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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012

This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012


Latest post 05-07-2008 2:51 PM by mobeyone. 86 replies.
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  • 05-06-2008 1:15 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O TV Why?


    I'm not here to take you on. I tend to leave women with mustaches alone!

    I don't mind a debate, but lets avoid the school-yard "your spelling, my capitalization thing" I'm sorry I even got into it with you.

    btw, Peter, what is Flappo talking about? Are BeoWorld posters going "missing"? 

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 05-06-2008 1:22 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O TV Why?

    as i said , i'm glad you're not my dealer

    your attitude to your potential customer leaves much to be desired 

    then again , the way things are going , this time next year you may very well be on the dole

    what a/v system would you recommend then ? 


    popgear is grate™

  • 05-06-2008 1:24 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O TV Why?

    well now that there has been some back-pedaling as seems to always be the case...

    i think we all should re-read lee's post (#4) on the first page of this thread. in my opinion, it sums this entire thread up perfectly.

    i think the fundamental issue (discounting all that has been discussed: money / technology / features / design, etc...) is that b&o has simply lost its ability to captivate like they used to.

    i do not think that is completely their fault. today, moreso than any other time, all a/v technology is advancing so rapidly, that smaller companies simply don't have the leg-strength to carry on w/o some fundamental changes. sadly, b&o is paying the price for their current line-up as we speak.

    i just hope that the new ceo can turn things around and regain that "captivation" that brought us all together in this forum in the first place.

    • B&o bottle opener
  • 05-06-2008 1:28 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O TV Why?


    Nothing, I guess. I'd be too busy trying to find sandwiches in the trash. The welfare system in the US won't do me much good.

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 05-06-2008 1:32 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O TV Why?

    I find Trip's statements as getting very near to offensive.

    I work hard, I don't get paid anywhere near the top 20%, but I am prepared to save for a long time and build up a system. It is folk such as myself that spread the word, the values that are passed on from one generation to another, to inspire sons and daughters to look beyond the ordinary and the mundane - if you lose one B&O customer, you are likely to lose their families - it really does pass on from father to son.

    Merely having plenty of money does not mean you have taste, my background is in electronic engineering, and I appreciate the union of two almost contradictory philosophies, functionality and style, and B&O has been almost the only brand that could exemplify those ideals.

    It seems that Trip is almost saying "you can't afford it so run along now and go somewhere else", without appreciating that folk such as myself have an aesthetic stake in the future of B&O but we are remorselessly being priced out of it - and yet I amongst some others on this board, probably have a better technical understanding of what the brand is about.

    I know that some things will always be out of reach, that's life, but I would hate to think that access to B&O would be one of them, yet in some ways this is slowly but surely happening.

     Trip, is your point of debate about outpricing everyone so just the very few can get on board? because if I had that sort of income, I can spend squillions of stupid money and obtain far better sound reproduction, I could chase after ghosts of promised but unquantifiable benefits, just as the rich person with little taste might do.

     ...or would you prefer a customer who is an enthusiast - ideally you'd want an enthusiast who has the income - but such folk are looking toward other things, they look at a whole life package and wonder if B&O has lost its way, and does not seem to understand this age of digital media.

    Sure B&O have come up with some ideas, but it seems to have left the charisma behind somewhere and its this last quality that it really must rediscover if it is to compete, its charisma which is the reason for B&O and this is the unique selling point.

     I think your comments are disrespectful, its as if folk such as myself who have to try hard are not wanted, as if a couple of years struggle to save up are somehow less worthy than the city trader walking in the door with part of his annual bonus in his hand.

    I see Beoworld members pictures of their home set ups with maybe just a tinge of envy, and although I have little else in common, at least I know we do have something that unites us and its quite hurtful to know that a dealer seems to view me in such low regard as to measure me solely by income instead of the values that I hold.

     I also seriously doubt that this is the way B&O should go if it wishes to grace our homes in the future.

  • 05-06-2008 1:42 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O TV Why?


