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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 08-25-2008 4:54 AM by steph. 201 replies.
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  • 03-03-2008 8:01 AM In reply to

    Re: BS5 Any news???

    I have read this thread with much interest and can clearly see how passionate some people are about what they buy into, and that is the whole point surely? I can't really relate to, or say much to any of your posts in this particular thread because I have very little interest if any in digital media.

    I am sure Apple are wonderful and iTunes, its computers and other little devices (iPods, Express, iTV etc) are all great at what they do but I don't want them and I don't need them. I am minimilist. I like artwork, I like design, I like strong statements with little effort and no clutter. I have a BV7-40,the 7-2 speaker under it and my BS 9000 linked. I couldn't be any happier. I have never taken an interest in playing music through a computer, whether its an Apple with iTunes, a PC with Media Player or a BS5 or whatever else companies create. I couldn't care less about a box that transmits music or video from a computer to a TV because I don't like the concept of it. It takes away the pleasure of interacting with my products with a human, personal and elegant touch. I am obviously very different from many on this forum who want to buy into something just because everybody else does, e.g. the constant references to the powerful and 'big boy' iTunes. To me, that is just Apple's idea of doing something a certain way. Thats all it is no matter how well it works or how big it is but that doesn't mean that everyone wants to use it. I am someone who doesn't. I don't care that Peter can use an iTouch to control things. I couldn't care less. I am more open minded and interested to see what other people come up with as a different way of 'doing things' in life. I don't want to join several billion iTune users, I'd much rather be part of the smaller (less succesful as some of you view it Bang and Olufsen) group, its more special to me.

    I am not suggesting for one moment that it should be one way or the other but what I must reiterate is that its horses for courses. I am genuinly happy for those of you that enjoy what you do with your third party products; that's what you desire and what you want to buy into, but I am sure there must be just as many people like myself who have absolutly no interest at all. Also, I want to be exclusive. B&O is an exclusive brand. That's it. I am amazed that people keep talking about Apple on this forum in one context or another. What on earth has anything Apple does got to do with anything B&O does? They are completly different companies that have completely different philosophies selling (almost) completly different products. An earlier posted talked about the cheese moving. What on earth are you going on about? At the end of the day it simply comes down to what I want to purchase and from who. I am only interested in what B&O do and that is absolutly and 100% it!

    Lets hear from some other posters that share my opinion. These constant references to Apple bore me. I am not on an Apple forum and I don't care two hoots about what Apple own, what they produce, how big they are, how great they are..... blah blah. I really don't give a damn, I have no interest at all.

    Simon.

    "We can rebuild him. We have the technology." 7-40, 7-2, 9000, BS3, BC2, LC2, BC6000, Beo5
  • 03-03-2008 8:38 AM In reply to

    • BeoNut1
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-19-2007
    • Mobile, AL (USA)
    • Posts 226
    • Bronze Member

    Re: BS5 Any news???

    Simon,

    I certainly respect your opinions, and I likewise feel somewhat odd writing so many "pro-Apple" responses in various threads here on BeoWorld (and I'm probably the worst transgressor in these regards).

    However, I think those of us who do so are truly saying these things in the hopes of B&O hearing us as we are obviously afraid that B&O's software endeavors will, at best, be easily trumped and, at worst, dissuade potential B&O purchasers away from the brand.  I also respect you wanting to have something that is less mainstream.  I think everyone in this forum, to some degree, feels the same way or we wouldn't be using B&O equipment.  Incidentally, if you notice, the impassioned pleas expressed in these forums from those of us who believe Apple has a solution for B&O's potential future digital troubles are coming from people who have a lot of money invested in B&O products (and continue to invest in B&O products).

    I realize that Apple may be too "mainstream" for your liking, but if you're sincere about wanting to stay minimalist, the AppleTV coupled with B&O hardware is much more minimalist than B&O's current or proposed integration solutions.  Heck, I'm considering getting rid of cable TV (read: "all my cable boxes and the money I send to my cable company") and simply using iTunes to purchase shows I want to watch a la carte.  How much more minimalist can you get?!  Between getting free HDTV via an antennae, free HD Podcasts, and YouTube content, I even save money!  I don't see many drawbacks to this approach (except maybe for sports which don't interest me).

     

    Mark 

    Mark D
  • 03-03-2008 9:00 AM In reply to

    Re: BS5 Any news???

    The Beonic Man:

    I have read this thread with much interest and can clearly see how passionate some people are about what they buy into, and that is the whole point surely? I can't really relate to, or say much to any of your posts in this particular thread because I have very little interest if any in digital media.

