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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 12-19-2007 4:50 AM by Terrapolitan. 32 replies.
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  • 12-15-2007 4:40 AM

    • 355f
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    Plasma v lcd

  • 12-15-2007 6:15 AM In reply to

    Re: Plasma v lcd

    yet lcd outsells plasma by miles

     and as for computer applications - plasma is soooooo outdated 

    popgear is grate™

  • 12-15-2007 6:30 AM In reply to

    Re: Plasma v lcd

    I agree that LCD is clearly the correct screen type for computers - using my mermaid right now! However plasma would definitely be my choice for a big TV screen.
  • 12-15-2007 7:44 AM In reply to

    Re: Plasma v lcd

    Plasma is a clear winner for TVs there is no doubt. LCD is best suited for computer monitors up to a certain screen size. Thanks for the link Stephen, an interesting read, albeit a short one.

    I saw Casino Royal (Blu Ray) playing through a Playstation 3 on a recent Fujitsu plasma and I was blown away. It was absolutly amazing.

    What is the panel used in the BeoVision 9 and how does it compare to other plasma panels out there?

    Simon.

    "We can rebuild him. We have the technology." 7-40, 7-2, 9000, BS3, BC2, LC2, BC6000, Beo5
  • 12-15-2007 8:44 AM In reply to

    • moxxey
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    Re: Plasma v lcd

    The Beonic Man:

    Plasma is a clear winner for TVs there is no doubt. LCD is best suited for computer monitors up to a certain screen size. Thanks for the link Stephen, an interesting read, albeit a short one.

    I saw Casino Royal (Blu Ray) playing through a Playstation 3 on a recent Fujitsu plasma and I was blown away. It was absolutly amazing.

    What is the panel used in the BeoVision 9 and how does it compare to other plasma panels out there?

    Simon.

    Hi Simon,

    You should check out Casino Royale on Blu-ray which the Bath store have connected to the BV4-65, with Beosytem 3 and BL5's. Absolutely amazing - picture quality, audio and the entire experience. You can also sit far closer to a plasma than you can with an LCD screen.

  • 12-15-2007 9:32 AM In reply to

    • 355f
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    Re: Plasma v lcd

    The Beonic Man:

    Plasma is a clear winner for TVs there is no doubt. LCD is best suited for computer monitors up to a certain screen size. Thanks for the link Stephen, an interesting read, albeit a short one.

    I saw Casino Royal (Blu Ray) playing through a Playstation 3 on a recent Fujitsu plasma and I was blown away. It was absolutly amazing.

    What is the panel used in the BeoVision 9 and how does it compare to other plasma panels out there?

    Simon.

     mm inteersting one!

    Ok, Fujitsu make for the most part, in the Aviamo series ,the best plasma you can buy and its BV4/BS3 money They use panasonic glass but no expense is spared in the processing to make the very best picture one can get.They really are one of the few serious companies that wont release a product that is not quite good enough- very unusual these days. In fact a 50 in latest panel has been stopped as they did not feel a panel yet existed that was good enough to match the electronics that have been developed. With 1080 you need 50%more processing power.

    That said, Of all the professional home cinema installers who offer dedicated very high end set ups ( more cost than BnO)  all say that a very close second can be achieved with the panasonic commercial panel ( d9) and a high end processor such as Lumagen or Meridian.

    Its no coincidence that B&O obviously played around with the various options open to them , scrapped the crappy BS2 and came to the same conclusion and BS3 with panasonic glass was born!! having seen both- BnO have it about right -my only reservation is the present 1080 panel- not as good for colours. depth and movement as the D9 HD. Still that wil be rectified with the new varient panel from panasonic due spring next year which will offer what the rather rushed 1080 screen should have done in the first place!

  • 12-15-2007 7:03 PM In reply to

    Re: Plasma v lcd

    @355f - So would you wait and buy a BV9 later in the year?
  • 12-15-2007 11:40 PM In reply to

    Re: Plasma v lcd

    Terrapolitan:
    @355f - So would you wait and buy a BV9 later in the year?

    Yes! You won't have to wait too long.

    "We can rebuild him. We have the technology." 7-40, 7-2, 9000, BS3, BC2, LC2, BC6000, Beo5
  • 12-16-2007 4:11 AM In reply to

    Re: Plasma v lcd

    The Beonic Man:

    Terrapolitan:
    @355f - So would you wait and buy a BV9 later in the year?

    Yes! You won't have to wait too long.

    and autumn next gen....and spring 2009 next gen...............Whistle

    I have BV9 HD and the picture is amazingWink

  • 12-16-2007 8:12 AM In reply to

    • 355f
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    Re: Plasma v lcd

    ....mr anders(son):
    The Beonic Man:

    Terrapolitan:
    @355f - So would you wait and buy a BV9 later in the year?