    You've totally misunderstood my points. All of them, in fact. I went out of my way to stipulate that money and taste do not always coincide and I have always said people should save for what they truly want. It is guys like you that I'm defending here!

    Your appreciation is based on a personal and intimate level. It is clients like you who keep us in business. What I am saying is that people who want our products to be more like mainstream electronics should pull up stakes and move along. Not people who can't afford it.

    (Hell, I can't afford BeoLab 5s, but I still talk to myself   yuk, yuk)

    I wish we were all having a pint somewhere. There'd probably be less confusion over everyone's intentions (though it would give Flappo the opportunity to strangle me with a piano wire!). As many here may recall, I temporarily replaced my avatar with a basket of kittens to soften my image a bit because I want to continue to passionately argue my points, but not at peoples' expense. The points I make are essentially against the point of view that Bang & Olufsen should reflect the same priorities as a mass market product. As far as more rational criticism, like whether we should be in the mobile phone business or whether the BeoVision 8 should have more connectivity (yes), that's a whole other debate.

    This thread has just spiraled out of control because of the way the original post was phrased giving "haters" the scent of blood.  

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 05-06-2008 1:57 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O TV Why?

    actually , your attitude is what's at fault here , you were very rude and condescending towards people who have much love for a brand they hold in very high regard , often passed down by generation to generation

    loyalty is something that cannot have a price put upon it

    how sad it it is to know the price of everything but the value of nothing alienate your user base is the most heinous crime of all

    i'm a rabid mac head , so i DO know what i'm on aboot :) 

    bno need all the help they can get in the next few years and a so called defender of the faith acting in such a way to us 'plebs' isn't what i would call particularly endearing

    popgear is grate™

  • 05-06-2008 2:01 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O TV Why?

    I would be grateful if we can keep this thread civilised. I disagree with what Trip says but he has an opinion and has voiced it in a reasoned fashion as he is entitled to do. He should not be criticised for spelling or grammar - we all make mistakes when typing and such attacks are mean spirited.

    As I stated before, the problem B&O has is trying to keep up in a changing world. I do agree with some sentiments that Trip states - what is a good picture does not become dreadful overnight - but as performance improves, one can see where improvements are needed. The first of the LCD screens were pretty poor and didn't measure up to the CRTs they were replacing. That is no longer the case.  

    I could afford any B&O TV I want but I don't feel that they offer me value so I am staying with what I have. I don't want another make though so will simply wait until I feel that they do offer what I want or I have no choice.  I would say that I am a not untypical B&O customer as I have a good income and buy goods on the basis of quality rather than specifications. I buy Church shoes, I have an automatic watch, I also have a number of expensive fountain pens and when I buy any of these or any other type of goods, I am happy to pay a premium to get what I want. I am however not an idiot, and I am not willing to pay a premium of ten times for a broadly similar product. B&O have slipped recently - Beolink in its various forms has now been around for many years and is still waiting to be updated. Sending video signals as RF through the system is simply outdated and the lack of two way communication when dealing with digital music collections is laughable. I have a Beo5 - and a very nice paperweight it is!

    On the subject of posters leaving, the poster in question left at his own request. I think continually bringing this up is completely unnecessary and reflects very badly on the person doing so who I do not regard as completely blameless in the preceding events. I would be grateful if that person would desist as this adds nothing to the forum. I also suggest that any more flaming will be regarded as unacceptable.

  • 05-06-2008 2:06 PM In reply to

    • ed7
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on 12-06-2007
    • uk
    • Posts 297
    • Bronze Member

    Re: B&O TV Why?

    well said peter 10/10 Drinks
  • 05-06-2008 2:10 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O TV Why?

    I second that. Peter is like the Hugh Hefner of BeoWorld keeping us rowdy bunnies in check. Double martinis sir! 

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 05-06-2008 2:13 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O TV Why?

    I think that what we're actually discussing/touching upon is the fact that B&O has some very clear challenges cut out for itself, and that this challenge is particularly evident when it comes to televisions where the rate of change has been enormous in recent years -- after decades of CRT being the standard and B&O easily being able to come out ahead in that field.

