Leslie:

joeyboygolf:

Your activities amount to gross desecration of iconic products. If it was up to me, B&O would be sueing you.

You are gradually trashing some of the most superb designs of our age.

Now , it would appear, you are about to start on the Ouverture, with plastic doors and strange colours, no less!!

 

That took long, was expecting these stupid remarks from you a bit earlier!

No doubt your Greek chum will be along soon to add to your comments!

It's a good job I've got broad shoulders.

joeyboygolf:

No doubt your Greek chum will be along soon to add to your comments!

It's a good job I've got broad shoulders.

Sometimes it's wise not to respond to these silly remarks specially from this person.

Btw, Graham, have been checking today for the glass windows, cost me 15 euro each, cheap ha

Keep smiling, my shoulders are broad as well......

I have two glass doors and the brackets they have come off and been glued by a blind man but if your in the uk you can have the pair for for £40.00 plus P&P.

Sorry, not in the UK, but your price is quite reasonable, thanks!

joeyboygolf:

Leslie:

joeyboygolf:

Your activities amount to gross desecration of iconic products. If it was up to me, B&O would be sueing you.

You are gradually trashing some of the most superb designs of our age.

Now , it would appear, you are about to start on the Ouverture, with plastic doors and strange colours, no less!!

 

That took long, was expecting these stupid remarks from you a bit earlier!

 

No doubt your Greek chum will be along soon to add to your comments!

It's a good job I've got broad shoulders.

Graham

I dont agree with Leslie when it comes to change the design of a iconic product or any B&O product, I always try to keep my items as close as posible to the originals, but he owns this equipment and it is his decision to do with it what he wants.

Leslie is doing a lot to keep our vintage items original and now he is trying to save us a couple of bucks on spareparts that B&O sells for a very high price, the price may be OK or not, considering the cost of developing, maintaining and shipping. Leslie is doing this for fun and as a hobby, his winns are absolutely 0000.00, if he is lucky he may sell 5-10 pairs of glass doors, and thinking about the hours he put into it, he will come out with a loss. Except for the BS 3200, the iconic items with this type of glass doors is out of production, and the dealers normaly dont stock spares for them.

Last time I asked a B&O official dealer near me for a sparepart, he told me that they sell equipment and not spareparts, so now I do everything to get my spares elswhere. Leslie is one source I will use if applyable.

Last but not least, to insult a forum member like Spiros does not belong here.

Now unload your remarks to my broad, and with age, a little hanging shoulders

Written in my best English, I'm not from the Island.

Agreed.  The doors cost around $170/pair here in the states; a less expensive alternative would be welcome.  In all fairness, Leslie never mentioned plastic, nor colored doors; simply the most original replicas that can be produced by a very talented individual.  I, for one, applaud him, not only for making a less expensive alternative available to us, but also for sending a signal to B&O that they are not a monopoly, and can not get away with charging outrageous prices for spare parts.  Leslie, I have two clips that attach to the doors in my parts bin; if you want them they're yours.      

Thank you guys, at least you and some others understand what my drives are by making these alternative "spare parts".

Please note that it's absolutely not my intention to sell them! I sold Paul (member) 3x BM4500 panels at cost price, in fact with loss, if I'm gonnna count the hours/days that I've spend on these.

Pitty though that I did not get any response from "founders" of this forum because I think that this guy who has a reputation does not know how to behave as it comes to insults. He may have critics of what I'm doing but "Greek chum"? Come on Graham, at least have the decensy to mention the person by name! Indeed Spiros is a dear friend of mine and well respected member (never seen him in real). As others backing up founders so does Spiros with me.

My B&O passion has started since a few years and also became a paid member and supporting Beoworld whenever I have sold one of my items on Beoworld. My knowledge was zero at that time and learned a lot of other worldwide Beofriends. Thanks to them I am where I am now, a skilled person with lots of passion!

I think when it continues like this I better stop placing threads on Beoworld and will stop my membership!

"Joeyboygolf" or Graham, any guts to apologize to Spiros (not to me please? Not so hard to do you know, I've made this mistake once myself here on this forum!

mediabobny:

Agreed.  The doors cost around $170/pair here in the states; a less expensive alternative would be welcome.  In all fairness, Leslie never mentioned plastic, nor colored doors; simply the most original replicas that can be produced by a very talented individual.  I, for one, applaud him, not only for making a less expensive alternative available to us, but also for sending a signal to B&O that they are not a monopoly, and can not get away with charging outrageous prices for spare parts.  Leslie, I have two clips that attach to the doors in my parts bin; if you want them they're yours.      

Thanks Mediabobny for your kind words. I will accept your offer and certainly could use them as a first trial to see how it looks like. I already ordered the glass panels for 15 euro each and my only concern is how to glue them with the shiny black surface underneath. Will post pictures when they are finished. Thanks again and will post you my adress!

