355f,

I can really hear a great difference between an ordinary DD-track and DolbyTru-HD track at the same BR-movie, when I let the player do the decoding and the incoming signal to BS3 is Multichannel PCM. I have made a lot of A/B-tests between lossy-tracks (DD) and lossless-tracks (DolbyTru HD and DTS-HD). In this case I dont compare apple and pears if I use the same BR-movie in the A/B-tests. Of course some BR-records dont have both tracks but those who have this, you can make an appropriate A/B-test.

Multi-channel, yes.

24bit/96kHz, yes.

But can it handle 24bit/96 or 192 kHz in all channels?

(The audio processor is 32bit in BeoSystem 3, but it's the sample rate through all channels that is crucial). Remember my example with the Pioneer above which dropped the sample-rate for multichannel, from 2-channel?

martin01:

I have talked to one B&O engineer (in Struer) who says that BS3 support and can handle 96khz/24bit and he says that it also handle Multichannel PCM. So obviosly different people at B&O says different things.

Ok, I'm going to go back to B&O and quote you on this. I'll see how they respond. If an engineer in Struer has given you this official line, and it's untrue, then they might need to investigate further. I don't want B&O telling the press (me) officially that it's not supported, when it is supported. Can you imagine if we printed that it one of our magazines? B&O's official response is..

Moxxey, how many times should I say to you the following:

Beosystem 3 DOES NOT HAVE THE ABILITY to decode DolbyTrue HD and DTS-HD. But it has the ability to recieve already decoded sound from the Bluray-player as Multichannel PCM. How hard is it to understand this???

/Martin

martin01:

Moxxey, how many times should I say to you the following:

Beosystem 3 DOES NOT HAVE THE ABILITY to decode DolbyTrue HD and DTS-HD. But it has the ability to recieve already decoded sound from the Bluray-player as Multichannel PCM. How hard is it to understand this???

/Martin

Martin, either your English can be poor or you are simply very confusing.

You've just said: : "I can really hear a great difference between an ordinary DD-track and DolbyTru-HD track at the same BR-movie"

Which implies (do you know the word 'imply', in English?) that you're saying that your BS3 can recognise, process and playback HD audio. If you can hear it, it's processing and playing the audio.

Think about what you're saying!

to Soundproof:

You said: Martin - it's down to whether BeoSystem 3 can handle the huge datastream

If you feed BS3 with Multichannel PCM-sound (decoded HD-sound or lossy DD-sound) it is not a huge datastream. But, if you feed BS3 with uncoded Bitstream-signal of the new DolbyTrue-HD and DTS-HD it require HDMI 1.3 at both ends, because this is really a huge datastream, and of course it require that BS3 can decode the bitsream-signal. And HDMI 1.3 can handle this fast datastream. HDMI 1.1 can not handle this fast datastream.

The main thing about this is that Multichannel PCM is not a huge datastream and therefore BS3 can handle it. You can read about this at different AV-forum if you want.

to soundproof,

You dont need anymore than 96khz. No BR-movie is recorded in higher kzh than 96. And to this date there are just a few that have 96khz-recording (Celine Dion - Live in Las Vegas). Most of the BR-movies is recorded in 48 khz.

Moxxey:

The problem with you is that you dont understand how the process of the sound works when we are talking about internal decoding in the player, Multichannel PCM and Bitstream and so on. If you understood what I am writing then you should not have the problem om reading my English. Maybe I spell som words wrong but I know what I am writing. There are other people at this forum who understand what I am writing. So please, take an our or two, and read about this subject on the Internet and then come back.

Martin,

This fun little slugfest would make more sense if you accepted the point. I'm perfectly aware that BeoSystem 3 can process 24/96 in two-channel mode.
I am not convinced it will process DD or DTS full resolution in all channels, since that is not spec'd for.

I'm listening to 5.1 music with 24bit/192kHz resolution on all channels as I'm typing this ... Divertimenti.