    I am sure Apple are wonderful and iTunes, its computers and other little devices (iPods, Express, iTV etc) are all great at what they do but I don't want them and I don't need them. I am minimilist. I like artwork, I like design, I like strong statements with little effort and no clutter. I have a BV7-40,the 7-2 speaker under it and my BS 9000 linked. I couldn't be any happier. I have never taken an interest in playing music through a computer, whether its an Apple with iTunes, a PC with Media Player or a BS5 or whatever else companies create. I couldn't care less about a box that transmits music or video from a computer to a TV because I don't like the concept of it. It takes away the pleasure of interacting with my products with a human, personal and elegant touch. I am obviously very different from many on this forum who want to buy into something just because everybody else does, e.g. the constant references to the powerful and 'big boy' iTunes. To me, that is just Apple's idea of doing something a certain way. Thats all it is no matter how well it works or how big it is but that doesn't mean that everyone wants to use it. I am someone who doesn't. I don't care that Peter can use an iTouch to control things. I couldn't care less. I am more open minded and interested to see what other people come up with as a different way of 'doing things' in life. I don't want to join several billion iTune users, I'd much rather be part of the smaller (less succesful as some of you view it Bang and Olufsen) group, its more special to me.

    I am not suggesting for one moment that it should be one way or the other but what I must reiterate is that its horses for courses. I am genuinly happy for those of you that enjoy what you do with your third party products; that's what you desire and what you want to buy into, but I am sure there must be just as many people like myself who have absolutly no interest at all. Also, I want to be exclusive. B&O is an exclusive brand. That's it. I am amazed that people keep talking about Apple on this forum in one context or another. What on earth has anything Apple does got to do with anything B&O does? They are completly different companies that have completely different philosophies selling (almost) completly different products. An earlier posted talked about the cheese moving. What on earth are you going on about? At the end of the day it simply comes down to what I want to purchase and from who. I am only interested in what B&O do and that is absolutly and 100% it!

    Lets hear from some other posters that share my opinion. These constant references to Apple bore me. I am not on an Apple forum and I don't care two hoots about what Apple own, what they produce, how big they are, how great they are..... blah blah. I really don't give a damn, I have no interest at all.

    Simon.

    Well said Simon, I couldn't agree more. Especially the bit about being bored by it all. I sincerely hope that BS5 is nothing like an Apple product!

    Regards Graham

  • 03-03-2008 9:05 AM In reply to

    Re: BS5 Any news???

    An unfortunate name, an interesting product, though not a shape to die for it's nonetheless got audiophiles swooning.

    http://www.linn.co.uk/klimax_ds

     

     

    As to Simon's lack of interest. The BS5 does stream music to the tv and other B&O around the house, as it integrates with ML. 

  • 03-03-2008 9:30 AM In reply to

    • kuliand
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 05-07-2007
    • nuneaton
    • Posts 43
    • Founder

    Re: BS5 Any news???

    looking at that linn product you need a separate storage device will this be the same on the BS5? i think it would be a better solution to have the storage built in as hard disk sizes are quite large and don't take up that much space so 1TB with 1 disk or 2TB with 2 disks is possible i guess all depends on how big B&O want it to be.
  • 03-03-2008 9:36 AM In reply to

    Re: BS5 Any news???

    soundproof:

    An unfortunate name, an interesting product.

    http://www.linn.co.uk/klimax_ds

     

     

    As to Simon's lack of interest. The BS5 does stream music to the tv and other B&O around the house, as it integrates with ML. 

    I am glad you like it soundproof and this floats your boat then great. While I appreciate the technology and thought behind this product it is not for me and simply looks like a larger iPod that you walk around with playing music. In essence thats what happens when you use it as far as I can see. This is not something that excites me because visually and design wise it is has no appeal. It could resemble any number of things including a portable sat nav like a Tom Tom, a larger iPod as I mentioned, a small palm/laptop, a portable DVD player or a portableTV etc. I would not feel any excitement either buying it or using it.

    If this is what you want then I can only hope that you get immense pleasure from it. I know that I wouldn't, that's all. Watching the BS9000 open, loading a CD, seeing the clamper move up and down, watching the light as the disc spins and the whole visual appearance of using such a product takes a lot of beating. For me, a TV is for watching TV. A CD player is for listening to CDs. A computer is for word processing, filing, using the internet, email and printing. I don't want my devices to communicate with each other in this way. I am sure I am not alone in this desire. Thank God that human beings are all different from each other and what a great challenge for B&O. We'd be living in a communist state otherwise all using the same products.

    Simon.

