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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 09-04-2011 2:17 PM by BillC. 238 replies.
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  • 08-19-2011 12:03 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    moxxey:

    Can't post a reply, always ends up in moderation!

     

    I have no idea why! I have approved one and deleted the other two as they seem the same attempt to post - apologies for that - I really cannot see why the computer didn't like it!

  • 08-19-2011 12:05 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    You can do all that on a bno tv now with an apple tv / mac mini attached.

    I had a loewe and sent it back in 24 hours - it was rubbish - not in the same league as sony let alone b&o. The picture processing was a joke , the interface unfathomable and the remote awful.

    The build quality of the set was awful - what I thought was metal on the rear was plastic with a silver coating . naff to say the least.

    At least b&o know how to build things properly.

  • 08-19-2011 12:11 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Outsourcing in China is very difficult if you have a technical Know-How that you want to keep.

    Apple made software and buy the hardware from other manufacturer. B1O made the hardware using some pretty nice technical skills. Outsourcing them in China is the first step to loose these skills. It is a problem that does not have Apple.

    That is why I was thinking you were trolling. The problem is not that China can't make good product, it is that will be a dangerous move for B&O.

    Sergio

  • 08-19-2011 12:15 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Flappo:

    You can do all that on a bno tv now with an apple tv / mac mini attached.

    I had a loewe and sent it back in 24 hours - it was rubbish - not in the same league as sony let alone b&o. The picture processing was a joke , the interface unfathomable and the remote awful.

    The build quality of the set was awful - what I thought was metal on the rear was plastic with a silver coating . naff to say the least.

    At least b&o know how to build things properly.

     

    Which one did you own? I am surprised of your feedback. Yes I can do the same with other hardware equipement, but here everything was included and just one remote control to operate everything and nothing to configure.

    Before I was using a PC media center that was really working well, but I won't use anymore more than 1 remote control. My limit is low ;)

    Well, I must admit that I also use a Dune HD B1 which is the Rolls Royce of the media files decoder. Ugly, but it can read anything, and trust me, I throw very ugly stuff at it... ;)

  • 08-19-2011 1:12 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Flappo:

    Regarding saving b&o , why not train the sales force to follow Trip's legendary customer relations skills he so brilliantly displays on this board much to everyone's befuddled bemsuement ? 

    See! If you sort through all the nonsense you occasionally find a pearl of wisdom. 

    A free copy of "The English Method: Bending Them to Your Will" is in the mail to you good sir. 

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 08-19-2011 1:18 PM In reply to

    • Roger
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    Re: B&O News

    Excellent reading! 

    The BS9k and 3200 were discontinued a long time ago, so hardly any major news - at least not for BeoWorld. B&O saw, a long time ago, that they have missed a generation of customers. Their Apple approach is one attempt to get these into the B&O magic, and probably a smart move. 

    I do not like they Apple approach to a lot of issues - but they have been successfull at it. So I went with the flow, and replaced all our gear (Windows PCs, BeoSound 2, Serenata etc) with Apple products. I find the way the iMac communicates with my BeoMaster 5 to be smoother than the PC-version (ie it works every time, no fuzz). But I still have all my B&O AV gear, and here is what I do not like today:

    I buy my music on iTunes, and when my BeoSound 5 plays any of these tracks over my BeoLab 5 I can for sure hear the difference from a CD ripped in WMA. I can not buy music in lossless format from iTunes. Why?

    Also, in my new Audi I got one of the best sounding audio systems around. I carry my music on my iPhone, and it can stream stereo sound to the sound system in the car via bluetooth or I can dock. When I play music via the iPod function on the iPhone I get okay sound, but when I launch Spotify (which streams 320 kbps mp3) the improvement is addictive. So I have stopped using the iPod function. 

    Yesterday, I was about to buy a new release on iTunes - stopped, thought about it twice and will go downtown and buy a silver disc. 

    My point: if B&O will remain true to sound/accoustics how can this blend with Apple? At the BeoSound 8 market segment this does perhaps not matter, but the albums downloaded from iTunes do not sound good enough in my living room or in my car. 

