Bingo:

It is really a big shame and respectless to all buyers that they just made a box around a Philips DVD/harddisk recorder with just a almost useless analogue tuner and then ask four times the price !!!!

And really, can  't you program it with a timer record? What is the use of the product then?

B&O gets more and more focussing on the people who know nothing about it and just wanne flaunt with their products. 

How low can you fall.......   

 

 

In the economic circumstances that have existed over the past few years B&O can continue to do this and quite succesfully.

For example does the purchaser of a BV9 care if its costs £15000 or £18000??? no they dont and while that fact persists B&O can continue to debase the company.

Its such a pity that I see the end of B&O as we used to know it.

I'm interested to see how the dealers will be trained to justify the difference between the DVD2 and the HDR2, seems the HDR2 costs a shade more. "Oh it's because the DVD2 is actually a Philips machine" I'll take the HDR2 please. Before more of B&O's electronics become re-cased, half-arsed electronics with a zero added to the end of each price tag.

David:

I'm interested to see how the dealers will be trained to justify the difference between the DVD2 and the HDR2, seems the HDR2 costs a shade more. "Oh it's because the DVD2 is actually a Philips machine" I'll take the HDR2 please. Before more of B&O's electronics become re-cased, half-arsed electronics with a zero added to the end of each price tag.

Well with the 'new B&O' the dealers are trined to sell the products as if it were a prestigous brand like LV or ferrari. They dont have to justify anything! one could have used he same argument for the BS3000 with hrd disc.  Buyer- how do you have  visual recognition as to what you have placed on the disc? salesman- well you write it down in the book B&O supply with it!!

However, there is still the impeccable Beovision 9/3/ Avant, Beolab 5/9/3 etc, Beo 5, Beosound 2, Beosystem 3 and so on, that are infallible and are indeed worthy of the large price tag. It is these couple of new products that worry me of what the future holds in the land of B&O.

David:

However, there is still the impeccable Beovision 9/3/ Avant, Beolab 5/9/3 etc, Beo 5, Beosound 2, Beosystem 3 and so on, that are infallible and are indeed worthy of the large price tag. It is these couple of new products that worry me of what the future holds in the land of B&O.

I agree butmany of the products you mention are past glories from the 'old B&O' avant, 3 beos 2.

So in terms of new products worthy of the price we have the BV9, beloab 3/5/9 BS3 and thats about it.

There are other fantastic products in the range, such as the BeoSound 4, 9000, BeoVision 7 and BeoCenter 6. The BeoVision 8 is also fantastic, but doesn't have the true class a B&O product normally does, and still isn't exactly 'cheap'. It's still a fantastic TV though.

Although I agree, some things are massively overpriced or in need of an update (technology does move along, despite what some B&O products would try and tell you).

Alex:

There are other fantastic products in the range, such as the BeoSound 4, 9000, BeoVision 7 and BeoCenter 6. The BeoVision 8 is also fantastic, but doesn't have the true class a B&O product normally does, and still isn't exactly 'cheap'. It's still a fantastic TV though.

Although I agree, some things are massively overpriced or in need of an update (technology does move along, despite what some B&O products would try and tell you).

 

You have used BV8 as an example and it highly relevant to the 'new' B&O made entirely in China in a so so factory ( ask me how I know) at a LOW price to be sold in the uk for 6 times the price with no DVB and average performance. beovision 7 only looks good if you dont turn it on

Mr10Percent:

It is often said that there is only a few inches of difference between a pat on the back and big kick up the ar5e. However, the feeling is a world apart.

What I see here is a missed opportunity for a really really truely great B&O classic and 90% of the bits are probably there (plus a bit of an upgrade). Forget all this DVD recording, HD video storage. There is that much crap on TV and most of it is repeated you really dont need to record it IMOH

What I think there is a need for is to call this product Beomedia2.

Install a really good optical CD drive.

Install really good DACs and electronics.

Couple it to a mega harddrive and Beomedia/Windows OS

Install your usual ML and PL connects. Scart even for the TV driven display.

Now you have a world-class audiophile ripper at full lossless connected via beomedia to masterlink.

That would be worth something would'nt it?

10% 

 

Spot on in my opinion.

