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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 08-30-2008 5:52 AM by wonderfulelectric. 161 replies.
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  • 08-29-2008 12:12 PM In reply to

    Re: News 2008 / 2009

    wonderfulelectric:

    Haha... on the basis that the Beolab 3s  compress even playing moderate volumes as do the Beolab 8000s. Anyways I was just sent a customer satisfactory form and I've written under the comments that I really like your designs but please use better quality components, be it through the use of outsourcing or price rise. I seriously wonder how B&O get away with using the components they use now. But I just bought a bunch of their phones and a pair of loudspeakers didn't I.

    Okay compare the value you get from the Beolab 4000s and these. http://www.definitivetechnologies.com/loudspeakers/mythos/mythos_supertowers.html . Just crazy. I am not saying B&O should become the industrial leader in terms of value but come on.... 

    Ah, the value proposition again. I'm actually partial to that - particularly when performance is similar. But I kind of don't see the similarity between BL4000 and the Mythos STS towers you're pushing here? The BL4000 has its use and application - a sophisticated bookshelf speaker; the Mythos towers another, or?

    And what kind of amplifier would you think one should use to get the best out of the passive drivers in the towers? It's only the bass that's equipped with class-D amps.

    I use BL4000s where I want them to blend in/disappear in the interior. They deliver a wonderful, homogenous tone - I'm partial to string music (piano, guitar, violins) and for that they are stunning.

    The BL3s for nearfield listening where I read (I've even had them set up in headphone simulation, one on either side on stands). For this kind of nearfield listening (almost using them as monitors) they are absolutely brilliant. I heard from an editor of a hifi-magazine that they stole the show when B&O were introducing BL9 to the press. BL3 was also being demonstrated, and the assembled rep's of the press (assembled in Struer) couldn't quite understand what they were hearing from these two small speakers. Particularly the resolution of vocals perplexed them -- they can't be pushed "too" high, but for that you have BL9 and BL5.

    I get your drift. There are things B&O can improve - but do remember the implications of passive vs. active loudspeaker technology and what that means as far as loads, driver sensitivity and performance are concerned.

    Overall, I don't think anyone will argue with your basic premise that the absolutely best in components should be used, as long as that use has a rational foundation.

    When Mike Lavigne sat down to do ABX-testing of Transparent Opus MM cables at USD 49.000 vs Monster standarc loudspeaker cables at USD 200, he didn't for a second doubt that Opus MM would trounce the Monster cables, and that he would be able to pick them out every single time.

    Well, he couldn't distinguish between the two. I have my beefs with B&O (believe you me), but they are very good at picking what works, sensibly, rationally and purposefully -- and of avoiding what is based on myth and hifi superstitions.

  • 08-29-2008 12:15 PM In reply to

    Re: News 2008 / 2009

    Well, I am not saying the Beolab 3s should go bigger but maybe use better drivers that can match up to the job? I admit that the Beolab3s are good for desktop applications but the sound quality can definitely be improved even with the current design limitations. Look at the link that I just sent, the floorstanders are molded from thick aluminium and advanced polymers, and at the same time looking quite slender but yet delivers a hell of a performace. I know performance often suffers under design constraints but it might no longer be so in todays terms. Maybe the Beolab 3s will be better off being marketed as desktop speakers but hey I have to add clutter to my desktop by adding a quality soundcard etc... Maybe they will offer built-in D/A in the future.
  • 08-29-2008 12:23 PM In reply to

    Re: News 2008 / 2009

    Okay... Don't even talk about cables. So I was setting up the Beolab4s for my Imac, I discovered that they were susceptible to a large amount interference from the poor quality of cables that were provided. I then went to get specially made shielded cables from a hifi dealer. When I received the cables, guess what happened? They were not compatible. The 3.5mm headphone cables that B&O uses are not industrial standard, apparently B&O ones are sligthy longer so now I have to settle with interference from my cellphone whenever I have a message or a phonecall coming in.

