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  • 01-17-2011 5:50 AM

    Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    Hi there Beoworlders.

    I am after some simple step by step instructions to help me plan my home sound system. Were in the stages of planning a renovation and I need to give some details to my architects. Im a bit of an ignoramus so excuse the stupid questions. I presently have a BS9000 and 3000 (not used) along with some BL8000 speakers. I presently have my 9000 connected via  airport express plugged into the 9000 for wireless music.  

    Im wanting to improve the sound quality. BL5's are planned and I am hoping to use a mac mini as  a music server and ipad as a remote . The options are to either use the mini directly to the lab5s or the presently unused 3000 as a conduit. What are the best and simplest connection options - nothing to complex but I do want to keep the sound quality high.

    (The 9000 will be used as a stand alone product with the 8000s in another room)

    Any help and guidance would be much appreciated.

    Thanks

    J

  • 01-17-2011 7:59 AM In reply to

    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    Easiest is to connect the Mac Mini via optical digital out trough a optical to coaxial digital converter (about £20-50). directly to the Beolab 5's.

     

    This is how I have my current system setup. Works really well.

     

    My BS9000 "controls" my BL5's. You need to use the "CD" source on your 3000, to let the BL5's know to listen for a digital input. Even if you have a CD loaded in your BS3000, the digital signal will automatically override the Powerlink signal coming from your BS3000.

    If you do want to listen to your CD's, that's no problem either, just pause iTunes and after a few seconds the BL5's realize there is no digital signal anymore, and flips over to listen to the Powerlink cables.

     

    I also have an iPad to control it all. A great system, which makes me able to save my beloved BS9000, and enjoy the comfort of having all my music stored in lossless quality and easy access in a music library.

    -Andreas

     

    BLab5, BLab5000, BLab8000, BV10, BS9000, BS3, Beo5, Beo4, BLink1000, BLink5000, BLink7000, A2, A8, Form2

     

     

     

  • 01-17-2011 12:26 PM In reply to

    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    I have a setup similar to bayerische's. 

    However, I would strongly recommend a sound-card between your Mac mini and the BL5s, to ensure a properly clocked signal, instead of just a straight conversion. It's not complicated at all.

    From the Mac mini you run a firewire cable to a unit such as this one:

    http://www.tcelectronic.com/impacttwin.asp

    It will work as a converter, but you will be feeding it with the Core Audio output from the Mac mini, instead of the Toslink optical, and then you pull a Coax S/PDIF signal from the unit to your BL5s.

    Set-up is simple, you use the internal clock sync of the Impact Twin and your speakers will breathe very well.

    If you want to get a touch advanced, get Pure Music - it's software for playback which loads the music into the computer's RAM. It accesses the music using iTunes for file management, but it has a better playback engine than QuickTime (proven in many listening tests.) It's quite inexpensive.

    As bayerische says, you can control playback from an iPhone or iPad, using Remote or some of the other remote programs available.

    It's an excellent solution. 

  • 01-17-2011 12:39 PM In reply to

    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    Interesting point SP.

     

    You think my setup could do with an external soundcard?

    -Andreas

     

    BLab5, BLab5000, BLab8000, BV10, BS9000, BS3, Beo5, Beo4, BLink1000, BLink5000, BLink7000, A2, A8, Form2

     

     

     

  • 01-18-2011 3:10 AM In reply to

    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    Thanks very much Soundproof.

    So you don't use a BS3000 or other as a means of sound control? Or do you? If so where does the tcelectronic fit into the chain?

    Is it safe for the speakers volume to be only controlled by the computer if I exclude the BS3000 from the picture?

    Thanks in advance and apologies for my stupidity. Id be asking the guys at the BO store but they're pretty unhelpful (mainly through ignorance).

     

    JR

     

     

  • 01-18-2011 7:23 AM In reply to

    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    No stupidity here.

