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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 09-04-2011 2:17 PM by BillC. 238 replies.
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  • 08-18-2011 6:44 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    jonnyb:
    I believe the Encore plays AAC but not Apple Lossless

    That's right, Apple does not license Apple Lossless. While AAC is an open standard.

    Other brands that implement Apple Lossless, have hacked it.

    P.

  • 08-18-2011 6:51 AM In reply to

    • jonnyb
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    Re: B&O News

    I thought AAC also had to be licensed from Dolby Labs who are the main original inventor?

  • 08-18-2011 7:02 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    jonnyb:

    I thought AAC also had to be licensed from Dolby Labs who are the main original inventor?

    Not a problem at all if they openly license it!

    Dolby B and C both needed to be licensed (and HX Pro actually brought money from other manufacturers to B&O). VHS recorders usually carried a number of licenses from JVC and Faroudja. None of this stopped or even hindered mass production of cheap decks.

    -mika

  • 08-18-2011 7:15 AM In reply to

    • jonnyb
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    Re: B&O News

    tournedos:

    Not a problem at all if they openly license it!

    No indeed, but my point was that Phil seemed to be saying that B&O haven't licensed Apple Lossless because they'd need to pay for it whereas AAC was an 'open standard', ie i was questioning whether Phil thought that AAC was free. Since both aren't free I wonder why B&O have paid for AAC but not Apple Lossless.

    edit: On further investigation, it looks like Airplay allows the playing of an already decoded Lossless stream but Apple do not grant licences to decode Apple Lossless on their devices. So, B&O could create a product, let's say the Beosound 8 MkII, that would play Airplay but all it would be doing is playing the already decoded stream. It's the implementation of Airplay that's key to future B&O/Apple interoperability, rather than the granting of an Apple Lossless license.

     

  • 08-18-2011 7:33 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    jonnyb:
    No indeed, but my point was that Phil seemed to be saying that B&O haven't licensed Apple Lossless because they'd need to pay for it whereas AAC was an 'open standard', ie i was questioning whether Phil thought that AAC was free. Since both aren't free I wonder why B&O have paid for AAC but not Apple Lossless.

    Because, as Philippe said, Apple doesn't license Apple Lossless. A trade needs both a buyer and a seller!

    I hate it how every other thread on BW nowadays degenerates into this Sad

    -mika

  • 08-18-2011 7:41 AM In reply to

    • jonnyb
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    Re: B&O News

    Which is what I already wrote above.

    Not sure why you're getting so upset. How does this constitute a 'degneration' of the discussion?

  • 08-18-2011 7:45 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    jonnyb:
    Which is what I already wrote above.

    No it's not. You were wondering why B&O hasn't paid to have Apple Lossless. There reason is that it is not for sale.

    EDIT: Your edit above seems to be a more accurate interpretation, all good now Smile

    -mika

  • 08-18-2011 7:47 AM In reply to

    • jonnyb
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    Re: B&O News

    tournedos:

    No it's not.

    Yes it is. Here's what I wrote:

    "but Apple do not grant licences to decode Apple Lossless on their devices"

    I wrote what I wrote in the edit at the same time as the bit you originally quoted so I'm not sure why you saw one and not the other. Love and kisses Wink

     

     

  • 08-18-2011 8:05 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    jonnyb:
    Not sure why you're getting so upset. How does this constitute a 'degneration' of the discussion?

    Because this whole Apple Lossless has been discussed countless times before. With some people blaming B&O for not buying it, and other blaming Apple for not selling it, and some saying B&O should buy it, People blaming Apple for being a closed system, etc... It always end up changing the original subject of the thread to a "B&O should license Apple Lossless" thread.

    My last words on the subject: Yes, it would be good if Apple could license Apple Lossless. Yes it would be good if B&O could support it in their digital solutions, as it is one more feature and doesn't prevent anyone from using other codecs if they wish. Yes B&O should license AirPlay, for the same reasons; it will add capabilities, but will not prevent usage of U-PnP or DLNA servers (Which are technologies that belong to Microsoft and Sony). The more the better. The good thing about this is that both Apple-Lossless and Airplay could be added by simple software update. In the meantime, workaround solutions are: Convert you Apple Lossless to AIFF or another Lossless format. Apple lossless files are DRM free (Closed system??). For Airplay, buy an Airport express and plug it at the back of the BM5, BS5 encore or BS8. Add a good DAC for enhanced quality.

    P.

  • 08-18-2011 8:28 AM In reply to

    • jonnyb
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    Re: B&O News

    Well, as you may have seen in other threads - it's about five years since I posted here, having been a founding member back in 18-whatever-it-was. Looks like it will be another five years before I post again. Jeeez...