- 5.1 LPCM 24BIT/192 kHz
- 5.1 DTS HD Master Audio 24BIT/192 kHz
- 5.1 Dolby True HD 24BIT/192 kHz

moxxey:

Razlaw:

So we have different anonymous sources connected to B and O, some say yes, some say no.

Who has said that B&O have said 'yes'? Could you give me this quote please? ie. show me some info. Everything I've read here indicates that B&O say that it does not support True HD or any HD audio. They told me this directly and so did my local dealer.

Read Martin's post from about 20 minutes before yours for instance. He indicates he spoke to an engineer at B and O. I seem to remember a similiar ealier in this thread. Also, my dealer has confirmed it to me.

Razlaw:

moxxey:

Razlaw:

So we have different anonymous sources connected to B and O, some say yes, some say no.

Who has said that B&O have said 'yes'? Could you give me this quote please? ie. show me some info. Everything I've read here indicates that B&O say that it does not support True HD or any HD audio. They told me this directly and so did my local dealer.

Read Martin's post from about 20 minutes before yours for instance. He indicates he spoke to an engineer at B and O. I seem to remember a similiar ealier in this thread. Also, my dealer has confirmed it to me.

With respect your dealer knows nothing about the internals and the way BS3 processes them and the way it has been configured to do so.

It seems in this 'debate' that anything B&O confirm is not regarded as having any credibility at all - and yet, they are the only ones qualified to confirm it.Then we even have some individuals maintaining its some kind of  'secret feature' that B&o dont know about!

Still we have user martin maintining that hes is listening to true HD via his BS3 so thats very interesting!

martin01:

Raslaw, I have a question to you: How can you see the khz-output (at Multichannel PCM) at BS3/Bv7?

You said that you push Menu+3. But then you should get up the "picture"-menu, or am I wrong? Please explain how you do.

Regards
Martin

I have a Sony Blu-Ray connected. I use V. Aux as an added button on the Beo 4 to activate it. I have the Blu-Ray set to output uncompressed PCM. Then I put a Blu-Ray in that has an uncompressed PCM track, I just did it with 3:10 to Yuma.

While the movie is playing if I hit "menu" and 3 I get a screen that says   1/3   Linear PCM English  3/4.1   48kHz. Maybe it is the Blu-Ray putting up the display. Doing the exact same sequence, but durring the previews results in Dolby Digital being displayed. Maybe this is just what the player it outputting, but there certainly is sound so it seems either the BV7 accepts it or down converts it to something the BV7 can accept. I would think that if the BV7 did not accept the uncompressed PCM I would hear nothing, much as putting a DVD Audio in a regular DVD player will not work.

If I go into the BV7 "sound system" under the options-sound menu it displays "Multi Channel PCM" as the output format so it is pretty clear that some form of multi channel PCM is in fact being output by the BV7.

355f:

Razlaw:

moxxey:

Razlaw:

So we have different anonymous sources connected to B and O, some say yes, some say no.

Who has said that B&O have said 'yes'? Could you give me this quote please? ie. show me some info. Everything I've read here indicates that B&O say that it does not support True HD or any HD audio. They told me this directly and so did my local dealer.

Read Martin's post from about 20 minutes before yours for instance. He indicates he spoke to an engineer at B and O. I seem to remember a similiar ealier in this thread. Also, my dealer has confirmed it to me.

With respect your dealer knows nothing about the internals and the way BS3 processes them and the way it has been configured to do so.

It seems in this 'debate' that anything B&O confirm is not regarded as having any credibility at all - and yet, they are the only ones qualified to confirm it.Then we even have some individuals maintaining its some kind of  'secret feature' that B&o dont know about!

Still we have user martin maintining that hes is listening to true HD via his BS3 so thats very interesting!

