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Latest post 12-07-2007 3:34 AM by wirralsimon. 15 replies.
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  • 12-01-2007 9:33 PM

    • Turbo
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    • Sundsvall Sweden
    • Posts 67
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    Dissatisfaction with Beolab Penta2

    Bought a pair of Penta2 tonight, I have dreamed about owning a pair of pentas in any version since they were released. I have listened to Pentas several times and has always had feeling of "WOW". Of course I listened to the speakers before the purchase, but they were connected to a poor Yamaha DVD-system with a CD converted from MP3, so it was hard to get a fair idea of the sound quality. I inspected that the speaker elements not were dried out, they looked perfect, and tha bass was not a problem.

    They are now connected to my beosystem 7000 which sounds marvelous with my Bowers&Wilkins 602 Series3. But I am not at all happy with the sound quality with the Pentas. I really hope that it is not possible that the Pentas are that bad, or is it possible that the more modern B&Ws kick so much ass that the Pentas are just big and antique? The B&Ws are small and not that expensive.

    I really hoped that the pentas should sound at least as good as these. Looks are after all not everything...

     The bass is great, but I really miss the clarity of the sound, also feels like som high frequency is missing. The dynamic of the sound is not really as I remember it being when I listened to Pentas before.

     I had the same experience when I connected the B&Ws to the bs7000 after having a NAD system prior to the B&O. The simple solution to that was to connect the speakers to the speaker outlet without the mute function (relay). Oxidation in that circuit is quite common as I understand. After that simple "fix" it was like lifting a carpet from the speakers, the  music really loosened from the speakers and I was very impressed over the sound quality from the bs7000 compared to the prior NAD T753 which is a very good receiver.

    I will clean the powerlink connector pins on the bs tomorrow, and replace the cables with new ones. Is there something else I can do?  It would be a shame  to have to put these  beauty full speakers in the recycling bin....
     

    Jens Larsson Engine development engineer
  • 12-02-2007 4:13 AM In reply to

    Re: Dissatisfaction with Beolab Penta2

    Sounds to me that the Pentas need an service. You need to work out which bit. You can use them as passives by taking the amplifier off the bottom and there is simply a two wire connection to the cross over. Try using the BM7000 as the amplifier and see what you think. If it sounds the same or worse, try changing the components in the cross over. Obviously have a look at the drivers as well.

    If it sounds much better using the 7000, the amplifier needs servicing. That is not so easy!

    The service manuals should all be on site. 

     

  • 12-02-2007 7:13 AM In reply to

    Re: Dissatisfaction with Beolab Penta2

    If you are used to the brighter, more clinical sound of modern speakers then you are almost certainly not going to like pentas.

    It's quite OK not to like the penta sound. Like me, you should withstand the torrent of "abuse" directed at you by the majority on this site and just stick with what you like!

    Regards Graham

  • 12-02-2007 7:19 AM In reply to

    Re: Dissatisfaction with Beolab Penta2

    Laughing

    Pentas do have a warmer sound than the more modern speakers and are very much at their best when sitting down as the tweeters are then at ear level.

    In this case the OP had heard Pentas before and liked them so it would suggest that this pair have a problem. However as we always say, speakers are a matter of personal taste  and everyone has their own idea of what they want. At present, my favourites are M100s as they have a better top end and bass than my Pentas.

  • 12-02-2007 7:41 AM In reply to

    Re: Dissatisfaction with Beolab Penta2

    cough* Buy some 5000s *cough Whistle
  • 12-02-2007 10:37 AM In reply to

    • Turbo
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    • Sundsvall Sweden
    • Posts 67
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Dissatisfaction with Beolab Penta2

    Thank you for your input!

     Very good idea Peter! I know how the bm7000 sounds so I will connect it directly to the speakers. I also did some adjustments that improved the sound a little. I am embarrassed to say that I did not read the manual Embarrassed. I was very eager to try the Pentas and it was in the middle of the night. I had been driving 1300 kilometers for the purchase so I was high on caffeine and energy drinks....

     
    I discovered that the input level was not correct adjusted and both speakers were set as right channel! I must have had coffee in my ears not to have heard that it was in mono. I live in an  apartment so I could not play so loud in the middle of the night either.
     

    I have tried them out more now and I am still not so pleased. They are not as detailed as I would like to remember them, and that "clinical sound" someone mentioned is what I really miss compared to the B&Ws.

     I also need to adjust the treble +5 to make them sound okey. The bass is set to 0 and loudness off as I have had it before. That should not be necessary  in my opinion.

    Is there a "replacement kit" to buy for the capacitors in the pentas if I need to change them? I would also like to find a new "top plate" in stainless steel, there is an ugly dent in one of them.
     

    Jens Larsson Engine development engineer
  • 12-02-2007 11:28 AM In reply to

    • Graeme
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • Aberdeenshire Scotland
    • Posts 194
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Dissatisfaction with Beolab Penta2

    Hi, I have penta 3's and found that they to were lacking a bit in the top end. I found that its because they are too close to the wall (infact in a corner). I have no option but to put them where they are so I have to adjust the treble up to about 3 (this is playing through a Ouverture)

    Have you checked all the setting buttons on the amps because the bass setting have to be on minimum.

    hope this helps

    @graham dry your eyes mateLaughing

    Cheers Graeme
  • 12-03-2007 5:48 PM In reply to

    • Turbo
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    • Sundsvall Sweden
    • Posts 67
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Dissatisfaction with Beolab Penta2

    I have now tried to move them around and there is a difference to the better now. They are in a corner but 50cm from both walls, earlier, appr. 25cm. All settings are correct, and the bass is set to minimum.

