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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 10-06-2011 6:27 AM by camper. 36 replies.
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  • 04-17-2007 11:08 AM

    • PAJ
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    • Posts 49
    • Founder

    Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    I live in France and have been using my Beocom6000 MK1 (B&O 1061446 which I bought in the UK in 1998) for 7 years without any problems. Three weeks ago a problem started to happen; during every call the signal fades after 2 minutes and after 30 seconds the signal returns but with a very poor quality. This occurs on both originating and incoming calls. Assuming that there was something wrong with the basestation (I have 3 handsets and the problem is on all handsets) I bought another base station on ebay France (B&O 1060646). The problem is exactly the same on the new basestation. I had an engineer from France Telecom spend 4 hours with me yesterday and he has replaced everything including making new connections at the local exchange. His equipment works fine but the 6000 is exactly the same. I have taken both of my basestations to a friends house in the same village and both work perfectly on his line. France Telecom say that they can not do anything else for me and that it must be a problem with my Beocom system. I have had to go and buy a nasty Alcatel phone which is now sitting next to my 6000 and works perfectly. I have isolated all other equipent in the house which could affect the DECT element of the system (the intercom aspect of the system is perfect), so I am certain, that the problem is in the line. My question is "are my two basestations compatible with the French PSTN".

    Please, please can anyone help?

    P.S. The new site looks great! 

    --Phil

    Filed under:
  • 04-17-2007 1:20 PM In reply to

    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    Given all the testing you have done and the units work at your friends house, it sounds like interference from another product within 300 metres of your base station.

    Do you have a WiFi network in your house or nearby ?

    Consider connecting a long phone cable from your phone point to the base station well away from its normal position to test if it is local interference or not

    Regards

    Keith..

    Regards Keith....

  • 04-17-2007 1:23 PM In reply to

    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    Would moving the PSTN into the attic/loft of the house solve this?

    On the old forum someone also had this problem and the manual also advised to avoid inteferance moving to the highest place possible is best?

  • 04-17-2007 1:26 PM In reply to

    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    Other things to consider:-

    Is the phone line also ADSL/DSL enabled meaning its used for broadband as well as normal voice calls ?

    If so, has this broadband line been recently upgraded to a higher speed capability ?

    Do you have other phone points in the house connected to the BeoCom 6000 base station line ?

    Regards Keith....

  • 04-18-2007 3:39 AM In reply to

    • PAJ
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    • Joined on 04-19-2007
    • Posts 49
    • Founder

    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    The line is ADSL enabled and has been in use for 14 months without a problem.  I am a retired technical director of an international software house and was responsible for the design and installation of large lan and wan meshes and I am certian that the problem is not in that area.  The intercom (DECT) aspect of the system is crystal clear regardless of the length of time used.  

    I have completely isolated the house-side installation and have deactivated any equipment which could possibly interfere with the DECT operation of the system.

    If I initiate (or answer) a call with the 6000 then the problem occurs after about 2 minutes.  If I then "hijack" the call with my nasty Alcatel phone then the interference remains on the Alcatel phone until the 6000 is turned off, the line then returns to normal for the duration of the call.  It's very strange. 

    The problem seems to be in the PSTN-basestation connection rather that the basestation-handset connection.  Does anybody know what the basestation differences are between the different european models and what the model numbers are for each country?  I know that my original basestation is a UK model because I bought it from my B&O distributor in Chester.  My other basestation however was bought on France eBay and I assumed that it would be "French" however the accompanying handset is German. The basestation is only marked as 1060646 - is this French?


    --Phil

  • 04-18-2007 12:23 PM In reply to

    • Jandyt
    • Top 10 Contributor
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    • Joined on 04-01-2007
    • Clitheroe, Lancashire, UK
    • Posts 13,004
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    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    Why do you have two base stations?Confused

    Andy T.

    Poor me, never win owt!

  • 04-18-2007 2:33 PM In reply to

    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    More than 6 handsets???
  • 04-19-2007 3:13 AM In reply to

    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    From a PSTN line view point I think the UK, French & German Basestations are the same. They do each have different type numbers however which you may wish to check.

