Let's rephrase the question.....if I do the following:

1. Set the Blu-Ray player to output uncompressed PCM in the Blue-Ray player.

2. Set a Blu-Ray disc to select the uncompresed PCM track in the Disc set-up menu, not Dolby or DTS and not Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master HD  and play it

here is what I get

1. The onscreen menu for the Blu-Ray player advises me that it is in fact putting out multi-channel PCM at 48kHz, just as it is set to do

2. The on screen menu for the BV7, under "Sound System" indicates that it is receiving as the input "Multichannel PCM" and that the output is exactly the same, "Multichannel PCM."

So, the Blu-Ray player, the BV7 input and output all say the same thing, multichannel PCM, so the question is,                                  

what exactly am I hearing?

 

Razlaw:

So, the Blu-Ray player, the BV7 input and output all say the same thing, multichannel PCM, so the question is,                                  

To further complicate matters though, I get 'multichannel PCM' on the BV7 when viewing an SD DVD through the PS3. My PS3 is set to 'PCM' rather than bitstream.

Speaking purely as an interested, innocent bystander I think it is now clear that the BS3 cannot decode HD audio from Blueray players, but it does seem to accept an already decoded PCM stream from a suitably equipped player.

The oustanding question, and it would seem the centre of the disagreement, is what resolution and sample-rate the BS3 can accept and consequently what it outputs from its audio out channels and what if any sample rate conversion goes on within the BS3.

A PCM signal is just that, it does not imply any specific resolution or quality.

Puncher:

Speaking purely as an interested, innocent bystander I think it is now clear that the BS3 cannot decode HD audio from Blueray players, but it does seem to accept an already decoded PCM stream from a suitably equipped player.

The oustanding question, and it would seem the centre of the disagreement, is what resolution and sample-rate the BS3 can accept and consequently what it outputs from its audio out channels and what if any sample rate conversion goes on within the BS3.

A PCM signal is just that, it does not imply any specific resolution or quality.

I think you are correct. And I agree that it raises the question, is there a sample rate conversion going on in the BS3?  The specifications do not list any such capability.

Razlaw:

Puncher:

Speaking purely as an interested, innocent bystander I think it is now clear that the BS3 cannot decode HD audio from Blueray players, but it does seem to accept an already decoded PCM stream from a suitably equipped player.

The oustanding question, and it would seem the centre of the disagreement, is what resolution and sample-rate the BS3 can accept and consequently what it outputs from its audio out channels and what if any sample rate conversion goes on within the BS3.

A PCM signal is just that, it does not imply any specific resolution or quality.

I think you are correct. And I agree that it raises the question, is there a sample rate conversion going on in the BS3?  The specifications do not list any such capability.

One thought would be to view the original specs from the PixelWorks (or whoever produced the BS3 chipset) website? BeoLab once posted the info on this forum, if someone has the time to search...

Excellent idea. I found the thread about mentioning PixelWorks. It appears to me however that it is video.

This article seems to rephrase the question as whether or not the receiver will accept 8 channels of PCM.

 

Blu-ray Audio Formats Explained

Razlaw, let's concentrate on the BS3 and get some hard facts. One thing I did read though was if your Blu-ray player can show the current "audio bitrate that would indicate which track is being decoded. DTS-HD HR is variable but should have bitrate >1.5Mbps and peaks much hihger. DTS "legacy" will be a flat 1.5Mbps CBR (constant bit rate)."

I would have thought that the Pixelworks chipset would support both audio and video. Their site seems to suggest it does. However, very limited public information on that site, sadly.

Anyone else? This is a time for The Stig and Beolab to step forward. Where is Beolab these days?

Interesting. Just tested Batman Begins with True HD turned on using the PS3. It says 'Dolby TrueHD 5.1Ch. 48kHz 2.7 Mbps VC-1 14.2 Mbps' in the pop-up display.

If I switch back to Dolby 5.1, it says:  'Dolby Digital 5.1Ch. 48kHz 640Kbps VC-1 14.4 Mbps'

Erm, and the sound is much more defined using True HD over Dolby Digital, playing the same sequence (when the kid falls in to the well, at the beginning).

So....I can safely conclude that the BS3 DOES do something with the incoming True HD track and results in a better quality audio track.

But, does that mean proper support? Gawd this is going to go on for months!

One thing I was thinking was this: perhaps the BS3 in the BV9 and BV7-40 MKIII contains an upgraded chipset which supports (or part supports) True HD? This would be a reason why B&O say it isn't supported, as older standalone BS3's - where the user paid over £5K for the priviledge of ownership - would demand an upgrade? Older BS3 owners wouldn't be too happy to find the newest models were upgraded and supported a wider range of codecs?

