Value, as beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. I buy B and O because of the design, the build quality,  the quality of the the sound and picture, and the integration. (Yes spend enough time, connect enough cables, get the programming done correctly and similiar integration is available with other products) We have an 8 yeat old Avant and a 2 month old Beovision 7. I enjoy watching the Avant still as much as the BV7. How many people are enjoying their 8 year old Sonys, Pioneers etc as much as a new one, assuming the 8 year old model still functions. I view our B and O purchases as both a functional purchase as well as a hobby. I assume many others, at least those who post here because they like B and O rather than constantly criticizing B and O, also consider it as an interest or hobby.

Does it make financial sense? Of course not. There is no consumer item that makes sense financially to purchase. We buy necessities and may spend more to get something nicer, an Audi instead of a VW, a Bentley instead of an Audi. As for the hobby or interest aspect of the purchase, someone whose hobby or interest is golf can spend B and O level sums to play golf a few months of the year and have nothing left to shpw for the money spent. Boaters spend huge sums on fuel.  It is all a matter or individual priorities. Everybody is different.

>>If you really believe your (UK) dealer is selling a lot of BV4's or BV9's<<

 I am saying the market is too small for them with this price segment. That example that you gave is not the type of customer I mean. I think the Manhattan stores cater to that. Think young Wall Street broker with 3 million $ or so annual bonus payment.  

Is going to be interesting to see how B&O will move within the portfolio. Are they going to do a BV7 like TV and a BV8 price hoping they get their margin through volume or do we see more products like BS4 and BV8. I am thinking the later since a BV priced even lower then BV8 was rumored.

 

Cheers

JK 

Isolated anecdotes and vocal minorities aside...

The BeoVision 4 or BeoVision 9 are unquestionably the wisest investments in plasma right now, assuming you're looking for such a capable device. You'll hear a few people talking about the Pioneer Kuro or bare Panasonic panels, but the Kuro's processing is unsophisticated when compared to the BeoSystem 3 and the sheer number of features on board make them unbeatable values.

Aside from the anti-glare contrast coating on the glass and the hand finished aluminum frames, the panels themselves have the ability to monitor ambient light for brightness and color temperature as well as self calibrate with a built-in camera. This keeps colors accurate over the life of the television as opposed to Pioneer et al. which degrades over time.

Any arguments the the televisions are going to be relegated to the junk heap by the breakneck pace of technology don't reflect the values of Bang & Olufsen and other luxury makers. I, like Razlaw, RussR, and others, own several generations of BeoVisions. How is it that my 1986 BeoVision MX is still working as a bedroom TV, but a lack of HDMI 1.3 will cause me to throw my BeoSystem 3 in the trash? It's just silly. All technology is going to be "out of date" to some extent. The key is to buy something that you'll be happy with over the years. Frankly you couldn't give me a 1 year old Pioneer screen, but I'd kill for another Avant or a 480p BeoVision 5! 

In summation, though, I would personally stick with the BeoVision 7. Had you not made a purchase already I may have different advice, but there's a special place in my heart for the "LCD Avant." 

TripEnglish:

Isolated anecdotes and vocal minorities aside...

The BeoVision 4 or BeoVision 9 are unquestionably the wisest investments in plasma right now, assuming you're looking for such a capable device. You'll hear a few people talking about the Pioneer Kuro or bare Panasonic panels, but the Kuro's processing is unsophisticated when compared to the BeoSystem 3 and the sheer number of features on board make them unbeatable values.

Aside from the anti-glare contrast coating on the glass and the hand finished aluminum frames, the panels themselves have the ability to monitor ambient light for brightness and color temperature as well as self calibrate with a built-in camera. This keeps colors accurate over the life of the television as opposed to Pioneer et al. which degrades over time.

Any arguments the the televisions are going to be relegated to the junk heap by the breakneck pace of technology don't reflect the values of Bang & Olufsen and other luxury makers. I, like Razlaw, RussR, and others, own several generations of BeoVisions. How is it that my 1986 BeoVision MX is still working as a bedroom TV, but a lack of HDMI 1.3 will cause me to throw my BeoSystem 3 in the trash? It's just silly. All technology is going to be "out of date" to some extent. The key is to buy something that you'll be happy with over the years. Frankly you couldn't give me a 1 year old Pioneer screen, but I'd kill for another Avant or a 480p BeoVision 5! 