Once again you are ignoring Martin's post that he spoke with an ENGINEER at B and O, as opposed to your source who you do not even identify by job title.  As you say, B and O are qualified to answer the question but appears that B and O has given different people different answers.,

With respect to my dealer, it is a few miles from B and O's North American Corporate Headquarters. I have even been in the store and discussed purchases with Corporate representatives, rather than people who work for the store. I have  read online an article indicating that when B and O has a new product to roll out, again due to the proximity they choose my dealer. In fact, according to the same article, other manufacturers also choose my dealer to unveil new technology given the uniqueness of the store. My dealer has demonstrated his in depth knowledge on more than one occasion and talks frequently of his training at B and O. He is always able to contact somebody at B and O Corporate, even on weekends, as I have seen him do when he does need and answer to a question.  So please forget about attacking the competence level there.

martin01:

Moxxey:

The problem with you is that you dont understand how the process of the sound works..

You do make me smile. Yes, I don't understand at all. I only both studied this at University and work in IT press.

I understand exactly what is supported and what isn't supported. I also know you've contradicted yourself on various occasions and that B&O's official line is that HD audio isn't supported.

Razlaw:

Read Martin's post from about 20 minutes before yours for instance. He indicates he spoke to an engineer at B and O. I seem to remember a similiar ealier in this thread. Also, my dealer has confirmed it to me.

Dealers confirm a lot of things, but it doesn't mean it's the official line. Sales people can get carried away and/or assume it must support HD audio, simply as it's a high-end A/V unit.

Martin might have spoken to an engineer on the subject, but I'm going to confirm this with B&O officially.

moxxey:

Razlaw:

Read Martin's post from about 20 minutes before yours for instance. He indicates he spoke to an engineer at B and O. I seem to remember a similiar ealier in this thread. Also, my dealer has confirmed it to me.

Dealers confirm a lot of things, but it doesn't mean it's the official line. Sales people can get carried away and/or assume it must support HD audio, simply as it's a high-end A/V unit.

Martin might have spoken to an engineer on the subject, but I'm going to confirm this with B&O officially.

With respect to my dealer, it is a few miles from B and O's North American Corporate Headquarters. I have even been in the store and discussed purchases with Corporate representatives, rather than people who work for the store. I have  read online an article indicating that when B and O has a new product to roll out, again due to the proximity they choose my dealer. In fact, according to the same article, other manufacturers also choose my dealer to unveil new technology given the uniqueness of the store. My dealer has demonstrated his in depth knowledge on more than one occasion and talks frequently of his training at B and O. He is always able to contact somebody at B and O Corporate, even on weekends, as I have seen him do when he does need and answer to a question. 

Razlaw:

moxxey:

Razlaw:

Read Martin's post from about 20 minutes before yours for instance. He indicates he spoke to an engineer at B and O. I seem to remember a similiar ealier in this thread. Also, my dealer has confirmed it to me.

Dealers confirm a lot of things, but it doesn't mean it's the official line. Sales people can get carried away and/or assume it must support HD audio, simply as it's a high-end A/V unit.

Martin might have spoken to an engineer on the subject, but I'm going to confirm this with B&O officially.

With respect to my dealer, it is a few miles from B and O's North American Corporate Headquarters. I have even been in the store and discussed purchases with Corporate representatives, rather than people who work for the store. I have  read online an article indicating that when B and O has a new product to roll out, again due to the proximity they choose my dealer. In fact, according to the same article, other manufacturers also choose my dealer to unveil new technology given the uniqueness of the store. My dealer has demonstrated his in depth knowledge on more than one occasion and talks frequently of his training at B and O. He is always able to contact somebody at B and O Corporate, even on weekends, as I have seen him do when he does need and answer to a question. 

All  manufacturers  'unveil new technology' at the CES show and IFA in Berlin.