    "We can rebuild him. We have the technology." 7-40, 7-2, 9000, BS3, BC2, LC2, BC6000, Beo5
  • 03-03-2008 9:40 AM In reply to

    Re: BS5 Any news???

    of course it won't be like an apple product

    apple make things on time , that are affordable and influence the entire industry

    look back at the imac from 1997/8 and how it's colour co-ordination influenced the entire electronics industry from toasters to vacuum cleaners 

    everyone copies apple , even bno 

    popgear is grate™

  • 03-03-2008 9:48 AM In reply to

    Re: BS5 Any news???

    >>apple make things on time <<

     Iphone SDK. Leopard.

     Apple TV 1.0

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 03-03-2008 10:11 AM In reply to

    Re: BS5 Any news???

    The Beonic Man:
    soundproof:

    An unfortunate name, an interesting product.

    http://www.linn.co.uk/klimax_ds

     

     

    As to Simon's lack of interest. The BS5 does stream music to the tv and other B&O around the house, as it integrates with ML. 

    I am glad you like it soundproof and this floats your boat then great.

    Simon - I'd never buy any Linn. I don't like the design - but they have been world leading in developing turntables, in advancing higher resolution sound formats and now in developing better soundcards for digital-to-analog conversion of music.
    I'd like to see that attitude to audio excellence in B&O products, through the line. (I still can't figure out why there isn't an option for lossless transfer of music from a CD to the soundcard in the BeoSound 4, for instance.)

    And while I dislike the shape, I applaud the intent and function, and recognize that they're actually demonstrating and selling this product now, to high-end customers. BTW - all you see is the two-way remote, the rest you can just hide away.

    You write:

    A computer is for word processing, filing, using the internet, email and printing. I don't want my devices to communicate with each other in this way. I am sure I am not alone in this desire.

    And how do you figure that music and films, television series, etc., are processed these days, when they are moved from performers to the recording medium and onwards to your living room? Computers and digital processing all the way. The CD is a digital medium, by the way.

    As I wrote in another post - there's always 78 rpm!  Big Smile


     

  • 03-03-2008 10:28 AM In reply to

    Re: BS5 Any news???

    Hey Richard where did you get your info from??
  • 03-03-2008 10:29 AM In reply to

    Re: BS5 Any news???

    any features??

     

  • 03-03-2008 10:51 AM In reply to

    Re: BS5 Any news???

    I am sorry that my iTouch bores you Simon. I am a huge B&O fan (there you are, if you hadn't guessed!) and I have many of their products. I do use B&O CD players and record players and cassette decks as well as radios and speakers. I like the ones I have considerably and spend quite a lot of time and money keeping them working and up to date.

    However I also have a huge music collection. Quite frankly, it can be a bore finding exactly the CD I want when i sit down and wish to have some music playing, particularly if it is late and I have gone to bed. The ability to play any music I want  in whichever room is important to me. In the past, I could play whatever happened to be on the record player, cassette player or CD player. I now can choose from my entire collection and get full feedback in any room. This is a huge advance and is only possible using my mac and iTouch. I don't have a TV screen in every room and I don't want one in every room. I do have music in all my rooms and most are linked. B&O do not provide a solution to this and I have a nasty feeling BS5 will not either - but I hope I am wrong.

    In the meantime, I plan to enjoy what I have as it completely fulfills what I want. I hope B&O do not have the same blinkered view that a computer is for word processing or I shall not be able to buy their products for much longer as they will go out of business. I am afraid that I agree with the majority sentiment here that B&O need to realise that trying to keep up with the likes of Apple and Microsoft in the software stakes will end in tears. Instead embrace what is good (which B&O have done with BM-Link), by all means adapt things to a B&O style, but  don't get left behind.

    I will therefore not tell you that I got a MacBook Air today!  

  • 03-03-2008 11:43 AM In reply to

    Re: BS5 Any news???

    Simon is, of course, entitled to his opinion, and should be respected for it, though I really disagree with him!

    My daughter, however, who is nearing 18 and has been using computers since she was 5, wouldn't understand what he's talking about. "What do you mean, computers are for e-mail, writing and printing?" But then she and her friends use them for collaborative long-distance work, create movies and music and graphics, Skype and video conferences, web pages, they download and listen/watch to content, and stream it all using wireless. 

    That's the future market, and if you don't meet the expectations of this group, they'll not even bother to try and understand why they should do things differently "your way." It would have to be better than iTunes/iPod, which is like waiting for a better mousetrap to come along these days.

    My daughter: "Poor Christina, she got a Creative Zen mp3-player from her aunt for her birthday. The aunt didn't know it was different from an iPod. She really tried to make it work,  she didn't want to disappoint her aunt, but she gave up." 

  • 03-03-2008 12:14 PM In reply to

    Re: BS5 Any news???