    Thanks for welcoming me back into the fold Beoworld. It's really been a pleasure!

  • 08-18-2011 8:45 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    jonnyb:

    Well, as you may have seen in other threads - it's about five years since I posted here, having been a founding member back in 18-whatever-it-was. Looks like it will be another five years before I post again. Jeeez...

    Thanks for welcoming me back into the fold Beoworld. It's really been a pleasure!

    I wasn't having a go at you Jonny, I was trying to summarise what happend many time on this forum recently, as you were asking why people would be upset by the Apple question.

  • 08-18-2011 8:51 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Don't be upset Jonnyb ;)

    I think Apple & B&O products work very well together.  They are both well designed, perform well and appeal to similar customer!

    I certainly agree an earlier comment about getting the under 25s! It was certainly the time when I had a lot of disposable income - before apartments, cars and travel etc! It's a very very important market

  • 08-18-2011 9:21 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Don't go anywhere jonnyb, blame me for not reading that post of yours properly to the end on the first time!

    But Philippe summarized exactly why it went that way - the number of threads that have converged on the same thing count probably in the dozens by now...

    -mika

  • 08-18-2011 9:38 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Maybe the reason why there are sooo many threads on that subject is because it is a BIGGGGGGGG matter of importance for a lot of music audio fanatics! iTunes is the World's most popular system so imagine how many people do rip in apple lossless!!! I guess it's like a company bring out a CD player that only play rectangular CDs  dohh!

    It's obviously in a lot of people's hearts!   I myself use iTunes for everything and I find it 100% reliable on my MacBook, iPhone & iPod so why would I want to change?

  • 08-18-2011 9:54 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Welcome back jonnyb!  Please do continue posting and asking questions.  Phillipe's answer is absolutley correct.  In fact, B&O has an enterprise license from Microsoft to use a version of Windows XP in the Beosound 5.  B&O's support of AAC, MP3, WMA, and WAV are from the Microsoft license.  B&O is able to support FLAC because it is open source.  FLAC was recently added in a software update of Beosound 5.  If you purchase music from the iTunes store, it will play on the Beosound 5 and Encore.  Beosound 8 can play everything in iTunes including Apple Lossless because it is a dock for an Apple device with a 30 pin connector such as more recent iPods, all iPhones, and all iPads. B&O paid a license fee for this.  If Airplay is added to an updated Beosound 8, B&O will have to license that also.

    We have had some lively discussions recently but I think everyone hopes Bang and Olufsen will do well regardless of direction.  Who knows?  Maybe B&O will offer support for Android devices also.

     

    Beosound 5 BL9 BC2 BL8000 Beovision 7 BL6002  BL11 

     

  • 08-18-2011 10:05 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Tue did chat to BeoWorld about the new products when we were there. Clearly we cannot discuss this further as we signed confidentiality agreements but the premise is certainly interesting. I think B&O do understand that there does need to be entry level products to attract people to the brand and I think it is these that are being considered for the products available in Apple stores etc.

    I don't think that BeoWorld members with large collections are really the target audience - these are designed more for first time buyers as an introduction to the style and quality of the product. Clearly you cannot expect a 50" LCD TV for entry level prices and you would not expect the same range of technical specs as the top price models. None the less, I think it is a very promising time with lots of interesting products and ideas.

    I would expect the sheep to become more active as the hot summer ends.....

  • 08-18-2011 10:40 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    linder:

    In fact, B&O has an enterprise license from Microsoft to use a version of Windows XP in the Beosound 5.  B&O's support of AAC, MP3, WMA, and WAV are from the Microsoft license.  

    To be exact, it is Windows XP Embedded which is a strippable version of Windows XP. When using this specific OS, we can build a version of Windows XPe with only what we need. I used it a lot in order to make a NAS with a very small memory footprint (under 30Mo in RAM). It was very reliable and I was surprise (and pleased) when I found it in Beosound 5. It definitively show that B&O did their homework and have some skills inside in order to use this kind os solution.

    Regarding the support of the other format, only WMA are from Microsoft, the rest is not.

    In another post I read that UpNP and DNLA are mainly from Microsoft and Sony. That is not exactly right as DNLA is a non profit orgnaisation, thus established by Sony, but that includes more than 250 company... It is now the standard if you want to share media accross multiple devices. That was a reason I jump into Loewe for my TV instead of B&O, because they have an optionnal media center supporting this technology. It is perfect for allowing me to access my music/pictures from my TV.