But i doubt B&O now will develop such a product when they can have cheap product manufactured in china and rebadge other items withthe B&O logo with little effort to make it integrated. Then ask six times the price for it.

the only products worthy of the B&O name that have been produced recently are bl3/5/9  BS3 and BV9

355f:

the only products worthy of the B&O name that have been produced recently are bl3/5/9  BS3 and BV9

As we all know, for a lot of people B&O represents just a brand that makes technically outdated products at a shocking price, with just some aluminium and special design. With those products we were able, as beofans, to show to everybody that B&O was the contrary to what they thought : outstanding quality in picture, sound, craftmanship... And we were a really good way to promote the brand, for free! (French forums guys, including me, even went to a french audiophile forum (la quete du graal) and made them listen to the 3's, which, unexpectedly, they really liked)

Now with the latest products (DVD2, Beosound 6...) B&O is just starting to demolish the whole new image they started to have, and confirm to people what they thought : rebadged Philips/Samsung, for ten times the price. That's a shame.

mbee:

355f:

the only products worthy of the B&O name that have been produced recently are bl3/5/9  BS3 and BV9

As we all know, for a lot of people B&O represents just a brand that makes technically outdated products at a shocking price, with just some aluminium and special design. With those products we were able, as beofans, to show to everybody that B&O was the contrary to what they thought : outstanding quality in picture, sound, craftmanship... And we were a really good way to promote the brand, for free! (French forums guys, including me, even went to a french audiophile forum (la quete du graal) and made them listen to the 3's, which, unexpectedly, they really liked)

Now with the latest products (DVD2, Beosound 6...) B&O is just starting to demolish the whole new image they started to have, and confirm to people what they thought : rebadged Philips/Samsung, for ten times the price. That's a shame.

I feel I must comment about this since I have such a passion for the B&O brand. I honestly feel so sad to see such a fall in design and quality from B&O in recent years. All the comments made so far from people echo my own thoughts which include the lack of advance in design (by this I mean a lack of innovation and strong design statement); mid range third party parts being used; products assembled outside of Denmark; and generally, nothing exciting to talk about. What I find so difficult to come to terms with is how B&O, a company that has worked so hard over so many years to collect (deservedly) so many awards en-route, can let its standards drop so much. This is unthinkable after all their achievements.

The blame must surely lay with Western society, of which I of course am a part. It has become so capitalist and so money hungry/driven that all that matters to people now is to try and be 'better' than the next person. We are constantly striving to find ways to stand out from the next person, to have something more than they have. Its pyschological I suppose and the method we adopt to identify ourselves in the big wide world. People buy bigger and better houses, or cars (not forgetting the personalised number plate to reaffirm their identity), our stereo equipment - this is where B&O comes in, and many many more examples. As I said, I have also become part of this silly situation by buying into it in a way to also establish myself in the world. However, there is an important difference in that I have always admired the B&O product for reasons mentioned earlier, so it is not always the case of wanting B&O to show it off, although the two obviously go hand in hand.

Since I have become sucked into this Western way, it doesn't seem fair to criticise B&O as they too want (and need) to see their profits go higher and higher. I just think its a tragic shame, for all of us. Is this the direction that the founders originally envisaged? Is it what they believed in their hearts B&O represented? If it was, then fine, but if not, then changes are needed. We know that money is the route of all evil, and it is, it really is. The more you have the more you want. Never satisifed, whether in business or personally. I am not necessarily making a point either way. Interpret what I have written as you see fit.

Simon.

I agree completely.

 

 

All very valid points about the western society.However my concern is firstly, will the smaller dealers who are part of the franchised network survive long term with the present B&O policy?? the answer HAS to be NO they wont. The few really good products that B&O do are to expensive for dealers to sell in quantity to survive. And the indivduals that previously bought B&O are not any longer convinced of its merits; There are also those that bought BV5 and BV4 and early BV7 that find they paid a fortune and now its worth next to nothing- they wont come back for a second helping. .

Secondly, when the economy ceases to grow and the housing market becomes tougher ( as is already the case in USA and parts of europe) will B&O survive as a company with the policies they presently have??

Whilst we accept that outsourcing has to take place to be a worldwide player- its the wholescale movement of product manufacture that I find unnaceptable given the fact that B&O dont lower the price to allow true entry level products. So we have the 26in bv8 that costs more than a 50 pinoeer plasma which is five times better!

