I have the the annual report and saw the tinr-over fall by 4% for the UK.

The reason B&O gives that the Beovision 8 did not apppear in time.

Sorry guys but this silly excuse makes me laugh. I hope they will think about a more serious reason in the headoffice. I think one of the main reasons is that FLAT TV's  has become larger and cheaper by the A brands and sometimes include much more then B&O does for a four times the price. The new Sony Bravia LCD telvision will all have a build in DVB-C and DVB-T and HDTV tuner.

 

KDL-70X3500: Dezember 2007. Price open yet 
KDL-52X3500: Oktober 2007. 4.999,- Euro
KDL-46X3500: September 2007. 3.799,- Euro
KDL-40X3500: August 2007. 2.999,- Euro 

So sleep well Stuer!!! Keep yourself sleeping well with telling yourself lies!!

I think your post is quite OTT. You make it seem as if Struer lies as a general rule - how else can one interpret "for once be honest?"

Apart from that, I also think your post is uninformed. Today's businesses have a very close eye on their turnover, with just-in-time manufacturing and with very precise prediction algorithms that calculate expected future sales. Put a major delay of the BV8 into that model, and you might find that it actually does explain the loss of revenue - because there weren't enough other items in the pipeline to pick up the slack as the organization was geared for the new tv. That's one possible downside of just-in-time manufacturing.

And yes, there are a lot of other makes out there that cost less, while delivering a television image. And that problem is not going away, as the price of LCDs keeps dropping. But then there are quite a few inexpensive cars out there, as well, which doesn't stop people dreaming of the luxury performance brands and their models. Which is why a direct comparison with Sony's prices doesn't make sense. You're comparing Opel to Audi. (And I think I'm being kind when I draw that analogy.)
 

There is a point when posts lose any value of discussion, and I feel this has passed that line.

Just my 2 cents.

What I try to say is I don 't expect the Beovison 8 to push up the turn-over..

And in Holland the second year the turn-over falls down, so if you make an excuse every year, you never solve the problem..

It is a financial report. You don't say things direct in there. I.e.BV9 was late. BV7 upgrade is overdue. You can't be honest. If you are honest per your definition teh CFO would be fired ....

Hello Bingo!

I´m very tired of reading about your rage against B&O. If you don´t like it, fine, but please save us your never ending complaints.

If you haven´t noticed it, this is more or less a fan site for B&O. Please join www.sonyworld.org or whatever and save us from your nonsens. Of course there is room for some negative opinions here, but you are beyond that.

I would never ever for an example buy a Rolex or any other that expensive watch. Even if I like them I will not spend that amount of money on it. But I highly respect the companys and their customs. I wouldn´t dream of spending time ranting on web site dedicated for them or reading their annual reports!

So please Bingo, just leave us.

By the way, if you so clearly have seen the light why don´t you start your own succesful brand and show Struer how to do it?

Here we go again...

Missed you soooo much Bingo!

Actually I disagree! I value Bingo's posts - I don't necessarily agree with them - but I value them. I like having a voice of dissent around and it encourages others to voice their opinions. He has never been unpleasant or difficult on the General Forum and I would encourage him to keep posting. We don't have to reply to any post so if what he posts annoys you, simply avoid it.

In this case, I think a high volume set launching late after the withdrawal of the MX range could well account for a drop in turn over but I am not an economist. 

I agree with you Peter, I usually enjoy reading Bingo's posts, even if they do take a rather extreme point of view.

I think in this case though, from my point of view, things have gone a bit too far...

Peter:

Actually I disagree! I value Bingo's posts - I don't necessarily agree with them - but I value them. I like having a voice of dissent around and it encourages others to voice their opinions. He has never been unpleasant or difficult on the General Forum and I would encourage him to keep posting. We don't have to reply to any post so if what he posts annoys you, simply avoid it.

In this case, I think a high volume set launching late after the withdrawal of the MX range could well account for a drop in turn over but I am not an economist. 

Tact personified

I'm with Peter here and I believe theres a thread of truth for the future in Bingo's post.

