Hi everyone, I would really value your opinions ona problem that is puzzling me:-

After years of careful saving, I'm now finally able to replace my 1970's/80's B&O system (BeoMaster 1900 amp, BeoGram 1102 turntable and RedLine 60 speakers) with a new system.  First choice for the source was the BeoSound 9000, as the design and features are superb.  But then came the big question - which speakers?

As the BeoLab 5's and 9's are out of my budget, I tried the "next best thing", ie. BeoLab 8000's, which do look very nice alongside the multi-CD 9000 source.  However, I was not too happy with the sound they produced, particularly when I heard them alongside my existing RedLines - so I'm keen to hear your opinions in case there's something wrong with my ears!

Firstly, I know this isn't a true "like for like" comparison, as one speaker is passive and the other is active, but I used the BeoSound 9000 driving a good quality amp to power the RedLines, so any difference should be down to the speakers.  The RedLine 60's have had the capacitors upgraded recently, all drive units checked and the auxiliary bass radiator upgraded to a tuned bass port via the proper B&O kit.  They do sound good, however, I didn't expect them to sound better than new B&O 8000's (apparently these had been "run in" to settle the sound and were working properly).

Basically, the new 8000's didn't seem to have the same bass extension or treble clarity as the RedLines, with Madonna's "Sorry" losing part of the walking bass line in the chorus (due to the active bass filters?)  Also, Savage Garden's "Affirmation" normally has a nice clean electronic cymbal beat that lost its usual highs through the 8000's.  Whilst the new speakers sounded generally "warm" and pleasant with classical and jazz (Handel's "Messiah" and Cab Calloway's "Minnie the Moocher" amongst others), I was really disappointed that they didn't seem to cope with modern pop or dance music (my musical tastes are very broad!)  For reference, all tone controls and loudness were switched off for the test, with low to medium volume levels used.

The bottom line is that I will get the BeoSound 9000 CD player whatever happens.  However, if I can't find a new pair of B&O speakers that can beat my RedLines for less than £3000, then I will have to keep my existing speakers and get an external amplifier (and that means my wife will probably kill me, as she hates the design of the RedLines!)

Where do I go from here?  Please help, as I really expected B&O speakers to have improved over the past 30 years - or am I doing something wrong?

Many thanks,

Steve.

Steve,

your ears tell the truth, the redline 60 have the better sound. More bass, very clear and clean, i like the redlines very much... the speakers have a cabinet with much more space and the bass speaker is much bigger. Also the small BL8000 alumenum cabinett makes the speakers somehow  cold, the same problem with the big BL1... Pentas are better. 

 The redline60 are better than the BL8000. If you upgrade to polycarbonate capacitors in the filters, they even come very close to the Penta III... but with soundtuning every B&O loadspeaker can be improved significantly.

 Martin

Steve.
Have you considered going for some Beolab Penta's
In my opinion they are the best speakers you can get for under a grand.
I have them as fronts and Beolab 8000s as rears.
They have tremedous sound and are aesthetically pleasing too.
I will never part with mine.
Just my opinion, mind. Others may disagree.

Andy T.

stevem:

Hi everyone, I would really value your opinions ona problem that is puzzling me:-

After years of careful saving, I'm now finally able to replace my 1970's/80's B&O system (BeoMaster 1900 amp, BeoGram 1102 turntable and RedLine 60 speakers) with a new system.  First choice for the source was the BeoSound 9000, as the design and features are superb.  But then came the big question - which speakers?

As the BeoLab 5's and 9's are out of my budget, I tried the "next best thing", ie. BeoLab 8000's, which do look very nice alongside the multi-CD 9000 source.  However, I was not too happy with the sound they produced, particularly when I heard them alongside my existing RedLines - so I'm keen to hear your opinions in case there's something wrong with my ears!

Firstly, I know this isn't a true "like for like" comparison, as one speaker is passive and the other is active, but I used the BeoSound 9000 driving a good quality amp to power the RedLines, so any difference should be down to the speakers.  The RedLine 60's have had the capacitors upgraded recently, all drive units checked and the auxiliary bass radiator upgraded to a tuned bass port via the proper B&O kit.  They do sound good, however, I didn't expect them to sound better than new B&O 8000's (apparently these had been "run in" to settle the sound and were working properly).

Basically, the new 8000's didn't seem to have the same bass extension or treble clarity as the RedLines, with Madonna's "Sorry" losing part of the walking bass line in the chorus (due to the active bass filters?)  Also, Savage Garden's "Affirmation" normally has a nice clean electronic cymbal beat that lost its usual highs through the 8000's.  Whilst the new speakers sounded generally "warm" and pleasant with classical and jazz (Handel's "Messiah" and Cab Calloway's "Minnie the Moocher" amongst others), I was really disappointed that they didn't seem to cope with modern pop or dance music (my musical tastes are very broad!)  For reference, all tone controls and loudness were switched off for the test, with low to medium volume levels used.