B&O has always been expensive but with the likes of the Avant for example it still represented the best in sound and vision- for double the price of its nearest competition. Now customers are asked to pay SEVEN times the price for a product that neither looks good, does not offer the integration that one would like and does not perform as good as even a major brand entry product( which in fact B&O is offering with these new additions)

B&O is taking the p... with these products and the result will be not the 'cool brand' award but a deimised one

True, it has been twenty years ago at least, that B&O had the best picture quality.

And look what a current 50 inch Pioneer plasma (not even full HD!!)  can do for €4000,- !! :

http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/images/uk/kuro/reviews.html

 

I hope one day Bang & Olufsen can do the same.

Bingo:

True, it has been twenty years ago at least, that B&O had the best picture quality.

And look what a current 50 inch Pioneer plasma (not even full HD!!)  can do for €4000,- !! :

http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/images/uk/kuro/reviews.html

 

I hope one day Bang & Olufsen can do the same.

 

Ah!! but this is a different argument! the fact that you can buy a pioneer screen for £3000 and the BV9 costs £15000 is not relevant. if you use this debate there would be NO premium brands in ANY sector!! The B&O buyer will pay the £15K or £18K and the fact is the bv9 is a great product.

I think its a mistake to make these comparisons and say that B&O doesnt offer any good products and that they are all too expensive because they are one of the few electronics companies to still make a profit!

Regarding the Pioneer and all the hype that surrounds it; I had a chance today to see the latest pioneer screen and the previous geenration pioneer and to be honest there wasnt much difference except that the price of the older version was £1200 less.

Now most pioneer buyers will pay the extra £1500 to get the 'slighly better one' and B&O buyers will pay £10,000 to get the slighly better B&O - its all relative to incomes.

My opinion is likely to step out of line in this thread.

I don't quite see it why people are getting so upset about the fact that DVD2 is a rebadged product and predicting the end of the world because of that. I fully understand it if B&O is unable to cover the whole range of audio/video products with its own production and has to outsource a part of it. In the products being praised here as "genuine B&O", third-party components are used as well (e.g. plasma/LCD screens, CD drives, etc.) and nobody feels upset about it. OK, with DVD2 B&O may have taken an easier way, but visually it is still a B&O design. B&O must have had its reasons why they have chosen Philips and not Pioneer or Panasonic and I doubt that the only consideration has been to ensure the lowest cost of production. If DVD2 proves to be a flop, people will not buy it and it will be simply phased out as it has been the case with some previous products, and it will in no way mean the end of B&O.

I am going to buy a DVD2 because I need an external DVD player/recorder to complement my BC6 and prefer an integrated solution with a matching visual design rather than buying an "original" Philips with an additional remote control. I will need it to play CDs/DVDs and make some occasional recordings from a camcorder. I don't care if it has a digital tuner (it would be useless in Switzerland anyway because you always need a set-top box from the provider) and if it has a timer recording (90% of what is broadcast on TV is not worth recording anyway). I also don't really care how big a proportion of third-party components inside is as long as the product meets the quality requirements.

@ Beonic Man: I doubt that the Western society, especially in Europe, has become more capitalist. On the contrary, I think in the last decades it has become more socialist, less competitive and less performance-oriented. Maybe this is one of the reasons why the quality is suffering...

beodim:

My opinion is likely to step out of line in this thread.

I don't quite see it why people are getting so upset about the fact that DVD2 is a rebadged product and predicting the end of the world because of that. I fully understand it if B&O is unable to cover the whole range of audio/video products with its own production and has to outsource a part of it. In the products being praised here as "genuine B&O", third-party components are used as well (e.g. plasma/LCD screens, CD drives, etc.) and nobody feels upset about it. OK, with DVD2 B&O may have taken an easier way, but visually it is still a B&O design. B&O must have had its reasons why they have chosen Philips and not Pioneer or Panasonic and I doubt that the only consideration has been to ensure the lowest cost of production. If DVD2 proves to be a flop, people will not buy it and it will be simply phased out as it has been the case with some previous products, and it will in no way mean the end of B&O.

I am going to buy a DVD2 because I need an external DVD player/recorder to complement my BC6 and prefer an integrated solution with a matching visual design rather than buying an "original" Philips with an additional remote control. I will need it to play CDs/DVDs and make some occasional recordings from a camcorder. I don't care if it has a digital tuner (it would be useless in Switzerland anyway because you always need a set-top box from the provider) and if it has a timer recording (90% of what is broadcast on TV is not worth recording anyway). I also don't really care how big a proportion of third-party components inside is as long as the product meets the quality requirements.