    Back in Beosystem 6500 days, the system was equipped with a coax s/pdif out from the CD-player, marked "for future use." They never used that, as far as I know, until the BeoSound 9000 came along and you could make a connection to a similar port directly to a pair of BL5s (when those were launched.)

    However, the B&O codes have a quirk, as described by bayerische: the BL5s look for a signal from the s/pdif connection, and will give priority to that, if detected. If not, they fall back to whatever is coming down the Powerlink. And even if they are decoding an s/pdif signal, you can control the speakers through the Powerlink, to adjust volume, etc.

    So this is a work-around where you can attach a non-B&O source, while still being almost entirely inside the B&O control interface.

    Most of the time I don't use the Beomaster 7000 that's connected to my BL5s. I have it there when I want to play musicassettes, and then I use the speakers in Option 0. You would want to do the same thing, but you also want to send music to the speakers using the Mac mini.

    I haven't tried this with a BeoSound 3000, which has an integrated CD-player, so you would have to experiment as to the coax s/pdif override when you press CD on the remote.

    Here's what happens with my setup, when I'm in Option 0 for the BL5s and want music from the Mac mini. I press CD on the remote, the Beomaster 7000 switches on, shows CD on the display and fires up the speakers, if the Mac mini is already playing something, then that's what I hear from the speakers, or else I can just select something with my iPhone or iPad, and that gets the music going.

    The Beomaster 6500 is connected via Powerlink to the BL5s.

    The Mac mini is connected to the tc electronics soundcard that is the predecessor to the Impact Twin I linked to above. The signal goes from the mini via FireWire, which is the best possible connection for porting music out of a mini. 
    The Impact Twin has coax s/pdif OUT, and I just run the regular s/pdif cable from B&O from the soundcard to to one of the speakers, and then daisychain from that to the next.

    The advantages of using a soundcard of this kind are many. Given the brilliant resolution of the speakers, you get to feed them the best possible signal, which has been reclocked by the soundcard. The way it is set up, the mini is actually slaved to the soundcard, but controlled from it via a very sensible control panel.

    Theoretically, it shouldn't matter whether you convert from Core Audio to Toslink s/pdif, convert that to coax s/pdif and then feed the speakers; but ideally you would want to have as few conversions as possible between source and speakers. Using a soundcard such as the above sends Core Audio (the native audio protocol for the Mac OS, used by professionals in film and music) straight to the soundcard, which then sends a coax s/pdif straight to your speakers, while the soundcard's clock is ensuring as jitter free delivery as it's desirable to have.

     

  • 01-18-2011 9:09 AM In reply to

    • Puncher
    • Top 10 Contributor
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    • Joined on 03-27-2007
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    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    soundproof:

    No stupidity here.

    Back in Beosystem 6500 days, the system was equipped with a coax s/pdif out from the CD-player, marked "for future use." They never used that, as far as I know, until the BeoSound 9000 came along and you could make a connection to a similar port directly to a pair of BL5s (when those were launched.)

    However, the B&O codes have a quirk, as described by bayerische: the BL5s look for a signal from the s/pdif connection, and will give priority to that, if detected. If not, they fall back to whatever is coming down the Powerlink. And even if they are decoding an s/pdif signal, you can control the speakers through the Powerlink, to adjust volume, etc.

    So this is a work-around where you can attach a non-B&O source, while still being almost entirely inside the B&O control interface.

    Most of the time I don't use the Beomaster 7000 that's connected to my BL5s. I have it there when I want to play musicassettes, and then I use the speakers in Option 0. You would want to do the same thing, but you also want to send music to the speakers using the Mac mini.

    I haven't tried this with a BeoSound 3000, which has an integrated CD-player, so you would have to experiment as to the coax s/pdif override when you press CD on the remote.

    Here's what happens with my setup, when I'm in Option 0 for the BL5s and want music from the Mac mini. I press CD on the remote, the Beomaster 7000 switches on, shows CD on the display and fires up the speakers, if the Mac mini is already playing something, then that's what I hear from the speakers, or else I can just select something with my iPhone or iPad, and that gets the music going.

