I think I said earlier (when the original question was being discussed) that I believe that the B&O link system has seen better days and the time may have come to abandon it in favour of something much more capable - (in the best B&O tradition they can sell an awkward little converter box that needs to be hidden somewhere to communicate with legacy equipment).

Other manufacturers are already selling TV's with Ethernet connections for internet connection/networking etc. If B&O don't do something soon all that will be left will be the sexy styling and exotic materials - the best picture award and the conectivity/linking award will have gone elsewhere.

The days of MX's and Avants versus anonymous grey boxes have gone and a lot of current flat panel TV's from mass manufacturers are good looking. 

I too therefore find the current asking prices far too high for what they are offering - maybe only the top 2-3% can afford it but then maybe the remaining 97% have more sense.

I'm not known to throwing in my 10 pence worth on these discussion threads, but today, I will make an exception.

Beoworld has seen this discussion revisited quite a number of times over the last couple of years and it amazes me that members still feel the need to discuss it.

It is apparent to all concerned, even the ladies and gentlemen in Struer that something is amiss and you can be sure that they are working hard to solve the technical and commercial issues that are being faced.

But my question to you all is, what good is griping going to do?  If you want to see something different, if you have ideas as to how to improve or change the situation, then please share it here ... you can be sure that the Danes are listening.

Do something positive today :)

Neil

beolife:

I have read this thread with interest but I feel I now must comment, I too am very disappointed by some of the personal attacks on Trip English by other forum members.

I feel that these attacks will only harm the forum as others will view this site as being petty & petulant at the merest disagreement, I was under the impression that this site was to celebrate B&O. so please let keep things civil as our voice may not be heard next time.

Back to Trip, I do think that Trip is probably treading either a company line or even worse a corporate line & has maybe been brainwashed into thinking this is how the brand should be sold.
We've all been into a upmarket car showroom looking around only to get the brush off as we may not fit their mould as a potential client that they have drummed into them at a sales course.

I also agree with Trip on some of his points as unpalatable as they maybe to some, I am going to leave it there as this was after all a thread about B&O TV Why.

Me personally will be purchasing a BV7-40 in the near future as it ticks all the boxes for me & our home where it will be used as a TV for the children in our playroom/cinema but also as my escape zone for watching films & sport on the big screen. Yes they are a lot of money but as a previous poster said before they are also a thing of beauty to behold when not in use & the build quality is top notch & in this day and age of throw away society that is a rare commodity.

So I guess that all in all as with anything that you purchase it is a decision that you make based on your own circumstances, needs & wants & last but by no means least your personal experience of the product & brand.

Simon

very interesting post this!  Trip is in fact following the company line that existed 2 years ago

About three years ago it became clear that the audio and video business would converge and that traditional stand alone audio would diminish Most upmarket brands at the time realised this and took measures to control costs.

The B&O line to dealers was- this isnt consumer electronics, its about quality, to appeal to the higher society , one has to sell it in the same way as LV, Aston Martin or Ferrari- our customers dont care about pricing- after all you can buy a nissan micra for £6000 but a ferrari is still £140,000.

The dealers fell for it and of course had no option but to buy the products from B&O and ever increasing prices, the bv9, bv4, bl9 ect and this was excellent news for B&O and the balance sheet as it appeared they were immune from any downturn- but it was a mirage

Problem was dealers could not sell the losses they incurred on selling outdated models meant that the few sales that were achieved were not profitable.

You can fool some of the poeple - some of the time and the dealers realised that the company had led them down a slippery slope and they could not pay the bills to B&O.

The reality now is that the business as it stands now - with pricing and products is not in a position to support the dealer network as it once was and over 60% of dealers will have to go. It doesnt look good to see closing down stickers on the windows of dealers so ' the takeover plan' seems a good idea!!

This means i think in the UK we will probably have 15 dealers rather than one on every corner.

Peter :

I must confess to being disappointed by this thread. I agree that what Trip wrote doesn't fit with my idea of B&O but we all write posts where we exaggerate our stance for effect and take it to extremes as part of a debate. I believe that is what has occurred here. By all means shoot the message but personal attacks are simply unpleasant and the hounding of individuals on this site is most unwelcome. Debate is good - some responses on this thread are well thought out and hence my not stopping this thread, but I have come close.

We are fortunate to have a broad church on Beoworld and I value the contributions made by Trip and his loss from this forum would in my view be detrimental - so remember  - attack the message, not the messenger.

Peter,

        should the messenger not bear some responsibility for the language in which his message is couched?