@ Beonic Man: I doubt that the Western society, especially in Europe, has become more capitalist. On the contrary, I think in the last decades it has become more socialist, less competitive and less performance-oriented. Maybe this is one of the reasons why the quality is suffering...

 

I think most appreciate that B&O cant invest in the manufacture of plasma and LCD!! so i has to be sourced, and then they do their best to make it as good as they can, provide integration and package it so it looks quality and that what one pays for.

 

Maybe I have different design tastes- can someone tell me what is 'design' about the large rather ugly HDR2 Box/DVD2 BOX??

Whilst one realises that the dvd2 might be ideal in the situation you mention- it would seem you only want to use it occasionally!! ( which is just as well) it is a product that is next to useless for the UK market( which is the 2nd largest after the home market) 

Whilst you might not care of the degree of third party components in it, providing it meets quality requirements- the only quality requirements this product passes are those of an entry level phillips brand - B&O need more cutsomers with the same thought process. So on these and many products we have no design input, very little technical input, sourced entirely as a package from a lower end brand and priced at EIGHT times the price!! Oh well B&O can 'phase it out' together with many other newer products- and then what?? do the same again?  once one accepts this ethos as a principle of business I fear the worst!

Yikes guys, didn't your teachers show you how to sumarise?! Getting very long winded there Of course, most of B&O products are just amazing (i forgot about the BS 9000 and BS4), but in my opinion, i can't rememer who just said it, but he is right is saying the latest two products are confirming what the skeptics say about B&O. Re-cased average consumer electronics with ten times the price. Who spends their hard earned on that that? Not me!! As the skeptics say, only the people with more dollars than cents buy this. Do B&O head quarters realise that they're insulting our intelligence?

Hard to judge without having/testing the product actually.

For me, it does not really matter who exactly did produce the different parts of the B&O hardware, as long as it meets the high quality standarts one can expect from B&O. If it would be true that the whole thing is just an reboxed "normal" dvd recorder, this is really a shame indeed. But actually we have to wait and see how the features will be, then it's possible to say how this product is.

For me, it would actually be better if i knew, that the whole B&O stuff is produced in Stuer by B&O itself. But i also know that this is not really possible. So what i hope is, that B&O keeps up with it's design, quality, ease of use and style. Just reboxing can't be the way. As i say: Innovate don't imitate  ');" title="Wink - ">

morning peeps

 little story for you, when i used to sell B+O in the 80`s, we were waiting with somewaht baited breath for the first VHS to arrive, 1 week before xmas from memory ( promised months before onviously !), anyway, we get 10 deliveried....open the box......and all down the main lead is printed ....HITACHE   HITACHE..ect ect......and i guess it all really started then and there, some of B+O videos were truely appaling products, the VHS63 springs to mind as awful. they have of course been using other peoples tubes for ever..but with added vaule, looks like the DVD2 adds nothing...pity....i shall buy a philips or sony i guess

andy

Interessting what you tell us andy! Well this means that B&O did make reboxed devices already for a long time. I really wonder how the quality of DVD2 will be. I can't really belive that B&O would release such a poor product that does not really "have" anything....

Ofcourse they did, their first V2000 VCR was a rebadged Philips, but then they did not ask 5 or ten times the price. Now they do, and that is the most respectless thing you can do to a customer.

 

http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/22/bang-and-olufsens-dvd-2-player-recorder-packs-a-hard-drive-too/

 

Maybe I am the only one, but I do not have a problem with the analogue tune. I recieve my signal through cable, and the signal will stay analouge for many years to come. The signal is provided by the largest Danish provider of television, so I might be speaking on many Danes behalf.

Yes it would be more future proff to have a combined tuner, but I do not care, I will have no use of anything but analouge.

In many European countries (FR, UK..), cable operator have specific Set top boxes and have now moved away from analog. Terrestrial analog will also be turned off.

In France, it will be forbidden from the 1rst of jan to sell TV without a digital Tuner. I think the BV8 and the DVD2 will be illegal in France!

Beo had a very neat solution where you could control the set top box and even do timed recording. The DVD2 does not implement that...

In the UK where I live (and it is right in the middle of London) I have no terrestrial reception.

 p.

 

I just asked my dealer for the official price of DVD2 in Switzerland, it is CHF 1865.-

So this is really too much for only having a Philips DVDR in a B&O Box