Remember the BS3 in the BV7-40 MKIII is relatively 'cheap' as it's part of the TV.

My head hurts.

Well the explanation for more crisp and so on could possible come from the principle that the core track is contained in the true HD track- hence the term -layered.

Its very surprising the differences  volume levels between inputs can make. Be that as is may, there is a possibility that Soundproof came up with- namely that the BS3 is doing something with the signal but its downconverting it to a level of capability for the BS3- so one may be getting a sort of psedo HD!!!

What is a good experience is to get to a home cinema store and get them to play HD dvd in a proper set up and you will then hear what HD is all about-

Onto the chipset- now here im not sure so its just conjecture! I think B&O have configured the BS3 so that the pixelwroks chip is for video only- Even if one knew the actual chipset used to control audio it depends how the hardware has been configured and that is why only B&O can say.

It seems to me that they would not engineer the BS3 to support HD audio because at the time of developing it they had no BR player and the costs would be quite significant for a feature most B&O customer would never understand.

Whilst I have read all the articles about the reverse compatability of HDMI 1.1- 1.3 The internal complexity of a 1.3 product is substantial compared to 1.1 and HD audio and HDMI 1.3 are very closely linked and the new solutions avaiable are all linked to 1.3- even if a mid stream chip change has taken place there would still need to be other hardware and supporting changes which would probably make it uneconomic to upgrade

Thats why I think when they come out with a BR they will then engineer the bs3 for hdmi1.3 because i doubt they have access to a player that can decode internally  Either that or they assume their customers are stupid once more and produce a BR player that is not profile 2!

 

No, it's not just a volume issue, there is a difference between Dolby Digital and True HD. It's much more dynamic. Still, no idea if that's full HD though. I don't think I'll ever know for sure. I just now the sound is more dynamic. You hear sounds you don't hear in the Dolby Digital track.

One thing I saw is that in the BV7->Sound->Sound System options, the input is PCM, but the output is Dolby Pro Logic, whether the PS3 is configured to Dolby Digital or True HD. Which now confuses me more. So, it's taking PCM in to the BS3 and outputting as Dolby Pro Logic, whatever the input?

Oh, I forgot to say that you can switch between the two formats on the PS3, with the in-movie pop-up menu, in Batman Begins, without leaving the movie. Hence why I was able to switch and watch the same sequence, in both formats.

moxxey:

Interesting. Just tested Batman Begins with True HD turned on using the PS3. It says 'Dolby TrueHD 5.1Ch. 48kHz 2.7 Mbps VC-1 14.2 Mbps' in the pop-up display.

If I switch back to Dolby 5.1, it says:  'Dolby Digital 5.1Ch. 48kHz 640Kbps VC-1 14.4 Mbps'

Erm, and the sound is much more defined using True HD over Dolby Digital, playing the same sequence (when the kid falls in to the well, at the beginning).

So....I can safely conclude that the BS3 DOES do something with the incoming True HD track and results in a better quality audio track.

But, does that mean proper support? Gawd this is going to go on for months!

 

I just did a similar test with 3:10 to Yuma, the second chapter which is a lengthy chase involving multiple horses running, stagecoach and gun fire along with the bullets striking metal. Switching in the middle of the scene from Dolby to uncompressed PCM resulted in an astonishing improvement in sound, immediately noticeable.

moxxey:

 

One thing I saw is that in the BV7->Sound->Sound System options, the input is PCM, but the output is Dolby Pro Logic, whether the PS3 is configured to Dolby Digital or True HD. Which now confuses me more. So, it's taking PCM in to the BS3 and outputting as Dolby Pro Logic, whatever the input?

.

On our BV7, when the Sony Blu-Ray is set to output PCM the BV7-Sound-Sound System options shows Multichannel PCM for both input and output. 

Oh the BS3 definitely supports uncompressed PCM, for sure. Also, that should be better than the basic Dolby Digital. However, uncompressed PCM isn't True HD, so you need to get yourself a True HD Blu-ray.

Another thing though, reading through those docs you posted, it seems that we WON'T get support for DTS-HD as that does require both HDMI 1.3 and bitstream support (lacking in the PS3). So, any Blu-ray that uses DTS-HD is not supported.

Razlaw:

On our BV7, when the Sony Blu-Ray is set to output PCM the BV7-Sound-Sound System options shows Multichannel PCM for both input and output. 