Im sure your dealer is of some standing but all new product launches go via the 2 major trade shows every year. Ill send your dealers some tickets if you like

I said nothing about CES or IFA, but here is an article on the dealer.  For instance, according to the article, when Samsung had only 2 of a new $150,000 TV, one went to my dealer to be showcased, and Sub-Zero spent $1,000,000 on their 3,000 square foot space within my dealer.  When a manufacturer the size of Samsung has only two copies of a particular model available in the world, and one ends up at my dealer, I think that speaks volumes about the dealer. I do apologize, I did not know that you would parse the word "unveil" in such a literal technical sense. I will rephrase with the terminology from the article, "roll out."  See also the second link, Abt one was one of the first seven stores in America to carry the new OLED from Sony.

Abt Article

Abt Electronics » Blog Archive » Sony’s XEL-1 Offers New Technology

Razlaw:

I said nothing about CES or IFA, but here is an article on the dealer.  For instance, according to the article, when Samsung had only 2 of a new $150,000 TV, one went to my dealer to be showcased, and Sub-Zero spent $1,000,000 on their 3,000 square foot space within my dealer.

Abt Article

yes but thats not unveling new technology. Thats dealer pre release.

In general Ifa or CES has the items on display in working or prototype form sometimes 12 months before the dealer gets it

Please re-read my last post, I apologized for using the word unveil that you choose to parse so literally and should have said "roll out" as the article said.

Also, see the additional link I added to that post indicating Abt was one of the first seven stores in America with the new OLED TV from Sony.

I stand by the statement and the articles statements. Abt is frequently chosed to ROLL OUT  new products by manufacturers.

Razlaw:

Please re-read my last post, I apologized for using the word unveil that you choose to parse so literally and should have said "roll out" as the article said.

Also, see the additional link I added to that post indicating Abt was one of the first seven stores in America with the new OLED TV from Sony.

I stand by the statement and the articles statements. Abt is frequently chosed to ROLL OUT  new products by manufacturers.

Oh no problem at all but im sure you can see that one word makes a big difference.

Unveil gives the impression your dealer is party to technical information no one else has, and by inference would indiacte they have more knowledge than anyone else on technical matters- Unnamed sources at B&O dont seem to hold much water but a dealer that is party to unveling of new technology has a certain ring ! But rolll out well....... thats sales

Actually you give a good example in OLED that was shown initially 2 years ago at IFA.

One thing that does frustrate me with Beoworld is that I know for a fact that both dealers and B&O UK watch and read posts on this board, but will not reply or leave an official response. I do wish that someone from the company would come on here and say "this is the official line", rather than going through a dealer or responding to press queries.

B&O's view of discussing issues via your dealer is fine, as long as the dealer follows the official line and will not exaggerate performance. Unfortunately this can happen when you leave sales people, who are set performance targets, on the showroom floor.

moxxey:

One thing that does frustrate me with Beoworld is that I know for a fact that both dealers and B&O UK watch and read posts on this board, but will not reply or leave an official response. I do wish that someone from the company would come on here and say "this is the official line", rather than going through a dealer or responding to press queries.

B&O's view of discussing issues via your dealer is fine, as long as the dealer follows the official line and will not exaggerate performance. Unfortunately this can happen when you leave sales people, who are set performance targets, on the showroom floor.

It's because the "official line" is possibly, or indeed very probably, not the whole truth. The marketing men in Struer having been presented with a product,  will have decided how the product will be sold, will then write the spec to reflect this and feed it to the dealers and sales staff. The dealers and staff quickly realise that the market has moved in another direction (Blu-ray, true HD picture and sound, HDMI etc) but are left to sell what the factory are producing. Hence they are prone to some exagerration in order to feed their families.

You may think that this is all a bit back to front but comanies like B&O are often "development led" which is why they find them selves in todays predicament and why you are having this discussion............again.

It is amusing, isn't it?

Since Home-Theater buffs the world over are searching high-and-low for processors that are truly HD-Audio capable, you'd think B&O would trumpet it if their BeoSystem 3 was capable of true HD-audio.