    Roger

     

  • 08-19-2011 1:22 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Hmmm not too sure if China is the place to sell B&O! I play basketball with a lot of Chinese students and they tell me that the average salary is less than £200 a month and that the majority live pretty harsh lives compared to the West.

  • 08-19-2011 1:26 PM In reply to

    • symmes
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    Re: B&O News

    @Paul Winn

    China's a pretty big place.  Wouldn't you consider that quite an inference leap?

  • 08-19-2011 1:36 PM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
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    • South West, UK
    • Posts 2,360
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    Re: B&O News

    Roger:

    My point: if B&O will remain true to sound/accoustics how can this blend with Apple? At the BeoSound 8 market segment...

    Going forward, production is now aimed at the iPod generation and compresion is rather obvious. Most modern music is created in a way that sounds far better through headphones. That's the production on the final CD.

    It's going to be very interesting to see how B&O work with this audio in the future. The younger generation listen to their music in a more casual manner and they aren't necessarily seeking top quality speakers to listen to their music.

    One of my favourite bands has a new album coming out later this year. They've teamed up with Rob Orton, the mixer behing Lady Gaga and others. The result? The sound is very focussed in the middle, melodyne used to alter the vocals and the tracks sound far better on my A8s than they do on my BL3s :( And this is an old-school band that's produced albums for decades.

    Sadly I think our generation upwards will be a dying market place in the future.

  • 08-19-2011 2:13 PM In reply to

    • Chris
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    Re: B&O News

    There will always be a market for top end music equipment, its just that that market is different now. If you look at photography and its revolution within the digital market, companies like Leica have never looked back, or taken so many pictures. Their co-operation with Panasonic have potentially given them a whole new generation of consumers, that when more affluent will at least be aware of the Leica brand.

    The youth just 10 years ago spent £50 or so on a CD Walkman with little choice of headphones. Now they will spend £500 on an Iphone/Cowon and half that again on ear buds. The interest amongst the young has never been so great for music and the relevant gear to listen to it with. B&O just needs to be i a position to catch some of the more, lets say savvy members of that group and the future is bright.

    A Beovision 10-40 in black and red fret on order, Beo4, Beo6, many A8's, a pair of white and yellow Form 2's, Beocom 4, 28 inch Avant RF DVD, Apple TV and a wife that loves this stuff as much as i do! 

  • 08-19-2011 2:23 PM In reply to

    • moxxey
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    • South West, UK
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    Re: B&O News

    Chris:

    If you look at photography and its revolution within the digital market, companies like Leica have never looked back, or taken so many pictures

    Big difference here though is that your choice of photos - whatever the camera - isn't affected by the industry. ie. people who want to take top quality images will only be affected if Leica and others stop producing the cameras. With B&O, the problem they have is that demand is moving forward in a manner that isn't compatible with audophiles as the source material is being restricted.

    Same with video downloads. One of the arguments on here has been that it's easier to download your movies rather than buy an expensive Blu-ray. Yes, it is easier. Video quality is still very good on a 720p download. Problem is, the sound is usually Dolby 5.1. You don't get uncompressed PCM or DTS-HD on a download. Thus the audio is affected.

    But this is the way the market is going. Audio downloads, video downloads. Good video, only reasonable audio.

  • 08-19-2011 2:55 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    symmes:

    @Paul Winn

    China's a pretty big place.  Wouldn't you consider that quite an inference leap?

    Ha! Clearly you don't know gentleman philosipher Paul Winn.

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 08-19-2011 4:20 PM In reply to

    • Chris
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    Re: B&O News

    Moxxey..I didn't realise the sound was of a lesser quality, although i was made aware of the 720p quality. Two nights ago i "rented" Battlefield Los Angeles and apart from actually enjoying it, the sound through my system was the best i have ever heard. I was tempted to start a thread asking what movies really get their system going and ironically was going to site thsi movie as an example. 

