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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 07-13-2008 10:10 PM by jk1002. 59 replies.
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  • 07-13-2008 1:30 PM In reply to

    • mason
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    • Posts 53
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Everything is different now ...

    Alex:

    I'm still intrigued RE the new 5 system. Apple may have provided amazing under-the-skin technology and of course were the first to truly adopt multi-touch displays properly, but as far as music goes, this hasn't massively changed browsing music. I mean sure it's iTunes but even better, but nobody as yet has produced a media-center which will give you a 'BeoCenter 2-esque' kind of interaction. I hope the big Bang can incorporate Apple into their digital-media scheme correctly.

    B&O + Apple = the perfect blend IMO

     

    Couldn't agree more 

  • 07-13-2008 1:38 PM In reply to

    Re: Everything is different now ...

    Beobird:
    What you think of the 890 is personal, but in my opinion it looks more classy with his alumium look compared to the plastic Iphone ! btw, the part: "you carry a phone and a music player" makes me a bit laugh, the W series stand for WALKMAN (you should know that) Big Smile. I use my A829 with Shure  gear for music onroad, because the quality is just the best in portable audio world Smile. On normal days I use the walkman function on the 890, and I just don't need more. 

     

    Fair enough.  I thought that since you mentioned you had both that you used them separately like some people.

     

    If you don't need UMTS then you could get an original model iPhone... no plastic and I suspect they're going for cheap these days ;-)

  • 07-13-2008 1:43 PM In reply to

    • Alex
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • Bath & Cardiff, UK
    • Posts 2,990
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Everything is different now ...

    I carry a Sony Ericsson W910i with me, which is a good phone, and is great in terms of MP3/portable music players, but my Nano completely wipes the floor with it - I couldn't use the W910i as an MP3 player after having owned an iPod.

     Weekly top artists:                   

  • 07-13-2008 2:08 PM In reply to

    • ®
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-01-2007
    • UK
    • Posts 970
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    Re: Everything is different now ...

    Today I am re-importing my CD's in Apple Lossless rather than Mp3. Apple has won the war for digital music. Its time to embrace Apple products if you haven't already.
  • 07-13-2008 2:17 PM In reply to

    Re: Everything is different now ...

    Alex, I hope that B&O make a Beocenter 2 device that integrates iTunes functions.  We have been talking about the iPhone but Apple has even bigger plans.  There is a new iPod touch coming as well as a rumored iPod touch with a larger screen.

    I don't use the new remote app for controlling iTunes on my Mac.  I use it mostly for controlling the Apple TV and it does scroll through all the music on the Apple TV with cover art.  The Apple TV besides being connected to the TV is also connect to a dac which in turn is connected to my Beocenter 2.  I have a link setup in a bedroom and I can remotely play music from the Apple TV using the same iPhone remote.  It does what has been described for the Beocenter 5 plus movies.  The remote app is free.  Expect soon, this will also include photos, radio, and much more.

    I already have a Beomedia 1 and would find it difficult to justify purchasing a Beocenter 5.  However as a dedicated Beophile, I might change my mind. 

    Beosound 5 BL9 BC2 BL8000 Beovision 7 BL6002  BL11 

     

  • 07-13-2008 2:51 PM In reply to

    Re: Everything is different now ...

    I'm not sold yet. The idea that my iPhone could ever replace my computer or any component of my audio system still seems far-fetched. Though I marvel at my iPhone's capabilities and am a die-hard mac user (typing this on a MacBook Air), there are still too many hurdles.

    The applications that SoundProof described are fantastic, but most applications are gimmicks at best. For example, I started using a system called Evernote today with my new iPhone software. I'm able to take pictures, recordings, jot notes, type notes, etc. and the software will recognize text within photographs and words within sound recordings. It will then tag them for indexing and search. This sounds stunning, but trying to use it is the more complex than simply borrowing a pen, writing something on a scrap of paper, and sticking it into my wallet for entry later. While the interface is light-years ahead of competing smartphones or PDAs, it's still not on par with a scrap of paper. My favorite analogy would be where NASA spent millions of dollars developing a pen that would write upside down and the Russians used a pencil.

    As for the AV specifics, whatever my iPhone can do as a remote, it can only do with the song files stored in my iTunes store. It can't play a CD sitting in my computer, it can't play FM, AM, HD, or Satellite Radio. Additionally, the sound quality of music that I purchase online is awful. If you have BeoLab 4s, maybe you're fine, but when I play a song purchased from the iTunes music store on my speakers at home it's so unsatisfying I wouldn't even bother.

    My original complaint about the iPhone still stands. As a phone it's brilliant, but as an iPod and now as a remote, it's lacking. It requires two hands and two eyes to interface with it. Even with my Beo 5 I can just tap through songs in playlists when I'm in a room with no TVs.

