Let me start by making it clear that my intention was never to seek compensation from Lee.

This forum is a community. And as such we need to act as one. If someone is acting in a way that threatens the community they need to be held to account.

I wrestled with the decision on whether to put my experience in the public domain not least because I knew it would be bad PR for what is an excellent forum. But don’t people deserve to know that someone’s letting the side down?

As Lee said. I gave him every chance. Here’s a nice selection of emails from the history of this. Each of these replies was in response to me chasing him with an email, sometimes several emails.

August 8^th 2011

Back now, and received the Beotime (with thanks) and it is perfect - I am very happy with it :)

Do you want me to send the Beogram to your ***** address?

September 5^th 2011

 

Cheers for that - Sorry for being slack! Reason being I have purchased a new belt kit for it from Martin Dillen on the forums and I am waiting for it to arrive from Denmark!

I'll give you a shout with the tracking number when it is sent.... :)

 

October 24^th 2011

 

I have been in and out of the country with work since September, and am also flying to Sweden today and returning home (via Latvia) next Monday :(

I promise I will sort this out as soon as I get back - I know you have been waiting for ages and I haven't forgot about it!

 

November 21^st 2011 – by this time I’ve said I’ll take cash as I’m not waiting any longer

 

No problem, I will do this for you on Wednesday when I get paid and will send you a print screen of the transfer.

Apologies for taken ages to sort out.

 

December 12th , 2011

 

I am no longer working for my old company (which was the email address we contacted eachother by) so can you please email me your bank details to this address so I can pay you?

I emailed again on December 15th and 21st and got no reply.

I wonder how Leslie would have acted differently after months of frustration?

 

 

I greatly appreciate Lee’s offer, though I don’t think I’ll accept. Nobody forced me to deal with Llewelyn so it’s my own fault. Why should Lee lose out because I made the same mistake as he did? 

 

Lee, to his absolute credit, has held his hands up and said he was aware of a problem before, but gave Llewelyn the benefit of the doubt. It transpires the benefit of the doubt was incorrectly given and other members of his community have suffered when they might not have if Llewelyn had been outed sooner.

 

It’s the mark of the man that Lee’s prepared to make members of his community happy even if it comes out of his own pocket. I don’t see Leslie's problem with his offer being made in public. He’s turned the bad PR of my original post into some spectacularly good PR. I’ve never been to a forum (and dealt with very few companies) that would make an offer like that.

 

Ultimately I’m glad I did name and shame this particular member. But perhaps Leslie would prefer me to have kept quiet so that he could have the opportunity to get ripped off by Llewelyn in the future too.

 

 

Just telling you what I think about calling names and my experiences with this person like Mark did. Personally I would pay him a visit if he ripps me off

Other thing, if he's that bad why not kicking him off this forum so he never can harm people anymore. Moderator team is able to do that or not?

Btw, not so long ago he was participating in a thread with Lee. If I was lee having a guy with such an attitude (which I personally don't feel) I would never be "talking" to him

It is very difficult for moderators to deal with behaviour like this. I think most of us expect all members here to be honest and generous in their dealings with each other. Unfortunately there a few who do not and take massive advantage - I know that I have certainly been done a few times. We do try to deal with such matters behind the scenes but sometimes this simply does not work. A huge shame but human nature I suppose.Luckily we also have generous individuals such as Lee who is an example to us all.

Just because we meet others here as part of a   community and a forum does not exempt thre members from keeping within the law. Without taking sides in this, if it happened to me, i would pursue it legally.

Every internet sale is subject to the same laws as normal 'shop' sales within that country. Emails are contractually binding if we make or accept offers.

Obviously it depends on the size of the loss involved and obvioulsy  its a lot harder if you are in different jurisdictions but as far as i know, the laws still applies to international sales.

lee -  you are an upright guy.....and this in no way deminishes my experience of Beoworld or the vast majority of its good and upright members. 99.95 of members here are fantastic..last week one guy in Uk offered to

 

you can get screwed in the vatican (and as i just typed that i realised its ambiguity lol).

anyway, im sad for you guys who are at loss

 

Peter:

Luckily we also have generous individuals such as Lee who is an example to us all.

He sure is and I admire Lee but still I have my opinions and still can't understand why someone is doing this. I had contact with Llewelyn  two weeks ago and thanked him for the extra nice things he gave me because of an exchange we did and I still owe him money for the Ebay stuff he bought for me.

Not only do I owe him money but als the posters that was part of the exchange!

Just noticed that his name dissapeared above his avatar, only dots I see now?

Boy, this is a tough subject! Very touchy and very grey!

I probably would not have replied at all, except that I can speak from my own personal experience, FWIW.

I have been an eBayer for 15+ years and while I have had my share of close calls, including one rather ugly incident -I have never been left "high and dry."

