I seem to recall learning that prepositions are words which describe a
locational/spatial relationship between objects, e.g., in front of a chair, on a
chair, in the car, behind the door, etc. 

Someone asked me about "on the phone", as in "She is talking on the phone".  I
thought "on the phone" would be more of the predicate, part of a verb clause,
than part of a preposition in that the person is not literally sitting or
lying "on [top of] the phone".  Am I correct?  What part of grammar is "on the
phone"?  "She" is a pronoun and "phone" is a noun. "She" is the subject of the sentence,
"is talking" is the verb, so what is "on the phone"?

What an excellent thread!

I suspect it can be put down to a nuance of the English language, but we have some brilliant grammatical people on here!

What about "hey, Jonathan Ross is on the Radio.."

I'd love to see him perched on top of my BeoSystem 10 in the showroom!!

If it's a Beocom 2, fairly painful, I would have thought.....

Sorry, couldn't resist it.......

Hope you get a sensible answer soon, although it would appear we all need to go back to school...

Cheers

Nigel

 

Should that be brilliantly? Or even grammatically?

h1npw:

Should that be brilliantly? Or even grammatically?

(blows h1npw a raspberry)

Wings:

 
I seem to recall learning that prepositions are words which describe a
locational/spatial relationship between objects, e.g., in front of a chair, on a
chair, in the car, behind the door, etc. 

Someone asked me about "on the phone", as in "She is talking on the phone".  I
thought "on the phone" would be more of the predicate, part of a verb clause,
than part of a preposition in that the person is not literally sitting or
lying "on [top of] the phone".  Am I correct?  What part of grammar is "on the
phone"?  "She" is a pronoun and "phone" is a noun. "She" is the subject of the sentence,
"is talking" is the verb, so what is "on the phone"?

I would take a punt at "on" being a "Pre-Positional Modifier" of the noun "phone"

I think the "on", rather disappointingly, is just a preposition. "on the phone" is a prepositional phrase. If it was "on the B&O phone" then the "B&O" would be a modifier. Suspect it's more of a case of the definition of the word "on" allowing it to be used in this context

I have been browsing the BeoWorld forums, just having fun reading the posts for awhile now, but this post is the one that compelled me to join! Can you believe it?

I am pretty sure that prepositions do more than define locational/spatial relationships. For example, the words "for" and "about" are prepositions. "I have been looking for my EarSet 2 all day."  "My husband is thinking about buying a BeoSound 4."  (In the previous sentence, "buying a BeoSound 4" is an infinitive phrase acting as a noun/object of the preposition.)

I would say that "on the phone" is most definitely a prepositional phrase. 
On= preposition
The=article for "phone"
Phone=noun/object of the preposition.

 http://www.uottawa.ca/academic/arts/writcent/hypergrammar/preposit.html

Don't we just love the English language!  :)

Hi 

From my French point of view, this is the only answer that have sense...

Laurent.

joynsyde:

I have been browsing the BeoWorld forums, just having fun reading the posts for awhile now, but this post is the one that compelled me to join! Can you believe it?

I am pretty sure that prepositions do more than define locational/spatial relationships. For example, the words "for" and "about" are prepositions. "I have been looking for my EarSet 2 all day."  "My husband is thinking about buying a BeoSound 4."  (In the previous sentence, "buying a BeoSound 4" is an infinitive phrase acting as a noun/object of the preposition.)

I would say that "on the phone" is most definitely a prepositional phrase. 
On= preposition
The=article for "phone"
Phone=noun/object of the preposition.

 http://www.uottawa.ca/academic/arts/writcent/hypergrammar/preposit.html

Don't we just love the English language!  :)

The mind boggles - hopefully you do know that we aren't normally this geeky

Sorry I am late joining this topic. I was in the toilet!

Andy T.

9 LEE:

What an excellent thread!

What about "hey, Jonathan Ross is on the Radio.."

I'd love to see him perched on top of my BeoSystem 10 in the showroom!!

Thanks, Lee.  Still living up to my reputation for asking stupid [wierd, unusual] questions. 

Don't know "your" Jonathan Ross.  "My" Jonathan Ross is a lawyer and I doubt he sits on anything other than on the bench in the courtroom and even then, he is still sitting on his posterior.