    Bang & Olufsen certainly doesn't have it completely right either. The link system is the most stable in the industry, but that stability has began to affect flexibility now that "soft sources" are coming online and cannot be dealt with as easily as a disc or a broadcast station. Sorting and searching were never sophisticated actions until digital media was introduced and Bang & Olufsen has yet to offer a potent alternative to the standard methedology currently at work in most media devices. They simply redesign the GUI to look like a Bang & Olufsen product; which is great, but insufficient. 

    The BeoSound 5 is the big question mark. It could theoretically address many of my concerns as to the merging of Apple integration and Bang & Olufsen build & performance quality, but even after having my hands on it, there are many things that still aren't clear. I guess we'll have to meet back here in November and see what the verdict is.  

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

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  • 07-13-2008 3:52 PM In reply to

    Re: Everything is different now ...

    Trip,

    I don't think anyone is trying to sell you on anything.  iPhone, iTunes, iPod and others are moving in a direction that B&O will be hard pressed to follow. I never buy any music in the iTunes store because I buy the CDs from Amazon and rip them at the lossless rate. Lossless sounds just like the original CD whether its played from iTunes or even Beomedia 1 which requires MS lossless.  The CDs then go into a box in storage.  I have purchased some downloaded music from Amazon and they sound fairly good.

    I looked at Evernote and agree it is really clumsy but hey its free on the iPhone. 

    For listening to the radio on the iPhone, I am using the AOL radio app which is free and Tuner which is not free.  They both work real well.  I have tried several of the apps and they need work but they are all 1.0 versions.  At this point it is kind of like beta testing. 

    We have these conversation periodically and I am sure that some people are really tired of this topic.  Maybe B&O reads these discussions and understands things are changing. It is not just loudspeakers, TVs, and amplifiers anymore.  Bang and Olufsen is a world leader in design and digital amplifiers which I believe works in their favor.

    My real opinion is B&O will never embrace anything Apple no matter how much I would like that to happen.

    Don't be too sure that the CD player in a Mac can't be controlled remotely.  I have a MacBook Air and I do exactly that.  I also agree that an iPhone cannot replace a laptop especially on a business trip.  For a quick trip when I only need email, I leave the laptop at home and only use the iPhone for email.

    My wife wants to try the iPhone app called Loopt.  It can track your movements by GPS.  I am going to try and talk her out of that one.  I don't want to be tracked.

    Regards, 

     

     

    Beosound 5 BL9 BC2 BL8000 Beovision 7 BL6002  BL11 

     

  • 07-13-2008 4:55 PM In reply to

    Re: Everything is different now ...

    bno had their chance and went ms

     look what happened 

     embrace the future or end up redundant 

    popgear is grate™

  • 07-13-2008 5:04 PM In reply to

    Re: Everything is different now ...

    Track you movements!? I don't blame you, Linder!

    As often as we have these debates, I think something new always bubbles to the surface. Especially now when software and soft sources can be developed at a rate physical peripherals never could.

    One really good point discussed in this thread is the virtual link system that Airport Express allows with the iPhone app. As a retailer, the BeoLink Wireless has always been a frustrating product because it's so tempermental and often disagrees with other wireless equipment. We generally use it as a last resort, but the future is obviously wireless.

    It seems to me (maybe someone more technical could shed a better light) that using the existing Wi-Fi network instead of erecting our own could offer a much more stable and flexible solution. The capabilities are already there as many of us have already seen. If I could have total control over my B&O sources as well as the content organized in iTunes using just Airport Expresses & software on the iPhone, that would be great, but if we were to build a series of interfaces that could do the iPhone's job with a bit more panache, that would be even better!

    It seems like there's a lot of food for thought here, I just hope it agrees with the Danish pallet.

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 07-13-2008 5:06 PM In reply to

    Re: Everything is different now ...

    I have to agree with Flappo. As precious as some of our concepts are, they can't fool the market. There's someone doing it better.

    Beat 'em or join 'em.

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 07-13-2008 5:07 PM In reply to

    • 9 LEE
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    • Joined on 02-14-2007
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    Re: Everything is different now ...

    Flappo and Trip teaming up?! Merciless, incisive and informative!!

    Soundproof - what have you done? Laughing

    Lee

    Big Smile 

     

    BeoWorld - Everything Bang & Olufsen

  • 07-13-2008 6:15 PM In reply to

    Re: Everything is different now ...

    I have wonderful music coming out of BL4000, BL3 and BL5 speakers, in different rooms. I totally enjoy my BeoVision 8 - nobody could build anything like it, it's all B&O.
    The fact that Apple is creating a new standard for playback of digital content should just be embraced, I think - it's all playing through my B&O products. What B&O should do is make certain that their hardware treats this digital content in the best way possible, through loudspeakers, screens and video/audio processors that are matchless.