    UK Type 0636

    Germany Type 0632

    France Type 0639

    Given, everything you have said three points stand out, first your basestation and handsets work at your friends house who is on the same phone exchange, second, the Alcatel DECT phone works fine. Third, the whole installation worked fine until a few weeks ago.

    I think we need to home in on the third point because something has changed a few weeks ago which may or may not be related to the PSTN line itself. I think I would ask myself what has changed in my house in the weeks leading up to the problem being noted.

    I find it difficult to understand that the problem only starts after a couple of minutes on a call, its as if the phone call itself is triggering something which then responds. I am assuming that when the problem occurs, if you hang up and call again it is OK for the first two minutes of the call ?

    I am not sure I am being any help here, more raising questions.

    Keith..

    Regards Keith....

  • 04-19-2007 3:49 AM In reply to

    • PAJ
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    • Joined on 04-19-2007
    • Posts 49
    • Founder

    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    I bought a second basestation and handset on ebay thinking that the first basestation was faulty.  My thinking was that the first basestation would still be useful as a table charger.

    --Phil

    --Phil

  • 04-19-2007 3:59 AM In reply to

    • PAJ
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    • Joined on 04-19-2007
    • Posts 49
    • Founder

    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    mobeyone:
    More than 6 handsets???

    No.... just 3. 

    --Phil

  • 04-19-2007 4:19 AM In reply to

    • PAJ
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    • Joined on 04-19-2007
    • Posts 49
    • Founder

    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    Keith Saunders:

    From a PSTN line view point I think the UK, French & German Basestations are the same. They do each have different type numbers however which you may wish to check.

    UK Type 0636

    Germany Type 0632

    France Type 0639

    Given, everything you have said three points stand out, first your basestation and handsets work at your friends house who is on the same phone exchange, second, the Alcatel DECT phone works fine. Third, the whole installation worked fine until a few weeks ago.

    I think we need to home in on the third point because something has changed a few weeks ago which may or may not be related to the PSTN line itself. I think I would ask myself what has changed in my house in the weeks leading up to the problem being noted.

    I find it difficult to understand that the problem only starts after a couple of minutes on a call, its as if the phone call itself is triggering something which then responds. I am assuming that when the problem occurs, if you hang up and call again it is OK for the first two minutes of the call ?

    I am not sure I am being any help here, more raising questions.

    Keith..

    Point 1.  The friends house (although only 300 mtrs away) is on a different exchange.

    Point 2. The Alcatel phone is not a DECT phone.

    Point 3. Yes, the installation was perfect until a few weeks ago (and nothing has changed in my home installation) and I have now installed a special connector which disconnects the home telephone network and connects directly to the service line as soon as a phone is plugged into it.  This completely removes any house-side wiring issues from the equation.

    I agree with your suggestion that it is as if the phone call itself is triggering something which then responds.  If a call is terminated and another call is initiated immediately then the whole of that call is at the poor quality level and it does not improve with time.  It appears that the basestation needs a recovery time of about 2 minutes before it returns to it's normal behavior of - 2 perfect minutes  followed by 30 seconds of very quiet communication followed by a constant normal volume, but poor quality.

    My basestation numbers do not correspond with the numbers that you mentioned.
    My old UK basestation is: B&O 1061446 CE 0188X 99W37
    My new ? basestation is:  B&O  1060646 CE 0188X 00W05

    Thanks Phil..

    --Phil

  • 04-19-2007 4:25 AM In reply to

    • SWISS_2
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • Neuchatel, Suisse
    • Posts 552
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    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    Good Morning Phil:

    I note that your handset is over 7 years old, yes ? 

    I had the same experience just once, and it turned out that my original 6000 model German handset was not charging properly. I took the handset into the store at Zurich  thinking it was incompatible with our Swiss phone system, or the age of the battery, and surprisingly it was identified as a problem arising from the charging contacts. Fortunately the unit was still under warranty, and a simple repair. No more fading calls with a slow return to signal strength.