    The B&O thinking that went into the CRT-era doesn't seem to hold now that we have resolution/screen speed/contrast ratio records being broken EVERY month. Today's consumers are ridiculously well catered to by most providers of products, and what was luxury ten years ago is bottom of the market today ...
    I think Trip is passionate at his end, and some of us are passionate at our end with another set of viewpoints, but we all like the brand -- though B&O should be aware of the fact that a majority like the brand for what it was, not what it is today, and that's a daunting challenge.

    In my opinion, B&O at some point began selling furniture and interior design instead of a/v, and that seems to be coming back to bite them today.

    As one who recently bought a B&O television with which I'm perfectly content and which I intend to use for years, I can only give this reason why: there's nothing else like it (the BV8) And that estimation is the sum of shape and function, where the shape more than made up for any shortcomings when it came to function. But that's me, others will have another opinion. (I got a television that's also a sculpture -  and my reason to buy bites me in the tail, as it's clear that my purchase decision was influenced just as much by the decor aspect!)

    As to what kind of customer B&O should direct its energies towards, I'd say every single one. I have countless direct experiences, due to studies I've had performed, of people being turned off by how they have been treated by premium brand dealers who failed to understand that when you advertise you awaken interest also outside your actual circle of customers. Those whose interests have been awakened deserve to be taken just as seriously as those who enter with the express intent to buy - because as time goes on, the interested ones will become brand followers, if they are given good reasons to follow the brand.

    There are too many bad interactions between dealers and customers in the following thread: 


  • 05-06-2008 2:38 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O TV Why?


    I think you're right on point for the most part. It seems that whatever we're doing isn't enough. I'll certainly concede that. I think that if you look to loudspeakers, Bang & Olufsen as experienced a limited resurgence in credibility. While there are still ample comparisons, most people will concede it's a well rounded effort.

    I think we all hold out hope that our new CEO will be a little less conventional and will let the lunatics run the asylum to a greater extent. The BeoSound 6, to me, will always be a low point. How much development time & dollars could have gone to exploring new flat panel technologies than rebranding an awful iPod knock-off? Who knows.

    I still think that Bang & Olufsen televisions are top notch in terms of picture quality, but I suppose that we have not widened the gap the way we did with the Avant so many years ago. Admittedly, though, our television prices reflect a more complete technological package (many with A/V receivers, high quality loudspeakers, home automation triggers, etc. so a direct comparison is never quite accurate.

    Should we charge less for the BeoVision 4 panels alone? I don't know.  

    I do look forward to greater accessibility with more products like the BeoVision 8, though I have always agreed with many posters that their choices in connectivity for this television have been baffling to say the least. I'd also like to see the gap filled between the $1,350 BeoSound 1 and the $4,000 BeoSound 4 with BeoLab 4s. The BeoSound 2000 and the BeoSound 3000 with BeoLab 2500s always fit well into this gap.

    I think the answer is to introduce new products rather than to gut current ones and lower their prices. I like that I can offer an off-the-wall amazing television like the BeoVision 7 and would be sad to be without it.


    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 05-06-2008 3:14 PM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-14-2007
    • South West, UK
    • Posts 2,360
    • Bronze Member

    Re: B&O TV Why?

    I'd suggest we move on - these discussions come up every few weeks and the same people vent the same opinion. We've heard these opinions so many times I've become disillusioned with the forum, never mind B&O.

  • 05-06-2008 3:51 PM In reply to

    • 9 LEE
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-14-2007
    • Moderator - UK
    • Posts 5,223
    • Founder

    Re: B&O TV Why?


    I'd suggest we move on - these discussions come up every few weeks and the same people vent the same opinion. We've heard these opinions so many times I've become disillusioned with the forum, never mind B&O.

    A fair comment moxxey but as people put over a question slightly differently, so the answers become slightly different. Each thread may be a variation on a theme, but to be fair the theme is Bang & Olufsen!