    Yes! You won't have to wait too long.

    and autumn next gen....and spring 2009 next gen...............Whistle

    I have BV9 HD and the picture is amazingWink

    If you have a BV9 HD- yes the picture is probbaly the best out there. Whilst I agree with your sentiments about constant evolution it is true to say that the 1080 version of this panel was rushed out by panasonic to capture the 1080 market. The next version of this panel due next year will give 1080 but with all the advantages of the HD D9 panel which was truly superb.

  • 12-16-2007 10:10 AM In reply to

    Re: Plasma v lcd

    I'm a little bit confused. Are there two versions of the BV9, a 1080 and a HD? Or have I completely missed the point?
  • 12-16-2007 10:42 AM In reply to

    Re: Plasma v lcd

    Terrapolitan:
    I'm a little bit confused. Are there two versions of the BV9, a 1080 and a HD? Or have I completely missed the point?

     

    Not if you buy a new one. It first come in HD Ready an now it´s 1080P 

  • 12-17-2007 3:58 AM In reply to

    Re: Plasma v lcd

    The specs of the Samsung LE52F96BD (what's in a name?) are very impressive. I am sure it will deliver a great picture, but to be honest all the figures don't mean that much to me. I have to see it with my own eyes first. Until then, I favour plasma.

    Beoworld's twenty-eighth ninth prize winner and fifty-first second prize winner. Best £30 I've ever spent!

  • 12-17-2007 4:39 AM In reply to

    • 355f
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    Re: Plasma v lcd

    Beolab:

    Well if Samsung plasmas are anything to go by I wont be holding my breath for this product, lets hope their LCD will be better. I will reserve judgement untill Ive seen it at the show.

    Of course LED backlighting is the new '[marketing toy' for the brands. One can quote spectacular contrast ratios 50000-1!!!! The problem with this 'measure of performance' is that years ago- when brands were honest! the contrast ratio quoted was the 'running CR of the panel as one would watch it.

    Now for marketing purposes the contrast, backlight and sharpness are all turned to maximum- so you cant watch such a picture! and then a test singal issues black and white and the difference between the two gives contrast ratio.

    Now with superbright LED the whites will be like a beacon but because of LCD technlogy the blacks will be worse even though contast ratio appears to be 50 times higher than on present panels. Of course the advantage for manufacturing is that superbright led costs a lot less than the present technology so as manufactuers its even more profit for LCD in the future.

    Hope this makes sense!

    One last thing about reviews.  When I was at IFA I was with some tech jounalists and passing the Sony stand they all remarked how awfull the latest Sony LCD offerings were, especially the high end ones and yet- all perfect reviews when shown in the mags! they need jobs to!!

  • 12-17-2007 9:55 AM In reply to

    Re: Plasma v lcd

    from what i've gleaned the reason for using led as a backlight is twofold

    uniformity of brightness and greatly exceeded lifespan of the aforementioned backlight

    no matter how much you hate to admit it , plasma is considered an old technology by most consumers and lcd has totally owned the entire market , and with new developments coming all the time , backed up by the vast majority of manufacturers , somehow i think plasma will end up like laserdisc , if it hasn't already

    popgear is grate™

  • 12-17-2007 10:15 AM In reply to

    • Alex
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    Re: Plasma v lcd

    LED displays also have practically zero warm up time. The display on my old MacBook Pro (standard LCD display) took a minute or so before it reached full brightness/correct colour balance. My newer MacBook Pro (with an LED display) warms up in under a second, and is much MUCH brighter, much more even and also has a much longer batterylife...

     Weekly top artists:                   

  • 12-17-2007 10:45 AM In reply to

    • 355f
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    Re: Plasma v lcd

    Flappo The Grate:

    from what i've gleaned the reason for using led as a backlight is twofold

    uniformity of brightness and greatly exceeded lifespan of the aforementioned backlight

    no matter how much you hate to admit it , plasma is considered an old technology by most consumers and lcd has totally owned the entire market , and with new developments coming all the time , backed up by the vast majority of manufacturers , somehow i think plasma will end up like laserdisc , if it hasn't already

    LCD has owned the market because it costs 60% less than plasma to make! its all down to pricing and nothing else.Do you really think the consumer electronics industry is interested to provide products that last longer!! Plasma is considered old technology only by the consumers that are most ignorant of the facts!

    For computing its a different story LCD makes it cheap

    I

  • 12-17-2007 12:29 PM In reply to

    • Beolab
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    Re: Plasma v lcd

    The thing with the new Samsung LED LCD is the black level not the brightness level! The Samsung F96 can dim or even turn the LED lamp off.. = Zero black... The F96 consists of 400 LEDs and the processor have full control of every one!