Leslie:

"Joeyboygolf" or Graham, any guts to apologize to Spiros (not to me please? Not so hard to do you know, I've made this mistake once myself here on this forum!

What would I apologise for?

Please see here:-

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chum

I do believe that this is a forum, a place where open discussion of views takes place.

If my views are different to yours, I am at liberty to voice them, just as you are at liberty to voice yours.

It would be a boring world, not to mention a boring website, if we all agreed with each other.

As I see it, Leslie has great skill and great succes in restoring and reproducing things.
He has lots of fans, including me. I have often admired his work even if, like Tournedos, I haven't written
a load of praising posts.
Leslie is free to do with his own things what he likes just as eventual buyers are free to choose
what and from where they want to buy.
The glass panels in question here are easily removed and replaced in a matter of seconds and
changing from broken original to nice reproduction is fully reversible so even for me (an "original"),
seeing replacement glass panels available at a reasonable price would be welcome.
If you don't like them, you can buy elsewhere.

And gentlemen, air your thoughts and agree to disagree.
That's what a forum is all about.
It can be done, I've been there myself.

Martin
Beoworld moderator and founder member.

joeyboygolf:

What would I apologise for?

For the way you have used the words "Greek chum" in a sarcastic way (you knew his name) and don't tell me what chum means, I already looked that up, don't worry.

@Martin, you're right (never knew that you're a moderator and founder), let's breathe some air and if I may I will continue posting my thread as soon as I have the panels. Thank you!

Personally, I'm all for high quality non-B&O parts of they can be made to the same standards as B&O would produce themselves.  Nobody has ever tutted, huffed or puffed about STB Brackets.  I use Sounds Heavenly cables, have my speaker cloths re-covered by a third party as opposed to paying the ludicrous prices B&O want for new ones - and even have boxes and polystyrene inserts produced for me in some cases.  Nobody has ever complained - but if asked i'll happily tell them.

Leslie, if you can produce glass Ouverture doors to the same size, shape and standard as B&O - i'll place an order for 20 pairs with you straight away.  We're talking glass doors here, not CD lasers or circuit boards.  B&O's parts prices are in many cases ridiculously high compared with the cost of manufacture.  That said, some are pretty reasonable - it's just pot luck combined with the parts pricing department's mood at the time I think..

As for Graham, yes - by all means voice an opinion, that's what this site is all about..  but the way you interject sometimes simply borders on plain rude.  What may be a casual and flippant remark you may make in person does actually look much worse in 'print'.  A throwaway remark doesn't get thrown away on a forum. It's there - and stays there, to be read over and over again by the offended party.

My two cents worth.  I'm not perfect myself, I know - before anyone says..

Lee

Thank you very much Lee! I've never expected a word from you and admire you're hidden background and neutral presence (I was pretty sure you were reading this thread). I hope Graham and I become "friends" again and as Peter said to me in a PM before that the Dutch are quite straight in saying things it's not always my intention to be straight. Many times I have to use Google translation to use the right words cause sometimes words can be misunderstood in different cultures.

Thanks, Leslie

9 LEE:

if you can produce glass Ouverture doors to the same size, shape and standard as B&O

Will send you a sample as soon as Soren (from Mexico) has the solution how to make them (he's the metal specialist)

Leslie:

Will send you a sample as soon as Soren (from Mexico) has the solution how to make them (he's the metal specialist)

Busy with work for a living, but will be back soon

Søren Mexico:

Leslie:

Will send you a sample as soon as Soren (from Mexico) has the solution how to make them (he's the metal specialist)

Busy with work for a living, but will be back soon

I'm pretty much in Martins camp here - Leslie has done some excellently executed & time consuming projects, some of which I like & some which I don't (only my personal taste) but I would NEVER denegrate him for his efforts nor his enthusiasm.

1. How many Beoworlders have bemoaned the the fact that glass panels are no longer available for the 3500/4500 series?

2. And how many Beoworld members have actually got off their 4rses & done anything about it?

Well the answer to those questions is :-

1. plenty &

2. one.

It's fine & dandy wanting to be a purist but lets get real here, when parts become unobtainable where are the alternatives? Watch ebay for donor units? We all know where that path leads, spemding more on postage for a whole unit than the part is worth - where is the sense in that? 

Oh - and on the subject wanting "preserve originality" - it was the original design of the glass panels & method of securing these that has lead to so many falling out & breaking (this also applies to the Beocenter 9***'s) so please don't any one tell me that improving designs like this are in any way detrimental to the original design.

Chris.

Wow Chris, these are kind words and it makes me proud of what I'm doing. I've read and learned a lot from other members so at least I could try to do something back in return. Just consider it as a sort of appreciation.

Ps. I think I'm gonna start a new thread with these glass panels.

@moderator, can this thread be removed so that all the negative parts can not be read anymore?

Enough Roses, back to work.