I have had several transactions here (no idea how many) and I have sent and received gear from all around the world -sometimes for money, often for free or as I like to say: pro bono BeoWorld! I must admit, unfortunately, that I had two transactions that went belly-up and I was basically, as the thread word states: screwed. I am out about ~$300.00USD not including shipping, etc... I tried and tried outside of BW to resolve it, but nothing.

Money is money, they are still printing it. Gear is gear, there is still plenty of it out there! What can't be reclaimed, particularly in one of my deals, was the countless hours of advice, planning, and testing that went into it. But even that "is that." The most important thing lost is the trust -a sense of violation, a rather simple thing!

To my point... Yes, BW has the private sales/wanted section. One would think (hope) that by being a minimum silver member, one would have a vested interest in advancing the reputation of the site. However, this is not eBay and there really is no policing -and one would hope there wouldn't need to be any! But, there is no feedback. No way of saying: YEAH/NAY. It is what it is, I suppose... another tool at our fingertips, to be used at will -but you are on your own. I am not sure what the best answer is. Another forum I frequent, has a secondary numeric count (akin to a post count) that manifests only when in their sales/wanted section. Clicking the number -sends you to the user's feedback. This may be overkill, but as we are about to go into BETA testing on the new site this weekend -perhaps it is something to look into?

I certainly appreciate the sales/wanted here -it has reaped many more benefits than just the outright sale on the good occassions! I would open my home to any of my "friends" and I am confident, as I would travel from Greece, to China, to Australia, or even Kentucky -that an open door and a wet whisky would be awaiting my arrival.

It is very gracious of Lee stepping in here when I don't think he really has to -but I suppose that is what we all expected from the original deal's second party in the first place! Good man! It furthers my belief that this is a great site with a thoughtful, caring, and forthright membership. I sincerely hope the OP and the others can settle all of their disputes... and moving forward -we could come up, collectively, with a way of dealing with this type of an ugly issue that is not just befitting, but can make this an even greater site.

Lee

you open the flood gates, do you want my list?

Only joking, but the man needs his b*lls chopping!!

I'm not normally vindictive, thought he had changed his ways with a little age, but apparently not!
Thought we were/are a band of gentlemen/women trying to further the cause?

Tony(beautiful sunset over Dz Bay - cold though)

Well said, Jeff.

The Beosystem 2400 is still waiting for you in the guest bedroom...

And to Lee:  I salute you for your gestures, sir.

I want to add a piece here, I have dealt with Llewelyn he is a good guy. I can only imagine that certain things have got on top of him?  I have dealt with others on here and there is a certain "spirit of beoworld"  that we adhere to!  Don't let this dampen your spirits guys, I am a firm believer in you reap what you sow

 

Lee has made a fantastic gesture, but he should feel accountable for this issue.

 

On the forum I have met people that i genuinely care about and whom I would call friends, I dont like to hear of people being mistreated 

 

Cheers Nick 

My last post to this thread.

Mika: What is your favorite Whisky Brand

stotty1111:

Only joking, but the man needs his b*lls chopping!!

You mean balls? That's not a forbidden word is it?

My last post to this thread....

Cheers

Nigel

As a direct recipient of Lee’s “gesture” I thank him from the bottom of my heart. Also, I never thought for a second that Lee should be accountable for the actions of another. However I am upset that this matter has been twisted into a shoot the messenger affair by a few.

When I read kb1981’s brave whistle blowing post I had no choice but to back him up by sharing my experience.  After all there were already posts suggesting kb1981 must have made some kind of mistake.  His experience is a carbon copy of mine and if I could assist in letting people know that yes, this guy Llewelyn really can behave in an infuriating, deceptive manner - like a bad rash that itches and itches but refuses to go away. 

Stotty1111’s amazing Holmesian tale of how he finally tracked Llewelyn down after he had been treated in a similar shabby fashion should have been enough to hammer the point home and serve as a Red Flag for anybody contemplating dealing with him.

I have been hurt by the imputations of some of the posts over the last few days which at times have left me feeling ashamed and guilty of something when I have done no wrong whatsoever.

Lees gesture is one that I accept in the grace with which it was given.  I am quite thrilled that at last my turntable can be put back onto permanent display, that the records will be spinning &

I can get back to relishing that intangible something that is Bang & Olufsen.

Thank you BeoWorld and thank you Lee.

** Formatting corrected by Dillen **

Sorry about the formating(???).  I won't copy and paste from Word again!! 

 

** Formatting corrected by Dillen **

h1npw:

 

Hi Nick

"Lee has made a fantastic gesture, but he should feel accountable for this issue."

Do you mean should or shouldn't??

 

Cheers

Nigel

 

cheers Nigel, he shouldn't!!

 

Sorry if i caused any upset Lee

 

Llewelyn strikes again. This bloke cannot be trusted. I'm in the group that has been ripped off by him. DO NOT TRUST THIS MAN. Unfortunately he will now probably change his username and carry on ripping people off.