    So the brightness level are the same as on average LCD with 500cd/m2.. I experienced  it yesterday and the picture was outstanding.. It´s looks pretty funny when you look at a pitch black scene.. The screen turn of the the hole panel for a tenth of a second.. = Pitch black...

     Take a look at your local dealer...

     

    Regards 

    BL8000 MkII Black

  • 12-17-2007 12:51 PM In reply to

    Re: Plasma v lcd

    Got this from Smarthouse News today:

     

    Is LCD TV Dead?

    David Richards - Monday, 17 December 2007

    A TV screen battle is set to break out at this year's CES, not between plasma and LCD but between OLED and LCD. So is LCD TV dead? Not according to Scott Birnbaum of Samsung.

    document.getElementById('tblArticleAd').style.display = document.getElementById('spnArticleAd').innerHTML.length==0 ? "none" : "block";

    A TV screen battle is set to break out at this year's CES, not between plasma and LCD but between OLED and LCD. So is LCD TV dead? Not according to Scott Birnbaum of Samsung.

    He is the vice president for liquid crystal displays sales  for Samsung Semiconductor. That unit of the South Korean electronics giant makes the panels used by sister company Samsung Electronics and other TV makers to build televisions, computers, cellphones and an expanding array of other gizmos.

    Indeed, Mr. Birnbaum's job is mainly to pitch his products to billboard companies. Samsung has a new line of panels that are more resistant to harsh weather and meant to be easier to see in bright sunlight.

    Like all semiconductor businesses, L.C.D. panels are subject to wide swings of supply and demand. These days, Mr. Birnbaum said, demand is outstripping supply and so profit margins are up nicely.


    "There weren't enough displays to go around," he said. Samsung, he said, has the largest market share for L.C.D. panels used in computer monitors and televisions.

     

    It takes 18 months and lot of money to build a new plant to make the panels. And a few years ago there was a glut of L.C.D.s on the market so many companies scaled back their investment. Samsung, however, along with Sony, built a new plant that opened in July in Samsung's vast L.C.D. compound in Tangjeong, South Korea. It is what is called a Generation 8 plant, meaning that it fabricates 8.2 foot wide glass sheets that can be cut efficiently into 50-inch panels. Those sizes are becoming every more popular as the prices go down (though not as fast as the prices have dropped in the past).

    The earlier Generation 7 plants are designed for 40-inch and 46-inch panels. Of course you can cut some 50- inch panels out of the big glass, but there is more waste.

    Why not cut the excess from those panels into smaller screens for laptops or even cell phones? Mr. Birnbaum said that the factories are not designed to do this. Indeed, despite the explosion of small gizmos with color screens—MP3 players, cellphones, digital picture frames and so on—supplies of smaller LCD panels are tight, with prices going up. Since all the new investment is going into factories to make the very largest televisions, he added, there is not much new capacity in the industry for smaller sized panels.

     

    "You can't build cellphones in a Gen 7 fab," he said. "This is creating problems for the industry because demand is increasing as is the amount of square millimeters required for the larger smart phones."
    Samsung is trying to insulate itself from discounting, he said, by emphasizing higher-end panels with extra features. For televisions, it has various technologies it claims make images brighter with more contrast and less blur. One example is using a checkerboard of light-emitting diodes to provide backlight for the screen (instead of fluorescent tubes). This allows the set to dim certain squares as needed to help make dark areas of the image blacker. These features, he said, can add 30 percent or more to the wholesale price of a panel.

    With the demand still high, Samsung can concentrate on these higher-margin products and not compete with the Taiwanese companies to supply panels to the low-price TV brands like Vizio.
    Mr. Birnbaum said he expects the good times to last, in part because customers are likely to replace their L.C.D. sets much more often than their old C.R.T. sets.

     

    "The difference between C.R.T. and L.C.D. is not how long the TV will last but how long is that technology good for," he said. "When you bought a C.R.T. TV, the only big change you saw was the change from black-and-white to color." L.C.D. sets are getting bigger, and increasing in resolution and quality, leading to a market similar to computers.

    "You may have bought a PC that will last for a long time, but the technology changes, and that's why you upgrade," he said.
    Mr. Birnbaum is looking toward a day when what is called high definition today is simply not good enough.
    "The next wave of resolution will be 8 times the resolution of H.D.," he predicted of high-definition sets, noting that Samsung expects to start making displays that are roughly 2000 pixels by 4000 pixels. The company hasn't started building a plant that would do this, but it is starting to talk about the idea with potential customers.

    "We're not trying to force the market to move," he said. "But sometimes technology surprises you and things pull in much quicker than you expect.

     

  • 12-17-2007 12:55 PM In reply to

    • SWISS_2
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    Re: Plasma v lcd

    Seven years ago, we had Plasma flatscreens everywhere at work ( Aerospace ). The screens were hot, could only be used in dark, low lumen, or non-lighted conditions, and suffered greatly from burn-in phantoms.