The bottom line is that I will get the BeoSound 9000 CD player whatever happens.  However, if I can't find a new pair of B&O speakers that can beat my RedLines for less than £3000, then I will have to keep my existing speakers and get an external amplifier (and that means my wife will probably kill me, as she hates the design of the RedLines!)

Where do I go from here?  Please help, as I really expected B&O speakers to have improved over the past 30 years - or am I doing something wrong?

Many thanks,

Steve.

 

Firstly I would suggest that the material you are listening to does not really suit that type of speaker. Its more suited to classical and 'lighter music' IMO

Secondly, you have to remember that the BL8000 are now 17 years old, the aluminum tube is not the best medium one would use for sound they have small 4in paper drivers of lowish quality and the amp was average in its day and apart from a minor change a few years ago to stop overdriving the units- nothing has changed.

They look pretty though! but reality is B&O has pushed the price up of these so far that now its very difficult to justify the purchase just because they look good! I had the redllines many years ago and changed them for the 8000- that was a mistake! since got rid of 8000 to!

 

Why not look at pentas?

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the quick and honest replies - I thought it seemed strange that the BL8000's couldn't match my RedLines!  I think I've really got two sensible options now - either keep the RedLines (and risk my wife's anger!) or audition some Pentas.  Sounds like a trip to Lifestyle AV or MoreThan AV is on the cards.......  I'll try to find some good active (ie. BeoLab not BeoVox) ones without the foam rot, if possible.

Thanks again (you guys have saved me about £2000!),

Steve.

I've never owned BL8000's (although I have heard them in store) but I have owned both redline 60.2's & penta's and have to agree that the penta's just blow the redlines into the next county

Personally I think redline 60's are very underrated speakers but as with you Steve my wife hated the design so she they had to go.

Penta's are easily the best value speakers around at current prices IMO. The only slight problem may be foam rot in the mid range drivers but these are still available from B&O and worth replacing for future proofing.

Chris.

I must say that I have never heard 8000's described as "warm". My impression of them is that they are usually "cold" and "clinical" when compared to what might be described as "old fashioned" passive speakers.

Are you sure that the tweeters were working? You may find this hard to believe but many people have been listening to their 8000's or 6000's for years with the tweeters blown and don't realise!!!! They certainly sound warm then.

You will be hard pressed to find a pair of Pentas without foam rot. Not the end of the world but you should budget £200 to replace the midrange units if you decide to go down this route.

What about  a pair of Beolab 3?

Cheers, Laurent.

Steve.
Spotted these on eBay
Reputable dealer too.

Andy T.

matheyl:

What about  a pair of Beolab 3?

Cheers, Laurent.

+1

Beolab 3 = more bass and clarity than 8000=what you are searching for? (size doesn't matter!!!!)

Hi everyone, thanks for all the replies!

My local friendly B&O dealer have said that they expect to have a pair of BeoLab Pentas coming in part-ex soon, so they will give me first refusal.  I'll also ask them for a comparison with the BL3's when I go in.  I've said to them that I would ideally like to buy the speakers as a package with the BeoSound 9000 that I want, so they have been very helpful in locating some Pentas for me.  If that doesn't work out, I'll try ringing around the other dealers and the second-user specialists.

I'll let you know what the final decision is in a few weeks!

Steve.

matheyl:

What about  a pair of Beolab 3?

Cheers, Laurent.

That is what I wanted to propose too. If BL5 and 9 is out of reach and the BL8000 doesn't suit, the only option in the actual range is BL3.

But what about changing the music system? I think BS4 + BL9 is not much more expensive than BS9000 + BL8000...

Agreed, and the BeoSound 4 is a very nice unit indeed, it's got 'wow factor' although not in the same way as the 9000 (it's more discreet). BeoLab 9s are better than Pentas, and you'd probably find this is the best setup sonically. It's likely to be more expensive, but it'd be worth it. BeoLab 9s need to be set up correctly (usually they end up sounding boomy), and when they are sounding as they should, they sound wonderful.

Steve, I'll lay odds that, once you've heard the Pentas, you'll buy them
Take your own CDs or DVDs with you and don't be afraid to crank up the volume.
Good luck mate!

Andy T.

I agree, the Pentas really are a pretty phenomenal pair of speakers. Up until B&O released the BeoLab 9s, the Pentas were the best speakers B&O had made bar the 5s. I think the 9s are superior though, better bass extension, far better high-frequency (the Pentas can sound a bit too 'fluffy' by today's standards). Only thing the Pentas have over the 9s is the height of the sound stage, although that's more a bi-product of the fact that the 9's acoustic lenses make sure you get minimal ceiling reflections.

Hi everyone,

Thanks again for all the ideas!  The reason I had to ignore the BL9's is that we have a toddler in the house - that acoustic lens is just at eye level for our resident "explorer", with a very inviting soft dome tweeter just within reach inside......  At least with the Pentas, the grilles protect the drivers to some extent and I understand that these can be changed/removed for cleaning if required.  (At present, my RedLines are up on the wall out of harm's way!)

If the Pentas meet my expectations sonically, I'm planning to use some of the money I save (against the original planned BL8000's) to buy several very large, heavy soft toys to block our daughter's route to the speakers!

