007
    • Victoria, British Columbia
    • Posts 409
    • Founder

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    The real difficulty in buying second hand B&O products, whether it be eBay or elsewhere is finding accommodating and knowledgeable service after your “treasure” arrives.

     

    I am from Florida where there are numerous B&O dealers, however I now live on Vancouver Island and there is virtually no repair facility available. The B&O store in Vancouver recommends a local and independent repair facility but they tend to answer their phones when the mood moves them.

     

    I have purchased two Beomasters, four Beograms, and two Beocords on eBay with the majority arriving in serious need of service/repair.

     

    My only viable option has been to work with the really great people here at BeoWorld and try to repair these items myself. “Necessity is the mother of invention.”

     

    As I see it the core problem is B&O is a smallish electronic firm in Denmark and they never fully developed a North American dealer network. In the larger cities, B&O is well established but once you leave New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Toronto, Montreal, etc. the dealer was as likely as not a one-person enterprise operating on a shoe-string. (Some were very good, but many were not.)

     

    B&O like any other company is faced (and compared) with competing firms like McIntosh, Sony, Linn, etc. and the comparison does not favor B&O, which is sad.

     

    I received absolutely no help from the Vancouver B&O shop (other then the phone number of their “service dept.”) as compared to the McIntosh dealer who while unable to repair my 31 year old amplifier sent it back to the factory, who completely rebuilt it, UNDER WARRENTEE!

     

    If B&O took service, in particular the service of “vintage” B&O products a bit more seriously it would great simplify the purchase and ownership of their amazing products.

     

    Jeff

  • 01-30-2009 8:57 AM In reply to

    • Evan
    • Top 25 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 12-15-2008
    • Ohio | USA
    • Posts 2,601
    • Gold Member

    Re: USA & Used B&O Market

    Well a comparison of B&O to Sony and those larger companies is most unfair.

    Evan

     

Page 1 of 2 (26 items) 1 2 Next >