    We are all here because we love Bang & Olufsen as a concept, as a brand, and as a physical product - and i think of my relationship with Bang & Olufsen as i do my football team, and you can replace that with Rugby Team, Motor Racing Team or whatever you will.  When we 'win' we're delighted, and when the cogs are coming out and the wheels are falling off we genuinely feel frustrated.

    We spend our hard earned money on the brand, and i'm sure if you added up the total purchases of 'normal' earners with the total purchases of the 'super rich' i would hazard a guess that you would find they would not be hugely different.  Appealing to the top 2-3% of earners is all well and good if you have 3 dealers in every country and a tiny product range coupled with small overheads - you can get away with that.  However, the market penetration needed to keep B&O in profit is going to force it to start thinking about the rest of us.  Turning away common people with bulging pockets is suicide in anyones books, and frankly i was bemused by that one.

    One point that is being missed (i feel) is that the exclusivity of the exquisite materials, design and build quality is indeed worth a premium to absolutely anyone - but we need to think about exactly how much of a premium they will pay.  The gulf in price between B&O and their nearest 'rivals' is now so huge that even the most dewy-eyed Bang & Olufsen worshippers are leaving the brand.

    The one single thing that needs to be quantified is how much the name is worth.  You then have two choices - charge what the name is 'worth' when added to the actual value of the product - or if you can't budge on price, make the name 'worth' more by making earth-shattering products that put B&O on everyones lips..

    I would be very interested to see one of the biggest casualties - the BV7-32, undergo a "what would you pay for this" test.  At the moment, they are just under the £6,900 mark - but i'd love to see what people would seriously pay in order for them to ignore any other brand.  As we all know, i am in the business of used B&O, and the market is kept free-flowing by customer demand - which of course governs prices. This provides a clear and true picture of what a product is "worth" because if it's too expensive, the phone stops ringing. Then, i simply lower my purchase and selling price and the phone starts ringing again. I don't claim to get it right all the time - but it's my customers that tell me when i'm being stupid by keeping their hands in their pockets.

    I think the same is happening with B&O, and i really do think that lowering prices is the way forward.  You will also open up to the top 20-30% as opposed to the top 2-3%, and if i'm not mistaken then that's ten times the potential end-users..

    That said, i'm no economist - just a businessman - and if i was that good i'd be typing this on a beach in the Seychelles, not a dining room in Eastbourne.  Keep up the debates guys, keep it clean, no punching below the belt - and don't let your love of B&O fade!






    BeoWorld - Everything Bang & Olufsen

  • 05-06-2008 4:20 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O TV Why?

    I, too, would like to add that I find Trip's comments most inappropriate and offensive.  To me, it comes across with the smug delivery of a groupie trying to party VIP with the rock band but never quite approaching that level personally. 

    So Trip, are you saying that younger, graduate school students such as myself who are just starting to become interested in B&O should "suck it up" and realize early that the brand is not meant for my (current) income level?

    Kudos!  As a dealer, you're managing to turn off, and in a majorly arrogant fashion, those of us who will someday become the wealthy class, effectively replacing, both in spending potential and in personal opinions, your current clientele.

    Remember, your "priveleged" class will someday die and be replaced by those of us who look for quality, steadfastness, and perhaps moreover, innovation to go along with our snobbery.

  • 05-06-2008 5:49 PM In reply to

    • benjnz
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • Auckland NZ
    • Posts 392
    • Gold Member

    Re: B&O TV Why?

    What an interesting thread, gave me something to chew on while am waiting to export addressing records to comply to NZ Post standards Stick out tongue

     So what's new? Well its a strange mix of nothing and everything. Let me explain:

    Nothing from the point of our standard arguements on price, technology, and migration to other maufacturers products.

    Everything from the point of easy integration, that's what I happily use my TV for and it works a treat, manufacturing - am sure B&O does take their time on design, materials and manufacturing to a much greater degree than the value brands out there, features - yes in looking at those B&O has the same challenge as everyone else, HD with little content out there, DVB-T coming in and HD on there too etc.