That's weird. The Sony PS3 is supposed to be the best Blu-ray player on the market (in terms of supported formats) and, as it can be updated via the Internet (just put the latest firmware on this morning), it has a major advantage over standard Blu-ray players.

Ah, maybe as the source is uncompressed PCM which the BS3 definitely supports and understands, so the output doesn't change? I'll try 3:10 Yuma later - I have that Blu-ray too.

Trying 3:10 Yuma now. Still says PCM as input and Dolby Pro Logic as the output, configured for uncompressed PCM 7.1. Sadly you have to stop/pause this film to switch tracks, whereas Batman Begins does it 'on the fly'.

BTW, people who aren't commenting on this thread must think we're freaks. I can hear Peter chuckling in the background right now..

Erm, one final thing. I notice in 3:10 that the movie playback Mbp/s goes DOWN when when you select uncompressed PCM as the bandwidth is used to send the audio track (at 6.1 Mbp/s)! Switch back to Dolby Digital and the movie Mbp/s goes back up.

Which means that you might see a slight visual deterioration when you choose uncompressed PCM as the bandwidth required over HDMI is greater for the audio track (as it isn't compressed at all).

moxxey:

Oh the BS3 definitely supports uncompressed PCM, for sure. Also, that should be better than the basic Dolby Digital. However, uncompressed PCM isn't True HD, so you need to get yourself a True HD Blu-ray.

Another thing though, reading through those docs you posted, it seems that we WON'T get support for DTS-HD as that does require both HDMI 1.3 and bitstream support (lacking in the PS3). So, any Blu-ray that uses DTS-HD is not supported.

We have a Sony Blu-Ray player. It however does not decode Dolby and DTS HD. However, uncompressed PCM is the same quality as Dolby TrueHD and DTS MAster HD. All three are exact copies of the original master. Dolby and DTS are merely ways to compress the PCM onto the disc to save space. We are waiting for the new Sony BDP-S550 to be released and our dealer will be exchanging for us.

Blu-ray Audio Formats Explained

Signal to Noise - Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD MA vs. Uncompressed PCM | Home Enterta

Why not just get a PS3? Superb multi-format DVD player, plus you can play the odd game, if you desire. It's cheap, too.

moxxey:

Razlaw, let's concentrate on the BS3 and get some hard facts. One thing I did read though was if your Blu-ray player can show the current "audio bitrate that would indicate which track is being decoded. DTS-HD HR is variable but should have bitrate >1.5Mbps and peaks much hihger. DTS "legacy" will be a flat 1.5Mbps CBR (constant bit rate)."

I would have thought that the Pixelworks chipset would support both audio and video. Their site seems to suggest it does. However, very limited public information on that site, sadly.

Anyone else? This is a time for The Stig and Beolab to step forward. Where is Beolab these days?

Hi Moxxey and Razlaw,

I'm putting up an excerpt from an earlier entry of mine, in this epic thread:

 If you use a Blu-ray player with a controller or AVR (receiver) that lacks the ability to decode these new formats, you simply connect the Blu-ray player to the controller or AVR through the familiar coaxial or TosLink jacks (or HDMI). The Blu-ray player will downconvert the new format to Dolby Digital datastream at 640kbps (an improvement over the 384kbps typically used on DVD.)
Of course, you won't realize the full benefits of the new audio formats, but the sound will be better than what's possible from DVD.

As the article states, you get improved sound, but not full HD-audio.

Dolby digital (SD) tops out at 384kbps, while the downconverted HD-audio is nearly twice that. That should be noticeable, as it means a doubling of the resolution of the channels, which are really down at poor DAB in standard DVD Dolby Digital.

===

BTW - I hope it says Dolby Pro Logic II or IIx, and not just Dolby Pro Logic? Look it up in Wikipedia for an explanation!

moxxey:

Why not just get a PS3? Superb multi-format DVD player, plus you can play the odd game, if you desire. It's cheap, too.

I want the player to fit in a BS1 cabinet. I did not think the PS 3 would fit.

soundproof:

BTW - I hope it says Dolby Pro Logic II or IIx

Yes, the latter (IIx).

Razlaw:

I want the player to fit in a BS1 cabinet. I did not think the PS 3 would fit.

The PS3 is about the same size as a DVD player and can stand horizontally or vertically.

soundproof:

 If you use a Blu-ray player with a controller or AVR (receiver) that lacks the ability to decode these new formats

But the PS3 can decode and play these formats, which is one key advantage of using the PS3 as a Blu-ray player?