As the world heads for better and better quality flat panels at a frightening pace how much can B&O offer in the vision quality stakes? Their obvious unique selling point is still their "linkability" with the rest of their product range and higher quality sound but, in a purely digital signal processing world that will determine picture quality, and, given the price of DSP, how much ultimately can B&O offer over the masses. The BV7 with BS3 will undoubtedly be a huge step forward in picture quality but I feel the advantage is short term and eventually everyone will have splendid pictures at (very) low cost  - the added cost of engineering an Avant over a conventional CRT will simply not be there other than the cost of the unique mechanicals (case etc). Given that the general trend is for the sound system to be outside of the TV casing - other than unique styling what else can B&O offer in a TV??

Ooh now theres controversial!

Yeah it's all good.

You have to remember that B&O at sometime must have stopped their inventory of MX parts so that they could switch over to BV8 to replace it. As per ussual the product gets delayed (it's ok am a Programme Manager) so I can understand even the slightest thing would push out a launch date, not good especially if you've no longer got the bits to make an MX, then again why bother if the sales we're so low. They did heavily discount them to get rid of stock - which I thought was good.

I can see that accounting for a drop in sales, then again I think the BV6 moving to a BeoCentre6 might also heavily hit sales, as some will go why pay so much when they can get "the same" in a BV8.

I think they made a msitake on teh BV8 and should perhaps scalled down and just reused the BV6, however at the same time you can follow their logic to provide the BV8 (with dust trap shelf) to stand out from the normal flat screen crowd.

What they really need is another killer tv, basically a flat screen MX, that can loko classic and last years to help pull sales back up. I'd argue from my point the BV8 isn't that TV, and probably neither is the BC/BV6.

Puncher:

I'm with Peter here and I believe theres a thread of truth for the future in Bingo's post.

As the world heads for better and better quality flat panels at a frightening pace how much can B&O offer in the vision quality stakes? Their obvious unique selling point is still their "linkability" with the rest of their product range and higher quality sound but, in a purely digital signal processing world that will determine picture quality, and, given the price of DSP, how much ultimately can B&O offer over the masses. The BV7 with BS3 will undoubtedly be a huge step forward in picture quality but I feel the advantage is short term and eventually everyone will have splendid pictures at (very) low cost  - the added cost of engineering an Avant over a conventional CRT will simply not be there other than the cost of the unique mechanicals (case etc). Given that the general trend is for the sound system to be outside of the TV casing - other than unique styling what else can B&O offer in a TV??

Ooh now theres controversial!

I don't see much controversy here, Puncher - hope that doesn't disappoint you. Build quality and design expression is no longer a unique province of a few marques. Just look at what's happened to automobiles, for instance. And inexpensive manufacturing in China is now being wedded with excellent craftsmanship and quality in white goods across the line.

This is happening while competition is heating up, and while consumers are demonstrating a willingness to be brand disloyal without this leading to a loss of status for the consumer. 

Brand building is how well a brand takes care of its legacy, while exceeding customer expectations. If customers don't care about legace (buying kikinoko) and the brand underperforms (disappoints followers), then you're in a condition of erosion that could be irreversible. Just consider how Jaguar has lost cachet, for instance.

B&O faces some substantial challenges, and I think (as you) that Bingo was touching upon them, but I reacted as to a fairly flawed impression of how modern manufacture with worldwide distribution is carried out -- and I disliked the "for once be honest." I think that B&O is one of the few honest brands remaining, and hope that market pressures won't change that.
 

With honest I ment:

Last year the turn-over has fallen down in Holland and they had a reason for it. This year again the turn-over has fallen down again in Holland and now they have another reason. To me it sounds like avoiding to mention what is really the matter.

And yes although it is a strong word to use, to me that is the same as .....

That some people are inmediadly shouting that I must leave, suprises me a lot. A critical fan can be one of the greatest fans.. 

I agree! As far as I am concerned, Bingo is a valued member. I have heard that B&O are not averse to his opinions being aired either! Helps encourage constructive criticism.

Don't worry Bingo, i'm sure most of us don't actually want you to leave the forum, that would be wrong!!!! Just strong differences of opinion here I think, B&O fans are a passionate lot

I also think we should be a little careful when responding to posters whose first language isn't English as it can be easy to misinterpret what was intended.

Bingo:

With honest I ment:

Last year the turn-over has fallen down in Holland and they had a reason for it. This year again the turn-over has fallen down again in Holland and now they have another reason. To me it sounds like avoiding to mention what is really the matter.

And yes although it is a strong word to use, to me that is the same as .....

That some people are inmediadly shouting that I must leave, suprises me a lot. A critical fan can be one of the greatest fans.. 