    The Beomaster 6500 is connected via Powerlink to the BL5s.

    The Mac mini is connected to the tc electronics soundcard that is the predecessor to the Impact Twin I linked to above. The signal goes from the mini via FireWire, which is the best possible connection for porting music out of a mini. 
    The Impact Twin has coax s/pdif OUT, and I just run the regular s/pdif cable from B&O from the soundcard to to one of the speakers, and then daisychain from that to the next.

    The advantages of using a soundcard of this kind are many. Given the brilliant resolution of the speakers, you get to feed them the best possible signal, which has been reclocked by the soundcard. The way it is set up, the mini is actually slaved to the soundcard, but controlled from it via a very sensible control panel.

    Theoretically, it shouldn't matter whether you convert from Core Audio to Toslink s/pdif, convert that to coax s/pdif and then feed the speakers; but ideally you would want to have as few conversions as possible between source and speakers. Using a soundcard such as the above sends Core Audio (the native audio protocol for the Mac OS, used by professionals in film and music) straight to the soundcard, which then sends a coax s/pdif straight to your speakers, while the soundcard's clock is ensuring as jitter free delivery as it's desirable to have.

     

     

    I'm curious!

    While everything you say makes perfect sense, when transferring a digital signal to the BL5 is there really a sound quality benefit in having the intermediate soundcard stage, as it is the clocking of the DAC (internal to the BL5) which dictates the quality/jitter performance rather than the quality of data transfer over the spdif link (assuming of course no complete data dropouts). I would assume (although it's not clear form the service manual) that the transfered data is suitably buffered at the input of the BL5 as it is then processed by the DSP before then being passed to the DAC/Amp.

    I can however understand having the soundcard there for electrical isolation reasons, or for use with other speakers whereby the output of the soundcard would then be analogue (from the soundcard DAC) and the souncard clock stability would therefore be significant.

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 01-18-2011 9:37 AM In reply to

    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    I have several sources going through that soundcard before going to the BL5. I believe that if you're just piping one signal, you might do with a straight conversion.

    However - you are going from the Core Audio, to a digital OUT conversion, to the Toslink Optical, to the Toslink/Coax conversion, before the signal goes to the speakers; and you could be going Core Audio>coax s/pdif.

     

    Then it's up to your level of audiophilia nervosa to determine whether you're bothered by the intermediate steps.

  • 01-18-2011 10:01 AM In reply to

    • Puncher
    • Top 10 Contributor
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    • Joined on 03-27-2007
    • Nr. Durham, NE England.
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    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    soundproof:

    Then it's up to your level of audiophila nervosa to determine whether you're bothered by the intermediate steps.

     

    Laughing - Fair enough! I'll make sure the soundcard is stood on a suitably large crystal and has a pyramid on top!

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 01-18-2011 1:49 PM In reply to

    • Alex
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • Bath & Cardiff, UK
    • Posts 2,990
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    Puncher:

    I'm curious!

    While everything you say makes perfect sense, when transferring a digital signal to the BL5 is there really a sound quality benefit in having the intermediate soundcard stage, as it is the clocking of the DAC (internal to the BL5) which dictates the quality/jitter performance rather than the quality of data transfer over the spdif link (assuming of course no complete data dropouts). I would assume (although it's not clear form the service manual) that the transfered data is suitably buffered at the input of the BL5 as it is then processed by the DSP before then being passed to the DAC/Amp.

    I can however understand having the soundcard there for electrical isolation reasons, or for use with other speakers whereby the output of the soundcard would then be analogue (from the soundcard DAC) and the souncard clock stability would therefore be significant.

    I don't know the details of exactly how the BeoLab 5s clock, but they'll have to pull it off the S/PDIF connection (not ideal, but it works for just stereo audio). If the BeoLab 5s didn't clock to the sound-card, you'd get clicking/popping at even intervals as the two clocks wander out with each other slightly!