    Well I am not saying that B&O should use the best components or the best cables etc... But the quality of the components they use now are kinda ridiculous. They are even below budget hifi standards.

  • 08-29-2008 12:39 PM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: News 2008 / 2009

    My tuppenceworth - using "better quality" drivers may not result in any better audible performance. The BL3 performance is remarkable given some pretty basic limitations of physics, regarding driver and cabinet size. It's ability to "stun" folk who think they know better is testament to that. If you need more there's the BL9 (a larger, floor stander with, who'd have thought it, more bass) and then obviously the BL5 their big brother. The acolades regarding performance and value (quite a feat for a £12K pair of speakers - name any other top end hifi equipment at this price level that is described as good value) are there for all to see.

    Each of these products will have spent 1000's of hours in development, being endlessly tweaked, measured and then adjusted again. I'm always sceptical when anyone suggests they can better all of this engineering effort by a "simply" change of driver etc.

    Each speaker in the range does address a slightly different application although, of course, there is a significant overlap. Each speaker looks radically different, it either floats your boat or it doesn't. Would I want "normal" rectangular boxes of various sizes and shapes dotted about - no.

    I'm willing to trust the bods in Struer, other than the BL4 the last few speaker releases have all been winners.

     

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 08-29-2008 12:43 PM In reply to

    Re: News 2008 / 2009

    Thing is much as I like both the Beolab 9 and 5s, theyhave too much bass for my room. My original plan was to get the Beolab 9s for my bedroom but it has got way too much bass. The Beolab 3s aren't that great for real listening. I am tired of settling for compressed dynamics, first the Beolab 8000s then the Beolab 4000s and the Beosound 1s.So I ended up with buying another brand's ugly hifi instead. However, I have to disagree a little about the drive units part. You see what B&O is doing to the Beolab 3s is to squeeze every drop of performance out of the drive unit so naturally you will get higher distortions across the entire spectrum because of added stress, a simple drive unit won't do because obviously it can't the load. What I was recommending before was really logical, a larger voice coil to handle more power, a stronger magnet to have an even tighter control over the driver, so compression will set in only at even higher volumes and it will be at ease under normal dynamic conditions.

  • 08-29-2008 12:51 PM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: News 2008 / 2009

    wonderfulelectric:
    Thing is that the Beolab 9 and 5s have too much bass for my room. My original plan was to get the Beolab 9s for my bedroom but it has got way too much bass. The Beolab 3s aren't that great for real listening. So I ended up with buying another brand's ugly hifi instead.

    I'm confused now - the Lab9's have too much bass and therefore you needed a speaker with a "lighter" bottom end. We have folk who work in the studio/media industry who regualry use BL3's in monitoring type applications because of the accuracy and yet you found them to be poor for normal listening.

    I assume you did experiment with various listening positions and Lab3 settings etc. before discounting them?

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 08-29-2008 1:57 PM In reply to

    • saf
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    Re: News 2008 / 2009

    I'm also confused. 

    I'll openly admit though that the reasons for my limited understanding of some tech things being discussed here is indeed my limited tech knowledge, but I have to admit as well that in this case, Wonderfulelectric, I feel somewhat lost sometimes, sensing some contradictions in what you are saying - or not?

    wonderfulelectric:

    Maybe they should build a larger version of the Beolab 3s since they do look kinda small to be taken seriously ...

    wonderfulelectric:
    Well, I am not saying the Beolab 3s should go bigger but maybe use better drivers that can match up to the job?


    ?

    wonderfulelectric:

    Haha... on the basis that the Beolab 3s  compress even playing moderate volumes as do the Beolab 8000s...

    wonderfulelectric:

    Thing is much as I like both the Beolab 9 and 5s, they have too much bass for my room...