    This phone continues to operate very well for us now in Brasil using the same charger.

    I hope this is of help to you.

  • 04-19-2007 5:42 AM In reply to

    • PAJ
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    • Joined on 04-19-2007
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    • Founder

    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    SWISS 2:

    Good Morning Phil:

    I note that your handset is over 7 years old, yes ? 

    I had the same experience just once, and it turned out that my original 6000 model German handset was not charging properly. I took the handset into the store at Zurich  thinking it was incompatible with our Swiss phone system, or the age of the battery, and surprisingly it was identified as a problem arising from the charging contacts. Fortunately the unit was still under warranty, and a simple repair. No more fading calls with a slow return to signal strength.

    This phone continues to operate very well for us now in Brasil using the same charger.

    I hope this is of help to you.

    Hi, I actually have three handsets.  One is nine years old, one is two years old and the other three years old.  They all appear to charge well and hold their charge without a problem.  Thanks for your suggestion; it's encouraging to hear that your system works in Brazil! 
    Thanks again.
    --Phil

    --Phil

  • 04-19-2007 12:47 PM In reply to

    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    Phil,

    The part number you quoted by the UK base certainly is for a UK base. The numbers I have quoted are the 4 digit type numbers, each country has a different type number as previously stated.

    I am focusing on something being triggered by the phone call and the fact that there appears to be some kind of timeout before you are back to a subsequent 2 minute call of quality. There are a couple of further questions I need to confirm with you related to the plugin power supplies as follows:-

    1) Are you using the UK power supply with a french adapter ?

    2) I am assuming given all the other things you have done, you DID use a different power supply when you tried a different base station ?

    3) Is your phone plugged into a UPS in case of power failure as I have mine ?

    I am beginning to ask myself if this it a power related issue which is charging/discharging a capacitor somewhere because the timings are so fixed in length, it either has to be something being triggered by the call or a change in voltage level created by the call.

    Do you, or a friend have a scope you could attach to the phone line to see for sure if the change is happening on the phone line ?

    Well Phil, this is certainly an interesting problem..

    Regards Keith....

  • 04-19-2007 1:42 PM In reply to

    • PAJ
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    • Joined on 04-19-2007
    • Posts 49
    • Founder

    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    Keith Saunders:

    Phil,

    The part number you quoted by the UK base certainly is for a UK base. The numbers I have quoted are the 4 digit type numbers, each country has a different type number as previously stated.

    I am focusing on something being triggered by the phone call and the fact that there appears to be some kind of timeout before you are back to a subsequent 2 minute call of quality. There are a couple of further questions I need to confirm with you related to the plugin power supplies as follows:-

    1) Are you using the UK power supply with a french adapter ?

    2) I am assuming given all the other things you have done, you DID use a different power supply when you tried a different base station ?

    3) Is your phone plugged into a UPS in case of power failure as I have mine ?

    I am beginning to ask myself if this it a power related issue which is charging/discharging a capacitor somewhere because the timings are so fixed in length, it either has to be something being triggered by the call or a change in voltage level created by the call.

    Do you, or a friend have a scope you could attach to the phone line to see for sure if the change is happening on the phone line ?

    Well Phil, this is certainly an interesting problem..

    Keith,
    Thanks for your persistence!

    1: I have always made sure that the original adapters are used with each of my two basestations and single table charger.  

    2: Yes I have used the original power supplies with each of the two basestations- (in other words the adapter that came in the original box with each of the basestations).  I have not tried either of the basestations with the other's power supply.  I noticed a couple of years ago when I bought another 6000 + tablecharger that the power supplies were different (MKI/MKII) so I have always been careful not to mix them up.

    3: I do not have a UPS, but I do have lightening arresters installed for both mains power and telephone line.  These devices have their own dedicated earth rod and are installed in the main services board.  I have additional spike/surge protection an all sensitive equipment.