    Sergio

     

  • 08-18-2011 10:58 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Flappo:

    Apple are trendy / Hype ? 

    They've been going over 30 yers - in fact Apple started the whole Pc business in April 1976. They've been leading the market ever since - everyone copies them - even bno ! ( check out the portable stereo bno made that apes the mac pro case )

    Humm... As millions of people I thought that IBM sold the first PC in 1981... And I did not remember that Apple was leading the market during the last 30 years... ;) They recently did appealing product but take it 10 years ago and buying was simply a joke...

    It is really difficult to discuss with Apple fanboys. Really.

    Flappo:

    Sergio your posts come over as lame trolling. 

    The bno / Apple marriage is one made in hi-tech heaven , a definite win / win secnario , the exposure is priceless - how much would bno have to pay to get that much free advertising ?? Being twinned with the biggest and most influential company on the planet !

    As for what Apple can provide - apart from massive exposure - software - something bno desperately need to catch up on. Apple could help them leapfrog their opposition by allowing them access to Lion. 

    Personally I can't wait to see what this grand meeting of minds comes up with !

    I agree on this, I wanted to throw in stone in the lake (sorry, french expression).  If my post come over as trolling, yours too. definitively.

    My point is always the same : The future of B&O should not depend on other brand, and more, should not be completely tied to specific devices. The BS8 was a great seller, and that was a smart move to make this kind of product, ad the BL4PC. It is important to have some entry level products that can be used without other B&O products (the post from Peter is very interesting regarding this). But should B&O be tied with Apple? I do not see why, in term of company strategy, technology or anything else.

    Sergio not trolling 

  • 08-18-2011 10:59 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Sergio,

    Your information is absolutely correct.  However, a Microsoft Enterprise license for Windows XP embedded includes Windows Media player which plays AAC, MP3, WMA, WAV, and others.  I first worked with this software about 10 years ago and negotiated the agreement for my empoyer with Microsoft. An enterprise license is very common in the IT industry.  It allows a company to distribute many licenses up to an agreed limit without registering individual licenses.

    Peter,

    Thanks for the reassurance.  Where are those sheep?

    Beosound 5 BL9 BC2 BL8000 Beovision 7 BL6002  BL11 

     

  • 08-18-2011 11:12 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    sergi0:
    Humm... As millions of people I thought that IBM sold the first PC in 1981.

    Wikipedia: Introduced at the West Coast Computer Faire in 1977, the Apple II was among the first successful personal computers.

     

  • 08-18-2011 11:42 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    vlohjr1:
    Trip

    Interesting thought would you want to see customers buying third party screens which can be updated and integrated by bs3 so that it serves as the av processor?

    Vince

    It's not an issue of what I want, but it reflects the reality of the marketplace. People often buy the TV first and then try and fill in a more comprehensive system around it. By being able to bring them into the brand and the BeoLink ecosystem without making their brand new purchase redundant I can at least give them B&O's level of functionality, integration, and sound quality with the addition of some BeoLab speakers. Then when they're ready to upgrade they can look at one of our pure television concepts because they'll be hooked on those other aspects and see the value more fundamentally. 

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 08-18-2011 11:46 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Evan:
    Yes, Vince has a point. I feel like most people would be buying an external a/v processor for its competencies rather than integration.

    They're really one in the same. People want to consolidate the video experience and these days they want to integrate their house to varying extents. Having a competitively priced AV processor that leaves out the concept of multiple screens & video processing would mean that we can build out the ecosystem further and have oppurtunities for BeoLabs and control integration in rooms that we may not have access to with the current portfolio. 

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 08-18-2011 11:49 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    PhilLondon:

    sergi0:
    Humm... As millions of people I thought that IBM sold the first PC in 1981.

    Wikipedia: Introduced at the West Coast Computer Faire in 1977, the Apple II was among the first successful personal computers.

     

    just give a look a this link : http://www.blinkenlights.com/pc.shtml

    The debate is endless ;)

  • 08-18-2011 11:52 AM In reply to

    • henrik
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    Re: B&O News

    sergi0:
    Humm... As millions of people I thought that IBM sold the first PC in 1981.
    They sold the first PC that adhered to the IBM Personal Computer platform, yes, but it was definitely not the first Personal Computer. Neither was the Apple Computer, btw.
  • 08-18-2011 12:02 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O News

    Let us not turn this into an Apple thread! This is a new product and B&O thread! I think we really have done the PC vs Mac argument to death and also the integration of Apple and B&O. The interesting thing might be that the top brass at Apple are huge B&O fans.

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