    I think in a nutshell most of us are right, we need that killer MX Product to kick start the love affair on their TVs again and increase take up. No doubt the BV8 could fill that hole if it was able to have a set of features and a price tag that could match a more realistic price tag. I mean come on prices go down these days for all electronics, not up!

    Didn't they move manufacuting to the east, therefore costs should be lowering in the future anyway? Hmm

  • 05-06-2008 6:10 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O TV Why?

    Well,it would appear that Trip is acting true to form in posting patronising,or insulting, comments,and then subsequently denying that this was his intention.

    Throwing stones in pools to watch the ripples?

    Fortunately,my local dealer is not cast from a "Trip mould"!

  • 05-06-2008 9:34 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O TV Why?

    Well,it would appear that Trip is acting true to form in posting patronising,or insulting, comments,and then subsequently denying that this was his intention.

    Throwing stones in pools to watch the ripples? Fortunately,my local dealer is not cast from a "Trip mould"!

    Come on guys! Thought we had moved on from this?

    If you dont like the written opinion of some of our forum members, please dont whinge and whine with stone throwing/glass window comments. Please put together a decent cohesive argument as to prove why he/she is wrong.

    This is a forum for debate, argument and sharing of views on Bang & Olufsen. Beoworld of late has become a dull place. I look at the amount of put-down statements from all and a lack of willingness or fairness for all to decently counter another with argument as a possible cause.

    Let's stop getting touchy at the slightest hint of provocation or controvosy and retort in a gentlemanly and philosophical manner instead.

    My 2 cents on this thread!



  • 05-06-2008 10:12 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O TV Why?


    i felt that i needed to personally edit my post out as it was too personal of a comment.

    my apologies to trip.

    let us hope that all of b&o's efforts to attract new / maintain existing customers moves forward.

    we are all here for the same reason.

    • B&o bottle opener
  • 05-06-2008 11:57 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O TV Why?

    I may have to retire from these boards. (I know some would welcome it!) When I get on here I'm chomping at the bit to go point counter point. I love a good debate, and that's why I come to the forums. I either try and help out with technical questions if I happen to know the answer or "get into it" on threads like this one which are a bit more philosophical.

    What exasperates me is not the actual debate but the hair-trigger sensitivity of some other posters. Any disagreement is taken as a major insult and so we get into nonsense like nitpicking spelling.

    I'd really miss a place where I could passionately argue and advocate for something I've chosen to spend a large portion of my life on, but my blood pressure's been up all day! I'm going to go to bed and hopefully this thread will have retreated down the page. 

    Goodnight gentlemen.  




    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 05-06-2008 11:59 PM In reply to

    • Dude1
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 09-18-2007
    • London
    • Posts 189
    • Bronze Member

    Re: B&O TV Why?

    I hate to wade into these types of discussions because they tend to get quite heated and i think there has been enough mud slung already.

    I remember when i first came into contact with Bang as a brand in 2002.  I went to the dealer in Auckland New Zealand and was warmly greeted by a young dealer who invited me to sit down and watch a new AV5 in burnt orange that he had just unpacked.  I was blown away and even though the dealer knew i wasnt going to buy that day, gave me a brochure and business card and invited me back anytime.  I was only 23 at the time - very poor as a student, but still was treated with superb service.  It was an introduction to a brand that i had never had contact with before that remains with me to this day.

    I bought my first Bang productin 2004, and have had the products ever since.  I worked for Bang from 2006 and i tried to emulate the service i received with every client that i had contact with.

    I saved for my Bang products, im not wealthy and nor is my family.  We certainly dont fit the 2-3% mould and i really dont think that most Bang clients do.  You dont have to be earning the 2-3% incomes to appreciate style, quality and great sound, anyone can tell you that.

    I loved selling Bang to people who would come in and tell me that they have been saving "forever" for this - whether it be a pair of A8's or BV5. It really is one of those products people aspire to and really treasure.