In summation, though, I would personally stick with the BeoVision 7. Had you not made a purchase already I may have different advice, but there's a special place in my heart for the "LCD Avant." 

 

some interesting points here

Could you tell me technically on what basis the pioneers processing is as you call it 'unsophisticated'- perhaps you should check on the processing power of each unit!!

And you couldnt give you a 1 year old pioneer but your happy with the panasonic screen vecause it has B&O printed on it!

I agree with Razlaw and Shatner, value is in the eye of the beholder.

355f, 

I think this is a "teachable moment" here. Your response somehow indicates that I'm loopy for wanting an older BeoVision than a newer Pioneer. I absolutely stand by that! The reason is that all of the extras that surround the Panasonic screen make it much more than the sum of its parts. If you take a Nissan Maxima and a BMW 3 series brand new off the lot, you'd find a lot of reasonable comparisons and in some cases the Nissan might even come out ahead. Someone might sensibly judge, then, that the Nissan is the better buy as there is nearly a $10k savings. My thinking would be that the BMW is still a "better buy" as I'm getting more for my money even though I'm spending more of it. As the Nissan ages just a few years, its interior starts to fall apart. A little at first and pretty badly by year 5 or so. The leather's quality starts to show at around this time as well. It's gizmo's that initially attracted buyers have started to go offline one by one. Basically, it's not nearly as functional as it once was, and nowhere near as attractive or exciting. It's the kind of car you hand down to your teenage kids when they reach driving age. On the other hand, the BMW ages gracefully. It's more expensive to repair, but you actually want to repair it! It's still exciting to drive. It's higher quality materials age with grace and it becomes slightly battered in the most seductive way! I don't care if my 10 year old BMW doesn't have a push button ignition, I wouldn't trade it for a Nissan or Honda of the same age.

So what I'm trying to illustrate here is that I don't really care too much about the screen on the inside. It's competitive with the best if not the best when it's built, but all the extras (hand finished aluminum, higher quality glass) as well as the ease of integration make it an unbeatable package for people with my point of view. Which, by the way, is the point of view that Bang & Olufsen explicitly builds from.

While some of the gentlemen on this forum experiment with other solutions (Airtunes, etc.) Nothing is quite fully baked yet. I don't like participating in the operation of my equipment to the extent required by non-B&O solutions. I do enough of that at work! There's no need for us to compete with user-written scripts, multi-brand solutions, etc. Bang & Olufsen has never been about the adoption of every possible capability, but rather the careful selection of mature ones to give the user a more robust and serene user experience.  

TripEnglish:

but the Kuro's processing is unsophisticated when compared to the BeoSystem 3 and the sheer number of features on board make them unbeatable values.

Perhaps, true, but the BS3 can be overkill for the average user. Yes, there is a PQ difference between the BS3-based BV7-40 MKIII and the previous MKII, but I don't know if we need the entire BS3 in the BV7-40 MKIII for the average home user.

Personally I think I'd agree that I'd stick with the BV7 for the foreseeable future. I don't think I could justify the additional £6000 (approx) to upgrade to a BV4-50 with BS3. Indeed, if I traded in my current BV7-40 MKIII with 7.4 to the comparable BV4-50, BS3, BL10, it would cost me an additional £8000 ! [:'(] Same spec, larger screen, £8000 more.

Dave:

I agree with Razlaw and Shatner, value is in the eye of the beholder.

I'm not disagreeing with that at all. Some people would think I'm mad that I bought an expensive watch last year. Some people say 'I'd never spend more than £200 on a watch', then you find they've just spent £11K on a set of speakers and then use then to listen to compressed MP3 audio they've downloaded from iTunes :)

moxxey:

Dave:

I agree with Razlaw and Shatner, value is in the eye of the beholder.