    Should be exciting times ahead! And Trip and Flappo joining forces must mean we're ready to roll ...

  • 07-13-2008 6:20 PM In reply to

    • Alex
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    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • Bath & Cardiff, UK
    • Posts 2,990
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    Re: Everything is different now ...

    WiFi isn't a flexible enough solution, but digital distribution is the way forwards.

    The issue with WiFi is it's unreliability, and that's why Apple's system has a large delay, which isn't suitable for a multi-purpose link system like BeoLink.

     Weekly top artists:                   

  • 07-13-2008 10:09 PM In reply to

    Re: Everything is different now ...

    The Wifi route has limits, i live in a small 25 unit condo building and count between 10 and 12 wireless networks at any time. i know there is a limit which I think we hit when the building next door goes up.

     

    In regards to the ATV and Iremote or whatever it is called, it does not get me off the couch. I do have ATV but the HD is way to small to handle a reasonable amount of movies and lossless CDs. my NAS can't stream to it due to the code protection. Sonos and friends work here.

    i just don't see Apple driving something in a 20$K TV & Stereo setup. This is where B&O has it's place. I just hope they understand that a 2 way remote is key and do not mess this up with BS5 and BM5. If both are just a multi room concept, I will pass and may just settle on a mini mac with Ipod Touch.

      

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 07-13-2008 10:10 PM In reply to

    Re: Everything is different now ...

    And one more thing, many CDs I have do not have a cover in Itunes. This makes the Ipod Remote look way less sexy. maybe I dedicated a rainy weekend in autumn.

     

     

     

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 07-13-2008 10:24 PM In reply to

    Re: Everything is different now ...

    @Trip

    I think we all want the 2 way remote and I am getting antsy that BS5 is not providing that. My fear is, that it is not just much more then a multi room distribution system for digital content. Which we have to today with BM1 as long as link TVs are present. If they offer multiple frontends, which I understand they will at a later point I don't think they get the break through launch they were hoping for. I just don't think there is a huge market for that, I think the market is there only in combination with a  2 way remote which goes beyond what Apple offers for the masses with their application. Give me a Sonos system that matches my B&O setup and I would be happy. 

    JK

     

     

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 07-14-2008 4:13 AM In reply to

    • Alex
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-23-2007
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    • Bronze Member

    Re: Everything is different now ...

    This shows me that Apple is heading toward consumer electronics market and its only a matter of time, when we will get a by Apple designed TV and Audiosystems. Maybe even intelligent network speakers. This will happen without doubt. 
  • 07-14-2008 6:15 AM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: Everything is different now ...

    Me being a sceptic, I can't help but think we are getting a little carried away here. While I don't want to start a MS/Symbian/Apple slanging match (Flappo behaveSmile) we need to look at what we now have that we didn't/couldn't have before.

    There were remote applications for other devices , there is probably better equiped hardware (if not out there at least imminent).

    Will all those folk that queued to buy one use it's remote control facilities or (the vast majority) of the separtately available apps - I doubt it, A huge number queued to have the latest and greatest gadget to be seen with and would drop it in a heartbeat if something cooler or more newsworthy came along tomorrow.

     What we do have is an OK design (it was revolutionary with the iPod but is beginning to age), the first significant application of touch technology (which is now available to everyone) and Apple's marketing/hype machine.

    I feel it is the latter that has excelled here. I don't doubt many of Soundproof's claims about future trends in music control etc. but will the iPhone or the iPod Touch be the only solution - I doubt it.

    Don't be too harsh, I'm a nice chap reallyWink

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 07-14-2008 7:12 AM In reply to

    Re: Everything is different now ...

    TripEnglish:
     My favorite analogy would be where NASA spent millions of dollars developing a pen that would write upside down and the Russians used a pencil.

     

    You mean the one that isn't true?  http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp 

  • 07-14-2008 7:15 AM In reply to

    Re: Everything is different now ...

    Alex:
    This shows me that Apple is heading toward consumer electronics market and its only a matter of time, when we will get a by Apple designed TV and Audiosystems. Maybe even intelligent network speakers. This will happen without doubt. 

     

    And if so they'll be twice as good and half as expensive as anything B&O is putting out.  I love my B&O stuff but they're not exactly putting out cutting edge stuff with any kind of expediency.  It's still shocking that for the Mac users with Beoport, they link to a guy in Sweden who makes the scripts in his spare time.  And how much did we pay for that thing?

  • 07-14-2008 8:00 AM In reply to

    Re: Everything is different now ...

    I totally agree, dilznik. B&O have never comprehended the brand overlap that exists between B&O and Mac customers, and the latter have always been treated more as an annoyance than as a serious market - to B&O's loss, I'm convinced.