    What I couldn't tell you is whether the BeoLab 5s have any sort of jitter-reduction mechanism/circuits.

     Weekly top artists:                   

  • 01-19-2011 6:56 AM In reply to

    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    Here's my setup today. You can barely spot the Beomaster 7000 to the left of the television. All other equipment is inside the cabinet, and is controlled from the iPad. Music and video is stored on a NAS-unit in another room. I use the Beomaster infrequently, to play musicassettes using a Beocord 6500, or to listen to radio. But as I find myself listening more and more to net radio, the Beomaster is headed for another room soon.

    I prefer listening in a quite dark room (and no, that's not dust on the dome of the BL5 on the left. I put a flashlight on it to pick out the lenses, and that created the impression.)

     

  • 01-19-2011 7:32 AM In reply to

    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    I love the position of those speakers. Right where I would have mine if I could.

    Beosystem 7000/6500- Beolab 4000 - Beosound 1 - A8 - Earset 3 - Beo4

  • 01-19-2011 11:49 AM In reply to

    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    It really does wonders for the sound when the BL5s get space to work - I find that the bass becomes particularly involving and distinct.

    Here's a picture showing the setup with more light.

     


  • 01-19-2011 10:29 PM In reply to

    • John
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    • Joined on 08-15-2008
    • Melbourne Australia
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    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    soundproof:

    It really does wonders for the sound when the BL5s get space to work - I find that the bass becomes particularly involving and distinct.

    Here's a picture showing the setup with more light.

     

     

    A beautiful room, and a delightful contrast of elegance to the oft 'mad inventors' audiophile room photos I've seen on other HiFi forums!

    Is that a plasma or LCD display in the photo? - may I ask as to your reasons for brand/choice of display?

    Best Regards

     

    John...  

    No-one ever regretted buying quality.

  • 01-20-2011 4:40 AM In reply to

    • Alex
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • Bath & Cardiff, UK
    • Posts 2,990
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    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    soundproof:

    It really does wonders for the sound when the BL5s get space to work - I find that the bass becomes particularly involving and distinct.

    Here's a picture showing the setup with more light.

    Interesting, I've never really considered the vertical dispersion BELOW the BeoLab 5's acoustic lenses, although I'm assuming it's actually slightly tighter than the dispersion above because of the shape of the discs.

    I say this because I find I have issues with reflections off coffee tables in that sort of situation, but I suppose BeoLab 5s don't suffer from the same issue!

     Weekly top artists:                   

  • 01-20-2011 5:08 AM In reply to

    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    We're a little off the topic of the thread now. I just wanted to demonstrate that it's possible to use a B&O audiomaster in the way that the OP intends. My only concern being whether the BeoSound he intends to use, which has an integrated cd-player, can be used in this manner. I'm using a Beomaster 7000, where the CD-coax is supposed to come from "outside" the unit anyway.

    The discs do limit the downward dispersion significantly compared to ordinary speaker constructions. Previously I used to have two small tables to each side, but I have moved those into the other listening room, where I have traditional speakers. I couldn't discern any difference between those tables and this new one with the BL5s, and when I'm in complete audiophila nervosa mode I just push the table to the side, it's very light.

    Here's a photo of the tables I used previously, one on either side.

     

    @ Beoboiinoz

    The screen is a Pioneer Kuro plasma, which I bought as they came out. And the picture is still so good that I haven't considered replacing it. If I do, it will probably be for a projector. At the time, the Kuro screen was significantly better than other available screens, money no object.

  • 01-20-2011 6:58 AM In reply to

    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    Soundproof and others thanks for your input so far.....

     

    I may have to try and see if I can use the BS 3000 as intended. Since we are drawing everything up with no exposed wires - I need to have things perfectly planned before the cabinetmakers final drawings. At least I know the 9000 is  a fall back.... but we need to see if the 3000 will work.

     

    Since I have your attention perhaps you'll indulge me further.....

    1) Core Audio?? IS this a Mac mini specific thing? Additional software? Couldn't find anything on the web explaining this. 