I'm not disagreeing with that at all. Some people would think I'm mad that I bought an expensive watch last year. Some people say 'I'd never spend more than £200 on a watch', then you find they've just spent £11K on a set of speakers and then use then to listen to compressed MP3 audio they've downloaded from iTunes :)

Well said.  Excellent point.

moxxey:

I'm not disagreeing with that at all. Some people would think I'm mad that I bought an expensive watch last year. Some people say 'I'd never spend more than £200 on a watch', then you find they've just spent £11K on a set of speakers and then use then to listen to compressed MP3 audio they've downloaded from iTunes :)

I don't understand this post i'm so sorry... re phrase?

Weebyx, keep the BV7.

Your dealer is clever and playing a familiar trick.

1. This B&O or no B&O... tell him: "A working TV or my money back plus petrol"

I had a similar issue, had a problem with a caged item, my dealer said, I dont want to sell you another caged item...

Anyway, hes giving you a 'good' trade in price for your BV7, because:

1. He has to compensate you for your inconvininece... I got a £1000 off towards my new BV7
2. He gives you the impression that trade ins are great, so whatever you buy, he will pay you loads when it comes to the trade in, which is lies, ask how much hell take for a 2 year old B&O Plasma
3. He is attempting to sell you a much more expensive TV, more profit margin for him.

Keep the BV7, its a great TV, look past the 4.24 issues. You can perhaps even get him back, by asking for another new BV7 as a replacement! My dealer was great, i had an issue with the caged BV7-32 and i bought it in the UK, however work made me move to Paris. He paid for postage, BOTH WAYS to collect my old TV and replace it with the new BV7-40, even multiregioned it for free.

Im not lucky, this is what we should all get for the disapointment...

Whoops, gonna be late for work!!! Ta

timhanna:

Weebyx, keep the BV7.

Your dealer is clever and playing a familiar trick.

1. This B&O or no B&O... tell him: "A working TV or my money back plus petrol"

I had a similar issue, had a problem with a caged item, my dealer said, I dont want to sell you another caged item...

Anyway, hes giving you a 'good' trade in price for your BV7, because:

1. He has to compensate you for your inconvininece... I got a £1000 off towards my new BV7
2. He gives you the impression that trade ins are great, so whatever you buy, he will pay you loads when it comes to the trade in, which is lies, ask how much hell take for a 2 year old B&O Plasma
3. He is attempting to sell you a much more expensive TV, more profit margin for him.

Keep the BV7, its a great TV, look past the 4.24 issues. You can perhaps even get him back, by asking for another new BV7 as a replacement! My dealer was great, i had an issue with the caged BV7-32 and i bought it in the UK, however work made me move to Paris. He paid for postage, BOTH WAYS to collect my old TV and replace it with the new BV7-40, even multiregioned it for free.

Im not lucky, this is what we should all get for the disapointment...

Whoops, gonna be late for work!!! Ta

The problem is, that my humming noise has returned, and some nights i just turn the tv off, i don't like to watch tv when there is a humming noise in my ear alle the time. The 4.24 issue is no longer an issue since i had it downgraded to 4.17.

I just don't want a tv that expensive i dont want to use because of the noise it makes.

So i have made my mind, sort off :)

1. buy the BV4 50" plasma (after trial period to make sure it doesnt make as much noise)

2. Return the tv for at full refund and buy som other brand. This is probably not an option since i have been searching and reading, and all the hasle with setup/configuration/wires everywhere and son on is why i have B&O :)

3. Keep my BV7 and learn to live with the noise from the crappy Samsung panel. Turn the volume up :)

/Weebyx

Or swap for another BV7-40 MKIII that doesn't hum?

Weebyx:

timhanna:

Weebyx, keep the BV7.

Your dealer is clever and playing a familiar trick.

1. This B&O or no B&O... tell him: "A working TV or my money back plus petrol"

I had a similar issue, had a problem with a caged item, my dealer said, I dont want to sell you another caged item...

Anyway, hes giving you a 'good' trade in price for your BV7, because:

1. He has to compensate you for your inconvininece... I got a £1000 off towards my new BV7
2. He gives you the impression that trade ins are great, so whatever you buy, he will pay you loads when it comes to the trade in, which is lies, ask how much hell take for a 2 year old B&O Plasma
3. He is attempting to sell you a much more expensive TV, more profit margin for him.

