I am having a little upgrade. My beosound is being demoted to the bedroom after 3years of service in the living room. I have BL4000 attached to my non-B&O TV. I have been talking to some people about a Beosystem 7000 and hopefully will be buying one soon.

I have never really liked subwoofers as I don't want to annoy my downstairs neighbors but recently they moved and I have a super noisy clubber that comes in a 3am and shouts on the phone in Japanese. I have asked him to shut it (more politely many many times). So I figured, I would get what I wanted as he isn't be considerate to me so I won't be to him. I have no plans to start playing my system louder or at unreasonable times just to spite him.

I read some threads on here about how the BL11 brought the posters 6000s to life and they sounded amazingly good. I popped to my new B&O dealer today as my old one closed down. I had a listen on the (Ice) BL4000s. I am not sure if he set it up correctly as it sounded bad. Worse than my current BL4000s running of a Marantz amp. I couldn't even hear the BL11.  He did move the BL11 to a BS3200 connected to the BL4000s. When I touched the BL11 I could feel tiny vibrations but could see no movement. I was playing Norah Jones and some Muse.

There are only two real B&O shops in Tokyo, I went to the other store where the owner is a real salesmen and friendly. Is the BL11 really that bad? I was really looking forward to a little more low end. I could hear no difference in the low end and the sound seemed cold and plain bad.

TheMajor:

 Is the BL11 really that bad? 

Yes. Waste of money IMHO

Too bad B&O doesn't subscribe to the Cerwin Vega "philosophy of sound."

There is the possibility that they were set up wrong, and there is also the possibility - a distinct one - that natural bass falls way short of what some people want from their system.

DrDimitris:

Yes. Waste of money IMHO

What is your experience with the BL11?

You can read it HERE

It is was an interesting read. I don't want the BL2 (over kill for me). I thought the BL11 would be perfect for me but it seems to be useless. I live in a 35sq metre (yep 35) apartment so the 4000s rule. I will pop to another dealer when they are open and try the BL but my hopes aren't up!

TheMajor:

I read some threads on here about how the BL11 brought the posters 6000s to life and they sounded amazingly good. I popped to my new B&O dealer today as my old one closed down. I had a listen on the (Ice) BL4000s. I am not sure if he set it up correctly as it sounded bad. Worse than my current BL4000s running of a Marantz amp. I couldn't even hear the BL11.  He did move the BL11 to a BS3200 connected to the BL4000s. When I touched the BL11 I could feel tiny vibrations but could see no movement. I was playing Norah Jones and some Muse.

There are only two real B&O shops in Tokyo, I went to the other store where the owner is a real salesmen and friendly. Is the BL11 really that bad? I was really looking forward to a little more low end. I could hear no difference in the low end and the sound seemed cold and plain bad.

Did you get my email back? Hope it got through okay...

I haven't heard the BeoLab 11 set up in a home-environment, only in the showroom, but I thought the improvement was most definitely worth the money. It cleans up the low-end of the BeoLab 4000s fantastically (the ICE versions, haven't heard it on Mk1s).

Remember, a subwoofer is only there to extend the low frequencies of your main speakers, not boom all over the top of it. Subwoofers were originally added to speakers which were only capable of reproducing down to say, 60Hz, and the subwoofer would fill from 60Hz down to 20Hz (in a perfect situation). For a little trivia, subwoofers in hifi were first used in the mixing process of Steely Dan's 'Pretzel Logic'.

Nowadays, people seem to use subwoofers as an excuse to completely over-do the bass on their system. I've heard so many setups (not just B&O, but some extremely respectable 'audiophile brands') where the subwoofer is turned up far too high. You should never be able to hear the subwoofer itself. If you can, then you're no-longer listening to a stereo system.

Why is this? Stereo literally means 'solid' - it doesn't refer to two speakers, or any particular number of speakers. All 'stereo' means is quite simply a 'solid image' of sound. This sound is heard when you sit in the 'sweetspot' between your (usually) two speakers. When you add in an overblown, over-the-top subwoofer, you pull a large proportion of that sound away from the 'stereo image', and you start to hear a third speaker rumbling away. The bass no longer comes from where it's meant to be heard (which is usually slap-bang between the two speakers).

The BeoLab 11, will not much of a 'shake the room' sub, is extremely capable of handling the low-end your BeoLab 4000s would otherwise reproduce without being sonically dominating, whilst also extending the bass response down that little bit further for when it's needed. If you're playing music without much bass, all you're going to hear when you add in the BeoLab 11 is slightly more accurate, punchier, tight bass. When the bass player, or recording engineer decides they want a deep bass note, the BeoLab 11 is there to handle it when your BeoLab 4000s (or 6000s, even 8000s) might run out of steam.

The BeoLab 11 + BeoLab 4000s IMO is a great combination. The BeoLab 11 does exactly what it says on the tin, nothing else.

If you want more bass, maybe try two (one per side)? You'll end up with 'mono mixed' subwoofers, but most records nowadays have all the sound underneath ~120Hz mixed into mono anyway.