    Peter :

    I will therefore not tell you that I got a MacBook Air today!  

    Congratulations Peter! 

    I got my MacBook Air last week and have been really enjoying it.  The design is really elegant and the build quality exquisitely well done. 

    Beosound 5 BL9 BC2 BL8000 Beovision 7 BL6002  BL11 

     

  • 03-03-2008 1:16 PM In reply to

    Re: BS5 Any news???

    Peter :

    I will therefore not tell you that I got a MacBook Air today!  

    Having googled Macbook Air to find out what it was I discover that it is a small Apple laptop with a tiny 13.3" screen. What's so exciting about that?

    Bill Gates must surely be quaking just waiting for his market share to dip below 95%.

    When Apple gets a majority of world users please let me know!!! Until then I'll stick with what I know best.Laughing

    (see, even the smileys work on my computer!!!!)

    Regards Graham

  • 03-03-2008 2:34 PM In reply to

    Re: BS5 Any news???

    Nobody is quaking over at Microsoft.  They make money regardless of what people buy.  Although with the EU fine of $1.3 billion dollars, they may have lost somewhat.

    Just like B&O, Apple will probably never have a majority market share.  However unlike B&O, Apple's market share is rising in spite of the current economic conditions.  Here is an article that explains the MacBook Air.

    http://www.technewsworld.com/story/61725.html 

    Beosound 5 BL9 BC2 BL8000 Beovision 7 BL6002  BL11 

     

  • 03-03-2008 3:17 PM In reply to

    Re: BS5 Any news???

    soundproof:

    Simon is, of course, entitled to his opinion, and should be respected for it, though I really disagree with him!

    My daughter, however, who is nearing 18 and has been using computers since she was 5, wouldn't understand what he's talking about. "What do you mean, computers are for e-mail, writing and printing?" But then she and her friends use them for collaborative long-distance work, create movies and music and graphics, Skype and video conferences, web pages, they download and listen/watch to content, and stream it all using wireless. 

    That's the future market, and if you don't meet the expectations of this group, they'll not even bother to try and understand why they should do things differently "your way." It would have to be better than iTunes/iPod, which is like waiting for a better mousetrap to come along these days.

    My daughter: "Poor Christina, she got a Creative Zen mp3-player from her aunt for her birthday. The aunt didn't know it was different from an iPod. She really tried to make it work,  she didn't want to disappoint her aunt, but she gave up." 

    Soundproof, I appreciate your comments and equally respect your stance and that of your daughter but remember that your daughter and her peer group (as well as those to come) will not be the only purchasers of audio visual equipment. At 38 I am not quite dead yet and I too will be part of that "future market." That is why I talked about the challenges B&O has.

    Your daughter will be buying products for herself, not for me. We will each have an idea of what we want from those products which is why we have competitive markets and product ranges. Everything that Apple and other companies offer will cater very well for her needs but not necessarily for mine.

    People use computers for different reasons and I mentioned what I want out of mine. As an ex Primary School Teacher with ICT being my specialist subject I can tell you that your daughter's use of her computer is not typical of the skills most young people have in both primary and secondary schools. Many schools struggle to teach ICT effectively because it is only allocated 1 hour a week. Some schools have a 2 hour double module. It is not a core subject and problems with old computers, out of date software and software that is generally difficult to understand, all proves too difficult for pupils to learn such tasks; important as they are and I am in complete agreement with those sentiments, I just know they are still a long way off practically. Your daughter's knowledge will be mostly self taught. Most schools use Textease and Digital Blue Video cameras and software that operate in a completely different way to the more professional software suites you mention, hence a new learning cuve, often very frustrating for the vast majority.

    Many secondary schools are buying into Apple as much as PCs which is a good thing. However, it is also expensive and schools are constantly struggling with having to replace desktops and laptops (MACs and PCs) through neglect from the pupils. The thought is their but the practice of how it all comes together is a completly different story.

    Your "...waiting for a better mousetrap to come along these days" comment clearly sets us apart because while you are happy to buy into the mass market, personally I am the complete opposite and want to remain part of a smaller more individual and specialist group. I love B&Os philosophy that continues to push the boundaries and challenge mass markets and that is where their strengths lie, which is why I admire them, why I buy their products and why I joined this forum. Consider the amount of people that look for vintage B&O as much (if not more) than they do the newer ranges. You could interpret this in a number of ways; one of which must surely be that a considerable proportion of existing and new customers aren't too interested about the more modern digital media direction. I do agree that B&O should develop products in this area but I certainly don't think it will be to their detriment if they do it to a lesser extent. The future can only ever be what the customer demands and that may be what you suggest, but equally it may not. We will have to wait and see.