    I can't agree with Puncher above. This is not hype - this is disruptive technology and will become the de facto platform for playback of music and video. Having been a Mac customer for ages I am quite clever at spotting their hype, if anything, they have undersold the iPhone and iPod Touch capabilities that are emerging -- probably to be able to get enough units out there before the competition realises what's happening and comes up with an alternative.

    What Apple has done is create a chain from the developers of content all the way to the consumer, placing all the content at the user's beck and call - in superconvenient fashion. Yesterday my daughter wanted to watch Definitely Maybe using AppleTV. She chose the film, it began downloading, and she was watching it within two minutes -- booking the film, paying for it, loading it to the computer and initiating playback was all sorted with two-three clicks of the remote. That can't be hype - it's real. And the fact that I can now control all my purchased and transferred (from CDs, etc.) content with my iPhone or iPod Touch is unbeatable.

    All you need from your Mac setup is an hdmi-cable, or an optical and DVI cable, going to your B&O. Hide the Mac stuff, if you want - but you won't find another media centre on earth that delivers similar performance, no matter the price you're willing to pay, seriously.

  • 07-14-2008 8:12 AM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: Everything is different now ...

    My point was more aimed at the (mis)understanding that the arrival of the 3G iPhone has suddenly enabled and released this, until now, new, unseen world. It hasn't, the world was there all along, available to those underground explorers who were willing to fight to get there. What has happened is that Apple have pointed it out it's existence to those that didn't know while selling them a vehicle to get there.

    While I'm not saying this is a bad thing, I still maintain the iPhone is a triumph of marketing.

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 07-14-2008 8:17 AM In reply to

    • Alex
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    Re: Everything is different now ...

    Puncher:

    Me being a sceptic, I can't help but think we are getting a little carried away here. While I don't want to start a MS/Symbian/Apple slanging match (Flappo behaveSmile) we need to look at what we now have that we didn't/couldn't have before.

    There were remote applications for other devices , there is probably better equiped hardware (if not out there at least imminent).

    Will all those folk that queued to buy one use it's remote control facilities or (the vast majority) of the separtately available apps - I doubt it, A huge number queued to have the latest and greatest gadget to be seen with and would drop it in a heartbeat if something cooler or more newsworthy came along tomorrow.

     What we do have is an OK design (it was revolutionary with the iPod but is beginning to age), the first significant application of touch technology (which is now available to everyone) and Apple's marketing/hype machine.

    I feel it is the latter that has excelled here. I don't doubt many of Soundproof's claims about future trends in music control etc. but will the iPhone or the iPod Touch be the only solution - I doubt it.

    Don't be too harsh, I'm a nice chap reallyWink

    Of course the iPod Touch and iPhone won't be the only solution, but look at what happened with the original iPod.

    The iPhone design is still streets ahead of other similar 'touch' devices on the market IMO (don't think this includes the Beo5, a completely different concept o.f.c), and while it's all well and good looking at hardware, you're forgetting that Apple is primarily a Software company, and this is where their strength lies.

     Weekly top artists:                   

  • 07-14-2008 8:30 AM In reply to

    Re: Everything is different now ...

    I agree that we already had this system - I was using it. However the Apple system is quicker and neater and allows me to listen to music throughout the house, choosing from my entire library. I can, if I want, listen to music at the highest quality and not have the mindless search through playlists or even CD racks that I needed to do before. I have found myself listening more thanks to this. As a remote for controlling my music through my B&O system, the iPod Touch has no equal. I am afraid the Beo5 is destined to remain a paperweight.
     

  • 07-14-2008 8:33 AM In reply to

    Re: Everything is different now ...

    Puncher:

    My point was more aimed at the (mis)understanding that the arrival of the 3G iPhone has suddenly enabled and released this, until now, new, unseen world. It hasn't, the world was there all along, available to those underground explorers who were willing to fight to get there. What has happened is that Apple have pointed it out it's existence to those that didn't know while selling them a vehicle to get there.

    While I'm not saying this is a bad thing, I still maintain the iPhone is a triumph of marketing.

    Then I was unclear in my opening post: the iPhone and iPod Touch provide a very nice interaction with your content, but the ability to organise it, in various ways, is not necessarily new.

    However - Apple has developed the organising software: iTunes; created the OS; has developed the best codecs for sound and image; has created a connection to content suppliers, who provide files in accordance with those codecs; has created wireless connectivity for the playback of the same; has created a dedicated mediacentre - AppleTV - which makes ordering, storing and playback of the content even more convenient -- and tops it of with providing a fast and simple, free, remote control application which gives you two-way control of your content, existing and that you wish to purchase.

    And the fact that there are now thousands of people writing applications for a device as powerful as the iPhone is going to lead to some surprising and unpredictable new products.

    That's all quite a set of tangibles, I think. But I've been waiting for the one thing that will get people to go "I must have that" -- and this is the Remote control function, it makes it incredibly ease to select, direct and control your digital content.

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