    Bearing this in mind, i think Bangvisions hold their own in a number of areas - read some of my previous posts to see what i believe these are.  But it is pretty clear that a number of other manufacturers are catching up - or have caught up pretty quick in a number of areas. Its also clear that not all of Bangs clients have a Bangvision, some are happy with whatever they have and i dont think its for me to pass judgement on what they choose.  Some people value stereos or speakers more highly than teles.

    One thing is very clear.  Bang is changing, technology is changing, dealers are changing and structures are changing.  I think Bang has some challenges ahead and so does Sony etc. 

    Go Bang!Smile

  • 05-07-2008 12:16 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O TV Why?

    Sorry, can't sleep. Allergies are keeping me up. 

    I agree, Dude1, that there are some serious challenges ahead. I just took a stab at the "can b&o survive" thread and it really got me thinking about the fact that while we talk about the details between one screen and another, what I see changing the most is how people conceptually use products. The audio system seems to be almost obsolete as things move on screen with unified navigation of lots of forms of media. If I was in product design for B&O, I'd probably be the most interested in developing products like BeoMedia that reflect a media management system that is easy and exciting to use. I actually like the interface on the BeoMedia. It's very elegant, but it could do a great deal more. 

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 05-07-2008 1:53 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O TV Why?

    I must confess to being disappointed by this thread. I agree that what Trip wrote doesn't fit with my idea of B&O but we all write posts where we exaggerate our stance for effect and take it to extremes as part of a debate. I believe that is what has occurred here. By all means shoot the message but personal attacks are simply unpleasant and the hounding of individuals on this site is most unwelcome. Debate is good - some responses on this thread are well thought out and hence my not stopping this thread, but I have come close.

    We are fortunate to have a broad church on Beoworld and I value the contributions made by Trip and his loss from this forum would in my view be detrimental - so remember  - attack the message, not the messenger.

  • 05-07-2008 1:59 AM In reply to

    • benjnz
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • Auckland NZ
    • Posts 392
    • Gold Member

    Re: B&O TV Why?

    But haven't they always had this issue?

    Isn't it a case where people outside the bang universe don't particularly register the need for a tv from them, as they can get what they want from other manufacturers. I would presume most people would go for the audio first and then get sucked in to the tv, if they thought they wanted to? Hmm

    Perhaps they just need to stress a lot more the advantages of owning a tv for link purposes, I dunno *shrugs*. I've always liked the way someone can watch satelite in the living room and if I don't want to watch it I can put a DVD on and wander off to a link room and watch it. Certainly easier than multiple DVDs etc all over the place. 

  • 05-07-2008 3:05 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O TV Why?

    I have read this thread with interest but I feel I now must comment, I too am very disappointed by some of the personal attacks on Trip English by other forum members.

    I feel that these attacks will only harm the forum as others will view this site as being petty & petulant at the merest disagreement, I was under the impression that this site was to celebrate B&O. so please let keep things civil as our voice may not be heard next time.

    Back to Trip, I do think that Trip is probably treading either a company line or even worse a corporate line & has maybe been brainwashed into thinking this is how the brand should be sold.
    We've all been into a upmarket car showroom looking around only to get the brush off as we may not fit their mould as a potential client that they have drummed into them at a sales course.

    I also agree with Trip on some of his points as unpalatable as they maybe to some, I am going to leave it there as this was after all a thread about B&O TV Why.

    Me personally will be purchasing a BV7-40 in the near future as it ticks all the boxes for me & our home where it will be used as a TV for the children in our playroom/cinema but also as my escape zone for watching films & sport on the big screen. Yes they are a lot of money but as a previous poster said before they are also a thing of beauty to behold when not in use & the build quality is top notch & in this day and age of throw away society that is a rare commodity.

    So I guess that all in all as with anything that you purchase it is a decision that you make based on your own circumstances, needs & wants & last but by no means least your personal experience of the product & brand.


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