    I beleive what you say about it being a so called lesser quality, but the brutal thruth is it was the best i have yet to hearUnsure

    I was thinking about getting the Blu Ray 7-40 upgrade, but after a week of A**le TV, i will never ever buy a DVD or CD ever again, ever. Things are moving so rapidly in this market, i wish B&O would just stick to making products that play a medium, as opposed to reinventing the wheel(Beonet). The Beosound 5 i beleive is an example of this, an exmaple that will rapidly not only date, but be out of date shortly.

    Imagine a B&O quality phone, that uses the Apple operating system for Apps/Music library, and be an MP3 player of the quality of a Cowon! Concert hall quality musical car horns!

    Sorry the Rioja is kicking in[:'(]

    A Beovision 10-40 in black and red fret on order, Beo4, Beo6, many A8's, a pair of white and yellow Form 2's, Beocom 4, 28 inch Avant RF DVD, Apple TV and a wife that loves this stuff as much as i do! 

  • 08-19-2011 4:50 PM In reply to

    • moxxey
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    Re: B&O News

    Chris:

    I beleive what you say about it being a so called lesser quality, but the brutal thruth is it was the best i have yet to hearUnsure

    Uncompressed or HD audio from a Blu-ray is going to be the best you'll get (mind you, that's if your Blu-ray BV7-40 can decode the audio, but that's a different discussion in itself!). 

    The irony is that 90% of of users who watch a Blu-ray won't notice much of a difference between this and the audio from a standard definition DVD as they do not have the audio equipment to get the most from the source. That's why it's so important to B&O. To make that distinction. My argument is that it's all well and good trying to make this distinction, but if the market is changing around you (compressed audio downloads, movie downloads), then there's going to be little to play in future that takes advantage of this audio advantage.

  • 08-19-2011 5:03 PM In reply to

    • Chris
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    Re: B&O News

    I can't believe i spelt beleive like thatErm

    A Beovision 10-40 in black and red fret on order, Beo4, Beo6, many A8's, a pair of white and yellow Form 2's, Beocom 4, 28 inch Avant RF DVD, Apple TV and a wife that loves this stuff as much as i do! 

  • 08-19-2011 5:51 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    It's funny when I hear hifi and B&O mentioned together.  They used dam Philips parts in their Cd products hmmmm. If only they'd used quality Technics and more Panasonic parts they would have performed as well as they looked! 

    Interesting Chris re Apple Tv and yes I totally agree with the comments about B&O not reinventing the wheel as I feel they do not do that very well!

  • 08-20-2011 12:04 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Paul Winn:

    It's funny when I hear hifi and B&O mentioned together.  They used dam Philips parts in their Cd products hmmmm. If only they'd used quality Technics and more Panasonic parts they would have performed as well as they looked! 

    The Philips CD Pro2 is one of the best CD transports ever made. From a review of products from Esoteric:

    The lone CD-only transport I'm aware of that bridges the horrendous abyss above is the famed Philips CD-PRO2 to the right. It's employed by high-priced premium transports from Germany's Accustic Arts to Japan's Zanden Audio and costs a solid $450 as a raw part.

    The Avant, which used a Philips tube, was arguably the best television ever made.

    Electronics isn't everyone's area of expertise, but there are a lot of great resources on this site and others that can help you brush up on some basic knowledge. Please let me know if I can help in any way. 

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 08-20-2011 12:49 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Paul Winn:
    Hmmm not too sure if China is the place to sell B&O! I play basketball with a lot of Chinese students and they tell me that the average salary is less than £200 a month and that the majority live pretty harsh lives compared to the West.

    I purchased my BS5 a couple of years ago in a large city in vietnam. When in the shop, I asked the sales person how can they survive in the area with such a low national wage?

    The answer was simple "We get a lot of police officers, politicos and government officials".

    I had to pay for my BS5 in cash as they did not easily take credit cards. "we mainly take cash"

     

    Go figure!

     

    10%

  • 08-20-2011 1:29 AM In reply to

    • pf85
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    Re: B&O News

    TripEnglish:

    Paul Winn:

    It's funny when I hear hifi and B&O mentioned together.  They used dam Philips parts in their Cd products hmmmm. If only they'd used quality Technics and more Panasonic parts they would have performed as well as they looked!

