I have an interesting update to my Beogram comparison threat I posted ages ago.

I very good friend with a high end Sony system asked to hear my collection of Beograms and brought along his collection of prized vinyl records for the comparison.

The end result was nothing sort of stunning.

First we compared the Beogram 4000 with its formally discarded MMC20CL cartridge with my Beogram 4004 and its NOS MMC20CL cartridge. No contest, the 4000 devastated the 4004 using the same McIntosh 2255 amplifier.

On to the Beogram 8002 and its Beomaster 4500 amplifier. Impressive, very impressive…. crisp full sound with wonderful mellow bass, but while extraordinarily impressive, not quite the sound reproduction of the Beogram 4000.

Another careful listen to the 4000 and my friend said, “My God if I close my eyes it is like the singer and musicians are right here in the room with us!”

There was no comment on the 4004, but the 8002 was described as fantastic, but not remotely as “real” sounding as the Beogram 4000.

The “discarded” MMC20CL cartridge was one that I had used for many years on my original 4002 and my dealer suggested that I needed to replace it with a new one, which I did, but kept the old cartridge as a spare.

So what do I make of this remarkable scenario? I don’t, as I am not a technical expert, just a music aficionado.

I will leave that judgment to the experts, from whom I very much look forward to their reaction.

Jeff

P.S.

I received an email from my friend after hearing my Beograms thanking me sarcastically saying, “Its official, my system sounds like crap.”

I think it will be the cartridge - I cannot hear any difference between my 400X decks, though I do think my powers of discrimination are lessening! I can tell cartridges apart though - I think the set of the diamond can be very important and your old one is clearly perfect!

Hi Peter and Evan,

It has been suggested that I exchange cartridges between the 4000 and 4004 to see what difference it makes, but I have to tell you, I have no intension to test this “theory.” These turntables are no longer young and any change to the tonearm can result in hours spent to get all the adjustments just right.

Clearly the Beogram 4000 is very content with my formally discarded MMC20CL and I am not about to mess with….. oh what the heck, perfection.

Evan, judging from the number of posts you have logged, you are an enthusiast. Peter is the great expert here, but I recommend any of the 4000 series of B&O turntables with all my heart. Failing that an 8002 with a MMC1 or MMC2 would be an extraordinary addition to your home sound system.

First, find a really fine example, and then make sure the seller knows how to ship it properly. All three on my 4000 series Beograms arrived in various states of destruction.

Lastly, if anyone has followed any of my previous posts you may have noticed that I seldom, if ever mention my Beogram 4002. Peter says that all these 4000 series turntables are alike, and they are, sort of. My 4002 is connected to a Beomaster 2400 and S-75 speakers so it is at a considerable disadvantage vis-à-vis my other turntables. Annoyed with its mediocre performance I took a 30X jeweler’s loupe and examined the stylus….. only to find a glob of debris the size of Toledo, Ohio. Once removed, the 4002 was very much in line with the 4004.

Jeff

I think you are very wise! The MMC20 range do seem a little more sturdy than the MMC1-5 range but one only needs to look at Soundproof's story of the supporting plastic breaking to realise that removing cartridges should be done as little as possible!

Hi Jeff,

I would love to kick off my entry into BeoGrams with a 400X! But considering I have precisely zero vinyl I think I will experiment with something a little less serious. The only reason I have started to pay attention to threads like this is that I have noticed a lot of music that I would regularly buy on a CD or in iTunes is being pressed into vinyl! How cool is that?! I could have that vintage sound but with my favorite modern tunes.

Lately I have become infatuated with the 1200. I absolutely love the look. The studs are so simple looking and the tonearm is so sleek! Beautiful.

Have a look at the 2000 - the lid hinges - much more practical!

Peter :

Have a look at the 2000 - the lid hinges - much more practical!

Odd thing is, I prefer no lid!

Hi Evan,

Unless you live is a dust-free environment, as few of us do, you will want a lid.

Jeff

Evan:

Odd thing is, I prefer no lid!

Not to hijack Jeff's thread (or the other one)... PM/email me.

If you want a 120x -I have one in the original box w/ a lid! Condition unknown, but I will take a look if you are interested. There is another member I need to get back with who is in line for a possible 400x. I have several, so if you want to go that route -I can accommodate you after he possibly makes a selection.

Back to the topic... my most listened to BG is a 4002 -> BM4000 -> S45

...mainly as that is my primary vintage setup. I hope to rotate my working 4000 in when I find time! My other 4000 is still awaiting hand delivery to Benny Amina for repair -you guessed it... when I find time!

The lid on the 2000 simply slides off so if you want no lid, no problem. Once you have used a record player for a while, you will want the lifting lid!!

burantek:

Evan:

Odd thing is, I prefer no lid!

Not to hijack Jeff's thread (or the other one)... PM/email me.

If you want a 120x -I have one in the original box w/ a lid! Condition unknown, but I will take a look if you are interested. There is another member I need to get back with who is in line for a possible 400x. I have several, so if you want to go that route -I can accommodate you after he possibly makes a selection.

 

Back to the topic... my most listened to BG is a 4002 -> BM4000 -> S45

...mainly as that is my primary vintage setup. I hope to rotate my working 4000 in when I find time! My other 4000 is still awaiting hand delivery to Benny Amina for repair -you guessed it... when I find time!

Yeah, I hear that guy will eventually want:

400x -> BM4x00 -> M70

xxxx -> BM1900 -> S45-2

xxxx -> BM2400 -> S40

I hear that guy really could use some advice.