    It will be interesting to see how well the BS5 sells. I hope it is a great product because in that way we can see how popular it is. I wouldn't have thought there will be many 18 year old's buying it either way. Most of B&Os new customers come onboard in their late 20s early 30s according to B&Os own statistics.

    Simon.

    "We can rebuild him. We have the technology." 7-40, 7-2, 9000, BS3, BC2, LC2, BC6000, Beo5
  • 03-03-2008 3:17 PM In reply to

    • Jandyt
    • Top 10 Contributor
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    • Joined on 04-01-2007
    • Clitheroe, Lancashire, UK
    • Posts 13,004
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    Re: BS5 Any news???

    Sorry, slightly off this fascinating topic, but I just thought I'd share this picture with you.

    Poor me, never win owt!

  • 03-03-2008 3:19 PM In reply to

    • Jandyt
    • Top 10 Contributor
      Male
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    • Clitheroe, Lancashire, UK
    • Posts 13,004
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    Re: BS5 Any news???

    and we all know that Americans eat kittens..

    Poor me, never win owt!

  • 03-03-2008 3:24 PM In reply to

    • ®
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-01-2007
    • UK
    • Posts 970
    • Founder

    Re: BS5 Any news???

    Jandyt:
    Sorry, slightly off this fascinating topic, but I just thought I'd share this picture with you.

    Party!!!

  • 03-03-2008 3:26 PM In reply to

    • camshaft
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • Pennsylvania, USA
    • Posts 575
    • Founder

    Re: BS5 Any news???

    Always the American jokes....   Sad
    -Austin (resident audiophile skeptic)
  • 03-03-2008 4:21 PM In reply to

    • Russ
    • Top 100 Contributor
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    • Joined on 05-07-2007
    • Washington, DC USA
    • Posts 641
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    Re: BS5 Any news???

    Right you are camshaft!  Heaven knows the uproar which would erupt here if we were to start making fun of the Frogs. 

    Or perhaps not.

    I think part of this discussion might be slightly off the mark...I certainly see how Apple (as the best example), established a closed eco-system for iTunes/iPod, especially as it applied (past tense) to purchased-downloaded music.  The DRM system is so strong that it really hasn't been broken, but starting last year, with EMI, the dam has begun to crack.  We can see a time coming when a lot of high-resolution, unprotected software might be available from a multitude of providers.  I can already buy music from Amazon.com, and use iTunes as a player (which is all it was to begin with).  Instead of an AppleTV, at the moment, I use an Xbox360, and with commercially available software installed on my iMac, the 360 can find and play any unprotected material, audio or video, in the library, or the dfault 'movies' folder.  I think it is quite possible to see B&O coming up with their own search engine/Database manager, without concerning themselves too much with the conduit through which the software travelled to your computer. 

    I think it is rather serendiptous to be having this transformation occuring at the beginning of a new century.  A bit over 100 years ago, weren't there at least 2 different means of purchasing recorded music, using incomptible formats from manufacturers more interested in selling hardware than software?  Does anyone care that B&O never really bothered to become a record label, movie studio, or radio network in order to sell it's gear?

     BTW...The photo of President Bush is clearly photoshopped; you can't bar-b-que a kitten with it's fur still on.

    We kid because we love.

     

    Bang & Olufsen Tysons Galleria

    McLean, VA USA

  • 03-03-2008 4:22 PM In reply to

    Re: BS5 Any news???

    camshaft:
    Always the American jokes....   Sad

    Yes always! 

    Beosound 5 BL9 BC2 BL8000 Beovision 7 BL6002  BL11 

     

  • 03-03-2008 4:30 PM In reply to

    • Russ
    • Top 100 Contributor
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    Re: BS5 Any news???

    Soundproof, do you have a price quote on the Liin system you pictured?  I would love to know how much mor it costs than the purported $5KUSD usually mentioned for the BeoSound 5...then we can begin to take wagers on wether B&O can do a prettier job on the hardware and the software.

     

    I'm going to just jump in here and guess 'yes.'

     

    Russ

    We kid because we love.

     

    Bang & Olufsen Tysons Galleria

    McLean, VA USA

  • 03-03-2008 5:26 PM In reply to

    Re: BS5 Any news???

    http://www.linn.co.uk/files/eaccc978/Linn%20Klimax.pdf

     

    It matches the price of the Lab5. 9600 british pound. You get a 1000$ Sonus player with remot  so the b&O solution is right in the middle.

     I do not know where typical price points are for B&O customers, but for me 5K is something I am comfortable with. If I lke form and function, I save up for it.

    JK

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

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