    Imagine looking at a 3-D soft imagery for detail items for any period of time, and having a new screen repaced constantly due to burn in.

    Five years ago, all Plasma screens were pulled and replaced by LED flatscreens. There was quite a bit of discussion about LCD versus LED, but the decision had been made at a much higher level after much testing. And after many years of use, the results ( as some have mentioned above ) are condiderably better.

    Instant on, bright colours, no burn-in, less heat emitted, no problem with lighting ( except direct sunlight ), and as the technology increases, much improved resolution. The various generational models of HDMI are well appreciated by all. The cost has dropped I'm told, as LED units are less expensive to manufacture, and as the units can be sold in greater volume, High Volume manufacturing adds another cost savings.

    I have both an older Gateway Plasma, and 2007 LED at home, and there is a noticeable difference in picture, use, heat, area lighting, and care. Audio is of course B & O.

    The Plasma has given us many hours of nightime ( or draw the vertical blinds ) entertainment and computer use over the years, and despite any problems other than heat, we know that well past the warranty expiration, the unit will be replaced someday in the near future.

    Unless thin-film HD screens become available soon, the replacement will be an LED flatscreen, which today ( 17.12.2007 ) is less than one fifth the cost of the original Plasma.

  • 12-17-2007 1:08 PM In reply to

    • 355f
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    Re: Plasma v lcd

    Beolab:

    The thing with the new Samsung LED LCD is the black level not the brightness level! The Samsung F96 can dim or even turn the LED lamp off.. = Zero black... The F96 consists of 400 LEDs and the processor have full control of every one!

    So the brightness level are the same as on average LCD with 500cd/m2.. I experienced  it yesterday and the picture was outstanding.. It´s looks pretty funny when you look at a pitch black scene.. The screen turn of the the hole panel for a tenth of a second.. = Pitch black...

     Take a look at your local dealer...

     

    Regards 

     

    is this the same 'pitch black' you expereince on the BV7 mk111!!!

  • 12-17-2007 2:58 PM In reply to

    • Beolab
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    Re: Plasma v lcd

    355f:
    Beolab:

    The thing with the new Samsung LED LCD is the black level not the brightness level! The Samsung F96 can dim or even turn the LED lamp off.. = Zero black... The F96 consists of 400 LEDs and the processor have full control of every one!

    So the brightness level are the same as on average LCD with 500cd/m2.. I experienced  it yesterday and the picture was outstanding.. It´s looks pretty funny when you look at a pitch black scene.. The screen turn of the the hole panel for a tenth of a second.. = Pitch black...

     Take a look at your local dealer...

     

    Regards 

     

    is this the same 'pitch black' you experience on the BV7 mk111!!!

    Hehe, so you think you are a funny now!?  We can discuss your plastic (Fiat) Ferrari 355 instead.. Have you bought it because you are in lack of the extra inches in the bed or what??? Or why are you always picking on me and my belongings?? I now there is much better speakers and TV:s but you don´t have to remind me in every sentence please..  

    Take a look here.. The original picture of BV7 Mark III .. It´s good for a LCD but bad for a plasma in your mind..

    I´m about to buy a BV9 and five BL5´s so you don´t have to pick on me every day, or what is the matter with you!??? 

     


    BL8000 MkII Black

  • 12-17-2007 3:03 PM In reply to

    • 355f
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    Re: Plasma v lcd

    Beolab:
    355f:
    Beolab:

    The thing with the new Samsung LED LCD is the black level not the brightness level! The Samsung F96 can dim or even turn the LED lamp off.. = Zero black... The F96 consists of 400 LEDs and the processor have full control of every one!

    So the brightness level are the same as on average LCD with 500cd/m2.. I experienced  it yesterday and the picture was outstanding.. It´s looks pretty funny when you look at a pitch black scene.. The screen turn of the the hole panel for a tenth of a second.. = Pitch black...

     Take a look at your local dealer...

     

    Regards 

     

    is this the same 'pitch black' you experience on the BV7 mk111!!!

    Hehe, so you think you are a funny now!?  We can discuss your plastic (Fiat) Ferrari 355 instead.. Have you bought it because you are in lack of the extra inches in the bed or??? 

    Take a look here..

     

    I sold it when realised that it was good to look at but under the bonnet lacked technical advances- rather like the bv7!

  • 12-17-2007 3:18 PM In reply to

    • Beolab
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    Re: Plasma v lcd

    I most say you did a smart move then..  ( That you sold it..)

    I´m about to sell one of my BV7´s also... But i don´t now what to buy to replace it.. I want something that is streets ahead.. Maybe the new 2008 - BV4 ?? 

     

    Regards

     

    BL8000 MkII Black

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