FWIW, for purely music, I would pick the BeoLab 11 over the BeoLab 2 without battering an eyelid in anything but larger rooms...

DrDimitris:

TheMajor:

 Is the BL11 really that bad? 

Yes. Waste of money IMHO

Dimitris, we already know your opinionabout the BL11; my experience (after 6months) is complete the opposite.

Have BL8000 and the BL11 had added a lot more detail and bass to my setup. Had a BL2 on loan from my dealer some time ago; but it was too much for my apartment. The BL11 adds bass to my music and breaths new life into  my BL8000 (MK I versions). I've had the BL8000 for 9 years now so I know exactly how they sound with difference kinds of music and movies. The BL11 is a very welcome addition.. and in most cases it just disappears when playing music. It adds bass without adding "boomboom" sound..

Karel.

TheMajor:

When I touched the BL11 I could feel tiny vibrations but could see no movement. I was playing Norah Jones and some Muse.

That's normal. Due to the construction of the BL11 the vibrations are canceled out :-) perfect for apartements :-)

Even when playing Daft Punk the BL11 almost does not vibrate.. But produces hell of a bass sound :-)

Yeah, I got the e-mail. I just read it. Thank you.

I would say that my system sounds better now with just BL4000 Mk1 than the BL4000 Mk2 with the BL11. It was cold and dull. 

I am not an audiophile. I measure a stereos quality in a simple way. If I hear it and I want to hear more then it is good. I didn't get that at all. It did take him 10 minutes to figure it out how to plug it in

I wasn't even expecting the bass boom. I don't like that, that is why I like B&O's sound. Balanced. I wanted what the BL11 is advertised as being. No a boom but a nice addition that gives more a little more bass so the BL4000 can work on the high end more. Am I wrong in that assumption. I am not massively technical guy. I like simplicity and sound quality.

That is why we have our own oppinions Karel. I believe you that you hear the bass. As i believe my patients that they feel pain, even if they have nothing....

Karel Uyttendaele:

DrDimitris:

TheMajor:

 Is the BL11 really that bad? 

Yes. Waste of money IMHO

Dimitris, we already know your opinionabout the BL11; my experience (after 6months) is complete the opposite.

Have BL8000 and the BL11 had added a lot more detail and bass to my setup. Had a BL2 on loan from my dealer some time ago; but it was too much for my apartment. The BL11 adds bass to my music and breaths new life into  my BL8000 (MK I versions). I've had the BL8000 for 9 years now so I know exactly how they sound with difference kinds of music and movies. The BL11 is a very welcome addition.. and in most cases it just disappears when playing music. It adds bass without adding "boomboom" sound..

Karel.

Yeah I am aware of the vibration cancellation idea. That is why am now considering the BL11. I basically was expecting your experience. More bass no boom and fewer vibrations. They had to have had it set up wrong for it to sound worse than my set up. Heck, I think my BS1 sounds better than the demo today. I am now watching the blue man group blu-ray now and it sounds better and it is running off a mini.

I will demo it at a different store this week and get it demoed in my flat when the beosystem arrives.

I did not know about the noise cancellation design but when we got ours my son was very disdainful that the BL11 was not working.

I cranked up the volume and pointed out that our wooden floorboards were vibrating :D

 

As I have reported elsewhere my wife's reaction was ecstatic to hearing opera on the BL11 in the store with BL 6000s.

 

Over the past 4 months we have had it I would say the combined sound is richer: I have tried it on our BL 6000s and our BL3s.

The BL 11s presence is generally subdued so I understand the good doctor's comments, but we all agree the overall sound is richer.

 

To me it is most noticeable with music like jazz (e.g. Melody Gardot).

Not so sure about Daft Punk - as reported elsewhere I do get a strange effect when playing TRON's "The Grid" which I have not been able to reproduce ... so may have been an aberration or may have been a level of iTunes software.

The most demonstrable BL11 presence was with a CD from my son called "Eargasm"

I feel kind of bad about the possibility of retailers of such a fine brand being not skilled enought to set up their systems correctly...! Are they not supposed to have any guidance for how to sell their products?

Atleast here in finland they usually tend to play the shop's own music with the sample systems, so it's more than recommended to take some of your own favorite music with you when going to test the equipment. Of course the space is not the same but atleast the music is. :)

Any Beovox Cona owners having any opinions about BL11? I'd like to hear...

 

I wonder what that Cerwin Vega philosophy of sound might mean...?

I just called the shop and expressed concern about the demo today and the beolab 11 in general. His reply was 『今日私も本当にショックをしました』or meaning "I was really shocked today too". After I left the store he confirmed that he had set everything up correctly. He says that it sounds better with the 6000s in store but they have a device that allows them to switch the beolab 11 off and on while playing to demo the difference. He has since filed an issue report with B&O Japan but they are closed today. Only shops are open at the moment. He is going to get a reply tomorrow and asked me to come back for a full demo as soon as he finds out what is going on. He asked me to come in and check it out with the 6000s in the mean time too.

redfresnel:

I feel kind of bad about the possibility of retailers of such a fine brand being not skilled enought to set up their systems correctly...! Are they not supposed to have any guidance for how to sell their products?