Please, do not leave! What makes an internet site interesting is a diversity of opinions and viewpoints, and yours is a healthy corrective to those who are too brand religious -- just as theirs is a corrective to your point of view, as long as we respect one another.

I have my B&O likes and dislikes, as well, and am keenly following the company's future prospects. It's a tougher world for high-end CE all around!
 

I am not sure the post was the problem, it was the title! The implication in the title that B&O are never honest has upset a few people including me.  I do think B&O are far more honest than manufacturers such as BOSE that have a kind of 'smoke and mirrors' approach to getting people to part with their money.

B&O kit is unashamedly very expensive, nobody pretends that there aren't cheaper alternatives and you make your own decision as to what to buy. It will be interesting to see if people will continue to shell out big money for B&O TVs as the price gulf becomes huge. My feeling is there will always be a market for the best and most expensive of everything. Cars have already been mentioned. A Ford Mondeo will get you anywhere you want to go quickly, easily and efficiently for relatively little money, arguably just as quickly as quickly as a Mercedes and it may well be roomier and have more boot space that the Mercedes, be cheaper to run and easier to get repaired if it goes wrong. But I would still buy the Mercedes if I had the money.

 
And getting upset because a financial report puts a positive spin on some figures is just silly. It's just part of the game and ALL companies do it. 

 

But keep posting and I'll keep disagreeing with you! 

 

Simon 

Sure, the BeoVision 8 will fit the price range for a lot of B&O customers - but 3/4 of the BV8 customers are still waiting for the 32", so I do think that this effect will be amplified for the financial year.

But there is no denying that other effects play a major role as well: The 7-32 lives in its own world, but the 7-40 does appeal to the feinschmecker segment and they have learned the buzz words for expensive tv's right now: Full-HD and multiple HDMI inputs. Which of course is the reason why B&O is rushing the 7-40 mkIII for the European market. These customers are aware of the brochure from their local cable company telling them that a new box with HDTV and HDMI is just around the corner.

But the BeoVision 8 issue is important: The market is asking for video solutions today - the demand in the audio segment is experiencing stagnation and to a certain degree a drop in sales.

B&O's strategy with the BeoVision 7 & 8 series and the BeoCenter 6 series could have been improved. But I do belive that B&O is ahead of the game with the BeoVision 8 series: the new generation, those that do not buy BeoCom's but stick to mobile phones only, do not use the television in the same way as most people do today. They do not arrange their afternoon to fit a tv schedule, they do not arrange their evening to be centered around a tv and a big sofa. They have a more casual approach to the tv, they leave it on for more hours than most of us but actually watch it less. The demand for this type of casual product that you place where you have the most traffic in the house will be on the increase. A clever product for a new group of customers. But I would like to see the BeoCenter 6 series expanded to cater for the rest of us, that would like a more traditional centerpiece in our well-arranged living room.

Roger

In the end B&O is still making a profit.. healthy enough for them to continue to develop new products. Some markets might be down... others are up.. but the numbers are still in black... and that's what counts!

 

Karel

 

B&O at the end of the day is a business; it's purpose is to be a business, turn a profit, and if it doesn't do as well as it should, there should be a reason or someone should be either eplaining or covering for shareholders.

Thank you Bingo for starting this very interesting debate.

Andy T.

I ment the title exactly as I said.

They have more then once twisted a truth, yes!. When I mentioned when the Beovision 7 came out, that HDMI was needed from the start to make a futureproof TV, their answer was. B&O costumers do not need that. They don't care about that.  How far from the truth can you be, now so many people who bought an expensive Beovison 7 and a lot want to use it for 8 years orso, have big trouble with connection now. On the forum the amount of people who are waiting for HDMI grows. Yes, you may expect more for 10.000 euro in my opinin!

I have mailed Struer often in the past with questions. May times I recieved a nothing saying answer, avoiding cases. For the clearity; I am that critical to every manufacturer.

Roger:

But I would like to see the BeoCenter 6 series expanded to cater for the rest of us, that would like a more traditional centerpiece in our well-arranged living room.

Roger

Agree. BC6/BV6 is a much more appropriate BV3/LX/MX replacement than BV8. There needs to be several different versions to include the popular 32" screen size. Importantly there should an LS type version to cater for those who do not require beolnk etc. The BV8 is certainly not good enough to replace a classy piece of furniture like the LX.