Phil,

In my view there is a few more steps we need to take to fully pin down all the variables and come up with a suitable solution/workaround.

The following points need to be considered:-

1. All the units which have failed for you are Beosound 9000 Mark III, we need to understand if this problem occurs on Mark I & II or Mark II's which have had a software update to provide N.Music etc.
2. As far as I am aware there has not been a software update that should effect The "Naming" memory, but the memory is used for other functions of the unit and some of these have had changes which could effect the memory
3. Given, that to date we only know for sure that the problem occurs on Mark III's, we need to do the test on a Mark II which I will do tomorrow. If the problem does NOT occur on Mark II units, then the most like cause is going to relate to software changes made to fix something else or the introduction of new functionality. If it occurs on all other versions, then we must assume that the problem has always existed, but no one found until you did.

It is possible for an engineer to reset the memory, but that is hardly a solution or workaround and that is why we must pin it down a bit further.

I would like to ask any member with a Mark I or Mark II Beosound 9000 who is willing to spend a little time adding CD's with names to see if they get the problem with their unit to speed the whole process up.

Great news Phil, glad you are finally getting there. Be sure to keep us up-to-date with how you get on with B&O and their engineers.

 

I don't have a BS9000 (yet), but have been following this thread with interest.
I am so pleased you are starting to get this sorted Phil, it must have been really frustrating.
Thanks to Keith, there is a light at the end of the tunnel now.
What would we do without you  Keith!

Andy T.

Good morning,

great respect to Phil for holding out so long with this frustrating problem

great respect to Keith for his know how and help!


I have the feeling that this forum is the right place for EVERY B&O user.

While reading this very interesting thread I'm asking myself:

Could this problem affect EVERY B&O stereosystem that has the feature "CD Memory" integrated?
Do Beosound 3000, 3200 and 9000 have this problem?


 

Thanks for everyone's comments and support, I really appreciate it and it's good to feel supported. Yes it has been extremely frustrating but once I set my mind to something I don't give up easily and I've always maintained this is an inherent fault within the 9000 and no amount of repairs or replacements will fix the problem until the cause is fixed - I'm just glad I'm finally starting to get somewhere after what has been one long headache.

The B&O engineer is coming on Saturday to take a note of all the error codes so they can be sent back to Denmark. He's then going to reset the machine to factory settings in the hope this wipes the memory although I see this as a short-term fix as I don't want to be going through this process every 6 months as anything stored on the unit (radio settings etc) will also be wiped, I feel this is a 'fudge' to get the unit working and nobody should have to 'fudge' a high-end hi-fi system so it will play cds. The only long-term solution that I can see is for B&O to make a software upgrade!

I'll keep you posted in this continuing saga.

Just checked and I have 189 CDs in the list!  Have had the BS9000 since 2000.

Oh my good, there where names on CDs I didn't even know I own!. I have about 500 CDs so it looks like I only played less then half of them since 2000.

***UPDATE***

The engineer has called today to log all the errors, these will now be sent away to B&O for analysis. While he was here he tried to reset the unit to factory settings in the hope that would clear the units 'memory' and allow cds in be played in the proper way. However, when he tried to rest the unit the message 'TM Error' was displayed, which in itself is an error as he should have been able to reset the machine. Therefore we do not know if resetting would have worked or not.

We did some further tests as already reported here on this thread so I could demonstrate what has been discussed here. The engineer is happy that it is not down to 'user error' but he could not explain why this is happening. I feel I'm still at square one and B&O are not able to explain why this fault is occuring and therefore (more importnatly) what is required to fix it long term so it doesn't ever happen again.

I feel i have no other choice but to request a refund as there is nothing else that can be done 

I am so surprised that B&O is still producing the Beosound 9000s, it is one of the most unreliable product they ever produced. I know it isn't their fault but part of the complexity of the design itself. Why still produce the Beosound 9000s when you have to constantly deal with customers bringing back in for servicing and repairs? 

Actually the hardware is not particularly complicated. I was amazed when I first took the lid off of one just how few components there are in the box.

Much of the complexity is in the software and the h/w -s/w interface. Software controlled moving parts may be the root cause of most of the problems reported although I have sold several BS9000 and only one has caused me any grief. That was a known software problem on the CD servo and quickly sorted.

Back to this particular problem. I guess that once B&O Technical in Denmark are persuaded that this is a software problem they will quickly cotton on to the fact that more and more BS9000 customers will be complaining especially when extended warranties are being offerred. I think they will soon come up with a fix.

Maybe Keith/Lee should pass the word to our B&O contact in Struer and see if Beoworld can expedite a fix!

I have now, after about 3,5 months of use 194 titles programmed, I always program the title when I put in a CD. So I'm getting close to the 200 programmable, after this it will be easy to check if mine will freak out at 256, Cause I'm not going to end up with a faulty product when my warranty is out...

 

So I'm, going trough CD's like crazy.

 

To be continued... 

So today I did a little experiment, and tried to get my BS9000 to fail.

 

First I named all the 200 programmable CD's.

So that I knew that now I have put atleast 200 CD's trough it's memory.

So pulled out a drawer  with old CD's that I don't listen to much anymore, I counted to 70+ CD's and then lost count, and went trough at-least 20 more.

So I'm guessing around 300 CD's right now, and it's working just fine, so can this be an isolated bunch of BS 9000?

I don't feel like continuing putting CD's into it, cause I know I'm over the 255 number and I got a pumping headache from switching back and forth, not to mention my back.