One can debate the premises that one has to be over a certain age(an earlier thread),in the top 2/3% demographic,to appreciate B & O,but to couch them in a manner that can be construed as a "put down" to an earlier poster will surely invite personal criticism.

TerryM:

Peter :

I must confess to being disappointed by this thread. I agree that what Trip wrote doesn't fit with my idea of B&O but we all write posts where we exaggerate our stance for effect and take it to extremes as part of a debate. I believe that is what has occurred here. By all means shoot the message but personal attacks are simply unpleasant and the hounding of individuals on this site is most unwelcome. Debate is good - some responses on this thread are well thought out and hence my not stopping this thread, but I have come close.

We are fortunate to have a broad church on Beoworld and I value the contributions made by Trip and his loss from this forum would in my view be detrimental - so remember  - attack the message, not the messenger.

Peter,

        should the messenger not bear some responsibility for the language in which his message is couched?

One can debate the premises that one has to be over a certain age(an earlier thread),in the top 2/3% demographic,to appreciate B & O,but to couch them in a manner that can be construed as a "put down" to an earlier poster will surely invite personal criticism.

Agree but same has to be said on TripEnglish' detractors. Some of the language used against him was really improper, not only to him but also to those of us buying B&O TVs. We should respect everyone's opinions and share them in constructive way no mater how hot or debatable the post is.

I have no problem with people disagreeing with Trip - I disagree with him! I will not however indulge in personal attacks but will disagree with the message. Trying to belittle the message by attacking the poster personally  is an ad hominem attack and doesn't further the discussion, only causes offense. I am sure Trip has no problem with people disagreeing with him or indeed the way he put his point but has every right to object to personal comments.

The problem with the internet is that one can post quickly and without seeing the other correspondent and this can lead to heated debates which would not occur in a face to face encounter. None the less, I think this has been as useful thread. 

What a great thread....I'm more of a reader here than a poster (you might guess this from my post count)....But very few 4 page threads keep me going all the way through..!!

This forum is about debate, and it should be encouraged. If Trip feels he can no longer post because of some of the replys he's getting, that is a sad day...Agree or disagree with what is being said, but don't flame...

I'm sure we all of us will write things we look back on and think...hmmmm. But I'm also sure none of us are here to 'put down' anyone else on this forum, if that IS the intention then that what Peters here for. But let's try and keep the debates hot, it generates passion and provokes debate (which is why I for one am here).

B&O for me??...just a few of MANY reasons:

it's about buying a brand new TV and being able to plug it into my 15 year old Beosystem 2500 and it works...perfectly....

it's about phoning my dealer and asking to borrow a 6k TV for a month just to see if I like it...Who then delivers it, and picks it back up when I'm done...£0.

it's about plugging an AppleTV into my TV, getting the firmware on the BV9 updated and then ditching the apple remote....

it's about buying a Beolab 3500, plugging a ML cable into it and being able to listen it anything on it.

it's about knowing that if I have a problem with ANYTHING AV related, I have one number to call and it's sorted.

I purchasing a BV9 pretty early on...I think the picture is STUNNING.... I'm not interested in new panels or latest technology.....I love what I have, and am not planning on even looking at another TV for at least 5-10 years...(unless holograms turn up somewhere). I had an Avant before that, and the next TV I buy I would expect to be just as big a technology jump.

It's not just the product, it's the whole experience, and the dealer is also key to this. This is why I'll always look at B&O first, and to be honest, probably only ever buy B&O (assuming there still around(!)).

This for me is B&O. I do think there prices are to high, but I also think the build quality is simply not found anywhere else.
F.

BTW: these are just my opinions and don't represent fact in any way, I'll apologies in advance for any pain or hurt I may have causes anyone in writting this post, it was not intentional). Please also note that a spell checker (or gramma pass) has not been used on this post, so if smelling pistakes casue you any injury, I also appologeeez. Smile.. the sun is out!

Beeanowefreak:

What a great thread....I'm more of a reader here than a poster (you might guess this from my post count)....But very few 4 page threads keep me going all the way through..!!

This forum is about debate, and it should be encouraged. If Trip feels he can no longer post because of some of the replys he's getting, that is a sad day...Agree or disagree with what is being said, but don't flame...

I'm sure we all of us will write things we look back on and think...hmmmm. But I'm also sure none of us are here to 'put down' anyone else on this forum, if that IS the intention then that what Peters here for. But let's try and keep the debates hot, it generates passion and provokes debate (which is why I for one am here).