Keep the BV7, its a great TV, look past the 4.24 issues. You can perhaps even get him back, by asking for another new BV7 as a replacement! My dealer was great, i had an issue with the caged BV7-32 and i bought it in the UK, however work made me move to Paris. He paid for postage, BOTH WAYS to collect my old TV and replace it with the new BV7-40, even multiregioned it for free.

Im not lucky, this is what we should all get for the disapointment...

Whoops, gonna be late for work!!! Ta

The problem is, that my humming noise has returned, and some nights i just turn the tv off, i don't like to watch tv when there is a humming noise in my ear alle the time. The 4.24 issue is no longer an issue since i had it downgraded to 4.17.

I just don't want a tv that expensive i dont want to use because of the noise it makes.

So i have made my mind, sort off :)

1. buy the BV4 50" plasma (after trial period to make sure it doesnt make as much noise)

2. Return the tv for at full refund and buy som other brand. This is probably not an option since i have been searching and reading, and all the hasle with setup/configuration/wires everywhere and son on is why i have B&O :)

3. Keep my BV7 and learn to live with the noise from the crappy Samsung panel. Turn the volume up :)

/Weebyx

Still that bloody humming noise? I remember that you mentioned this some time ago! Dude, if i was you, send it back and get a another one, then another one and another one until its fixed! 

MAKE SURE: That you get a killer discount from your dealer for the problems that youve faced AND if they continue to get arsy, then go to B&O or even another store and report the problems with the tv.

 how old is the TV and which MK is it?

Maybe you got some dodgy side lamp interfering with the TV? I used to have some speakers Creative DT2200, pc stuff, that when i have a certain type of bulb... it causes a humming noise. Are you sure its the TV that hums or the BL7? 

timhanna:

Still that bloody humming noise? I remember that you mentioned this some time ago! Dude, if i was you, send it back and get a another one, then another one and another one until its fixed! 

MAKE SURE: That you get a killer discount from your dealer for the problems that youve faced AND if they continue to get arsy, then go to B&O or even another store and report the problems with the tv.

 how old is the TV and which MK is it?

Maybe you got some dodgy side lamp interfering with the TV? I used to have some speakers Creative DT2200, pc stuff, that when i have a certain type of bulb... it causes a humming noise. Are you sure its the TV that hums or the BL7? 

Yes that bloody noise is still haunting me, it has been going on for 6 months now, the first tv i had the panel replaced, same story, then B&O gave me a new one, still the noise. This new set is about 1 month old, BV7 MKIII Full HD.

The noise is 100% from the tv, i can make it go away by turning the contrast all the way up. There is no lamps surrounding the tv, and the speakers is BL8000/7.4.

My "problem" is that my dealer has been very good to me, they have done everything in their power. I have had a B&O tech guy to my house, and he said "yes, they do sometimes make that noise" there was nothing he could do he said :(

I just talked to another store today, and he said that they have replaced the panels on some 7-32 because of humming noise.

Don't know what to, on one hand i don't feel like i can keep complaining to my dealer, on the other hand , i have just paid 8000pounds for at tv, and then it damn better work.

/Weebyx

timhanna:

Still that bloody humming noise? I remember that you mentioned this some time ago! Dude, if i was you, send it back and get a another one, then another one and another one until its fixed! 

MAKE SURE: That you get a killer discount from your dealer for the problems that youve faced AND if they continue to get arsy, then go to B&O or even another store and report the problems with the tv.

 how old is the TV and which MK is it?

Maybe you got some dodgy side lamp interfering with the TV? I used to have some speakers Creative DT2200, pc stuff, that when i have a certain type of bulb... it causes a humming noise. Are you sure its the TV that hums or the BL7? 

Yes that bloody noise is still haunting me, it has been going on for 6 months now, the first tv i had the panel replaced, same story, then B&O gave me a new one, still the noise. This new set is about 1 month old, BV7 MKIII Full HD.