BTW:  in [on?] the old Forum, I could click on "quote" and be able to  quote several posts in one thread and make only one repy to them all.  However, here with the new Forum, clicking on "quote" automatically opens the "reply to existing message" window.  I suppose I don't really mind; it simply increases my number of posts although I still lag quite a bit behind Peter and Alex.     [:'(]

Puncher:

The mind boggles - hopefully you do know that we aren't normally this geeky

Exactly why I posted on this site -- to have the assistance of all my fellow geeks! 

jandyt:

I was in the toilet!

Andy T.

Reminds me of two items:

1.  an old TV commercial for a toilet bowl cleaner, where there was a captain and a sailor in a row boat in a toilet bowl examining the cleaniness of the bowl and the underside of the rim. 

2.  when we went to the US Consul General's residence, there was a sign on the gate:  "Please wait.  Guard on toilet."    How is that for honesty and directness?

 

joynsyde:

I have been browsing the BeoWorld forums, just having fun reading the posts for awhile now, but this post is the one that compelled me to join! Can you believe it?

I am pretty sure that prepositions do more than define locational/spatial relationships. For example, the words "for" and "about" are prepositions. "I have been looking for my EarSet 2 all day."  "My husband is thinking about buying a BeoSound 4."  (In the previous sentence, "buying a BeoSound 4" is an infinitive phrase acting as a noun/object of the preposition.)

I would say that "on the phone" is most definitely a prepositional phrase. 
On= preposition
The=article for "phone"
Phone=noun/object of the preposition.

 http://www.uottawa.ca/academic/arts/writcent/hypergrammar/preposit.html

Don't we just love the English language!  :)

Welcome to Beoworld. 

Thank you for the link.  It seems to be rather comprehensive so it will take me some time to go through all the items.   So far, the site has avoided the "on the phone" question. 

As for whether we love the English language, have you seen the last page of Puncher's thread "Wednesdays" which was temporarily hijacked to discuss English spelling and pronounciation?

Wings:

Welcome to Beoworld. 

Thank you for the link.  It seems to be rather comprehensive so it will take me some time to go through all the items.   So far, the site has avoided the "on the phone" question. 

As for whether we love the English language, have you seen the last page of Puncher's thread "Wednesdays" which was temporarily hijacked to discuss English spelling and pronounciation?

My mother and grandmother were English schoolteachers.  I was only begging for more torture when I married a French linguist! 

The site says: 

A preposition usually indicates the temporal, spatial or logical relationship of its object to the rest of the sentence...

In your sentence, "on" would connect "phone" logically, not spatially, to the rest of the sentence. 

I started reading the thread you mentioned, but got distracted...  But it is Wednesday today, so maybe I should read the whole thing now.  

Wings:

jandyt:

I was in the toilet!

Andy T.

Reminds me of two items:

1.  an old TV commercial for a toilet bowl cleaner, where there was a captain and a sailor in a row boat in a toilet bowl examining the cleaniness of the bowl and the underside of the rim. 

2.  when we went to the US Consul General's residence, there was a sign on the gate:  "Please wait.  Guard on toilet."    How is that for honesty and directness?

 

Sorry, I'm going off on a tangent here but your sign reminded me of one I saw in a fruit packing factory in Valencia, Spain.
It was on a payphone, there were instructions in Spanish and some kind Spaniard had translated it for us English lorry drivers. It said:-

" If you still can't speak, place two fingers in your bottom and withdraw the coin then try again"

Andy T.

 

joynsyde:

My mother and grandmother were English schoolteachers.  I was only begging for more torture when I married a French linguist! 

The site says: 

A preposition usually indicates the temporal, spatial or logical relationship of its object to the rest of the sentence...

In your sentence, "on" would connect "phone" logically, not spatially, to the rest of the sentence. 

I started reading the thread you mentioned, but got distracted...  But it is Wednesday today, so maybe I should read the whole thing now.  

Thanks again.  I must have missed the part about " ... logical relationship ..." in junior high school or have since forgotten about it in my old age.  Please pardon my facetiousness.

Now, can anyone translated "prepositional phrase" into Cantonese, Putonghua or Mandarin for me?  I can envision the fun I will have trying to explain all this to non-native English speakers.