Atleast here in finland they usually tend to play the shop's own music with the sample systems, so it's more than recommended to take some of your own favorite music with you when going to test the equipment. Of course the space is not the same but atleast the music is. :)

Any Beovox Cona owners having any opinions about BL11? I'd like to hear...

 

I wonder what that Cerwin Vega philosophy of sound might mean...?

 

TheMajor:

I just called the shop and expressed concern about the demo today and the beolab 11 in general. His reply was 『今日私も本当にショックをしました』or meaning "I was really shocked today too". After I left the store he confirmed that he had set everything up correctly. He says that it sounds better with the 6000s in store but they have a device that allows them to switch the beolab 11 off and on while playing to demo the difference. He has since filed an issue report with B&O Japan but they are closed today. Only shops are open at the moment. He is going to get a reply tomorrow and asked me to come back for a full demo as soon as he finds out what is going on. He asked me to come in and check it out with the 6000s in the mean time too.

Please tell us your experience when you do it.

DrDimitris:

TheMajor:

 Is the BL11 really that bad? 

Yes. Waste of money IMHO

Dimitri!!!!!!!!! Absolutely disagree!!!!! I put the BL11 along with a pair of 4000 and when setup correctly it is absolutely marvelous. I think that BL11 is what is actually missing from BL4000, 6000 even 8000 in some cases. I did buy and will not regret it. The bass is the exact volume it should be. It adds up as much as needed. Dimitri you are 1,5 hours drive so I'm waiting...........

Spiros:

DrDimitris:

TheMajor:

 Is the BL11 really that bad? 

Yes. Waste of money IMHO

Dimitri!!!!!!!!! Absolutely disagree!!!!! I put the BL11 along with a pair of 4000 and when setup correctly it is absolutely marvelous. I think that BL11 is what is actually missing from BL4000, 6000 even 8000 in some cases. I did buy and will not regret it. The bass is the exact volume it should be. It adds up as much as needed. Dimitri you are 1,5 hours drive so I'm waiting...........

Are you 4000s MK1 or MK2?

This particular set that I use is latest model.

Just as a tip if somebody is interested in a subwoofer that can be hided under a sofa or somewhere else..

I have a setup with Beolab 8000 in the front and Beloab 6000 in the back and a Canton ASF 75 SC   (http://www.canton.de/en/homecinema/subwoofer/produkt/asf75sc.htm

Its hided under the sofa, very descreet and it sounds perfectly. It doesnt look very stylish, but it doesn't matter since nobody sees it :-)

It's connected to my BV3-32 and it was easy to adjust levels and everything..

/Peter

Peter:

Just as a tip if somebody is interested in a subwoofer that can be hided under a sofa or somewhere else..

I have a setup with Beolab 8000 in the front and Beloab 6000 in the back and a Canton ASF 75 SC   (http://www.canton.de/en/homecinema/subwoofer/produkt/asf75sc.htm

Its hided under the sofa, very descreet and it sounds perfectly. It doesnt look very stylish, but it doesn't matter since nobody sees it :-)

It's connected to my BV3-32 and it was easy to adjust levels and everything..

/Peter

Peter,

I tried to connect a Velodyne Sub to my BV10, but had the problem that it switched on and off automaticly and that did not work well with the BV10. When there was periods in e.g a movie with no bass tones, it simply switched off.... and then on again with a "pop" when there where bass tones to play.

You don´t have any problems like that with the Canton?

How do you connect it to the TV?

Cheers/ 

Claes

 

Just checked the manual for the Canton ASF-75 SC.

I assume you have the sub always on, right?

I did not have that option with the Velodyne. It was always set to "automatic switch on/off")

Hi Claes,

Connecting the Canton was very easy, I simply got a converter cable (RCA to Beolink) and attached it to the subwoofer outlet on the BV3-3 just as if it was a B&O speaker. It is not recognized by name on the setup screen of course, it just says "Subwoofer", but my Labs shows up with model name. So the Sub acts like a perfectly integrated B&O sub. I have no problems with popping sound or any distortion and it goes into sleep mode as it should after little while after the BV3 or my BS2300 is turned off. 

Despite its small and flat cabinet it is very powerful and the sound is great in combination with the Beolabs ( I have the first gen. Beolab 8000 in the front, so they needed some bass support..) Perfect combination to a really reasonable price and a good alternative if you want an "invisible" sub..

/Peter

Hi again, Claes.

I have the Canton sub in "Auto" mode. It works great. No "bangs" or "pops" or other distortion when turning on and it goes to sleep within a minute after shutting off the sound source..

/Peter

Thanks Peter,

I´ll may give it a try. Was fairly disappointed that the Velodyne behaved the way it did. Bought it from my B&O dealer.