The noise is 100% from the tv, i can make it go away by turning the contrast all the way up. There is no lamps surrounding the tv, and the speakers is BL8000/7.4.

My "problem" is that my dealer has been very good to me, they have done everything in their power. I have had a B&O tech guy to my house, and he said "yes, they do sometimes make that noise" there was nothing he could do he said :(

I just talked to another store today, and he said that they have replaced the panels on some 7-32 because of humming noise.

Don't know what to, on one hand i don't feel like i can keep complaining to my dealer, on the other hand , i have just paid 8000pounds for at tv, and then it damn better work.

/Weebyx

I see... well its definitely not possible to keep quiet about it...

If you dont live far from the dealer, just ask them to take your TV back and test it in store... make sure that ou go over too and test it... just to prove that its nothing in your house doing it... if it still happens, ask them to put the same settings as you have at home to their demo TV. If there is no humming noise, then you might as well get them to replace it again.

They are only going to send it back to B&O, shouldnt affect them.

Do it mate, get another one until its perfect and magical. even if u just leave it in store, and they dont offer you a temp TV, its ok, because this way, you will miss the BV7 and when u do get the new TV back, its going to be fun again

timhanna:

I see... well its definitely not possible to keep quiet about it...

If you dont live far from the dealer, just ask them to take your TV back and test it in store... make sure that ou go over too and test it... just to prove that its nothing in your house doing it... if it still happens, ask them to put the same settings as you have at home to their demo TV. If there is no humming noise, then you might as well get them to replace it again.

They are only going to send it back to B&O, shouldnt affect them.

Do it mate, get another one until its perfect and magical. even if u just leave it in store, and they dont offer you a temp TV, its ok, because this way, you will miss the BV7 and when u do get the new TV back, its going to be fun again

I see your point, but at some point you just get tired of all the hasle, it has been going on for 6 months now. And i dont see it getting better.

I will talk to my dealer tomorrow and ask him if he can put my BV7 in his beoliving room. Just to get some quiet surroundings. It is not possible to hear the noise between customers and other noise. There is so much else that is making noise.

/Weebyx

Good idea. Its nice a quiet there and all that youll need to do is wait for a new delivery...

timhanna:

Weebyx:

timhanna:

Weebyx, keep the BV7.

Your dealer is clever and playing a familiar trick.

1. This B&O or no B&O... tell him: "A working TV or my money back plus petrol"

I had a similar issue, had a problem with a caged item, my dealer said, I dont want to sell you another caged item...

Anyway, hes giving you a 'good' trade in price for your BV7, because:

1. He has to compensate you for your inconvininece... I got a £1000 off towards my new BV7
2. He gives you the impression that trade ins are great, so whatever you buy, he will pay you loads when it comes to the trade in, which is lies, ask how much hell take for a 2 year old B&O Plasma
3. He is attempting to sell you a much more expensive TV, more profit margin for him.

Keep the BV7, its a great TV, look past the 4.24 issues. You can perhaps even get him back, by asking for another new BV7 as a replacement! My dealer was great, i had an issue with the caged BV7-32 and i bought it in the UK, however work made me move to Paris. He paid for postage, BOTH WAYS to collect my old TV and replace it with the new BV7-40, even multiregioned it for free.

Im not lucky, this is what we should all get for the disapointment...

Whoops, gonna be late for work!!! Ta

The problem is, that my humming noise has returned, and some nights i just turn the tv off, i don't like to watch tv when there is a humming noise in my ear alle the time. The 4.24 issue is no longer an issue since i had it downgraded to 4.17.

I just don't want a tv that expensive i dont want to use because of the noise it makes.

So i have made my mind, sort off :)

1. buy the BV4 50" plasma (after trial period to make sure it doesnt make as much noise)

2. Return the tv for at full refund and buy som other brand. This is probably not an option since i have been searching and reading, and all the hasle with setup/configuration/wires everywhere and son on is why i have B&O :)

3. Keep my BV7 and learn to live with the noise from the crappy Samsung panel. Turn the volume up :)

/Weebyx

Still that bloody humming noise? I remember that you mentioned this some time ago! Dude, if i was you, send it back and get a another one, then another one and another one until its fixed! 