The bad news, I can make these funny little brackets, but each one will take me about 1 hour, if we are talking business and I charge my normal price for workshop works, then it wil come to USD 400.00 for one set (4 pcs).

Another problem that may turn up, is the black strip, painted or etched, on the glass where the bracket is glued on, it very thin but I can feel the edge, but its not a double side tape, its something to get a better hold for the glue and make the front view better

The bracket is 61 Mm long and 9 Mm wide, the taps are about 5 Mm high, it made of a good quality hard steel, and blackened.

This form, specially the taps, can only be made by punching and cutting in a punching machine, for this there will be needed 2 form tools one upper and one lower, and the work is done in one workcycle, whereafter edges and coners are grinded and polished and at last blackened

The text and barcode strips are glue on plastic.

So the best is to bring a sample to a bigger machinist shop and get a price for the punching tools and the finished brackets

If exact measurements is needed I can post them, but only if you dont have a sample bracket.

Søren Mexico:

The bad news, I can make these funny little brackets, but each one will take me about 1 hour, if we are talking business and I charge my normal price for workshop works, then it wil come to USD 400.00 for one set (4 pcs).

This is pretty much what I was trying to say a number of posts and a few tears ago.

The glass panels themselves are trivial: anybody can walk into a glass shop and consign N pieces of X by Y mm glass of Z mm thickness and they'll probably cost at most 10 euros a piece, depending on how well you want them to finish the edges.

But these silly brackets and their attachment are what will make the difference whether the doors will ever work properly and look good.

The D.I.Y ethos and international goodwill - which I fully support and applaud! - will be good for a pair for two, but unless you have them made in an industrial way, the amount of work needed is linear. Once the joy of discovery and new achievement is over, I don't think anybody will want to spend more than a day or two of his life helping random people save 50 euros of their money. (But if yes, I'll be in line if I ever need a pair!)

You could probably send a sample to some manufacturing agent in China and have 100,000 pcs made quite inexpensively (...and risk annoying B&O the company). Even freight is very cheap again due to the recession, plenty of sea containers are sitting on the wrong side of the world - just got a quote for $1 (One. US. Dollar.) for a largish shipment from Guangzhou to Helsinki

All this becomes completely different when the original parts are no longer available, and the choices are to fix it with what ever means you have, or part out / throw away the complete device

EDIT: having said all that, do the brackets need to be like that? Perhaps think them over - I'd love to help but I've never seen these in action

You'll be surprised what I can do making these brackets.

Indeed Mika, does it need to have this shape (brackets). Anyway, working on it!

Pictures next week!

Leslie:

@moderator, can this thread be removed so that all the negative parts can not be read anymore?

The whole thread can be deleted but not just selective (negative) parts - that would be wrong as everyone has the right to an opinion whether we agree with it or not.

Your suggestion of starting another thread on this is probably the best way forward.

Chris.

tournedos:

Søren Mexico:

The bad news, I can make these funny little brackets, but each one will take me about 1 hour, if we are talking business and I charge my normal price for workshop works, then it wil come to USD 400.00 for one set (4 pcs).

This is pretty much what I was trying to say a number of posts and a few tears ago.

The glass panels themselves are trivial: anybody can walk into a glass shop and consign N pieces of X by Y mm glass of Z mm thickness and they'll probably cost at most 10 euros a piece, depending on how well you want them to finish the edges.

But these silly brackets and their attachment are what will make the difference whether the doors will ever work properly and look good.

The D.I.Y ethos and international goodwill - which I fully support and applaud! - will be good for a pair for two, but unless you have them made in an industrial way, the amount of work needed is linear. Once the joy of discovery and new achievement is over, I don't think anybody will want to spend more than a day or two of his life helping random people save 50 euros of their money. (But if yes, I'll be in line if I ever need a pair!)

You could probably send a sample to some manufacturing agent in China and have 100,000 pcs made quite inexpensively (...and risk annoying B&O the company). Even freight is very cheap again due to the recession, plenty of sea containers are sitting on the wrong side of the world - just got a quote for $1 (One. US. Dollar.) for a largish shipment from Guangzhou to Helsinki

All this becomes completely different when the original parts are no longer available, and the choices are to fix it with what ever means you have, or part out / throw away the complete device

EDIT: having said all that, do the brackets need to be like that? Perhaps think them over - I'd love to help but I've never seen these in action

Okay, I hope that everybody understands that the parts I make are NOT for production, just to show you guys that in some cases you can make these parts yourself in a easy way. Just ordered 6 glass panels, so I have to make 12 brackets. So what if I have to spend 12 hours making these brackets. Never mentioned any qty's of hundreds and/or thousands!

It's just the pleasure and satisfaction I have working with metal, glass, cloths, wood and plastic.

For Lee I would make an exception if I can find an easy/fast way to make these clips *80) for 20 pairs of glass panels(with the same or even better quality. Thats' a challenge