 

I will continue to put new CD's into the player, naturally when I buy them, but right now it feel like I'm chasing the end of the rainbow.

BTW,

Mine is:

 

SW 3.3

Serial: 15995992

type 2571 

Mines a type 2572

philball:

Mines a type 2572

 

Was your old ones the same type?

 

Well the feedback provided by bayerische is very interesting and very helpful.

Both type 2572 and 2571 are Mark III units, but it was actually bayerische's unit serial number which seems to provided the biggest indication to which units have the problem..

After some research it appears that all Type 257x after serial number 18439498 have been produced with software version 3.4 which makes quite a few software changes. So based on all the information to date and the fact that it does not fail on my Mark II unit which I tested, I think it is likely that this problem may only occur on Mark III units after serial number 18439498.

To check if the above indication is true I would ask Phil to check the serial number of his current unit and if he still has details of the serial number of the two previous units as well ?

If the above turns out to be true, then this is almost certainly why no one has notice the problem before, because it would only effect units sold since 2005.

Interesting thread; I'll going to check to see how many CD I've added and see if I can make some test here on my side as well on my Mark III unit. If it's a software issue that can easily be solved; I would assume that such upgrade would made available for whom ever needed it.

Yes, and I forgot to say that mine was a expo demo model, so therefore it's a bit older than the rough 3 months I've had it.

 

Thanks Keith for not "making" me go trough more CD's.  

Mine has serial 17076803 (which is supposed to be out of the danger zone), and I am almost sure that I have played more than 255 CD, and I have used all 200 memory positions.

The unit has not failed, but has the problem with 2 or 3 certain CDs.

Hello Keith,

Once again many thanks for your interest and help in solving this issue. I've dug out all the serial numbers for all 3 units and they are as follows:

18503172

19442165

20359464 (this is the current unit)

As you can see, all 3 units are after the serial number you mention (18439498). You've managed to do what nobody else in B&O could do for the past 3 and a half years! You're a genius.

I'll be speaking to the B&O shop tomorrow - I'll keep posting further developments as they happen.

All the best

What an absolutely fascinating thread - it's amazing how logical Keith is.. Sherlock Holmes could learn from him! 

I'm really glad the problem has been pinpointed - and after all that time too.  Makes you proud to be a BeoWorlder!!

Lee

 

***UPDATE***

I am now writing to say how utterly disappointed I am with B&O UKs response to this problem. After fighting for 3 years to get this issue recognised as an inherent fault with the machine, countless phone calls, trips to Birmingham (400 miles), trips to Exeter, having the engineer come to my house twice for tests, repairs and replacements I would have thought that B&O would be grateful to myself and all the contributors (especially Keith) on this forum for finally getting to the root cause of the issue, something they have refused or been unable to do themselves.

I spoke to the shop where I purchased the original unit from today and said that if they cannot put this right (which appears as though they cannot at present) then the only alternative would be a full refund. The guy at the shop has been very helpful, understanding and listened very well. However, he phoned me back tonight to report that after speaking to the UK Technical dept at B&O they want the unit to go up to Glocester with some of my cds to be looked at. They have done this twice in the past with no results. I'm refusing to do this as I've already had tests and the engineer has been to my house to see the fault using my cds. I see that nothing would be gained by sending it to Glocester again other then I would be without the system.

When I bought the unit in Birmingham it came with an extended 4 year B&O UK guarantee which runs out in June however the Technical dept are trying to say that this is no longer valid as when I purchased the unit from the Birmingham shop the shop was a B&O franchise at the time however the shop is now under B&O UK control (same shop, same location). They are trying to say therefore that the shop I bought the unit from no longer exists and therefore my warranty no longer exists. The warranty, however came from B&O UK, not the shop so it is still valid and does still stand - I think this unhelpful and aggressive stance by the Technical dept is very poor. I have spoken to trading standards however, and I don't even need a warranty if the item was sold to me in a defective state and not fit for purpose as demonstrated by this thread.

After 3 years of one long headache I am incredibly disappointed that B&O are taking this approach. However, I'm not giving up now. It appears (as discovered by Keith) that all 9000 MKIII machines with software version 3.4 have this fault and it's only a matter of time before more start displaying the symptoms I have. It will be interesting to see if B&O continue to sell the 9000 even though they are now aware of the fault. Do B&O really want all this negative publicity, rather then trying to resolve this issue in a fair and right way.

I wonder what head office in Denmark would make of all of this - surely they want their products to be of the highest quality and I would have thought that keeping their reputation intact is paramount to them. I think this is extremely embarassing for a company of the calibre of B&O,  .

Keith - any thoughts?

Many thanks for all the continued support.

That's just awful!

Typical paper pushing. I'm in the same situation with my BMW right now, just excuses to take any responsibility! 

 

***UPDATE***

B&O Denmark are now aware of the issue and want to view this thread with interest. I will report back once I hear from them after they have read this.

Great news Phil!
Hang on in there, thre's light at the end of the tunnel now.

Andy T.

bayerische:

That's just awful!

Typical paper pushing. I'm in the same situation with my BMW right now, just excuses to take any responsibility! 

 

I was in the same situation with my MINI (also BMW) I don’t know why companies that have great reputation of services and communication with costumers doing this !

We should be more stronger and never give up ! Cos this is really embarrassing, you pay premium for product and SERVICE and after all you get "just excuses to take any responsibility"

Honestly I'm sick of this, and if I need I will go to the press or ....