    2) Can I use a Macbook Pro instead of the preposed mac mini (ie use the Firewire output). I can't see anything about Firewire audio capability for the Macbook Pro where as the mini does have a listed muti-channel firewire out.... Would a non-firewire output to the impact twin degrade sound quality?

    3) Is a direct connection (ie. powerbook audio out to B&O cable-> BS3000/9000->powerlink-> BL5) inferior to the digital connection proposed? IF so, how much of a difference is there?? Sorry for the questions. I see some comments regarding this but end up a little confused and want to know how much of a real world difference there is.....

    Thanks again in advance. Good choice in TV by the way Soundproof. I have the Pioneer KRP500M. Fantastic with Blue rays. Do you have the TV hooked up to the speakers as well? I may have to get directions for that too..... maybe in the next instalment to save your fingers...

    Regards

     

    Justin

  • 01-20-2011 7:39 AM In reply to

    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    1. Core Audio is how Mac's natively handle all audio formats. It's designed to meet the requirements of the professional film and music industries. (Core Video).

    http://developer.apple.com/technologies/mac/audio-and-video.html

    This is available to professional downstream components using the FireWire out, or particular soundcards that are installed in workstation versions of the Macs.

    2. I would strongly recommend finding a Mac mini, as you would probably find it limits the use of your MacBook Pro to just have it connected to your system, far away from you. The Mac mini can be placed inside a cabinet, and can then be controlled and updated using an iPad, a laptop, iPhone, etc. Screen Sharing on Macs lets you do most configuration and maintenance task as if you were controlling the Mini directly, over your network.

    Some MacBook Pros do have FW out. You can pull an optical toslink signal to an Impact Twin, but then you might want to consider using a straight conversion, as originally proposed. The point is that your speakers are capable of such fine resolution that you want to ensure the best possible signal reaches them, and using FireWire out to a soundcard, and then going to your speakers, ensures that.

    3. By direct connection I take it you mean taking a signal from the Minijack out from a Powerbook, and then going to AUX in on the BS3000 or 9000. I would be wary of damaging the speakers when inserting and removing the plug, unless the speakers are off. And you are then leaving the decoding of the audio signal to the cheaper DAC inside the Mac, which has been shown to be a very noisy environment as far as jitter is concerned. Stereophile/Cambridge Audio had a discussion about that which can be googled. Note that this discussion deals with USB out, which is much better than using Minijack out.

    http://www.stereophile.com/content/cambridge-audio-azur-dacmagic-da-converter-manufacturers-comments

    The mini is used for playback of a variety of video-files, including BD which has been extracted from the originals, using Plex which is multi-format capable. I send the audio for that to a surround processor, the pre-outs of which is connected to the LINE IN on the speakers.

    Audio from the STB goes to the same surround processor via coax s/pdif, but can also be accessed directly through the Beomaster, when I only want 2-channel sound which is fed to the Beomaster via analog from the STB. That audio then reaches the BL5s through the Powerlink.

  • 01-23-2011 7:08 PM In reply to

    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    Thanks for your help Soundproof.....got it sorted now (in my head at least)

    On a side topic.... do you have any/many music files you have at 256 kbps AAC that you play through the Lab 5s? If so, how do they hold up compared to lossless? I have a mixture of lossless AIFFs and AACs and don't want to try and get all AAC files as lossless, unless they are poles apart.

    Apple store convenience....

    Regards

    Justin

  • 01-29-2011 4:56 PM In reply to

    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    Hi

    I was inspired by this thread to buy the tc connect impact twin. Now I have connected it to my mac mini and I even got audio through to my BL5. Very cool...

    What I still haven't managed is to have the BL5s autosense the digital spdif signal from the impact twin. From what I understand the BL5 should autosense digital input and output that even if anything is already playing through powerlink.

    My BL5s are connected to a BV7-40 mkIII with powerlink mk2. The BL5s have serials starting with 20. I have an Overture connected to the TV, but I do not use it much.