    After having played them at least 10 hours since I bought them there also seem to have been som changes in the sound character that is not due to my adjustments. The treble has "woken up" a little and I have turned down the level a bit. The speakers have been standing in a cellar for 5 years before I got them, could perhaps have something to do with it.   

     The midrange and treble sounds unnatural in a way I can not accept. I have read the tread about the "high end pentas" and ICE-power conversion is interesting, however I still think there is something wrong with these. Capacitors in the filters is a possibility. I will update when I have tried out the speakers with the bm7000 as amplifier.
     

    Jens Larsson Engine development engineer
  • 12-04-2007 2:17 PM In reply to

    Re: Dissatisfaction with Beolab Penta2

  • 12-04-2007 3:28 PM In reply to

    • Graeme
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • Aberdeenshire Scotland
    • Posts 194
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Dissatisfaction with Beolab Penta2

    Turbo:

    I have now tried to move them around and there is a difference to the better now. They are in a corner but 50cm from both walls, earlier, appr. 25cm. All settings are correct, and the bass is set to minimum.

    After having played them at least 10 hours since I bought them there also seem to have been som changes in the sound character that is not due to my adjustments. The treble has "woken up" a little and I have turned down the level a bit. The speakers have been standing in a cellar for 5 years before I got them, could perhaps have something to do with it.   

     The midrange and treble sounds unnatural in a way I can not accept. I have read the tread about the "high end pentas" and ICE-power conversion is interesting, however I still think there is something wrong with these. Capacitors in the filters is a possibility. I will update when I have tried out the speakers with the bm7000 as amplifier.
     

    If they have been stored in a cellar for 5 years, the drivers will be damp from the coldness, and the improvement without your adjustments will be them drying out/warming up. But a service and a change of caps could well help a lot too.

    Cheers Graeme
  • 12-04-2007 5:32 PM In reply to

    • Turbo
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    • Joined on 04-18-2007
    • Sundsvall Sweden
    • Posts 67
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Dissatisfaction with Beolab Penta2

    The cellar was dry but a little cold, the time they were left unused was obviously enough to make them sad! They still are sounding better and better, I have the B&Ws as reference so I know I am not imagining. Changing the capacitors in the filters seems like straight forward, found some information about that.

    Martin, I do unfortunately not speak German at all, so I do not understand. I tried to translate with babelfish but that did not work as usually...

    Some OP-amplifiers are replaced, which ones? I am experienced with electronics and soldering so changing components is not a problem. I have the circuit diagrams. Thank you all for helping me with this!

     

    Jens Larsson Engine development engineer
  • 12-04-2007 6:28 PM In reply to

    Re: Dissatisfaction with Beolab Penta2

    Hi Turbo and Martin (Die_Bogener)

     Im a proud owner of a pair of BeoLab Penta 1 and i would be very interested in a english manual on how to change the capacitors on a BeoLab Penta. I however arent a skilled solder but then i can get help doing it for me. Wich capacitors should one change and some pics would be very nice :D

     Thanx in advance

     Jesper L

    Sweden

     

     

     

  • 12-04-2007 7:40 PM In reply to

    Re: Dissatisfaction with Beolab Penta2

    B&O have never been at the cutting edge of speaker design wrt sound quality (excluding the daleks.. which *are* excellent, but at a premium). If you can find a pair, the JM Lab 905 will blow you away. One of their more affordable models, but trickle-down technology from their more expensive series means you get *very* close to a Utopia at a fraction of the cost. Somehow everything about this design hangs together magically. It really is the bargain of the century, but not worth discussing at length since they are hard to find (few will part with them :))
  • 12-06-2007 4:34 PM In reply to

    • Turbo
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 04-18-2007
    • Sundsvall Sweden
    • Posts 67
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Dissatisfaction with Beolab Penta2

    Ilikehifi:
    B&O have never been at the cutting edge of speaker design wrt sound quality (excluding the daleks.. which *are* excellent, but at a premium). If you can find a pair, the JM Lab 905 will blow you away. One of their more affordable models, but trickle-down technology from their more expensive series means you get *very* close to a Utopia at a fraction of the cost. Somehow everything about this design hangs together magically. It really is the bargain of the century, but not worth discussing at length since they are hard to find (few will part with them :))
    If I wanted the best sound for the money, I would not be here and I would not have bought the pentas :-)

    But I love Pentas and the whole "package" from B&O in that era. I want to make the best of them and I know they can perform better.

    I have tried connecting them directly to the bm7000 and the sound actually got a little worse, not a huge difference but clearly noticeable.

    I am going for the capacitor- replacement, probably during Christmas weekend :-)   The update in the Beolab amp is also intresting, Please! -Die Bogener, help!

     MoglesMac, there is no manual for replacing the capacitors! this thread deals a little with the subject: http://forum.beoworld.org/forums/thread/56578.aspx

    One warning before ordering capacitors!!!! There is (at least) 2 different versions of the filters, my Penta2 seems to have the newer version with 2,2ohm resistor. That version is displayed in my link. The older version has many different components, capacitors, coils and resistors. That circuit diagram can be studied in the work shop manual. You can down load if you are a gold memberWink
     

    Jens Larsson Engine development engineer
  • 12-06-2007 6:13 PM In reply to

    Re: Dissatisfaction with Beolab Penta2

    Thanx for the link Turbo :D, im a silvermember and have downloaded servicemanual for Penta 1 so i think i have the info i need but one can never get to much info.... i think :D or maybe u can...

     

    MoglesMac

    Sweden 

  • 12-07-2007 3:34 AM In reply to

    Re: Dissatisfaction with Beolab Penta2

    I know Martin (username Dillen) does capacitor kits for the older Beovox  speakers because I have used them with excellent results in my s45-2's

     It is probably worth sending him a PM to see if he does kits for the Pentas as well.

     Simon

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