[:'(]

Rich:

Yeah, I hear that guy will eventually want:

400x -> BM4x00 -> M70

xxxx -> BM1900 -> S45-2

xxxx -> BM2400 -> S40

I hear that guy really could use some advice.

[:'(]

This must be XXmas wish list

Søren Mexico:

Rich:

Yeah, I hear that guy will eventually want:

400x -> BM4x00 -> M70

xxxx -> BM1900 -> S45-2

xxxx -> BM2400 -> S40

I hear that guy really could use some advice.

[:'(]

This must be XXmas wish list

 

Well, threadjacking aside, that guy just got his professional engineer's license and will get his master's degree in 10 days.  He's buying himself some presents to celebrate.

Piaf:

Unless you live is a dust-free environment, as few of us do, you will want a lid.

Yes I suppose the lid is quite necessary and makes sense when I think about it because I switch between my two systems about every 2-3 weeks which leaves the one I'm not using... well... Not in use! So I will want it for the extended away times.

But in terms of why I want a 1202 is plainly just the look. The lid totally spoils that!

@ Peter, I've never lived with a record deck before so I might not have noticed the inconvenience since I'm not used to it! Plus I bet I would hardly use one even if I had it.

Also, I feel like the hingy-lids wold leave some sort of bracketry behind after the lid is removed - ruining the look regardless...?

Jaff,

OMG you have TWO Beogram 4000’s!?!

My BG 4000 is the jewel of my “collection” (obsession if you prefer) and I wouldn’t part with it for all the world! It performs basically like when it was new.

When my 4000 arrived from UPS shipping, the dust cover was a disaster and a BeoWorld member generously provided me (refusing any compensation) a very presentable dustcover.

However this dustcover is a “replacement” dustcover in good, if not exceptional condition with a tape strip in place of the original metal band.

If anyone has an original NOS 4000 dustcover or a “real” one in exceptional condition, I would be grateful to purchase it.

Jeff

Evan:

 

@ Peter, I've never lived with a record deck before so I might not have noticed the inconvenience since I'm not used to it! Plus I bet I would hardly use one even if I had it.

Also, I feel like the hingy-lids wold leave some sort of braketry behind after the lid is removed - ruining the look regardless...?

No brackets at all! The hinge and spring are all included in the lid structure which simply slides onto the back of the aluminium deck - it is very neat and clever! If you have seen a 4000 type deck, the 2000 is similar but doesn't even need the sprung bolts - possibly the cleverest lid B&O have done.

The 1202 is fine though - actually it is slightly more sophisticated than the 2000 as it is based on the 3000 rather than the 2000, which is similar to the 1203. All 1200 decks have a simple lift off lid.

Well maybe if I really get into this whole trend I will source a 2000 lid for my 1202

Do you have any opinions of the SP cartridges?

The SP12 is superb. I am not convinced that B&O cartridges really got much better - just a lot smaller and neater. The only thing about the 1200 series is that the isolation from sound and vibration is not nearly as good as the later decks. I would tend to use a wall bracket.

Yes, I went from having two nicely working Bg4000s to having one, after the support broke off during a cartridge change on a new one I found. Actually surprised by the apparent flimsiness of the design, so handle with care. It's possible that the lip had been damaged before the player got here, but I am approaching any cartridge change on my remaining Bg4000 with the care of someone set to defuse an ICBM about to launch.

That said, the Beogram 4000 is a great record player when set up right. 

Peter :

wall bracket

Man. That is not what I wanted to hear... I am planning to have this on the same piece of furniture that my four BeoVoxen will stand on. Mostly because it will look incredible with my 3000-2 and the rest but also because I really have no other place to put something like this.

I absolutely cringed when I saw your enclosed photo of your 4000 tonearm!

I have had a terrible time removing the cartridges from my various 4000 series turntables, often affecting the tonearm adjustments.

I am so glad that I decided not to mess with “perfection” in regard to my Beogram 4000 and “try” the NOS MMC20CL cartridge that I have in my Beogram 4004 with good if not stellar performance.

Peter convinced me that I have a remarkable “fluke” in that my long discarded (but retained) MMC20CL is so perfectly aligned. This cartridge was installed in my original Beogram 4002 turntable and replaced due to age at the suggestion of the dealer in the late seventies.

Jeff

Evan:

Peter :

wall bracket

Man. That is not what I wanted to hear... I am planning to have this on the same piece of furniture that my four BeoVoxen will stand on. Mostly because it will look incredible with my 3000-2 and the rest but also because I really have no other place to put something like this.

I have a feeling you will get a very lumpy sound like that. I have my bracket kust above where the hi-fi is. Speakers on the same bit of furniture is possibly not such a great idea. However you won't know until you try it!

Peter :

Evan:

Peter :

wall bracket

Man. That is not what I wanted to hear... I am planning to have this on the same piece of furniture that my four BeoVoxen will stand on. Mostly because it will look incredible with my 3000-2 and the rest but also because I really have no other place to put something like this.

I have a feeling you will get a very lumpy sound like that. I have my bracket kust above where the hi-fi is. Speakers on the same bit of furniture is possibly not such a great idea. However you won't know until you try it!

Yes, I am a bit worried... I plan on using the wall behind the Hi-Fi as a place to view my new projector-monitor. I should have explained the setup better; I am imagining a sort of console that will run the width of the room which will act as a shelf I guess. So we are talking a fairly large structure, roughly 10 feet end to end.

Something like this.
Those are 2600s on the stands and S45-2s on the ends. BeoGram @ left with 3000-2 in the middle.