MAKE SURE: That you get a killer discount from your dealer for the problems that youve faced AND if they continue to get arsy, then go to B&O or even another store and report the problems with the tv.

 how old is the TV and which MK is it?

Maybe you got some dodgy side lamp interfering with the TV? I used to have some speakers Creative DT2200, pc stuff, that when i have a certain type of bulb... it causes a humming noise. Are you sure its the TV that hums or the BL7? 

well you seem determined not to visit a home cinema specialist who can provide you with a set up you want that perfoms better- they do all the setting up- how is that to much hastle.- look at Loewe as well if you want integrated solutions off the shelf.

Presently, the entire structure of B&O flat screens needs to overhauled- as you have discovered the BV7 leaves a lot to be desired for a 10K TV so why pay 7K more for a plasma- its  a panasonic after all and the screens have issues- which if youve paid 2K for you accept- but not 12K for a 'hand made aluminium frame' and the belief that the panel will be more enduring because of said frame- you can fool some of gthe people some of the time......

As my mother always said, "If you can't say anything nice, your screen name is 355f and you post anonymously on an online forum." Or something like that.

TripEnglish:

As my mother always said, "If you can't say anything nice, your screen name is 355f and you post anonymously on an online forum." Or something like that.

 

Name and address supplied on request. Its about realism- not if you cant say anything nice. And clearly im not alone otherwsie the sales would not be in serious decline would they!

TripEnglish:

As my mother always said, "If you can't say anything nice, your screen name is 355f and you post anonymously on an online forum." Or something like that.

He's only being realistic Trip. It's not nice owning a £9000 TV, with various embarrassing sw issues, then going to your dealer to be told that you're not 'important' enough to B&O to get any discount or help on current/future products, even if you spend £15K+.

The current B&O experience isn't fantastic and it ought to be, for the money we're spending. 355f, myself and others are positive and hope it will improve in the future. Indeed, the signs are that it will....but at the moment the experience isn't great.

Moxxey,

You and I are on the same side of many issues, but as a retailer I have to say that the software issues are more an issue with the dealers than the televisions. Any issues we have here with the software jump and the resulting "bugs" can be temporarily solved by reverting to the previous version. Once the fix is in place we can re-address whichever systems it has affected.

I wish that all store experiences were top notch, but as long as stores are independantly owned there is likely to be less consistency than I'd personally like to see.

I do agree, however, that if a screen of ours is buzzing and this issue has been "let go" by a retailer, someone should be taken to task. On that note, I have dealt two times over the years with a product "hum" and in both instances it turned out to be an electrical problem. I remember the first one at the Swedish embassy a few years back and it made me want to rip my hair out. It turned out to be a faulty dimmer ballast on a shared circuit. The second time it also turned out to be lighting on a shared circuit. The offending device does not have to be phyically near the television in order to affect it. This problem could have nothing to do with an electrical issue, but I thought I'd throw it out there just in case.

TripEnglish:

Moxxey,

You and I are on the same side of many issues, but as a retailer I have to say that the software issues are more an issue with the dealers than the televisions. Any issues we have here with the software jump and the resulting "bugs" can be temporarily solved by reverting to the previous version. Once the fix is in place we can re-address whichever systems it has affected.

I wish that all store experiences were top notch, but as long as stores are independantly owned there is likely to be less consistency than I'd personally like to see.

I do agree, however, that if a screen of ours is buzzing and this issue has been "let go" by a retailer, someone should be taken to task. On that note, I have dealt two times over the years with a product "hum" and in both instances it turned out to be an electrical problem. I remember the first one at the Swedish embassy a few years back and it made me want to rip my hair out. It turned out to be a faulty dimmer ballast on a shared circuit. The second time it also turned out to be lighting on a shared circuit. The offending device does not have to be phyically near the television in order to affect it. This problem could have nothing to do with an electrical issue, but I thought I'd throw it out there just in case.

But would you still say, that when i can make the hum go away by turning the contrast all the way up, it could be something else than the tv ?

/Weebyx