    4: I have my own multimeter  so I could check the line myself.  Do you have any idea what a "perfect " line should read?
    Thanks again
    --Phil
     

    --Phil

  • 04-19-2007 2:37 PM In reply to

    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    Phil

    The MK I and MK II have different supplies, if like me you have both MK I & MK II you will noted that it is not possible to put a MK II phone into a MK I holder because the locating lugs are different.

    When I talked about a scope I mean an Oscilloscope as below, a multimeter is very unlikely (but not impossible) to show the kind of difference we are looking for. With an Oscilloscope, if there is changes on the line you will see it.

    Scope

    The thing which is of most interest in your response is the comment about the earth rod etc because PSTN often uses the earth line as a return particularly if it is an old line. Therefore even weather conditions can affect the line if this is the case.

    Have you tried removing the phone line surge protection for test purposes ?

    Keith..

    Regards Keith....

  • 04-19-2007 3:14 PM In reply to

    • PAJ
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 04-19-2007
    • Posts 49
    • Founder

    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    Keith Saunders:

    Phil

    The MK I and MK II have different supplies, if like me you have both MK I & MK II you will noted that it is not possible to put a MK II phone into a MK I holder because the locating lugs are different.

    When I talked about a scope I mean an Oscilloscope as below, a multimeter is very unlikely (but not impossible) to show the kind of difference we are looking for. With an Oscilloscope, if there is changes on the line you will see it.

    Scope

    The thing which is of most interest in your response is the comment about the earth rod etc because PSTN often uses the earth line as a return particularly if it is an old line. Therefore even weather conditions can affect the line if this is the case.

    Have you tried removing the phone line surge protection for test purposes ?

    Keith..

    Keith,

    I have only MK I handsets.

    I have a reasonable digital multimeter  ( I bought it when I retired in 1999 for about £200) which can monitor a source and store both high and low values.  Do you think that it's worth a try.  What are we looking for, voltage drop, impedance change.....?

    I have a "special"  first phone socket in my system.  In normal operation this socket remains empty; in this state the "house installation" is connected.  As soon as you plug a phone into this socket it isolates the house side of the installation (including the lightening protection device).

    Thanks
    --Phil

    --Phil

  • 04-19-2007 3:46 PM In reply to

    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    This first phone socket also contains a capacitor which allows the phone to ring

    I suggest you try both Beocom 6000 base stations in this first socket and see what the results are ?  You may have already done this, but you have not mentioned it.

    Keith..

    Regards Keith....

  • 05-06-2007 12:36 PM In reply to

    • PAJ
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    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    Hi Keith, I have done some more investigations and this is what I have found.

    I isolated the installation and measured the voltage across  the two connections.

    I then initiated a call and watched what happens.  I did the test with both of my basestations, an old beocom 1401 (a UK version which I have never used in France as it does not ring) and my nasty cheap French Alcatel handset.

    This is what happens:
    Beocom 6000

    Line not in use gives -54.5V DC
    This drops (or rises, whichever way you want to look at it) to -11.5V DC on dial tone.
    During the call this steadily drops (over ~120 seconds to -6.5V DC (the signal fades at ~8V DC).

    Beocom 1401

    Line not in use gives -54.5V DC
    This drops (or rises, whichever way you want to look at it) to -11.5V DC on dial tone.
    During the call this steadily drops (over ~120 seconds to -6.5V DC (the signal fades at ~ -8V DC).

    Alcatel

    Line not in use gives -54.5V DC
    This drops (or rises, whichever way you want to look at it) to -31.5V DC on dial tone.
    During the call this value remains constant.

    Does this give you any ideas?

    Thanks
    --Phil

    --Phil

  • 05-08-2007 3:49 AM In reply to

    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    Hello Phil,

    Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, but I have been away in Italy and just returned.

    First, the reason the UK version of the 1401 does not ring is because in the UK we bring the phone pair into a master socket which becomes pin 2 & 5 on the UK socket and inside the master socket is a capacitor from pin 2 to 3, it is pin 3 that provides the ring indicator signal, so in France when you plug your 1401 in it does not have a rind signal.