    I get digital audio with option 4, but then I have to switch option to use the TV or the Overture. I'd really love if I could use the same option  and still control volume both with my B&O and the mini mac

    Any suggestion on what I need to do are greatly appreciated.

    /Kim

  • 01-29-2011 10:37 PM In reply to

    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    Beology:

    On a side topic.... do you have any/many music files you have at 256 kbps AAC that you play through the Lab 5s? If so, how do they hold up compared to lossless? I have a mixture of lossless AIFFs and AACs and don't want to try and get all AAC files as lossless, unless they are poles apart.

    Hey Justin

    After reading about Soundproofs comments about lossless above, I decided to rip a few CDs in lossless for my iPhone. I can't comment on the Beolab 5s but I can hear the different between 320Kbs on my A8 earphones and lossless on my iPhone. With the beolab 4000s it is very clear the difference. I think the Beolab 5s will clearly show a marked improvement. I just spent the last few days re-ripped all my CDs from 320kbps to lossless (around 900-1000kbps).

    Beosystem 7000/6500- Beolab 4000 - Beosound 1 - A8 - Earset 3 - Beo4

  • 01-30-2011 4:11 AM In reply to

    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    Hi Kim, the BL5's only listen to the SPDIF when you select "CD" as a source. This is the only limiting factor in using this configuration... I would love to simply use "AUX" as that is a source I have now open. I have the BV10, and I couldn't have it connected as the Videomaster, because it doesn't carry the "data info" or something similar in the Powerlink cables, thus making the BL5's unaware of what source they are being fed with.

    I'm still confused about wheather or not to get the extra soundcard. I'm just blown away by the awesome sound I get playing directly from the mac mini's optical digital out and converting the signal to coaxial. I can't hear any difference from CD...

    But since the soundcards are pretty inexpensive, I guess I'll try it at some point.

    -Andreas

     

    BLab5, BLab5000, BLab8000, BV10, BS9000, BS3, Beo5, Beo4, BLink1000, BLink5000, BLink7000, A2, A8, Form2

     

     

     

  • 01-31-2011 4:42 AM In reply to

    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    Thanks Major for your input.

    I do understand that AAC files are superior to mp3s so Im hoping for someone who has done a direct comparison with that format(i.e. high "quality" itunes) and lossless. I suspect however that I'll be doing as you suggest/have done- going lossless.....

    Bayerische- Let us know how you go if you do get the soundcard, and if there is an improvement.

    Thanks guys.

    Justin

  • 02-18-2011 9:18 AM In reply to

    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    @bayerische Thank you for clearing that up. The autosensing on spdif works like a charm when I select the cd source. The CD on my Overture stopped working years ago, but thats just perfect now. When I hit CD my Ouverture turns on, the bv7 turns on it's display and the BL5s fire up. As soon as they get a spdif signal from my Twin Impact / mac mini beatiful tones fill the room.

    I have not made a comparison on the Twin impact versus a signal straight from the mini. I went ahead and bought the Twin Impact when I saw the danish musicshop www.aage.dk offer it at 1999 DKK, aprox. Euro 270. I found it to be a bargain.

    Next step is to rearrange my living room. The pictures of Soundproofs listening room above and his description match my livingroom almost exactly. I'll give Soundproofs layout a try and I think I might start a seperate thread about it.

  • 02-19-2011 7:51 AM In reply to

    Re: Mac Mini, Beolab 5 and Beosound3000/9000

    When I am in option 0 I need to prwss CD to get the output from the soundcard recognized by the BL5s. i then have the Beomaster in the loop.

    When I am in option 1, the output from the soundcard takes presedence over everything else (s/pdif). But if I switch off the soundcard, then what comes down LINE is recognized. i have my surround processor delivering to the BL5s through LINE.

    Please try Channel Ds Pure Music software. They give you a fourteen day trial period, you'll appreciate what their proprietary player delivers to the speakers.

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