As an aside, I did look at getting a cheaper source unit, but I just know I would look at it every day and think "I could have had a BeoSound 9000" - and that's the decider really.  Plus, the multi-CD unit fits perfectly with my lifestyle, ie. fill with disks at the start of the evening, press "Play" and relax..........

Cheers,

Steve.

stevem:

If the Pentas meet my expectations sonically, I'm planning to use some of the money I save (against the original planned BL8000's) to buy several very large, heavy soft toys to block our daughter's route to the speakers!

So basically you've found an inexpensive way to change the acoustic properties of the room. Soft toys everywhere...  

I must admit to be very suprised having read this thread - I was certainly under the impression that BL8000's would be a significant increase in sound quality to RL60's, given the general opinion of members, while the Pentas, although very highly regarded, won't suit many a requirment because of their bulk. I too auditioned 8000's not so long ago, albeit in store, and was impressed by the sound (although I never got as far as auditioning in my own home, alongside my own RL60's). From the old site I gathered the consensus was that the RL60 was the entry level "serious" speaker of the range in its day as opposed to RL35/45 which were aimed more at link rooms and sound reinforcement roles whereas the RL140 was the (by far) better serious speaker. It seems here that the agreement is that the RL60 is a serious contender (and arguably better than the BL8000). While the styling of the 8000 is beyond question (to most) I'm still amazed that its performance is that close to an RL60 especially given the price of the BL8000's.

Its a shame none of the RL family were involved in the speaker shoot out in Newcastle for a comparative review.

Hi Puncher,

I'm not sure what general opinions of the RedLine 60 are, but I LOVE them!  I know they don't quite have the same bass weight or overall tone of the 140, but when properly upgraded (ie. bass port instead of ABR, plus 250 volt uprated capacitors), the original mk.1 RL60 can really sing.  Their only real failings are their sensitivity to room placement (although this was their main selling point!) and their appearance.  After many weeks of annoying my wife by carefully moving "those bl**dy great ugly things" (her quote, not mine!) a few inches and then listening, before carefully moving them a bit more, I can confirm that their positioning is critical to their sound quality.  They also make great AV speakers with (shock, horror!) the Loudness control switched on.......

I admit to being really disappointed after an hour of serious listening to some new BL8000's at the Derby showroom recently, as I love their styling and I SOOOO wanted them to sound good enough to buy!  Acoustic, jazz and light classical music seemed to quite suit them, but they really struggled with the same beat-driven dance tracks that could make the RedLines come alive.  It's hard to define what makes the RedLines so good, but since I got them I find I'm singing along to the tracks that I didn't used to like and even dancing around the room at times, before I realise what I'm doing......

I'm due to audition some mk.3 Pentas next Tuesday at another B&O dealer, and my experience with the 8000's has taught me to be cautious and try not to "judge the book by its cover".  I last heard Pentas in action almost 20 years ago at a B&O launch in the Great Hall at Belvoir Castle (Leicestershire) as an impoverished student and I was absolutely awestruck.  Now that I can finally afford a pair, I'm hoping I can re-create that same feeling at home, every day!

Here's to the love of music and the quest for perfection......

Steve.

I too had to replace my ABR's with the tuned port conversion some years ago and, I'm ashamed to say, I've had a capacitor kit to refresh the crossovers since some time around Christmas and haven't yet got around to doing it yet! The plan was (is) to measure the freqency response before and after (with the limited kit I've got) to try to demonstrate the level of improvement - unfortunately my wife won't leave me to my own devices for a whole day (in an empty house) to do it. I will post the results when I get around to doing it.

I also have a spare pair of tuned port conversions if anyone else is interested as I ordered anoher pair around christmas time as I was told that they were making the ABR's again (wrongly as it turned out).

My RL60's deinitely sounded better when they were wall mounted than they do now on floor stands (a concession to getting rid of them completely - our wives must be related).

 

hI

I've got a pair of redline 60 speakers aswell type 6503

abr is rattling.I never touched the speakers.

adviSe me how to change the abr to the bass port AND where to I get this.

the capictors are still original .should I change this.

 

Please help as I am very disapointed with speaker in terms the bass.note clarity is perfect but bass no no

 tHANK YOU

BRADLEY(STARDUST)

HI im interested in your tuned port.

i need to improve my speakers type 6503

email me : soulbrother@webmail.co.za

is gives terrible bass

stardust

hI

Im interested in purchasing you port kit

email me : soulbrother@webmail.co.za

stardust

STARDUST:

hI

Im interested in purchasing you port kit

email me : soulbrother@webmail.co.za

stardust

Hi Bradley,

I have emailed you with details of the "port kit" that I have, the B&O part number for the replacements is 8480128. They were certainly available from the dealer on the 4th Jan 2007, when these were purchased (at a cost of £58.24). They are for RL60 type 6503 and convert from ABR to a tuned port bass system.

HI steve im going to go with option nuber 3 im gonna ask my B&O dealer for the Tuned Port ki, do they still produce the  Tuned Port kits??

 

 

Thanks very much