B&O for me??...just a few of MANY reasons:

it's about buying a brand new TV and being able to plug it into my 15 year old Beosystem 2500 and it works...perfectly....

it's about phoning my dealer and asking to borrow a 6k TV for a month just to see if I like it...Who then delivers it, and picks it back up when I'm done...£0.

it's about plugging an AppleTV into my TV, getting the firmware on the BV9 updated and then ditching the apple remote....

it's about buying a Beolab 3500, plugging a ML cable into it and being able to listen it anything on it.

it's about knowing that if I have a problem with ANYTHING AV related, I have one number to call and it's sorted.

I purchasing a BV9 pretty early on...I think the picture is STUNNING.... I'm not interested in new panels or latest technology.....I love what I have, and am not planning on even looking at another TV for at least 5-10 years...(unless holograms turn up somewhere). I had an Avant before that, and the next TV I buy I would expect to be just as big a technology jump.

It's not just the product, it's the whole experience, and the dealer is also key to this. This is why I'll always look at B&O first, and to be honest, probably only ever buy B&O (assuming there still around(!)).

This for me is B&O. I do think there prices are to high, but I also think the build quality is simply not found anywhere else.
F.

BTW: these are just my opinions and don't represent fact in any way, I'll apologies in advance for any pain or hurt I may have causes anyone in writting this post, it was not intentional). Please also note that a spell checker (or gramma pass) has not been used on this post, so if smelling pistakes casue you any injury, I also appologeeez. Smile.. the sun is out!

Agree 100% with this post!

BTW: these are just my opinions and don't represent fact in any way, I'll apologies in advance for any pain or hurt I may have causes anyone in writting this post, it was not intentional). Please also note that a spell checker (or gramma pass) has not been used on this post, so if smelling pistakes casue you any injury, I also appologeeez. Smile.. the sun is out!

Funny this last paragraph from Beeanowefreak as this is extactly what I did do spell check everything whereas normally I don't spell ckheck anything Like now

Well, take a couple of days off, and look what I return too!  I imagine that Trip has been hoping for the cavalry to ride over the hilltop for days now!  ;-)  I'm not sure about saving him, but I can't let him just swing in the wind.  Some of his language has been a bit harsh, but melodrama, theatricality, and sarcasm are all difficult to pass along on the page smoetimes.  Allow me to analogise:  (Oh no, not another car analogy!)

My former roommate, Tom (newlydad) and his father, both work with the Mercedes-Benz owner's association here in the Washington, DC area.  Tom used to run their autocrosses and track days.  New daughter has gotten in the way this spring...but I digress.  I have attended several of these meets over the years, and here is what I see...a group of firendly, competitive folks dedicated to getting the absolute most enjoyment out of using their cars for ONE of the many tasle for which they were built.  Best example for this discussion is a married couple who bring 2 cars, one a late '70's estate/wagon and an early 70's 6.3 sedan.  They both use the 6.3...so why the wagon?  Why to carry the track-only racing tiyres, and the jack-stands and other paraphenalia needet to get the 6.3 ready for it's day.  These are the types of people who will closely follow what M-B does with its modern cars, and ppreciate them, and criticise them when they make a 'mistake.'  For instance, finally giving up recirculating-ball steering for the more 'advanced' rack & pinion not so many years ago.  Why?  Because you can adjust on-center feel, and turn-in on the 'ball', but not the rack.

 I pose for you this question: are these people M-B's target group?  No, not really.  Many of them can afford new M-B's many of them bring them and race them.  They all love the brand, and appreciate what the cars can do at the limit.  But they are not the thousands of Doctors, Lawyers, and their wives who purchase these cars for their everyday utility.  I think that we, here at BeoWorld, are much more closely associated with those sun-burnt nutjobs hooning about on weekends with the big grins on their faces.  M-B's target market, can afford the cars, but they simply can't afford the TIME needed to tweak the tipre pressures, fiddle witth the carburetors, ans adjust the rebound on their shock absorbers...they need to hop in, twist the key, and get to work, or the child's soccer match.  Class, taste and money are, at best, secondary images.  In providing an integrated solution, which I think is really more compatible than is often acknowledged here, B&O hope to provide a simple, elegant, turn-key system intended for people who have the money, the inclination, and the apprciation...but perhaps not the TIME....

Russ

Spell Check free, 'cause I'm not on my Mac at home.

355f:

This means i think in the UK we will probably have 15 dealers rather than one on every corner.

Totally agree with this, one of the biggest mistakes B&O made was to increase the number of retail outlets across the world to an unhealthy amount.. while competition is good and healthy, do you really need two maybe three retailers in one area of a niche specialst product/market?

Interesting thread... have to say that corporate greed may well be the root cause of the B&Os woes today but most if not all are guilty of this but the cycle clearly is ending and all are looking in the same direction and it does not look good...