    The Philips CD Pro2 is one of the best CD transports ever made. From a review of products from Esoteric:

    The lone CD-only transport I'm aware of that bridges the horrendous abyss above is the famed Philips CD-PRO2 to the right. It's employed by high-priced premium transports from Germany's Accustic Arts to Japan's Zanden Audio and costs a solid $450 as a raw part.

    The Avant, which used a Philips tube, was arguably the best television ever made.

    Electronics isn't everyone's area of expertise, but there are a lot of great resources on this site and others that can help you brush up on some basic knowledge. Please let me know if I can help in any way.

    Compliment to Trip English for facilitating to end certain myths which seem to exist forever !

  • 08-20-2011 3:05 AM In reply to

    • Kokomo
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    Re: B&O News

    Paul Winn:

    Hmmm not too sure if China is the place to sell B&O! I play basketball with a lot of Chinese students and they tell me that the average salary is less than £200 a month and that the majority live pretty harsh lives compared to the West.

    And yet exports of Rolls Royce cars to China are at record levels.

  • 08-20-2011 11:15 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Anyone having been in Chinese cities recently sees that there is a lot of money around. There are many (simply because there are so many persons in total) rich men who can afford biggest cars and nicest apartments and of course also B&O stuff. It is just a matter of convincing them this is the best they can get and gives them a specific status.

    BeoVision 8-40 / BeoVision 8-32 / Beovision 6-26 / BeoSound 3200 / BeoSound 1 / BeoLab 3 /  Beolab 6000 / Beolab 2000 / Beoport / Beomedia 1 / 3* Beo4 /BeoCom 5 with VOIP

  • 08-20-2011 12:09 PM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: B&O News

    TripEnglish:

    Puncher:

    I take it that you know the manufactured cost of the BS3 then, are you willing to share it with us?

    Of course I do. All dealers know it. But I don't need to share it. I don't believe that you're unsophisticated enough to think that anyone is pocketing untoward amounts of money on these products. We make a pretty standard margin up the chain. But margin isn't the issue. It's price-point and even if I sold it at zero dollars in profit it wouldn't be cheap enough to push substantially more units and no business would manufacture a product to barely break even. 

    Wow! - B&O are the only OEM I know that share material & labour costs of their products with high street retailers!

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 08-20-2011 3:19 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Puncher:
    Wow! - B&O are the only OEM I know that share material & labour costs of their products with high street retailers!

    You need to meet more OEMs. Maybe you can flutter your eyelashes and one will invite you to the OEM ball where you dazzle them all with your sparkling wit and they can whisper their material costs in your ear.

    Wink

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 08-20-2011 4:17 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Thank you for your pure arrogance there Mr Trip! It's just a shame then that the Philips parts for the CD player of my Century and DVD1 were pure pure rubbish! The slightest bit of bas or volume and the CD player skips and as for the DVD1, let's just say I bought that in good faith thinking I was getting one of the best players on the market!

    I really don't like arrogance and I can see why people are leaving this website. There is no wonder that B&O will never attract a young, exciting crowd.

  • 08-20-2011 4:27 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Paul Winn:

    Thank you for your pure arrogance there Mr Trip! It's just a shame then that the Philips parts for the CD player of my Century and DVD1 were pure pure rubbish! The slightest bit of bas or volume and the CD player skips and as for the DVD1, let's just say I bought that in good faith thinking I was getting one of the best players on the market!

    I really don't like arrogance and I can see why people are leaving this website. There is no wonder that B&O will never attract a young, exciting crowd.

    Paul,

    I think the point of Trip was to show that using Philips part for example, could be the best choice in term of quality. You may have experience problems with some B&O products, but that does not mean all of them are rubbish. What you encounter is also true using other brands.

    Sometime it is easier to rebrand a product in order to be ready to sell. It is a shame, but it happened. That why it is important to have a good strategy in order to not disapoint customer.

    sergio

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