    At what volumes do you prefer to listen to your speakers (in your bedroom)?! I mean, it can only be at not moderate - unless, perhaps, exactly those at which BL3 start to compress and the BL5 and BL9 have already too much bass ... Wink

  • 08-29-2008 2:37 PM In reply to

    Re: News 2008 / 2009

    Oh yeah those do sound a little bit confusing. I meant that B&O should maybe consider building proper standmounts. You know those that do not compress in high levels. A loudspeaker that goes loud doesn't mean that it has to produce a lot of bass, take a horn loaded loudspeaker for example, it can definitely go very loud but produce not much of a bass at all.

    Regarding the Beolab 3s, what I meant was it will be nicer if they can be built bigger but maybe it will probably not happen due to aesthetic reasons but they can definitely benefit from better drivers. It is easy to assume that a loudspeaker that goes deep means it goes loud or a loudspaker that goes loud has a lot of bass if you have been exposed to B&O products for too long. In hifi it is not all about loudness or quantity of bass but it has a lot to do with clarity, dynamics and all that jazz.

    You see due to Beolab 3s bass alignment and driver size, it cannot go deep. It is the depth of the bass that I want. In a normal listening environment, the boudaries such as the walls will reinforce the bass region so the ideal loudspeaker will have a sealed bass arrangement. In that arrangement although the bass starts to roll off early as measured in an achenoic chamber, it goes deep and will fill out in a room. But in the case of the Beolab 3, all the notes of the deeper bass will be missing because of the passive radiator assisted design coupled with a small driver.

  • 08-29-2008 11:11 PM In reply to

    • Dave
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    Re: News 2008 / 2009

    Then add a subwoofer with BL3'! That way you can fiddle with the settings and placement until you have the sound you want. The BL3 has a 4" driver in a cabinet smaller than a carton of milk, how much bass do you really expect?  From what i am reading, you do not understand what B&O is about.

    It's simply not all about coils, drivers, bass, treble and all that jargon. It's so much more than that, and i think every negative aspect that these Beolabs could possibly possess - has been expressed here, but let me tell you, the positive aspects outweigh their weaknesses! Look at them... look at how long they last (BL8000 is still selling like a hotcake 16 years later), how they sound for the sheer size of the cabinets, the ease of use and ease of placement, the way they look and sound in general in the domestic environment... Do you see ANY boxes around them? No it's all inside those slender speaker!!

    “Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of intelligent effort.”

    Your health and well-being comes first and fore-most.

     

     

  • 08-30-2008 2:29 AM In reply to

    • Alex
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    Re: News 2008 / 2009

    The BeoLab 3 is actually capable of reproducing perfectly deep bass in a small-medium room, and still does a great job even in a larger room.

    You say about bigger drivers, but the dual passive radiators in the BeoLab 3 will produce more sound than a single larger one, and due to their tuning, will reproduce sound deeper too.

    On top of that, the BeoLab 3 actually has more power than most people think. The two amplifiers may both be rated at 125w, but the LF amp can actually produce more like 220w.

    Also RE BeoLab 5 + 9 having too much bass:

    Once the ABL sweep has been run on the BeoLab 5s, I've never heard them producing too much bass, even in smaller rooms.

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  • 08-30-2008 4:36 AM In reply to

    Re: News 2008 / 2009

    Dream on alex dream on!

    The beolab 5 our to powerfull in a small(er) room.

    I know because I own them.To much loudness!!

    B&O should mention this in there advertising,as they do by the beolab 9!

  • 08-30-2008 5:52 AM In reply to

    Re: News 2008 / 2009

    Sigh... I don't think you are getting what I was trying to say. You should take a look at frequency response curve of a loudspeaker with a sealed bass alignment and one that is ported or has a passive radiator. The Beolab5s will not only be aurally dominating but physically too in a smaller room. 

    All I was trying to say was there's not enough loudspeaker selections in the Beolab range. It's if you want better quality you either go big or settle with lower quality in a smaller package with a lower price tag.

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