    Your other information is very interesting indeed and does support the view that there is something being charged which gives the timing interval. If you had asked me what the voltage should have been during a call I would have said about 30 volts.

    I suggest the next action is to take your Beocom 6000 to your friends house again and measure the line there and I think you will see it around the 30 volt level during a call depending on the length of wire from the exchange, but certainly much more than 10 volts.

    Whilst France Telecom have tested the line and say everything is in order, it is starting to look like a faulty driver in the exchange or an extra high capacitance on the line itself which would not effect many phones which have traditional receiver circuits.

    I think once you have confirmed the voltage at your friends house is as we expect, you maybe calling France Telecom back again.

    Keith..

    Regards Keith....

  • 05-08-2007 4:17 AM In reply to

    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    PhilJefferson:
    Keith Saunders:

    From a PSTN line view point I think the UK, French & German Basestations are the same. They do each have different type numbers however which you may wish to check.

    UK Type 0636

    Germany Type 0632

    France Type 0639

    Given, everything you have said three points stand out, first your basestation and handsets work at your friends house who is on the same phone exchange, second, the Alcatel DECT phone works fine. Third, the whole installation worked fine until a few weeks ago.

    I think we need to home in on the third point because something has changed a few weeks ago which may or may not be related to the PSTN line itself. I think I would ask myself what has changed in my house in the weeks leading up to the problem being noted.

    I find it difficult to understand that the problem only starts after a couple of minutes on a call, its as if the phone call itself is triggering something which then responds. I am assuming that when the problem occurs, if you hang up and call again it is OK for the first two minutes of the call ?

    I am not sure I am being any help here, more raising questions.

    Keith..

    Point 1.  The friends house (although only 300 mtrs away) is on a different exchange.

    Point 2. The Alcatel phone is not a DECT phone.

    Point 3. Yes, the installation was perfect until a few weeks ago (and nothing has changed in my home installation) and I have now installed a special connector which disconnects the home telephone network and connects directly to the service line as soon as a phone is plugged into it.  This completely removes any house-side wiring issues from the equation.

    I agree with your suggestion that it is as if the phone call itself is triggering something which then responds.  If a call is terminated and another call is initiated immediately then the whole of that call is at the poor quality level and it does not improve with time.  It appears that the basestation needs a recovery time of about 2 minutes before it returns to it's normal behavior of - 2 perfect minutes  followed by 30 seconds of very quiet communication followed by a constant normal volume, but poor quality.

    My basestation numbers do not correspond with the numbers that you mentioned.
    My old UK basestation is: B&O 1061446 CE 0188X 99W37
    My new ? basestation is:  B&O  1060646 CE 0188X 00W05

    Thanks Phil..

    I think you may have answered your question in point 1.  You have proved your system at another location and have now tried 2 PSTN bases, your system was working fine until recently so I would suspect that something at the exchange has changed and the PSTN has an issue with it.  Have the SW updated on both your PSTN and all handsets, it could be that simple.

  • 05-08-2007 7:49 AM In reply to

    • PAJ
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    • Joined on 04-19-2007
    • Posts 49
    • Founder

    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    Hi, thanks for the suggestion but how do you update the software?  
    --Phil

    --Phil

  • 05-08-2007 9:28 AM In reply to

    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    It is something your dealer will have to do, it will take about 10 mins.
  • 05-08-2007 10:08 AM In reply to

    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    I agree that this is likely to be a driver type issue at the PSTN, so there is not a lot of point in updating the software in the phones when it has been proved that they work correctly at Phil's friends home.

    Keith..

     

    Regards Keith....

  • 05-08-2007 10:51 AM In reply to

    Re: Beocom 6000 - European compatibility issues?

    Keith Saunders:

    I agree that this is likely to be a driver type issue at the PSTN, so there is not a lot of point in updating the software in the phones when it has been proved that they work correctly at Phil's friends home.

    Keith..

     

    If you update the SW in the base the phones have to be done as well, SW levels have to be the same in the entire system, otherwise more issues will occur.

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